I like the new "Add photos" menu.... actually, it is such a quick view of my site that I'd like to be able to navigate to my galleries this way as well
Can someone comment on whether the lists can be sorted? I keep mentioning it, but the discussion keeps going back to click counting...
I like the new "Add photos" menu.... actually, it is such a quick view of my site that I'd like to be able to navigate to my galleries this way as well
Can someone comment on whether the lists can be sorted? I keep mentioning it, but the discussion keeps going back to click counting...
Making this a navigation option on your home page could be a really cool option. It would make getting to a nested spot in the site a lot, lot quicker because you wouldn't have to load each interveing page. I'd have to see it and play with it to know it was a good idea, but it seems like it's worth trying. See my post here for some ideas on where else in the site to use this new category/gallery picker.
I have received your first Private Message - and then your 2nd message after my response to you. Since, in your 2nd message to me, you indicate that you will not respond to any more PMs "since it's a total waste of time" I will reply here.
Seymore, respectfully, I disagree with your statement that we don't listen to our customers.
And I'm starting to get tired of this thread and the inability of SM to listen to some of the input users about all the problems "WE" are seeing lately.
We have an open, public record of doing just the opposite It's how we've grown. We are a transparent company that seeks input, and acts on it. Just look at the discussions around: Lightbox, January of 2006 - well, our fist iteration of this feature was not so good (and that's being kind!)... after tons a feedback, we got that feature right; SmugMug Ajax - we put out a full Beta Version and for 6 weeks sought customer feedback - and made many, many changes based on that direct feedback; Don't Want Photos To Be Public. SmugIslands came out of this discussion.
These are just a few of the more visible ones, there are countless more. I'll stand us up against any company out there, as a company that listens to our customers. But you must remember, we can't possibly do everything that every customer says. We have far more folks telling us how happy they are with the new Add Photos button, than there are those that are telling us the opposite. I'm sorry it's not making you happy.
You told me that you would leave SmugMug if we continue to do things the way we've been doing them - we don't want you to go, but we won't stop innovating, and we won't stop listening to our customers, either.
I'm really, really sorry that this feature has upset you so much. I wish I had a better answer for you on this, one that would make you happy.
Instead of "add photos" change the button to "add thingies".:D Then in the
drop have add photos, add gallery, add category and add sub-cat. Then you
wouldn't have to explain that adding cats and sub-cats are deep in the
control panel which I see answered many times.
Instead of "add photos" change the button to "add thingies".:D
I reckon that's about the only possible non-wordy description that actually describes what the thing does. Title attribute attribute could then be used to sum up which "thingies" can be added with it.
Congrats, that's really creative.
Marjolein Katsma
Look through my eyes on Cultural Surfaces! - customizing... currently in a state between limbo and chaos
Instead of "add photos" change the button to "add thingies".:D Then in the
drop have add photos, add gallery, add category and add sub-cat. Then you
wouldn't have to explain that adding cats and sub-cats are deep in the
control panel which I see answered many times.
Maybe "Add Gallery/Photos"? or even better... "Add Content"?
Here's something else to consider - when I log into my site, it never shows I'm logged in (after I click the "return to the page you were just viewing" link... I have to refresh the browser for it to use the logged in cookie (or so it seems is the case)... after a refresh - it loads and all my extra options are there... but is that normal? I get that after changing any settings that redirect me to the page I was just viewing too... have to always do a refresh... the reason I ask - it takes forever to do a refresh now
Just a followup on this. Perhaps it should go in a new thread, or be added as a bug in the wiki.
When you first log in and go to your home page, if you look at the source, you will notice the "loggedIn" attribute is not there. "loggedIn" doesn't appear until you either refresh the page or browse to a gallery within your site.
After first logging in:
body onload=" smugLoad();" class="homepage bodyColor_Black"
div id="homepage" class="homepage bodyColor_Black"
After a refresh or browse to another smugmug page, "loggedIn" is now available:
body onload=" smugLoad();" class="homepage loggedIn bodyColor_Black"
div id="homepage" class="homepage loggedIn bodyColor_Black"
Note: you must log out, clear your cache and restart your browser before attempting to duplicate this otherwise it appears you will get a cached version of your logged in homepage and therefore won't see the issue.
Is right. Common Seymore lets not get into a junior level _______ contest here so lets not talk about years in the industry or accomplishments cause I can guarantee you there are people here who can out do you.
So let’s get to the bottom of this thread.
