Our queues have been backed up a little...it appears that the image you linked to is being displayed now.
Which brings me to an old feature request. Would it be possible to have a page somewhere on smugmug that displays the current length of the processing queue? Ie the expected time for a photo to be processed.
Then, if a photo takes a long time to display, we could simply check the queue status, rather than posting a thread to dgrin.
For bonus points, you might be able to display the number of photos in the queue and/or how rapidly the queue is lengthening / shortening.
<snip>
And lastly, this feature definitely was added to address the confusion of casual users, but it was built to make it easier to add photos to any gallery for all types of users. For someone who has lots of galleries, and lots of categories, it should be MUCH easier and quicker to add photos to existing galleries from their homepage now.
agree, I like the drop down.... but shouldn't it be sorted???
I think the "Powers that be" are missing a strong point here...
The new feature is quite simply awesome and I HIGHLY doubt anyone would really complain (much) about it IF (and I highly emphasize IF) it A) worked and worked FAST... and by 'worked fast' I mean, "didn't slow down or halt my site".
There's no question in my mind that smugmug is innovative and trying to adapt... it is disheartening to see new features appear without old things missing being addressed/fixed first (as mentioned in page 3 about the permissions while logged in and such) but as a savvy computer user (and I know not every photographer is) I love new bells and whistles... I just HATE them and COMPLAIN about them when they don't work, OR worse yet, make everything else not work too...
I hope no one is sleeping at smugmug and that the problem gets resolved soon... I don't want to be the only one who loses sleep over their business site being "down"... makes me feel as helpless as having a sick child...
Sorry for my ranting - I'm all for innovation, but speed is the priority no matter what. Obviously uptime comes first - and THAT is why I'm upset.
I think the "Powers that be" are missing a strong point here...
The new feature is quite simply awesome and I HIGHLY doubt anyone would really complain (much) about it IF (and I highly emphasize IF) it A) worked and worked FAST... and by 'worked fast' I mean, "didn't slow down or halt my site".
There's no question in my mind that smugmug is innovative and trying to adapt... it is disheartening to see new features appear without old things missing being addressed/fixed first (as mentioned in page 3 about the permissions while logged in and such) but as a savvy computer user (and I know not every photographer is) I love new bells and whistles... I just HATE them and COMPLAIN about them when they don't work, OR worse yet, make everything else not work too...
I hope no one is sleeping at smugmug and that the problem gets resolved soon... I don't want to be the only one who loses sleep over their business site being "down"... makes me feel as helpless as having a sick child...
Sorry for my ranting - I'm all for innovation, but speed is the priority no matter what. Obviously uptime comes first - and THAT is why I'm upset.
Originally Posted by Ben
[/list]Keep in mind that Dgrin (while growing rapidly) still represents a vocal minority of our customers. It is VERY skewed towards the more advanced users and especially Pros. The actual demographic of SmugMug users is very skewed in the opposite direction. Far more casual users than hardcore users.
Don't you think that the large group of casual users are only MORE confused when as was said earlier they check their site every few months only to find the new gallery button is gone or photo bars appear, etc. I guess I find it hard to understand how these changes help the CASUAL users. Less change for casual users = less confusion. I know I started as a casual user, it is one reason I continued with Smugmug when I went pro, fast, easy to use with daily reliability. What happened to that site?
90% of my photo income comes from outside Smugmug, mainly in the form of packages and CD shots, posters. I just put in a very large order for Team and individual packages to WHCC. Order went in Friday, was on my doorstep on Monday, no cost on shipping by the way, and out to the teams Monday night. That is one example of how I as a small business owner can increase my sales, fast, prompt and reliable high quality products. My customers are thrilled. Photo packages make me money and a good amount at that! Smugmug doesn't want a piece of that action?
Coupons have been an often mention request, most big sales through my site are in the first week or two of an event, no surprise there, yet we have no inkling as to when we might see something that helps drive sales early.
Maybe Smugmug is biting off more than it can chew trying to cater to both power pro users and casual users. It would seem from your responses that you are trying to deal with your largest customer base the casual user, and the daily users of your site will just have to go with the flow. That may or may not be in your best interests, I am beginning to think it may not be in mine.
I think the "Powers that be" are missing a strong point here...
The new feature is quite simply awesome and I HIGHLY doubt anyone would really complain (much) about it IF (and I highly emphasize IF) it A) worked and worked FAST... and by 'worked fast' I mean, "didn't slow down or halt my site".
I agree, Eriktank. It was a fairly small feature compared to many other things we have released, but we still tested it internally as we do with every single change to the site. We thought we had it perfect and decided to release it. We were wrong and there were some bugs to work out. I don't know what else to say except that I'm very sorry. I was one of the individuals that tested and signed off on the feature.
We're not going to stop innovating and improving the site just because we are afraid of bugs. We are going to do our best to release them bug-free.
