Selling Digital Downloads

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Comments

  • savannahgasavannahga Registered Users Posts: 225 Major grins
    edited March 29, 2006
    Looks like this may be a dead issue, this thread was started over a year ago & still no DD capability!? headscratch.gif
  • BodleyBodley Registered Users Posts: 766 Major grins
    edited March 29, 2006
    savannahga wrote:
    Looks like this may be a dead issue, this thread was started over a year ago & still no DD capability!? headscratch.gif

    Don't think it's a dead issue - it's coming - my guess is probably later than sooner.

    Also don't think the official Smugmuggers (the ones on the inside) are going to post if or when it's expected.

    Andy quote from another post: "A search on Dgrin would show that we've talked about these features many times. Yes, we know that you want these features. Yes, we'd like to have them. Digital downloads, custom watermarks, packages are all on our radar. We never say when a new feature will be available."
    Greg
    "Tis better keep your mouth shut and be thought of as an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited March 29, 2006
    savannahga wrote:
    Looks like this may be a dead issue, this thread was started over a year ago & still no DD capability!? headscratch.gif

    Thanks for letting us know how important this is to you - and it is to us, too!
  • bhambham Registered Users Posts: 1,303 Major grins
    edited March 29, 2006
    jagra wrote:
    A DD feature would be extremely valuable to my Business. My gf is a Graphic Designer and wants me to offer my images to her company through DD to make the transactions more seamless and instant.

    I have a couple questions... Would you (smugmug) run into liability problems if an image was dl'ed and used in an ad that didn't have a release? And I know the copyright laws are very different in Canada, let alone all the other countries that might use this service. With an extremely confused take on Photography Copyright law, are there any glaring problems that might prevent you from offering this service?

    I am a new signee and so far I really like smugmug. I was running gallery2 on my website before and really appreciate the hands off approach you offer, allowing me to concentrate on photography. I am still in the grace period and think I might explore different options if this won't be implemented soon.

    Too bad because I really like the attitude and community behind everything here.

    A couple of dgrinners here had come up with certain ways to sell digital downloads using smugmug as the host. If I remember correctly they basically had a public gallery that had all the images that were for sale. These images had right click protection on them, and I think watermark as well. Then the customer would pay the site owner via paypal for the image or images. Then the owner could upload the image (or copy) to another private password protected gallery that didn't have protection or watermark and give the purchaser a direct link to it. Sound like a lot, but requires some work on your part, but definitely a doable work around. If you wanted additional protection that only the user purchasing the image could use it you may want to add something in the exif data of the image before you upload putting in your copyright and then you have licensed the image to _____ for ______ purpose. That way if it ends up somewhere else and they used the file the exif should still retain that info.

    If you are dealing with mainly one client then this would be a very easy thing (at least to me it seems easy enough).
    "A photo is like a hamburger. You can get one from McDonalds for $1, one from Chili's for $5, or one from Ruth's Chris for $15. You usually get what you pay for, but don't expect a Ruth's Chris burger at a McDonalds price, if you want that, go cook it yourself." - me
  • DodgeV83DodgeV83 Registered Users Posts: 379 Major grins
    edited March 29, 2006
    bham wrote:
    A couple of dgrinners here had come up with certain ways to sell digital downloads using smugmug as the host. If I remember correctly they basically had a public gallery that had all the images that were for sale. These images had right click protection on them, and I think watermark as well. Then the customer would pay the site owner via paypal for the image or images. Then the owner could upload the image (or copy) to another private password protected gallery that didn't have protection or watermark and give the purchaser a direct link to it. Sound like a lot, but requires some work on your part, but definitely a doable work around. If you wanted additional protection that only the user purchasing the image could use it you may want to add something in the exif data of the image before you upload putting in your copyright and then you have licensed the image to _____ for ______ purpose. That way if it ends up somewhere else and they used the file the exif should still retain that info.

    If you are dealing with mainly one client then this would be a very easy thing (at least to me it seems easy enough).

    Sounds easier to just E-mail the file.
  • BBonesBBones Registered Users Posts: 580 Major grins
    edited March 29, 2006
    In my case, I have simply "unlocked" the gallery. There have been extremely rare instances where the buyer shared out the link and I noticed the hit counter go through the roof, but that was just a matter of locking it back up again. In the instance where I am wary of a user I give them a 24 hour window OR I mark the gallery and temporarily "Not Public" and then unlock it.
  • DodgeV83DodgeV83 Registered Users Posts: 379 Major grins
    edited March 29, 2006
    BBones wrote:
    In my case, I have simply "unlocked" the gallery. There have been extremely rare instances where the buyer shared out the link and I noticed the hit counter go through the roof, but that was just a matter of locking it back up again. In the instance where I am wary of a user I give them a 24 hour window OR I mark the gallery and temporarily "Not Public" and then unlock it.