You posted originally because you had a problem with a new feature where there was an actual bug in the system. Thank you for bringing that bug to smugs attention as who knows how long it would have gone unreported. Thanks to your mentioning it, the bug was found, and fixed right away. Just one example of smugmug listening to its customers. Then let’s see, the smug islands, why, another example of smugmug listening to its customers (wow they really must not pay attention to your requests eh). Proof Delayed shipping (they listened), the new upload applications (why that’s listening to their customers again), switching to S3 and upgrading hardware when a customer announced there was going to be a HUGE upload of his photo's, Changing the titles on photos in the shopping cart when we didn't like how they were called a couple years ago, upgraded visitor stats, comment notification, Backprinting, Custom Watermarking, and I could go on but I'm at work right now and don't have that much time.
Your upset because not everything you have said you wanted got done right away. You’re upset because your opinions aren't treated as though they are absolutely the best thing since sliced bread. Well lets face it Seymore, Smug has a team that has developed it from a nothing company when .com's where dying, into a profitable, reliable, raved about .com. That alone, not to mention my examples show that they listen to their customers. No not everything we request is done as quickly as we would like (I'm still waiting on my photo packages Andy :dragon ) but if you know anything about software and website development you know that sometimes the things that look easiest are the most complicated to accomplish. After all one misplaced " in the code could shut everything down. Smug is a privately held company, they don't have to listen to their customers at all if they don't want to, instead they strive to offer the highest level of customer service as possible. What qualifies me to make these statements (seeing as you seem to like to know that). I am an IT director, software I have designed and worked on developing, a network I have completely designed and implemented, Updates and Upgrades I decide on and other the other responsibilities my job entails are responsible for running a multi-million dollar company that supports some of the biggest companies in the world (in industries like aerospace defense, the automotive world, government, manufacturing, etc). If that doesn't qualify me to understand the troubles smug faces nothing will.
I think you need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and look at the bigger picture. Smug has thousands of customers. They have to listen to everyone, take the suggestions that they feel will benefit the most amount of people, and then try to implement them in the best way possible with causing the least amount of down time to our sites. No one can make everyone happy all of the time, it's just not possible. But smug does it's best to accomplish that. And it is a privately held company, they do have competitors, and they aren’t holding you hostage. They even admit that they can’t be the one solution that everybody needs.
I am not an employee of smugmug, I am a volunteer who believes in their services and products so much that I give of my time to help them on this forum. I believe in their services so much I have two accounts with them. There are things I am not happy with, there are things that I love. If I’m not happy with something I talk to them about it and they work on a solution (with or without any further input from me). Some solutions happen right away, some solutions take longer. As an IT pro you should understand how things need to be prioritized and how not everyone see’s priorities in the same order. You see your requests as number one. But remember you are user 254 of 543,230 (figure made up in my head). Take a chill pill and look at the big picture and you should be able to understand this.
actually, it is such a quick view of my site that I'd like to be able to navigate to my galleries this way as well
Excellent idea!
A navigation button that appears on every page (perhaps call it "Jump To") would be excellent. It could be made available to both the site owner and end user (could be hidden by owner just like most other things).
You can take my maps when you pry them from my cold dead fingers.
Or something like that. Living in the UK away from family in the US, I'm finding that the maps feature is letting family live out my son's life more than just about anything else I've ever seen. They can see when pics were taken AND know exactly where. They can see the table we were sitting at when we fed the boy in Bath, UK. They can see the field where we were nuzzled by a half-dozen cute as heck, tiny horses. My family loves it. I know other people feel the same way about it.
If you don't like it, no sweat. Hidden! You don't even have to look at it at all if you don't want. How that could cause someone heartache is beyond me.
Y'all don't want to hear me, you just want to dance.
Well at the risk of sounding like im joining the gang against the naysayers but I have to. I pretty much agree with what Dragon said a few posts up. Plus one thing I dont think people realize is that the internet is all about the next guy in line. I mean from one coast to the other your traffic may hop 20-30 times. You are relying on all those in between to work just as well....when in fact some just suck. Please dont give me the BS about oh i've IT for 50 years and I know its not the case because im in IT as well and know its the case. We deal with it every day. When im at home my uploads to SM suck but its because of my cable line, on works T-1 its insane (2 gigs up in 4-5 hours) but that isnt smugmugs fault.....or would you say it is?
Arguing on the net is dumb so im going to stop and say SM isnt always a pretty rainbow but they sure the heck beat out the sucktastic alternatives on the net.
And to echo what other have said here... I WANT TO TAKE STILL IMAGES!!!