There's no question in my mind that smugmug is innovative and trying to adapt... it is disheartening to see new features appear without old things missing being addressed/fixed first (as mentioned in page 3 about the permissions while logged in and such) but as a savvy computer user (and I know not every photographer is) I love new bells and whistles... I just HATE them and COMPLAIN about them when they don't work, OR worse yet, make everything else not work too...
It's easy to say, "Fix all the bugs first, then release new features." We have an extensive, sorted, and ranked bug list that we are constantly updated on as a company. We care deeply about fixing them because we know how annoying bugs are.
Our main goal will always be to improve the site. Sometimes developer time is best spent fixing bugs. Sometimes it is best spent developing new features. We do our best, but there has to be some sort of balance there.
Sorry for my ranting - I'm all for innovation, but speed is the priority no matter what. Obviously uptime comes first - and THAT is why I'm upset.
Speed is a high priority for us as well, believe me.
Unfortunately, site issues occurring at a specific time are often confused with a feature released at the same time. Sometimes that's true and sometimes it's not. There's no excuse for site slowness, long queues, etc. But don't make the assumption that it is caused by a recent feature all the time.
I, for one, think that you are missing the BIG PICTURE when it come to making changes. Think back to MS and their versions of DOS. Everyone knew when a major change happened. It changed the far left number and the right numbers, from the decimal point, were minor revs. You may want to consider re-evaluating your structure and implementation of updates. To date they appear to be hodge-podge as far as what they are and when they come. So, what REV are we on now? (any numbers?)
Microsoft may have made a lot of money, but their customers are generally not too happy with them. I'd like to think we focus more on customers and less on money, so we won't likely be adopting Microsoft's business plans anytime soon and release SmugMug Ultimate 2007 Professional Release Version 4.326.
On a more serious note though, our product is vastly different than theirs. It's really hard, and in my opinion pointless, to give version numbers. Our Release Notes accomplish just about the same thing, so I'm a bit confused as to why you want version numbers and what it would accomplish.
As to why the Release Notes have not been updated, a part of that reasons is that we wanted to give SmugIslands a bit of a soft launch so that it wouldn't affect site speed too much. It's a wonderful feature that no other photo sharing site has and our customers absolutely love it. But it wreaks absolute havoc on our hardware.
Don't you think that the large group of casual users are only MORE confused when as was said earlier they check their site every few months only to find the new gallery button is gone or photo bars appear, etc. I guess I find it hard to understand how these changes help the CASUAL users. Less change for casual users = less confusion. I know I started as a casual user, it is one reason I continued with Smugmug when I went pro, fast, easy to use with daily reliability. What happened to that site?
Quite frankly, the "add photos" button came down to making the site easier to learn for first-time users and adding a nifty feature for everyone. We found out that quite a few new users were confused about how to get started when they signed up. So we decided to make the process a little more user-friendly and also allow everyone to create new galleries from more locations on their SmugMug site.
I'm really quite happy with the button myself, aside from the bugs. It creates some more uniformity across the pages, provides a short-cut to creating galleries/photos, and generally improves the site. It's in the same spot as the "new gallery" button was and from what we hear in help emails, customers are really quite happy with it once they click on it and see what it does.
It would seem from your responses that you are trying to deal with your largest customer base the casual user, and the daily users of your site will just have to go with the flow.
It's funny how this comes back to us in so many different ways. Pro's complain that we release so many standard features. Standard users complain that we release so many pro features.
Again, we focus on making the site better as a whole. Sometimes it's a feature for everyone, sometimes it's a feature only Pro's get.
Thank you for taking the time to respond, I appreciate it. It didn't address some of mine and others questions on packages etc.....
Has there been any thought to seperating services with pros having something along the lines of a Printroom or Photoreflect type site, low on features, fast on speed? And the Smugmug we have now for your large customer base? I have no idea if it would be possible but I would be willing to pay a higher fee for features Smugmug does offer along with the features available with the other services (coupons, packages, etc.) if I could get a faster, stable fairly barebones type site. I know, I'm only asking for the perfect site:D
You can now use that button to add photos to any gallery on your whole SmugMug site. For many users, that saves clicks. Instead of navigating through the category and subcategory to get to the gallery and click "add photos", you can stay right on whatever page you're on and quickly add photos to any gallery. For many users, that makes a lot more sense. We found lots of people wanted to "add photos" and didn't get the hang of needing a gallery to add the photos to, and they didn't realize they actually had to be IN that gallery to find and "add photos" button.
Ok, I hear what you and Ben are saying.
Still, I like the idea on my home page, but when I'm already in a gallery, then "add photos" makes sense to mean "add photos here". Only one click to the home page to the "more powerful" dropdown if I need to add photos somewhere else.
There's a user interface issue with the button though (not the one on the home page, the one on any other page): it looks just the same it did before, but behaves differently - that's confusing.
Not everyone is happy with every change, but please don't think we're adding features on a whim. We felt this made the site more powerful without complicating the interface. It's a lot easier for most people with lots of categories/subcategories/galleries to get their photos on SmugMug. And that's how we like it.
If it really reduces help requests to your help desk, then fine, well done. But it looks a lot more complicated to me.