    Unlocking the gallery for even 5 minutes = 1 user downloading the originals for every picture in the gallery and giving them out for free. I wouldn't take the risk.
  • bhambham Registered Users Posts: 1,303 Major grins
    edited March 29, 2006
    DodgeV83 wrote:
    Unlocking the gallery for even 5 minutes = 1 user downloading the originals for every picture in the gallery and giving them out for free. I wouldn't take the risk.

    Well if the gallery is private and you need a direct link then only those you send the link to could even see the gallery. Thus only someone who paid you got the link. Not likely they will then give it away.
    "A photo is like a hamburger. You can get one from McDonalds for $1, one from Chili's for $5, or one from Ruth's Chris for $15. You usually get what you pay for, but don't expect a Ruth's Chris burger at a McDonalds price, if you want that, go cook it yourself." - me
  • DodgeV83DodgeV83 Registered Users Posts: 379 Major grins
    edited March 29, 2006
    bham wrote:
    Well if the gallery is private and you need a direct link then only those you send the link to could even see the gallery. Thus only someone who paid you got the link. Not likely they will then give it away.
    You say not likely, I say very likely.

    Lets say your on the team and you've got the link to a gallery with 100+ pictures. Why would you ever buy more than 1 picture? You know that once you have access you can download them all for free. If I knew that my friend bought a picture and had the link, why would I ask him for it? You can't expect people to do the "right thing"...these are the same people downloading 10,000 mp3's and full length movies for free! I've heard of people saying "No I don't want a print just send me the file......why are you charging for that? Its digital it should be free!"

    When they steal mp3s and movies they at least KNOW they are breaking the law...Many people equate digital pictures with "free". The first complaint I had about my site was "What? Why can't I right click and save the pictures?" rolleyes1.gif
  • bhambham Registered Users Posts: 1,303 Major grins
    edited March 29, 2006
    I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. I am talking more of from the original question on this thread where a work is created for a specific customer in mind. A image or design, not a picture of multiple people. But in your case I wouldn't sell a digital download with more than 2 people in it for the same price because of that.

    Also in your case DodgeV83, you are assuming the gallery with no protection had all the images in it. I am talking one purchase, one gallery, one image.

    But I do see you have valid points that my solution doesn't work for all cases. I wasn't proposing it to work for all cases just to the specific case (for jarga) and from how I understood his situation.

    If you state your situation clearly then maybe some people could help. But yes if you share the file at any time, then people can share via many means. Even selling a print then someone could scan it and share it for free. Due to this fact you may see many photographers increase their upfront / sitting / shooting fees because of the loss of potential sales from the images on the back end.
    "A photo is like a hamburger. You can get one from McDonalds for $1, one from Chili's for $5, or one from Ruth's Chris for $15. You usually get what you pay for, but don't expect a Ruth's Chris burger at a McDonalds price, if you want that, go cook it yourself." - me
  • presscamerapresscamera Registered Users Posts: 15 Big grins
    edited April 25, 2006
    Selling Digital Downloads
    Hello I am a Smugmug member from Australia I am looking for an option to be able to be able to sell Digital Downloads of images.
    Can anyone Suggest anything??

    Kerry Berrington

    I have been absent from this forum for some time. I notice that my original suggestion from Downunder in Australia one and a half years ago has generated a lot of interest but still no action. Maybe by the time that I am in the retirement home and drawing my pension you guys might get your act together. C,mon you guys put a man on the moon!!! this should be a walk in the park.

    Kerry Berrington Perth Australia
    Regards Kerris Berrington Press Photographer
    Perth Western Australia
    http://www.presscamera.com
    presscamera@gmail.com
  • spider-tspider-t Registered Users Posts: 443 Major grins
    edited April 25, 2006
    Printroom.com offers digital download
    Hi Smugmug,

    Here's a little more competitive research for you.

    I was offered a free year at printroom and have been trying them for some of my event sales. It's not as attractive or customizable as smugmug (at ALL), but the buying is easy, and they put my name on the back of the prints I sell.

    (Smugmug also has better service, faster printing, and more consistent colors.)

    Printroom offers digital downloads in their list of products and their take seems to be based on the size of your file and the price you are charging.