Seems someone isn't getting the bigger picture still. You may not want all of these changes, but many users do, and many users find them usefull. Again you are seeing a small cross section (a handfull really) and thinking that is all of smug's users. I don't know what user account level you have, but even with all of the changes for the most part you can still do the basic type stuff really easily. You don't have to get into the page custimization if you don't want to. They don't force people to do it.
But then again you sigend up with smugmug for a reason right. Otherwise you'd be using one of their lesser competitors.
You had one problem where you found a bug, smug thanked you, and fixed it right away. That right there is muting most of what you are saying. I don't know what bug you got this week, but your making claims based on the fact that your word isn't taken as god. Thats kinda reality though. 1 of thousands. Big picture.
Get it together guys... I don't want to debug or do anything in WEB development. That is your job.
This thread has gotten way, way out of hand. It's turned into a Smugmug-bashing thread and lost little a logical context.
Smugmug should not have serious bugs in their new features. That is clearly their fault and they would agree with that in regards to this issue. That should not be an indictment againt evolving the site with new features, but rather should be an indictment of a weakness in their testing process that needs to get fixed.
On the other hand, there is no such thing as a service that you can freely customize with any random HTML and CSS that is 100% independent from the natural evolution of the site as they add new features. That is theoretically impossible. If they massively limited the kinds of customizations you could do (think about a limited number of checkboxes in a web form and no custom HTML or CSS), then it would be possible for them to do this, but when users have free reign to change the look of their site in any way possible as their heart desires, it is NOT possible for Smugmug to both deliver you new features and fully insulate you from the effects of those new features. They can try to be smart about how they change things to limit the effect as much as possible, but if they change one thing in the page, it will break someone who has done major customizations. That is just a fact of life.
So, there are only four possible stable points I know of:
1) Smugmug stops adding any new features. Your site never changes. You just stay happy with the features you have today, can customize the hell out of your site and are never forced to change anything. Of course when a competitive site rolls out some new feature that appeals to you, you won't have it here.
2) Don't customize your site or don't customize it beyond very simple things (this is the camp I'm currently in) so your site is not likely to break as it receives new features.
3) You go get your own hosting and run your own photo software (like coppermine) and you only take upgrades/new features when you want to.
4) You go along for the ride with Smugmug. You regularly get new features. Smugmug improves its ability to communicate possible design effects on the site to its customers, improves its ability for customers to "beta" new revs before they go live and improves its testing process so fewer mistakes are made. If you do lots of customization, you will have to regularly modify some of those customizations. If you don't do lots of customization, it shouldn't be any work to stay current.
We all know that 1) won't work for Smugmug as a business. You have to evolve the feature set of the site or die.
Option 2) should work for anyone who chooses that.
Option 3) is always an option if you want to totally control your environment.
Option 4) is something that I think Smugmug should consider getting better at.
You can take my maps when you pry them from my cold dead fingers.
Or something like that. Living in the UK away from family in the US, I'm finding that the maps feature is letting family live out my son's life more than just about anything else I've ever seen. They can see when pics were taken AND know exactly where. They can see the table we were sitting at when we fed the boy in Bath, UK. They can see the field where we were nuzzled by a half-dozen cute as heck, tiny horses. My family loves it. I know other people feel the same way about it.
If you don't like it, no sweat. Hidden! You don't even have to look at it at all if you don't want. How that could cause someone heartache is beyond me.
Oh, sweet Jesus. One more time. I DID NOT say that the feature couldnt be useful. IT CAN BE. All im saying is that the feature isnt ready for prime time & that it makes the page its implemented on slow, jerky & not as responsive overall. Not just a little bit either. Its noticeable.
Saying that thousands of people use it everyday doesnt make something good. Hundreds of thousands of people use myspace too & its terrible.
Im talking about sacrificing speed & responsiveness for a feature that is just so so right now. OK?
Mike, you of all people should know what im talking about.
Mike, you of all people should know what im talking about.
Not so much Kerry, sorry. My son's page is using a map and it's got no speed problems that I or any of my family members have seen. Maybe you're going on old information or something?
Y'all don't want to hear me, you just want to dance.
Seems SM is forcing the users to accept changes that the minority want. To bad the majority doesn't speak up.
I hate to break this to you but I think you are in the minority here. I think most users like the changes. I saw them and said "OK, cool".
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Seymore
We generally don't speak up because WE ARE the 'silent' majority:D
Generally we see no need to voice our opinion because we are content with it, and maybe we don't want to extend what maybe we see as a pointless thread any further. Maybe our perspective on life is just different to yours.
It is not SAD.
May you have some peace soon:D
Maybe "Add Gallery/Photos"? or even better... "Add Content"?