Marjolein Katsma
Look through my eyes on Cultural Surfaces! - customizing... currently in a state between limbo and chaos
Please remember, the system is a "means to an end", it is not the "end". I've been here a short time (2-3 months), and labored intensively that first weekend figuring this out, and now, after I've learned what I need to do, it's changing? That is sooo not a good thing in less than 3 months.
We need a consistent interface and consistent performance, Lately, it seems we have neither. The other night I tried to copy/move some photos to other locations, it sat in the original location for not 1 but 15 minutes, then it was showing up in both places, deleted, it wouldn't go away, then tried to re-add, the next day I had like 3 or 4 copies of an image, it was just sooooo frustrating. I was giving time for updates to apply, but it shouldn't take all night!
Respectfully, if I pay over 100.00 for a pro account, I could give a flip about the standard consumer. I care about what care my account receives, and what performance it receives.
Still, I like the idea on my home page, but when I'm already in a gallery, then "add photos" makes sense to mean "add photos here". Only one click to the home page to the "more powerful" dropdown if I need to add photos somewhere else.
There's a user interface issue with the button though (not the one on the home page, the one on any other page): it looks just the same it did before, but behaves differently - that's confusing.
That's a good point and one we will certainly discuss. But here's the problem: if the "add photos" button works different everywhere else except the gallery page, isn't that more confusing? By having it function in a similar manner everywhere, I think it reduces the learning curve.
Please remember, the system is a "means to an end", it is not the "end". I've been here a short time (2-3 months), and labored intensively that first weekend figuring this out, and now, after I've learned what I need to do, it's changing? That is sooo not a good thing in less than 3 months.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but was the "add photos" button that large of an interface change? Did it really require that much effort to figure it out and slightly change how you create galleries and add photos?
Respectfully, if I pay over 100.00 for a pro account, I could give a flip about the standard consumer. I care about what care my account receives, and what performance it receives.
And they could give a flip about you. But we care about both and we often develop features for one, the other, or both.
It's one extra click in some cases, but it's a lot more power
It's "one extra click in ALL cases now", and that is what people are complaining about.
Reading this thread is sounds like the issue Smugmug was trying to address is casual users wanting to add photos to their site from the home page. Well, you fixed that by adding a new "Add Photos" button to the homepage. But then you took it one step further and usability took one step backwards when you changed the existing in-gallery add photos buttons. Thinking about this, I bet the same casual users that you were trying to help preferred the old functionality where the add photos button in the gallery would add the photos to the that gallery, no second questioning like you are doing now.
That's a good point and one we will certainly discuss. But here's the problem: if the "add photos" button works different everywhere else except the gallery page, isn't that more confusing? By having it function in a similar manner everywhere, I think it reduces the learning curve.
Well, that's simple isn't it?
The "dropdown" button (on the home page only) would do a lot more than just allowing adding photos - as someone else remarked, this new button has a different function now, so it should be renamed. The "add photos" button (on every gallery page, not on the home page) would continue to have the same function (or rather get its original function back) so it would continue to have the same name.
I'll leave the naming of the "extended function" button as an exercise for you. (Title attributes can of course assist in expanding a terse button name.)
Marjolein Katsma
Look through my eyes on Cultural Surfaces! - customizing... currently in a state between limbo and chaos
Thinking about this, I bet the same casual users that you were trying to help preferred the old functionality where the add photos button in the gallery would add the photos to the that gallery, no second questioning like you are doing now.
That would be my bet, too. Then again, as a former product manager I know that users can be ever so surprising, especially to developers.
I'd suggest that SmugMug carefully analyze the clickstreams following from the "add photos" buttons on gallery pages: what are they used for most? by what percentage of users? what type of users?
Marjolein Katsma
Look through my eyes on Cultural Surfaces! - customizing... currently in a state between limbo and chaos
It's "one extra click in ALL cases now", and that is what people are complaining about.
That's not true. We gave shortcuts to people all over their SmugMug account to add photos and create galleries. If I'm browsing a gallery or category and want to add photos anywhere on my site, I now have that functionality.
Reading this thread is sounds like the issue Smugmug was trying to address is casual users wanting to add photos to their site from the home page. Well, you fixed that by adding a new "Add Photos" button to the homepage. But then you took it one step further and usability took one step backwards when you changed the existing in-gallery add photos buttons. Thinking about this, I bet the same casual users that you were trying to help preferred the old functionality where the add photos button in the gallery would add the photos to the that gallery, no second questioning like you are doing now.
Look up two posts, Beachbill. I believe the button should act the same or in a similar fashion all across a user's site. If someone gets used to clicking the button to create a new gallery or add photos to an existing gallery, what happens when they click it on a gallery page and didn't want to add photos to that specific gallery?
I, like you, want a consistent interface that functions in an intelligent manner all across my site. But I think many people here are getting upset at a minor change without thinking through the implications. The bugs, of course, made the issue a much hotter topic than it would have been otherwise.