    Out of curiosity (and reading this thread) I went in to my Printroom.com pricing page and changed my prices to see what my take was:

    price - profit

    2.37 - 0 ("minimum price for a file this size")
    10. - 6.47
    50. - 40.01
    75. - 61.01
    100. - 82.01

    I'll leave the math to you digit heads. My files were 6 megpixel.

    cheers,
    Trish
  • cloudminecloudmine Registered Users Posts: 6 Beginner grinner
    edited April 25, 2006
    I am also very interested in the availability of digital downloads for purchase. Most of my inquiries have been regarding the use of my digital images, rather than the sale of individual prints.

    I just upgraded to a power account a couple of weeks ago (after having a standard account for over 2 years), but I would seriously consider upgrading to a pro account, if digital downloads were available.

    I know there are lots of things to consider when making this move, but I just wanted to put one more opinion out there on this subject.
  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited April 25, 2006
    cloudmine wrote:
    I am also very interested in the availability of digital downloads for purchase.
    In two months at Exposure Manager I have sold 5 CD-ROMs (which are self-fulfilled) of race photos. The site also offers individual files for purchase and download but only sold one that way. I've also sold two magazine cover prints (again, self fulfilled).

    When the option is in the shopping cart, the option sells. When its not in the shopping cart, when you make the customer do something different to purchase something (such as email me), it doesn't sell.
    Bill Jurasz - Mercury Photography - Cedar Park, TX
    A former sports shooter
    Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
    My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited April 25, 2006
    mercphoto wrote:
    In two months at Exposure Manager I have sold 5 CD-ROMs (which are self-fulfilled) of race photos. The site also offers individual files for purchase and download but only sold one that way. I've also sold two magazine cover prints (again, self fulfilled).

    When the option is in the shopping cart, the option sells. When its not in the shopping cart, when you make the customer do something different to purchase something (such as email me), it doesn't sell.

    Thanks presscamera, trish, cloud, Bill, and all the others who've recently commented...

    Man I want this so BAAAAAAAAAD! I have been doing everthing I can to keep this front-and-center with Onethumb and JT.

    I know you ALL ARE TIRED of hearing me say "hang in there.." but,

    "hang in there.." WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.
  • jagrajagra Registered Users Posts: 9 Beginner grinner
    edited April 26, 2006
    Andy wrote:
    Thanks presscamera, trish, cloud, Bill, and all the others who've recently commented...

    Man I want this so BAAAAAAAAAD! I have been doing everthing I can to keep this front-and-center with Onethumb and JT.

    I know you ALL ARE TIRED of hearing me say "hang in there.." but,

    "hang in there.." WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.



    I'll take that as a positive affirmation. Thanks Andy, I am very happy with the service I have received here to date.
  • LeDudeLeDude Registered Users Posts: 501 Major grins
    edited April 26, 2006
    I weigh 220 lbs. and I'm throwing all that weight behind the DD idea. :D

    The presence of others selling DD helps create a sense of value to the consumer public... digital is so often equated with 'free' or extremely cheap... DD for $ helps debunk this fallacy.

    And I love smugmug, but, Andy you shouldn't have to fight so hard to keep this at the fore of smugmug's efforts. This is the digital age folks, and if smugmug is going to be a leader it needs this kind of flexibility in sales methods. I'm finding it hard to make an argument why; it seems so obvious and essential.


    You see man made the cars
    To take us over the world
    Man made the train
    To carry the heavy load
    Man made the electro lights
    To take us out of the dark
    Man made the bullet for the war
    Like Noah made the ark
    This is a man's man's, man's world
    But it would be nothing
    Nothing! without a [smugmug for digital downloads]


    -Rich (with a little help from J.Brown)
    We are the music-makers; and we are the dreamers of dreams.
    ... come along.
  • BaldyBaldy Registered Users, Super Moderators Posts: 2,853 moderator
    edited April 27, 2006
    jagra wrote:
    I have a couple questions... Would you (smugmug) run into liability problems if an image was dl'ed and used in an ad that didn't have a release? And I know the copyright laws are very different in Canada, let alone all the other countries that might use this service. With an extremely confused take on Photography Copyright law, are there any glaring problems that might prevent you from offering this service?
    I don't think so. I think we'd make it clear that the customer is buying from the photographer who owns all the rights to the photo, and we are just the merchant who does fulfillment.

    In the case of Getty Images, you're buying from them and so they have to make sure they have model releases, etc., but in our case that burden falls on you.

    Having said that, I'm assuming y'all would like us to have the customer check a box that says they agree to certain usage conditions? Would it be like the one you see at iStockphoto?
  • JimMJimM Registered Users Posts: 1,389 Major grins
    edited April 27, 2006
    I am going to rile up some feathers here, but I am not sure DD is such a good thing. I started giving digital files to friends, of their kids and stuff..... the next time I would go to their house, my pictures would be displayed everywhere! Sounds good, right? Not really. They would print them at home on their "photo" printer. They looked really bad. I don't want my work printed poorly. I don't want their friends to come over and say, who took those, and they proudly say Jim. Anyone see where I am coming from?