I was going to suggest something very similar: "Add Photos or Gallery". There's ample room to make the button wide enough to say all that.
As a software developer, I learned long ago that it's better to spell things out so even the most non-computer person will get it. I don't think "Add Content" would be clear enough (many people wouldn't realize that you'd be able to create a new gallery with such a button).
After reading this whole thread, I think the "Add Photos" button issue could be improved like this:
1. Make it more descriptive: "Add Photos or Gallery"
2. Add a down-arrow or an ellipse at the end to indicate that more follows: "Add Photos or Gallery v" or "Add Photos or Gallery..."
3. Make the pop-down menu appear as soon as the mouse hovers over the button instead of waiting for a click (thus saving the initial click).
I hadn't even noticed the change on the home page since I haven't added any new galleries lately, but I must admit I probably would've been confused looking for the "new gallery" button if I hadn't read this thread! Doubtful it would've occurred to me to use the "add photos" button to add a new gallery. So, a better description for that button would definitely help.
Chuck
CWC Photography: “Painting pictures with cameras.” • Nature & Animals • Around the World • New York City • Miscellaneous • Sunsets • Central Park
As a software developer, I learned long ago that it's better to spell things out so even the most non-computer person will get it. I don't think "Add Content" would be clear enough (many people wouldn't realize that you'd be able to create a new gallery with such a button).
Agreed. Assumptions that users will "get it" cause far more problems than they are worth. From the comments by employees here, it seems that non-computer users are their primary audience, so yes, it definitely needs to be spelled out.
After reading this whole thread, I think the "Add Photos" button issue could be improved like this:
1. Make it more descriptive: "Add Photos or Gallery"
2. Add a down-arrow or an ellipse at the end to indicate that more follows: "Add Photos or Gallery v" or "Add Photos or Gallery..."
I think both of these are necessary.
3. Make the pop-down menu appear as soon as the mouse hovers over the button instead of waiting for a click (thus saving the initial click).
On hover popovers in things that arnt obviously navigation bars are annoying. Hell, they are annoying even in a nav bar. My mouse has buttons to indicate that i want an object to perform an action. Moving the mouse around the screen should not trigger any interface (photobar...). Im not too worried about the extra click.
Previously, SmugMuggers needed to know that in order to add photos, they had to first create a gallery. So, it made perfect sense to make "new gallery" and "add photos" two distinct functions. As Ben pointed out, there was major confusion on this point. It seemed nobody wanted to click that "new gallery" button, because what they REALLY wanted to do was just put their photos on SmugMug to share.
So I'd like to know, how often do SmugMuggers create a gallery for a reason other than adding photos?
When I log in to SmugMug with fresh photos I do the following:
1) Say to myself: "Ah, I'd like to add these photos to my SmugMug site".
2) Look for an "add photos" button (now available on any page).
3) Then, I need to decide whether I want to add photos to an existing gallery or create a new gallery for these photos. One click, and I've made my choice.
Creating a gallery is the means to an end. The way I see it, the whole reason you're creating a gallery is because you'd like to "add photos". Prior to this change, we already took you straight to the uploader of choice immediately after creating a new gallery.
In my mind, it's similar to the "buy this photo" button. That button actually only adds the photo to the cart, because buying it entails selecting shipping, entering billing information, confirming the order etc. But you click "buy this photo" because you'd like to purchase the photo.
I click "add photos" because that's what I'd like to do... add photos, even if I need to create a new gallery to do it!
Am I missing something? It seems to me like this is a change that'll take our existing SmugMug customers a few minutes (days maybe?) to adjust to, but it speeds up the process without significantly changing the way things work.
And for new customers, and old customers who think like I do, we can now "add photos" easily from anywhere.
Just have the button say "Add things".:D Fairly simple and
understandable. Could even add category and sub-cat there
which are buried in the control panel now.
Previously, SmugMuggers needed to know that in order to add photos, they had to first create a gallery. So, it made perfect sense to make "new gallery" and "add photos" two distinct functions. As Ben pointed out, there was major confusion on this point. It seemed nobody wanted to click that "new gallery" button, because what they REALLY wanted to do was just put their photos on SmugMug to share.
So I'd like to know, how often do SmugMuggers create a gallery for a reason other than adding photos?
When I log in to SmugMug with fresh photos I do the following:
1) Say to myself: "Ah, I'd like to add these photos to my SmugMug site".
2) Look for an "add photos" button (now available on any page).
3) Then, I need to decide whether I want to add photos to an existing gallery or create a new gallery for these photos. One click, and I've made my choice.