I believe the button should act the same or in a similar fashion all across a user's site. If someone gets used to clicking the button to create a new gallery or add photos to an existing gallery, what happens when they click it on a gallery page and didn't want to add photos to that specific gallery?
Now that's topsy-turvy isn't it?
SM: "We have one button" - so it should function the same everywhere We: We (well, quite a few of us) want two types of functionality, one for the homepage (extended function) and one for othe pages (add photos here and nothing else) - so it should be two different buttons, not the same button with different behavior!
Marjolein Katsma
Look through my eyes on Cultural Surfaces! - customizing... currently in a state between limbo and chaos
Maybe I'm missing something here, but was the "add photos" button that large of an interface change? Did it really require that much effort to figure it out and slightly change how you create galleries and add photos?
Actually yes, it is a big interface and usability change. Everytime I want to add photos now, I click the "add photos" button, then have to wait for the drop down to be populated and then find and click the "add to this gallery" link. Previously when in a gallery that you want to add photos to, you didn't have to give it much thought. Just click the button and start uploading photos. Now one has to wait... and then think...
But here's the problem: if the "add photos" button works different everywhere else except the gallery page, isn't that more confusing? By having it function in a similar manner everywhere, I think it reduces the learning curve.
Not at all. In fact if it anticipates what the user wants to do (add photos to the gallery they are currently in) then the learning curve is effectively reduced.
Here's a idea, someone already mentioned in another thread the since the add photos button is now a flyout/dropdown it's missing the little arrow to denote that fact. Why not take it a step further. When in a gallery, if the user clicks on the "Add Photos" part of the button, default to add photos to that gallery. If the user clicks on the arrow, open the flyout/dropdown.
Here's a idea, someone already mentioned in another thread the since the add photos button is now a flyout/dropdown it's missing the little arrow to denote that fact. Why not take it a step further. When in a gallery, if the user clicks on the "Add Photos" part of the button, default to add photos to that gallery. If the user clicks on the arrow, open the flyout/dropdown.
Almost there... two functions on one button (hard to learn, hard to hit precisely for those who don't have perfect motor control...) ... aha! why not make it two buttons? Easier to learn (two buttons for two functions), easier to hit (larger surface for each)...
Oh wait, I suggested that before didn't I?
Marjolein Katsma
Look through my eyes on Cultural Surfaces! - customizing... currently in a state between limbo and chaos
Unless you can show me how I can add photos to the gallery I'm currently sitting in by clicking the Add Photos button without the new one extra click then it is true. No if, ands, or buts around it.
This is what the complaints are about. Either make the button intelligent or as Marjolein has suggested, make it two buttons and properly rename the new dropdown button on the homepage.
Look up two posts, Beachbill. I believe the button should act the same or in a similar fashion all across a user's site. If someone gets used to clicking the button to create a new gallery or add photos to an existing gallery, what happens when they click it on a gallery page and didn't want to add photos to that specific gallery?
So that was the support issue? Customers were complaining that they were clicking on the add photos button while in a specific gallery, but they didn't want to add photos to that gallery?
By the way, why is "create a new gallery" now hidden inside the "add photos" button?
I agree that the upgrade was well intended, but obviously not well received by the existing members... BUT...
Does anyone really think this matters at all if you can't GET TO your site to begin with? My site almost appears as if it's down it's so slow... I got confirmation it's not just my connection here at the place I'm at right now - it's elsewhere too... If I can't get to it - I know customers can't.
Anyone else NOT having this problem?? I just don't understand why it's been so slow since smug islands appeared... I don't even USE smug islands... *sighs*
Thank you for taking the time to respond, I appreciate it. It didn't address some of mine and others questions on packages etc.....
We don't comment on future developments, we just don't. Packages, coupons and more have been requested by you and other pros. We've said in the feature request thread, and in answering other posts, that these are important features to us, and we'd love to have them on the site, but we've not been able to do them yet. They are on the radar though!
Thanks for the other input, too I'm curious, what do you feel our uptime has been?
We don't comment on future developments, we just don't. Packages, coupons and more have been requested by you and other pros. We've said in the feature request thread, and in answering other posts, that these are important features to us, and we'd love to have them on the site, but we've not been able to do them yet. They are on the radar though!
Thanks for the other input, too I'm curious, what do you feel our uptime has been?
Ok I've heard that before, my only issue is if you go back to thread I pointed out this has been discussed for over two years. I am curious how far out the range is on your radar:D
I'm sorry you lost me on the uptime question, what specifically are you asking? The time it takes a site to load? Mine has been slow off and on all day. I clicked on someones site in the sports forum to see his baseball shots and after two minutes of the page not loading, gave up.
Hi Andy - thanks for the post - it's nice to see you're ontop of the threads as they run wild
As for the uptime question - it seems a bit of a trick question to me. Taking five minutes to load my site technically is still "up" even though it will lose me customers...
I'm not sure what the local connection problem could be since my connection to other websites is stellar from either work or at home... but smugmug is ALWAYS slow... but lately unbarably slow. It's quite frustrating to pay for such an awesome site and not be able to use it...
