Isn't there growing evidence that all the cholesterol concerns are just a bunch of hooey to begin with?
linky? That sounds like Weston A. Price nonsense to me. The research is quite clear that blood cholesterol is an exteremely good predictor of not only heart disease but also lots of different cancers.
Y'all don't want to hear me, you just want to dance.
linky? That sounds like Weston A. Price nonsense to me. The research is quite clear that blood cholesterol is an exteremely good predictor of not only heart disease but also lots of different cancers.
I don't. I know that WAP has been on that for a while. And I know that Michael Pollan has been questioning the evidence about cholesterol reduction and morbidity, but I don't really have anything solid, which is why I'm asking.
I don't. I know that WAP has been on that for a while. And I know that Michael Pollan has been questioning the evidence about cholesterol reduction and morbidity, but I don't really have anything solid, which is why I'm asking.
The one thing that I am pretty certain about is that none of the evidence is clear cut and straight forward. Add to that that evidence needs to be interpreted, and you compound the situation with the interpretation being done by special interest groups. (I've been in the room when grant apps are being dreamt up!)
There is a mutation that causes excess production of blood cholesterol, and increased frequency of plaques on arteries. In people with this mutation, dietary cholesterol adds to the plaques. These people have family history of heart disease and death due to it.
For the rest of the population, I do not think there is strong evidence one way or the other.
For every study that points to one cause for cancer there is another that disputes it. I actually believe that we should rename the diseases that are currently named 'cancer', because they are all so different from one another that calling them one name has people believing that the whole category can be 'cured' through some wonder treatment.
linky? That sounds like Weston A. Price nonsense to me. The research is quite clear that blood cholesterol is an exteremely good predictor of not only heart disease but also lots of different cancers.
The debate is whether cholesterol in food (eggs, for example) has any relation to cholesterol in the blood.
Thanks for the link - interesting read. Glad that Michael Pollan is a better writer than the transcript shows. Good info though, and I buy his arguments.
Isn't there growing evidence that all the cholesterol concerns are just a bunch of hooey to begin with?
I've got high cholesterol (for many years) and attempted to educate myself at various times on the topic. Some things are clear. Some things are not so clear. Even in the area of things that are not so clear, there seem like obvious things you should do.
What I think is ridiculously clear is that if you have lots of plaque building up in your arteries, then you have a much, much higher risk of either a blockage or a clot that gets loose which then leads to a blockage. A blockage near the heart causes a heart attack. A blockage in the brain causes a stroke. As part of my insurance-mandated health training for someone with high cholesterol, I've watched a movie that shows plaque-clogged arteries. It's scary stuff. It's like seriously clogged plumbing and you can see why this stuff is serious.
Here are some diagrams:
So, then the question is what causes you to have plaque build-ups on the inside of your arteries. When they analyze the plaque, they see that it is composed of cholesterol, other fatty substances, fiber and calcium.
Your body produces cholesterol in the liver and it's the most common steroid in the body. Cholesterol is a building block for cell membranes and it is essential in the formation of bile (which aids in the digestion of fats), vitamin D, and other steroids and hormones (e.g., progesterone, estrogen, testosterone). It circulates in your blood in order to do it's function.
There are two kinds of cholesterol, HDL and LDL (high and low density lipoprotein). HDL is often called the good cholesterol and LDL is often called the bad cholesterol.
Here's where the perfect scientific understanding seems to start to wane and we get more into probability of disease. It is believed that high levels of LDL in your blood contribute to plaque building faster in your arteries. It is believed that high levels of HDL help protect you from various heart disease issues because HDL somehow helps carry excess cholesterol from the blood stream back to the liver where the body can get rid of it thus slowing the rate of plaque build-up.
There seem to be pretty good studies that show that a higher level of LDL in the blood and a lower level of HDL in the blood correlate pretty well with your risk of heart disease. People with bad cholesterol numbers are more likely to suffer from heart disease. It is believed that the mechanism that leads to this is faster build-up of plaque in your arteries where eventually it interferes with blood flow in a harmful way.
So, how do you influence your LDL to be lower and your HDL to be higher? Some people have a genetic predisposition to have a higher LDL. This doesn't mean that they can't influence it to be lower, but it means that all other things being equal, they're going to have a higher LDL value.
Things that can raise your LDL:
Excess body weight
Consumption of saturated fat
Stress
Lack of exercise
And, the converse - things that can lower your LDL:
Exercise
Losing weight
Consuming less saturated fat
Increasing the consumption of certain foods such at oat bran and other sources of beneficial fiber
Statin drugs
I don't remember the details of HDL, except that you can raise your HDL (a good thing) by exercising more.