Creating a gallery is the means to an end. The way I see it, the whole reason you're creating a gallery is because you'd like to "add photos". Prior to this change, we already took you straight to the uploader of choice immediately after creating a new gallery.
In my mind, it's similar to the "buy this photo" button. That button actually only adds the photo to the cart, because buying it entails selecting shipping, entering billing information, confirming the order etc. But you click "buy this photo" because you'd like to purchase the photo.
I click "add photos" because that's what I'd like to do... add photos, even if I need to create a new gallery to do it!
Am I missing something? It seems to me like this is a change that'll take our existing SmugMug customers a few minutes (days maybe?) to adjust to, but it speeds up the process without significantly changing the way things work.
And for new customers, and old customers who think like I do, we can now "add photos" easily from anywhere.
-Anne
Sounds right to me and pretty much describes my approach to Smugmug
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Previously, SmugMuggers needed to know that in order to add photos, they had to first create a gallery. So, it made perfect sense to make "new gallery" and "add photos" two distinct functions. As Ben pointed out, there was major confusion on this point. It seemed nobody wanted to click that "new gallery" button, because what they REALLY wanted to do was just put their photos on SmugMug to share.
So I'd like to know, how often do SmugMuggers create a gallery for a reason other than adding photos?
When I log in to SmugMug with fresh photos I do the following:
1) Say to myself: "Ah, I'd like to add these photos to my SmugMug site".
2) Look for an "add photos" button (now available on any page).
3) Then, I need to decide whether I want to add photos to an existing gallery or create a new gallery for these photos. One click, and I've made my choice.
Creating a gallery is the means to an end. The way I see it, the whole reason you're creating a gallery is because you'd like to "add photos". Prior to this change, we already took you straight to the uploader of choice immediately after creating a new gallery.
In my mind, it's similar to the "buy this photo" button. That button actually only adds the photo to the cart, because buying it entails selecting shipping, entering billing information, confirming the order etc. But you click "buy this photo" because you'd like to purchase the photo.
I click "add photos" because that's what I'd like to do... add photos, even if I need to create a new gallery to do it!
Am I missing something? It seems to me like this is a change that'll take our existing SmugMug customers a few minutes (days maybe?) to adjust to, but it speeds up the process without significantly changing the way things work.
And for new customers, and old customers who think like I do, we can now "add photos" easily from anywhere.
-Anne
Anne, I don't think this whole issue is all that big a deal, but you are oversimplifying the use cases that should be considered in a design. You are only describing some of the use cases. Here are all the use cases I see:
New user with no galleries wants to add some photos to their site
New user with a few galleries wants to add some photos to their site and will want them in a new gallery
User wants to add photos to an exisiting gallery
User wants to create a gallery and configure it's settings in advance of adding any photos (something all users who want protection or security on their images will do)
User wants to create several galleries (e.g. all the galleries for a specific event) and configure their settings before starting any uploads.
User who never adds photos through Smugmug's HTML pages because they use a third party uploader and thus all they do in Smugmug's interface in this regard is create galleries
You have optimized the design for use cases 1-3. You've made it slightly less intuitive and, in some cases, a few more clicks for use cases 4-6 by taking the creating gallery function out of the top level. Whether you did this knowingly or not, you should not be surprised if people who primarily fall into use cases 4-6 like the new UI less than the old UI.
You are correct that everyone can do what they want and everyone in use cases 4-6 can adapt even if it's an extra click or two. You (Smugmug) just have to be sure you have the right usability trade-off (you did force a trade-off with this design change) for your customer base as a whole. And, you shouldn't be surprised, offended or defensive when people who fall into use cases 4-6 like the new design less. You have slightly compromised their experience in favor of the other use cases.
I personally fall into use case 6 (I use StarExplorer), but the extra click to add a gallery is not a big deal to me.
StarExplorer won't add galleries? I don't use it (since I'm not running windows), but that's one of the things I love about SmugBrowser, is that you can set up galleries through it. I'm surprised that StarExplorer doesn't allow you to do that.
Comments
Can someone comment on whether the lists can be sorted? I keep mentioning it, but the discussion keeps going back to click counting...
Making this a navigation option on your home page could be a really cool option. It would make getting to a nested spot in the site a lot, lot quicker because you wouldn't have to load each interveing page. I'd have to see it and play with it to know it was a good idea, but it seems like it's worth trying. See my post here for some ideas on where else in the site to use this new category/gallery picker.
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I'll ask about sorting and see.
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Yeah, I'm sure The New York Times are just dying for this scoop.