    My official policy now, is if you want my images, you have to purchase them from SM. If you are a friend and I would have given you the digital file, I just don't mark them up on SM (except the penny so I can see if they ordered them).

    Thoughts?
    Cameras: >(2) Canon 20D .Canon 20D/grip >Canon S200 (p&s)
    Glass: >Sigma 17-35mm,f2.8-4 DG >Tamron 28-75mm,f2.8 >Canon 100mm 2.8 Macro >Canon 70-200mm,f2.8L IS >Canon 200mm,f2.8L
    Flash: >550EX >Sigma EF-500 DG Super >studio strobes

    Sites: Jim Mitte Photography - Livingston Sports Photos - Brighton Football Photos
  • bwgbwg Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,119 SmugMug Employee
    edited April 27, 2006
    JimM wrote:
    I am going to rile up some feathers here, but I am not sure DD is such a good thing. I started giving digital files to friends, of their kids and stuff..... the next time I would go to their house, my pictures would be displayed everywhere! Sounds good, right? Not really. They would print them at home on their "photo" printer. They looked really bad. I don't want my work printed poorly. I don't want their friends to come over and say, who took those, and they proudly say Jim. Anyone see where I am coming from?

    My official policy now, is if you want my images, you have to purchase them from SM. If you are a friend and I would have given you the digital file, I just don't mark them up on SM (except the penny so I can see if they ordered them).

    Thoughts?
    I'm sure if/when DD come to fruition, you will have the ability to enable/disable them for your photos. I wouldnt worry yourself too much.
    Pedal faster
  • JimMJimM Registered Users Posts: 1,389 Major grins
    edited April 27, 2006
    bigwebguy wrote:
    I'm sure if/when DD come to fruition, you will have the ability to enable/disable them for your photos. I wouldnt worry yourself too much.

    I assumed as much, so I am not worried. Just thought I would share that tidbit with the group. Have also sold CD's of my images, more for commercial shoots though.
    Cameras: >(2) Canon 20D .Canon 20D/grip >Canon S200 (p&s)
    Glass: >Sigma 17-35mm,f2.8-4 DG >Tamron 28-75mm,f2.8 >Canon 100mm 2.8 Macro >Canon 70-200mm,f2.8L IS >Canon 200mm,f2.8L
    Flash: >550EX >Sigma EF-500 DG Super >studio strobes

    Sites: Jim Mitte Photography - Livingston Sports Photos - Brighton Football Photos
  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited April 27, 2006
    JimM wrote:
    I am going to rile up some feathers here, but I am not sure DD is such a good thing. I started giving digital files to friends, of their kids and stuff..... the next time I would go to their house, my pictures would be displayed everywhere! Sounds good, right? Not really. They would print them at home on their "photo" printer. They looked really bad. I don't want my work printed poorly. I don't want their friends to come over and say, who took those, and they proudly say Jim. Anyone see where I am coming from?
    Yes. And selling digital files is not for everyone or every market. For me its been a plus -- I've sold 5 CD-ROMs of racing events the last two months. And when I was a racer myself several years ago I would only buy photos on CD, I would not buy prints. One thing I am considering doing is throwing in 1 correctly printed 4x6 print with the CD-ROM to show what the image SHOULD look like. Granted this is hard/expensive to do for people who download only one or two digital files rather than buy the entire CD.

    A local wedding photographer I know, if he sells a CD-ROM of the "negatives" he prices it high enough that he can also toss in a 4x6 of each print. A little value-add, a little extra profit, plus the customer gets an example of what the print is supposed to look like.

    Your point certainly is a valid concern.
    Bill Jurasz - Mercury Photography - Cedar Park, TX
    A former sports shooter
    Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
    My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
  • JimMJimM Registered Users Posts: 1,389 Major grins
    edited April 27, 2006
    mercphoto wrote:
    A local wedding photographer I know, if he sells a CD-ROM of the "negatives" he prices it high enough that he can also toss in a 4x6 of each print. A little value-add, a little extra profit, plus the customer gets an example of what the print is supposed to look like.