I used to be a flickr member - I admit it - and I still can load hundreds of thumbnails in just a second or two on a flickr page... snap your fingers and the page completes... I've never had that with smugmug and now it's gotten terribly worse.
Sadly, I'm not trying to rant or complain, I want to help - I want the problem fixed and I'm not the kind of person who likes to sit idly while someone does it for me... if there's something else I can do besides tracert's - please tell me. It seems like the few traceroutes I've seen all go through different servers even up to the main hera server. Does this mean you have multiple ISPs to your front end server? That very well could be the problem...
Maybe I should start a new thread asking for the network guy's detailed info on how things are setup so we can clash network heads together... just let me know what I can do besides sit around and watch my webpage slowly slowly slowly load...
Hi Andy - thanks for the post - it's nice to see you're ontop of the threads as they run wild
As for the uptime question - it seems a bit of a trick question to me. Taking five minutes to load my site technically is still "up" even though it will lose me customers...
I'm not sure what the local connection problem could be since my connection to other websites is stellar from either work or at home... but smugmug is ALWAYS slow... but lately unbarably slow.
We don't like to hear this - because it's fast for most - and these issues are the hardest to pin down. Let's start with a few things:
1) do you experience slowness at home or at work?
2) who is your ISP?
3) can you give us a traceroute from you to us? (holler if you need instructions).
Sheaf's right... You can add photos to your galleries from virtually any place on SM.
I would like a little advanced warning when changes are going to take place. It's only common courteous to your customers, especially those of us who pay.
The first time I used the site after the add photos change surprised me because I was having a hard time pulling up the pull-down menu. Now I don't seem to have too many problems. I like the change because the pull down menu shows all my categories and galleries.
Overall, I am happy with SM, even in times of slowness.
Hi Andy - no one wants to hear their site is slow I understand that...
1) I have slowness 98% of the time... the other 2% happens to be between slowness runs... like I MIGHT get lucky and have a page with half a dozen thumbs appear at a normal speed... then I keep clicking and get to wait another minute or two.
2) Here at work my ISP is Illinois Century Networks - at home I use Mediacom High Speed Internet (8mbs cable line).
As I said in that thread - at some points of the day - just pinging hera.smugmug.com I can't get any better than 500ms... sometimes ranging up to 2 or 3 seconds (2000-3000ms)...
According to the trace routes I have from home and work - I connect to you through a shawcable.net service... However, other people who complained about the speed and posted their trace route info went through gblx.net's service to your site... Just wondering how that is setup I guess...
Hi Andy - no one wants to hear their site is slow I understand that...
1) I have slowness 98% of the time... the other 2% happens to be between slowness runs... like I MIGHT get lucky and have a page with half a dozen thumbs appear at a normal speed... then I keep clicking and get to wait another minute or two.
2) Here at work my ISP is Illinois Century Networks - at home I use Mediacom High Speed Internet (8mbs cable line).
As I said in that thread - at some points of the day - just pinging hera.smugmug.com I can't get any better than 500ms... sometimes ranging up to 2 or 3 seconds (2000-3000ms)...
According to the trace routes I have from home and work - I connect to you through a shawcable.net service... However, other people who complained about the speed and posted their trace route info went through gblx.net's service to your site... Just wondering how that is setup I guess...
As always, thanks in advance!
Hi Erik - your traceroutes look fine. I'm now wondering about firewalls, plugins, add-ons or some other type of software that could be degrading things for you. Anything spring to mind?
...the "add photos" button came down to making the site easier to learn for first-time users and adding a nifty feature for everyone. ...So we decided to make the process a little more user-friendly and also allow everyone to create new galleries from more locations on their SmugMug site.
I'm really quite happy with the button myself, aside from the bugs. It creates some more uniformity across the pages, provides a short-cut to creating galleries/photos, and generally improves the site. It's in the same spot as the "new gallery" button was and from what we hear in help emails, customers are really quite happy with it once they click on it and see what it does.
I just added some photos, and I have to tell you that the new "add photos" functionality made me very happy. It was great not to need to navigate to the gallery first. I simply opened my home page, used the "add photos" button to specify where I wanted to load my photos, and loaded away. Awesome.
I agree that the upgrade was well intended, but obviously not well received by the existing members... BUT...
Well, I can tell you that it's just not the case. I see four or five posters here on Dgrin upset about it (and a few that love it), but we have had an overwhelmingly positive response from help emails. Generally, they have gone something like this, "Where did the new gallery button go?" followed quickly a minute later by, "Woops! I clicked add photos and found out. That's really neat!"
I learned very early on in statistics that voluntary responses are much more likely to come from people with strong opinions (very pro or very con) than from people who don't care very much.
Let me ask you this: If the feature had no bugs and was quick (thus requiring at most one extra click and a few extra seconds), would it be a big deal?
Unless you can show me how I can add photos to the gallery I'm currently sitting in by clicking the Add Photos button without the new one extra click then it is true. No if, ands, or buts around it.