It is destined to later be known as "The Story of the Century". Puh-leeze.
http://bertold.zenfolio.com
I have received your first Private Message - and then your 2nd message after my response to you. Since, in your 2nd message to me, you indicate that you will not respond to any more PMs "since it's a total waste of time" I will reply here.
Seymore, respectfully, I disagree with your statement that we don't listen to our customers.
We have an open, public record of doing just the opposite
These are just a few of the more visible ones, there are countless more. I'll stand us up against any company out there, as a company that listens to our customers. But you must remember, we can't possibly do everything that every customer says. We have far more folks telling us how happy they are with the new Add Photos button, than there are those that are telling us the opposite. I'm sorry it's not making you happy.
You told me that you would leave SmugMug if we continue to do things the way we've been doing them - we don't want you to go, but we won't stop innovating, and we won't stop listening to our customers, either.
I'm really, really sorry that this feature has upset you so much. I wish I had a better answer for you on this, one that would make you happy.
I hope this helps.
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drop have add photos, add gallery, add category and add sub-cat. Then you
wouldn't have to explain that adding cats and sub-cats are deep in the
control panel which I see answered many times.
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Congrats, that's really creative.
Look through my eyes on Cultural Surfaces! - customizing... currently in a state between limbo and chaos
Maybe "Add Gallery/Photos"? or even better... "Add Content"?
When you first log in and go to your home page, if you look at the source, you will notice the "loggedIn" attribute is not there. "loggedIn" doesn't appear until you either refresh the page or browse to a gallery within your site.
After first logging in:
body onload=" smugLoad();" class="homepage bodyColor_Black"
div id="homepage" class="homepage bodyColor_Black"
After a refresh or browse to another smugmug page, "loggedIn" is now available:
body onload=" smugLoad();" class="homepage loggedIn bodyColor_Black"
div id="homepage" class="homepage loggedIn bodyColor_Black"
Note: you must log out, clear your cache and restart your browser before attempting to duplicate this otherwise it appears you will get a cached version of your logged in homepage and therefore won't see the issue.
Is right. Common Seymore lets not get into a junior level _______ contest here so lets not talk about years in the industry or accomplishments cause I can guarantee you there are people here who can out do you.
So let’s get to the bottom of this thread.
You posted originally because you had a problem with a new feature where there was an actual bug in the system. Thank you for bringing that bug to smugs attention as who knows how long it would have gone unreported. Thanks to your mentioning it, the bug was found, and fixed right away. Just one example of smugmug listening to its customers. Then let’s see, the smug islands, why, another example of smugmug listening to its customers (wow they really must not pay attention to your requests eh). Proof Delayed shipping (they listened), the new upload applications (why that’s listening to their customers again), switching to S3 and upgrading hardware when a customer announced there was going to be a HUGE upload of his photo's, Changing the titles on photos in the shopping cart when we didn't like how they were called a couple years ago, upgraded visitor stats, comment notification, Backprinting, Custom Watermarking, and I could go on but I'm at work right now and don't have that much time.
Your upset because not everything you have said you wanted got done right away. You’re upset because your opinions aren't treated as though they are absolutely the best thing since sliced bread. Well lets face it Seymore, Smug has a team that has developed it from a nothing company when .com's where dying, into a profitable, reliable, raved about .com. That alone, not to mention my examples show that they listen to their customers. No not everything we request is done as quickly as we would like (I'm still waiting on my photo packages Andy :dragon ) but if you know anything about software and website development you know that sometimes the things that look easiest are the most complicated to accomplish. After all one misplaced " in the code could shut everything down. Smug is a privately held company, they don't have to listen to their customers at all if they don't want to, instead they strive to offer the highest level of customer service as possible. What qualifies me to make these statements (seeing as you seem to like to know that). I am an IT director, software I have designed and worked on developing, a network I have completely designed and implemented, Updates and Upgrades I decide on and other the other responsibilities my job entails are responsible for running a multi-million dollar company that supports some of the biggest companies in the world (in industries like aerospace defense, the automotive world, government, manufacturing, etc). If that doesn't qualify me to understand the troubles smug faces nothing will.
I think you need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and look at the bigger picture. Smug has thousands of customers. They have to listen to everyone, take the suggestions that they feel will benefit the most amount of people, and then try to implement them in the best way possible with causing the least amount of down time to our sites. No one can make everyone happy all of the time, it's just not possible. But smug does it's best to accomplish that. And it is a privately held company, they do have competitors, and they aren’t holding you hostage. They even admit that they can’t be the one solution that everybody needs.