    This is an interesting approach. Good idea.
    Cameras: >(2) Canon 20D .Canon 20D/grip >Canon S200 (p&s)
    Glass: >Sigma 17-35mm,f2.8-4 DG >Tamron 28-75mm,f2.8 >Canon 100mm 2.8 Macro >Canon 70-200mm,f2.8L IS >Canon 200mm,f2.8L
    Flash: >550EX >Sigma EF-500 DG Super >studio strobes

    Sites: Jim Mitte Photography - Livingston Sports Photos - Brighton Football Photos
  • CindyCindy Registered Users Posts: 542 Major grins
    edited April 27, 2006
    Adding weight... both for DD and CD's.
    I don't weigh much but adding it on anyhow.
    Glad to see you also want this Andy... keep keeping it in front of them.
    Bill mentioned selling CD's and I think this is a fabulous idea.
    We can allready order backup DVD's... how about adding Digital file Sales to a CD or DVD??? Per image/event or gallery? I offered pre-pay digital download &/or digital files on CD sales to some recent customers. All choose to have me burn the images to CD verses selling them the ability to pre-pay and download. Of course those pre-paying wouldn't recieve instant gratification either way so I'm not sure how the 2 would rate side by side when available for instant sale.
    Cindy Colbert (Utterback) • Wishing You Co-Bear Love, Hugs & Laughter!!!
  • SamirDSamirD Registered Users Posts: 3,474 Major grins
    edited April 27, 2006
    JimM wrote:
    .....the next time I would go to their house, my pictures would be displayed everywhere! Sounds good, right? Not really.
    I've run across this problem as well, not necessarily for print sales, but in lost web site referrals. It is a concern to say the least, especially if you give them a high-res file.

    I think the only way to police this aspect would be to have a license agreement attached to each DD that specifies what it can be used for. Any other use would be breach of that contract.
    Pictures and Videos of the Huntsville Car Scene: www.huntsvillecarscene.com
    Want faster uploading? Vote for FTP!
  • BaldyBaldy Registered Users, Super Moderators Posts: 2,853 moderator
    edited April 27, 2006
    I have no idea how big the digital download market is but the fact that youz just won't let this thread die is pretty encouraging.

    I know it has become a frequent request/demand of brides to get all the wedding pics on CD. Doesn't sound like digital downloads will solve that problem. Sounds like we'd have to find a way to make backup CDs available to be priced by pros and sold to consumers to solve that one.
  • CameronCameron Registered Users Posts: 745 Major grins
    edited April 27, 2006
    Baldy wrote:
    I know it has become a frequent request/demand of brides to get all the wedding pics on CD. Doesn't sound like digital downloads will solve that problem. Sounds like we'd have to find a way to make backup CDs available to be priced by pros and sold to consumers to solve that one.

    That sounds like a great idea - making a CD/DVD available for a certain gallery at a user-defined price would be a great option!
  • JimMJimM Registered Users Posts: 1,389 Major grins
    edited April 27, 2006
    Baldy wrote:
    I know it has become a frequent request/demand of brides to get all the wedding pics on CD. Doesn't sound like digital downloads will solve that problem. Sounds like we'd have to find a way to make backup CDs available to be priced by pros and sold to consumers to solve that one.

    Okay, count me in on this one, as I have sold entire CD's before and am very willing to do it with event photos. Great suggestion Baldy!
    Cameras: >(2) Canon 20D .Canon 20D/grip >Canon S200 (p&s)
    Glass: >Sigma 17-35mm,f2.8-4 DG >Tamron 28-75mm,f2.8 >Canon 100mm 2.8 Macro >Canon 70-200mm,f2.8L IS >Canon 200mm,f2.8L
    Flash: >550EX >Sigma EF-500 DG Super >studio strobes

    Sites: Jim Mitte Photography - Livingston Sports Photos - Brighton Football Photos
  • peestandinguppeestandingup Registered Users Posts: 489 Major grins
    edited April 29, 2006
    Baldy wrote:
    I have no idea how big the digital download market is but the fact that youz just won't let this thread die is pretty encouraging.

    I know it has become a frequent request/demand of brides to get all the wedding pics on CD. Doesn't sound like digital downloads will solve that problem. Sounds like we'd have to find a way to make backup CDs available to be priced by pros and sold to consumers to solve that one.
    Great idea! I negotiated with my own wedding photographer that I must receive all of the copyright-free originals on CD/DVD for one flat fee before we even started. Allot of people just need a photographer there to shoot the stuff & then the customers wanna take care of everything else like prints & junk. I suppose you can always just mail them a disc the old fashioned way, but this is still cool & could be very useful.

    The make your own CD/DVD idea would be great for event photographers who shoot lots of stuff.
  • BodleyBodley Registered Users Posts: 766 Major grins
    edited May 4, 2006
    Lets not short change the event shooter, :D I still want the pick and pay option. Some from different galleries on my site. Each of my galleries contain up to 30 different individuals (baseball games).
    Greg
    "Tis better keep your mouth shut and be thought of as an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
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