Ahhhh semantics. Allow me to show you how it can actually reduce the number of clicks: You take photos and go to your site to upload them to an existing gallery. Before: you have to click through and find the gallery and then click the button (depending on your site set-up, requiring up to four or five clicks). After: you just click "add photos" on your homepage and then click the gallery.
This is what the complaints are about. Either make the button intelligent or as Marjolein has suggested, make it two buttons and properly rename the new dropdown button on the homepage.
I assure you, it's something we will discuss. But there is quite a bit of sense in having the button work in a similar manner all across SmugMug sites. Adding a new button for basically the same functionality just to get rid of a single click is not an option. We are trying to simplify things, not complicate them.
Comments
Which brings me to an old feature request. Would it be possible to have a page somewhere on smugmug that displays the current length of the processing queue? Ie the expected time for a photo to be processed.
Then, if a photo takes a long time to display, we could simply check the queue status, rather than posting a thread to dgrin.
For bonus points, you might be able to display the number of photos in the queue and/or how rapidly the queue is lengthening / shortening.
agree, I like the drop down.... but shouldn't it be sorted???
The new feature is quite simply awesome and I HIGHLY doubt anyone would really complain (much) about it IF (and I highly emphasize IF) it A) worked and
There's no question in my mind that smugmug is innovative and trying to adapt... it is disheartening to see new features appear without old things missing being addressed/fixed first (as mentioned in page 3 about the permissions while logged in and such) but as a savvy computer user (and I know not every photographer is) I love new bells and whistles... I just HATE them and COMPLAIN about them when they don't work, OR worse yet, make everything else not work too...
I hope no one is sleeping at smugmug and that the problem gets resolved soon... I don't want to be the only one who loses sleep over their business site being "down"... makes me feel as helpless as having a sick child...
Sorry for my ranting - I'm all for innovation, but speed is the priority no matter what. Obviously uptime comes first - and THAT is why I'm upset.
What he said, Thank you Erictank.
Canon Gear
Don't you think that the large group of casual users are only MORE confused when as was said earlier they check their site every few months only to find the new gallery button is gone or photo bars appear, etc. I guess I find it hard to understand how these changes help the CASUAL users. Less change for casual users = less confusion. I know I started as a casual user, it is one reason I continued with Smugmug when I went pro, fast, easy to use with daily reliability. What happened to that site?
90% of my photo income comes from outside Smugmug, mainly in the form of packages and CD shots, posters. I just put in a very large order for Team and individual packages to WHCC. Order went in Friday, was on my doorstep on Monday, no cost on shipping by the way, and out to the teams Monday night. That is one example of how I as a small business owner can increase my sales, fast, prompt and reliable high quality products. My customers are thrilled. Photo packages make me money and a good amount at that! Smugmug doesn't want a piece of that action?
Coupons have been an often mention request, most big sales through my site are in the first week or two of an event, no surprise there, yet we have no inkling as to when we might see something that helps drive sales early.
Maybe Smugmug is biting off more than it can chew trying to cater to both power pro users and casual users. It would seem from your responses that you are trying to deal with your largest customer base the casual user, and the daily users of your site will just have to go with the flow. That may or may not be in your best interests, I am beginning to think it may not be in mine.
Canon Gear
We're not going to stop innovating and improving the site just because we are afraid of bugs. We are going to do our best to release them bug-free.
It's easy to say, "Fix all the bugs first, then release new features." We have an extensive, sorted, and ranked bug list that we are constantly updated on as a company. We care deeply about fixing them because we know how annoying bugs are.
Our main goal will always be to improve the site. Sometimes developer time is best spent fixing bugs. Sometimes it is best spent developing new features. We do our best, but there has to be some sort of balance there.
Speed is a high priority for us as well, believe me.
Unfortunately, site issues occurring at a specific time are often confused with a feature released at the same time. Sometimes that's true and sometimes it's not. There's no excuse for site slowness, long queues, etc. But don't make the assumption that it is caused by a recent feature all the time.
Microsoft may have made a lot of money, but their customers are generally not too happy with them. I'd like to think we focus more on customers and less on money, so we won't likely be adopting Microsoft's business plans anytime soon and release SmugMug Ultimate 2007 Professional Release Version 4.326.
On a more serious note though, our product is vastly different than theirs. It's really hard, and in my opinion pointless, to give version numbers. Our Release Notes accomplish just about the same thing, so I'm a bit confused as to why you want version numbers and what it would accomplish.
As to why the Release Notes have not been updated, a part of that reasons is that we wanted to give SmugIslands a bit of a soft launch so that it wouldn't affect site speed too much. It's a wonderful feature that no other photo sharing site has and our customers absolutely love it. But it wreaks absolute havoc on our hardware.
Quite frankly, the "add photos" button came down to making the site easier to learn for first-time users and adding a nifty feature for everyone. We found out that quite a few new users were confused about how to get started when they signed up. So we decided to make the process a little more user-friendly and also allow everyone to create new galleries from more locations on their SmugMug site.