I am not an employee of smugmug, I am a volunteer who believes in their services and products so much that I give of my time to help them on this forum. I believe in their services so much I have two accounts with them. There are things I am not happy with, there are things that I love. If I’m not happy with something I talk to them about it and they work on a solution (with or without any further input from me). Some solutions happen right away, some solutions take longer. As an IT pro you should understand how things need to be prioritized and how not everyone see’s priorities in the same order. You see your requests as number one. But remember you are user 254 of 543,230 (figure made up in my head). Take a chill pill and look at the big picture and you should be able to understand this.
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Excellent idea!
A navigation button that appears on every page (perhaps call it "Jump To") would be excellent. It could be made available to both the site owner and end user (could be hidden by owner just like most other things).
And yes, PLEASE sort the gallery lists alphabetically everywhere they are displayed (including the move photos to gallery function).
Or something like that. Living in the UK away from family in the US, I'm finding that the maps feature is letting family live out my son's life more than just about anything else I've ever seen. They can see when pics were taken AND know exactly where. They can see the table we were sitting at when we fed the boy in Bath, UK. They can see the field where we were nuzzled by a half-dozen cute as heck, tiny horses. My family loves it. I know other people feel the same way about it.
If you don't like it, no sweat. Hidden! You don't even have to look at it at all if you don't want. How that could cause someone heartache is beyond me.
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Arguing on the net is dumb so im going to stop and say SM isnt always a pretty rainbow but they sure the heck beat out the sucktastic alternatives on the net.
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Seems someone isn't getting the bigger picture still. You may not want all of these changes, but many users do, and many users find them usefull. Again you are seeing a small cross section (a handfull really) and thinking that is all of smug's users. I don't know what user account level you have, but even with all of the changes for the most part you can still do the basic type stuff really easily. You don't have to get into the page custimization if you don't want to. They don't force people to do it.
But then again you sigend up with smugmug for a reason right. Otherwise you'd be using one of their lesser competitors.
You had one problem where you found a bug, smug thanked you, and fixed it right away. That right there is muting most of what you are saying. I don't know what bug you got this week, but your making claims based on the fact that your word isn't taken as god. Thats kinda reality though. 1 of thousands. Big picture.
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Smugmug should not have serious bugs in their new features. That is clearly their fault and they would agree with that in regards to this issue. That should not be an indictment againt evolving the site with new features, but rather should be an indictment of a weakness in their testing process that needs to get fixed.
On the other hand, there is no such thing as a service that you can freely customize with any random HTML and CSS that is 100% independent from the natural evolution of the site as they add new features. That is theoretically impossible. If they massively limited the kinds of customizations you could do (think about a limited number of checkboxes in a web form and no custom HTML or CSS), then it would be possible for them to do this, but when users have free reign to change the look of their site in any way possible as their heart desires, it is NOT possible for Smugmug to both deliver you new features and fully insulate you from the effects of those new features. They can try to be smart about how they change things to limit the effect as much as possible, but if they change one thing in the page, it will break someone who has done major customizations. That is just a fact of life.
So, there are only four possible stable points I know of:
1) Smugmug stops adding any new features. Your site never changes. You just stay happy with the features you have today, can customize the hell out of your site and are never forced to change anything. Of course when a competitive site rolls out some new feature that appeals to you, you won't have it here.
2) Don't customize your site or don't customize it beyond very simple things (this is the camp I'm currently in) so your site is not likely to break as it receives new features.
3) You go get your own hosting and run your own photo software (like coppermine) and you only take upgrades/new features when you want to.
4) You go along for the ride with Smugmug. You regularly get new features. Smugmug improves its ability to communicate possible design effects on the site to its customers, improves its ability for customers to "beta" new revs before they go live and improves its testing process so fewer mistakes are made. If you do lots of customization, you will have to regularly modify some of those customizations. If you don't do lots of customization, it shouldn't be any work to stay current.
We all know that 1) won't work for Smugmug as a business. You have to evolve the feature set of the site or die.
Option 2) should work for anyone who chooses that.
Option 3) is always an option if you want to totally control your environment.
Option 4) is something that I think Smugmug should consider getting better at.
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Saying that thousands of people use it everyday doesnt make something good. Hundreds of thousands of people use myspace too & its terrible.
Im talking about sacrificing speed & responsiveness for a feature that is just so so right now. OK?
Mike, you of all people should know what im talking about.
http://photos.mikelanestudios.com/
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How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Not to those hundreds of thousands of people. That's kind of the point being
made here.
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We generally don't speak up because WE ARE the 'silent' majority:D
Generally we see no need to voice our opinion because we are content with it, and maybe we don't want to extend what maybe we see as a pointless thread any further. Maybe our perspective on life is just different to yours.