I'm really quite happy with the button myself, aside from the bugs. It creates some more uniformity across the pages, provides a short-cut to creating galleries/photos, and generally improves the site. It's in the same spot as the "new gallery" button was and from what we hear in help emails, customers are really quite happy with it once they click on it and see what it does.
It's funny how this comes back to us in so many different ways. Pro's complain that we release so many standard features. Standard users complain that we release so many pro features.
Again, we focus on making the site better as a whole. Sometimes it's a feature for everyone, sometimes it's a feature only Pro's get.
Has there been any thought to seperating services with pros having something along the lines of a Printroom or Photoreflect type site, low on features, fast on speed? And the Smugmug we have now for your large customer base? I have no idea if it would be possible but I would be willing to pay a higher fee for features Smugmug does offer along with the features available with the other services (coupons, packages, etc.) if I could get a faster, stable fairly barebones type site. I know, I'm only asking for the perfect site:D
Canon Gear
Still, I like the idea on my home page, but when I'm already in a gallery, then "add photos" makes sense to mean "add photos here". Only one click to the home page to the "more powerful" dropdown if I need to add photos somewhere else.
There's a user interface issue with the button though (not the one on the home page, the one on any other page): it looks just the same it did before, but behaves differently - that's confusing.
If it really reduces help requests to your help desk, then fine, well done. But it looks a lot more complicated to me.
Look through my eyes on Cultural Surfaces! - customizing... currently in a state between limbo and chaos
We need a consistent interface and consistent performance, Lately, it seems we have neither. The other night I tried to copy/move some photos to other locations, it sat in the original location for not 1 but 15 minutes, then it was showing up in both places, deleted, it wouldn't go away, then tried to re-add, the next day I had like 3 or 4 copies of an image, it was just sooooo frustrating. I was giving time for updates to apply, but it shouldn't take all night!
Respectfully, if I pay over 100.00 for a pro account, I could give a flip about the standard consumer. I care about what care my account receives, and what performance it receives.
Vent off-
That's a good point and one we will certainly discuss. But here's the problem: if the "add photos" button works different everywhere else except the gallery page, isn't that more confusing? By having it function in a similar manner everywhere, I think it reduces the learning curve.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but was the "add photos" button that large of an interface change? Did it really require that much effort to figure it out and slightly change how you create galleries and add photos?
And they could give a flip about you. But we care about both and we often develop features for one, the other, or both.
Reading this thread is sounds like the issue Smugmug was trying to address is casual users wanting to add photos to their site from the home page. Well, you fixed that by adding a new "Add Photos" button to the homepage. But then you took it one step further and usability took one step backwards when you changed the existing in-gallery add photos buttons. Thinking about this, I bet the same casual users that you were trying to help preferred the old functionality where the add photos button in the gallery would add the photos to the that gallery, no second questioning like you are doing now.
The "dropdown" button (on the home page only) would do a lot more than just allowing adding photos - as someone else remarked, this new button has a different function now, so it should be renamed. The "add photos" button (on every gallery page, not on the home page) would continue to have the same function (or rather get its original function back) so it would continue to have the same name.
I'll leave the naming of the "extended function" button as an exercise for you.
Look through my eyes on Cultural Surfaces! - customizing... currently in a state between limbo and chaos
I'd suggest that SmugMug carefully analyze the clickstreams following from the "add photos" buttons on gallery pages: what are they used for most? by what percentage of users? what type of users?
Look through my eyes on Cultural Surfaces! - customizing... currently in a state between limbo and chaos
That's not true. We gave shortcuts to people all over their SmugMug account to add photos and create galleries. If I'm browsing a gallery or category and want to add photos anywhere on my site, I now have that functionality.
Look up two posts, Beachbill. I believe the button should act the same or in a similar fashion all across a user's site. If someone gets used to clicking the button to create a new gallery or add photos to an existing gallery, what happens when they click it on a gallery page and didn't want to add photos to that specific gallery?
I, like you, want a consistent interface that functions in an intelligent manner all across my site. But I think many people here are getting upset at a minor change without thinking through the implications. The bugs, of course, made the issue a much hotter topic than it would have been otherwise.
SM: "We have one button" - so it should function the same everywhere
We: We (well, quite a few of us) want two types of functionality, one for the homepage (extended function) and one for othe pages (add photos here and nothing else) - so it should be two different buttons, not the same button with different behavior!
Look through my eyes on Cultural Surfaces! - customizing... currently in a state between limbo and chaos
Actually yes, it is a big interface and usability change. Everytime I want to add photos now, I click the "add photos" button, then have to wait for the drop down to be populated and then find and click the "add to this gallery" link. Previously when in a gallery that you want to add photos to, you didn't have to give it much thought. Just click the button and start uploading photos. Now one has to wait... and then think...
Not at all. In fact if it anticipates what the user wants to do (add photos to the gallery they are currently in) then the learning curve is effectively reduced.