It is not SAD.
May you have some peace soon:D
Caroline
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As a software developer, I learned long ago that it's better to spell things out so even the most non-computer person will get it. I don't think "Add Content" would be clear enough (many people wouldn't realize that you'd be able to create a new gallery with such a button).
After reading this whole thread, I think the "Add Photos" button issue could be improved like this:
1. Make it more descriptive: "Add Photos or Gallery"
2. Add a down-arrow or an ellipse at the end to indicate that more follows: "Add Photos or Gallery v" or "Add Photos or Gallery..."
3. Make the pop-down menu appear as soon as the mouse hovers over the button instead of waiting for a click (thus saving the initial click).
I hadn't even noticed the change on the home page since I haven't added any new galleries lately, but I must admit I probably would've been confused looking for the "new gallery" button if I hadn't read this thread! Doubtful it would've occurred to me to use the "add photos" button to add a new gallery. So, a better description for that button would definitely help.
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Agreed. Assumptions that users will "get it" cause far more problems than they are worth. From the comments by employees here, it seems that non-computer users are their primary audience, so yes, it definitely needs to be spelled out.
I think both of these are necessary.
On hover popovers in things that arnt obviously navigation bars are annoying. Hell, they are annoying even in a nav bar. My mouse has buttons to indicate that i want an object to perform an action. Moving the mouse around the screen should not trigger any interface (photobar...). Im not too worried about the extra click.
-r
Previously, SmugMuggers needed to know that in order to add photos, they had to first create a gallery. So, it made perfect sense to make "new gallery" and "add photos" two distinct functions. As Ben pointed out, there was major confusion on this point. It seemed nobody wanted to click that "new gallery" button, because what they REALLY wanted to do was just put their photos on SmugMug to share.
So I'd like to know, how often do SmugMuggers create a gallery for a reason other than adding photos?
When I log in to SmugMug with fresh photos I do the following:
1) Say to myself: "Ah, I'd like to add these photos to my SmugMug site".
2) Look for an "add photos" button (now available on any page).
3) Then, I need to decide whether I want to add photos to an existing gallery or create a new gallery for these photos. One click, and I've made my choice.
Creating a gallery is the means to an end. The way I see it, the whole reason you're creating a gallery is because you'd like to "add photos". Prior to this change, we already took you straight to the uploader of choice immediately after creating a new gallery.
In my mind, it's similar to the "buy this photo" button. That button actually only adds the photo to the cart, because buying it entails selecting shipping, entering billing information, confirming the order etc. But you click "buy this photo" because you'd like to purchase the photo.
I click "add photos" because that's what I'd like to do... add photos, even if I need to create a new gallery to do it!
Am I missing something? It seems to me like this is a change that'll take our existing SmugMug customers a few minutes (days maybe?) to adjust to, but it speeds up the process without significantly changing the way things work.
And for new customers, and old customers who think like I do, we can now "add photos" easily from anywhere.
-Anne
understandable. Could even add category and sub-cat there
which are buried in the control panel now.
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Sounds right to me and pretty much describes my approach to Smugmug
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Anne, I don't think this whole issue is all that big a deal, but you are oversimplifying the use cases that should be considered in a design. You are only describing some of the use cases. Here are all the use cases I see:
- New user with no galleries wants to add some photos to their site
- New user with a few galleries wants to add some photos to their site and will want them in a new gallery
- User wants to add photos to an exisiting gallery
- User wants to create a gallery and configure it's settings in advance of adding any photos (something all users who want protection or security on their images will do)
- User wants to create several galleries (e.g. all the galleries for a specific event) and configure their settings before starting any uploads.
- User who never adds photos through Smugmug's HTML pages because they use a third party uploader and thus all they do in Smugmug's interface in this regard is create galleries
You have optimized the design for use cases 1-3. You've made it slightly less intuitive and, in some cases, a few more clicks for use cases 4-6 by taking the creating gallery function out of the top level. Whether you did this knowingly or not, you should not be surprised if people who primarily fall into use cases 4-6 like the new UI less than the old UI.You are correct that everyone can do what they want and everyone in use cases 4-6 can adapt even if it's an extra click or two. You (Smugmug) just have to be sure you have the right usability trade-off (you did force a trade-off with this design change) for your customer base as a whole. And, you shouldn't be surprised, offended or defensive when people who fall into use cases 4-6 like the new design less. You have slightly compromised their experience in favor of the other use cases.
I personally fall into use case 6 (I use StarExplorer), but the extra click to add a gallery is not a big deal to me.
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