Here's a idea, someone already mentioned in another thread the since the add photos button is now a flyout/dropdown it's missing the little arrow to denote that fact. Why not take it a step further. When in a gallery, if the user clicks on the "Add Photos" part of the button, default to add photos to that gallery. If the user clicks on the arrow, open the flyout/dropdown.
Oh wait, I suggested that before didn't I?
Look through my eyes on Cultural Surfaces! - customizing... currently in a state between limbo and chaos
Unless you can show me how I can add photos to the gallery I'm currently sitting in by clicking the Add Photos button without the new one extra click then it is true. No if, ands, or buts around it.
This is what the complaints are about. Either make the button intelligent or as Marjolein has suggested, make it two buttons and properly rename the new dropdown button on the homepage.
So that was the support issue? Customers were complaining that they were clicking on the add photos button while in a specific gallery, but they didn't want to add photos to that gallery?
By the way, why is "create a new gallery" now hidden inside the "add photos" button?
Does anyone really think this matters at all if you can't GET TO your site to begin with? My site almost appears as if it's down it's so slow... I got confirmation it's not just my connection here at the place I'm at right now - it's elsewhere too... If I can't get to it - I know customers can't.
Anyone else NOT having this problem?? I just don't understand why it's been so slow since smug islands appeared... I don't even USE smug islands... *sighs*
Thanks for the other input, too
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Ok I've heard that before, my only issue is if you go back to thread I pointed out this has been discussed for over two years. I am curious how far out the range is on your radar:D
I'm sorry you lost me on the uptime question, what specifically are you asking? The time it takes a site to load? Mine has been slow off and on all day. I clicked on someones site in the sports forum to see his baseball shots and after two minutes of the page not loading, gave up.
Canon Gear
As for the uptime question - it seems a bit of a trick question to me. Taking five minutes to load my site technically is still "up" even though it will lose me customers...
I'm not sure what the local connection problem could be since my connection to other websites is stellar from either work or at home... but smugmug is ALWAYS slow... but lately unbarably slow. It's quite frustrating to pay for such an awesome site and not be able to use it...
I used to be a flickr member - I admit it - and I still can load hundreds of thumbnails in just a second or two on a flickr page... snap your fingers and the page completes... I've never had that with smugmug and now it's gotten terribly worse.
Sadly, I'm not trying to rant or complain, I want to help - I want the problem fixed and I'm not the kind of person who likes to sit idly while someone does it for me... if there's something else I can do besides tracert's - please tell me. It seems like the few traceroutes I've seen all go through different servers even up to the main hera server. Does this mean you have multiple ISPs to your front end server? That very well could be the problem...
Maybe I should start a new thread asking for the network guy's detailed info on how things are setup so we can clash network heads together... just let me know what I can do besides sit around and watch my webpage slowly slowly slowly load...
1) do you experience slowness at home or at work?
2) who is your ISP?
3) can you give us a traceroute from you to us? (holler if you need instructions).
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I would like a little advanced warning when changes are going to take place. It's only common courteous to your customers, especially those of us who pay.
The first time I used the site after the add photos change surprised me because I was having a hard time pulling up the pull-down menu. Now I don't seem to have too many problems. I like the change because the pull down menu shows all my categories and galleries.
Overall, I am happy with SM, even in times of slowness.
My SM site: http://www.simplykristi.smugmug.com/
1) I have slowness 98% of the time... the other 2% happens to be between slowness runs... like I MIGHT get lucky and have a page with half a dozen thumbs appear at a normal speed... then I keep clicking and get to wait another minute or two.
2) Here at work my ISP is Illinois Century Networks - at home I use Mediacom High Speed Internet (8mbs cable line).
3) See the thread here - where I have already provided the tracert:
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?p=572047#post572047
As I said in that thread - at some points of the day - just pinging hera.smugmug.com I can't get any better than 500ms... sometimes ranging up to 2 or 3 seconds (2000-3000ms)...
According to the trace routes I have from home and work - I connect to you through a shawcable.net service... However, other people who complained about the speed and posted their trace route info went through gblx.net's service to your site... Just wondering how that is setup I guess...
As always, thanks in advance!
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Thanks.
--- Denise
Musings & ramblings at https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com
I learned very early on in statistics that voluntary responses are much more likely to come from people with strong opinions (very pro or very con) than from people who don't care very much.
Let me ask you this: If the feature had no bugs and was quick (thus requiring at most one extra click and a few extra seconds), would it be a big deal?
Ahhhh semantics. Allow me to show you how it can actually reduce the number of clicks: You take photos and go to your site to upload them to an existing gallery. Before: you have to click through and find the gallery and then click the button (depending on your site set-up, requiring up to four or five clicks). After: you just click "add photos" on your homepage and then click the gallery.
I assure you, it's something we will discuss. But there is quite a bit of sense in having the button work in a similar manner all across SmugMug sites. Adding a new button for basically the same functionality just to get rid of a single click is not an option. We are trying to simplify things, not complicate them.
We are much less persistent.
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