In my particular case, I was diagnosed many years ago with a high cholesterol level (total cholesterol >300 with a lousy ratio of LDL to HDL). I went on a crash program to eliminate all fat from my diet and get lots of exercise (both of which caused me to lose lots of weight too). After six months on that program and running 6-8 miles a day, my total cholesterol was reduced to 160. I know that diet and exercise do influence my cholesterol level significantly. I've proven that to myself and to my doctor. Now, in my case, neither the diet I was on at the time or the level of exercise was something I could sustain for long periods of time, particularly when I got back into my next startup company. So, still doing as much as I could in that direction, I ended up deciding to take a statin to help reduce my cholesterol level while still doing as much as I can in the other areas.
One of the really nice things about TCS and ETL is that most saturated fat comes from animals so switching to a plant-based diet automatically eliminates a ton of saturated fat.
It has never been clear to me whether cholesterol that you consume in your food has really been proven to influence the cholesterol levels in your blood in an unfavorable way. I've always believed that it was a likely possibility, but never been sure. But, some of the biggest sources of dietary cholesterol are meat, eggs and certain kinds of shellfish.
One of the things that makes TCS and ETL even more powerful for me besides the cancer benefit is that it's also the right thing to do for improving your cholesterol profile. I haven't yet had my cholesterol measured on the new ETL diet.
According to Colin Campbell, a doctor can't tell how much cholesterol you've been eating by the amount of cholesterol in your blood. The body's process of making cholesterol is quite complex. He appears to have no argument that the link between dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol is a complicated topic. What he does say is this:
Several studies have now shown, in both experimental animals and in humans, that consuming animal-based protein increases blood cholesterol levels. Saturated fat and dietary cholesterol also raise blood cholesterol, although these nutrients are not as effective at doing this as is animal protein. In contrast, plant-based foods contain no cholesterol and, in various other ways, help to decrease the amount of cholesterol made by the body.
...
Animal protein consumption by men [in the Cornell-Oxford-China Project] was associated with increasing levels of "bad" cholesterol, whereas plant protein consumption was associated with decreasing levels of this same cholesterol.
The increase in bad cholesterol due to animal protein was given a superscript III which means they are 99.9% sure of that. The decrease in bad cholesterol due to plants was given a superscript II which indicates they are 99% sure of that.
John, he also mentions this is not common knowledge for people or doctors which explains why animal protein consumption did not show up in your post.
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Runner's World said that? Good! I had to drop Men's Health after I realized just how much of a meat bonanza they try to throw on their readers. Runner's World doesn't (yet?) seem to do that which is good.
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BaldyRegistered Users, Super ModeratorsPosts: 2,853moderator
edited February 14, 2008
I think there are a few very intriguing, simple observations:
1. No one seems to have observed coronary disease in people with total cholesterol of less than 150. The leading lights of the field have been on the lookout for a case like that but so far none seem to have been found.
Above that, it gets all complicated about LDL, HDL, triglycerides, c-reactive protein, ratios, % blockage, etc. 2.3 million Americans die each year of heart disease with a total between 150 and 200.
2. The more high-nutrient whole plants you consume, the closer to 150 you get, or below--especially vegetables, especially leafy greens. All sorts of animal and plant-based foods drive the number up, including, it seems, diet soda.
3. There is no easy way. The meds are turning out to have a low success rate at best. The knife provides temporary unclogging, and only around your heart. They both have nasty side effects.
4. The very same diet and lifestyle that protects against heart disease protects against the other chronic diseases like cancer, diabetes, and alzheimers.
I think there are a few very intriguing, simple observations:
1. No one seems to have observed coronary disease in people with total cholesterol of less than 150. The leading lights of the field have been on the lookout for a case like that but so far none seem to have been found.
Above that, it gets all complicated about LDL, HDL, triglycerides, c-reactive protein, ratios, % blockage, etc. 2.3 million Americans die each year of heart disease with a total between 150 and 200.
2. The more high-nutrient whole plants you consume, the closer to 150 you get, or below--especially vegetables, especially leafy greens. All sorts of animal and plant-based foods drive the number up, including, it seems, diet soda.
3. There is no easy way. The meds are turning out to have a low success rate at best. The knife provides temporary unclogging, and only around your heart. They both have nasty side effects.
4. The very same diet and lifestyle that protects against heart disease protects against the other chronic diseases like cancer, diabetes, and alzheimers.
I think there are a few very intriguing, simple observations:
1. No one seems to have observed coronary disease in people with total cholesterol of less than 150. The leading lights of the field have been on the lookout for a case like that but so far none seem to have been found.
Above that, it gets all complicated about LDL, HDL, triglycerides, c-reactive protein, ratios, % blockage, etc. 2.3 million Americans die each year of heart disease with a total between 150 and 200.
2. The more high-nutrient whole plants you consume, the closer to 150 you get, or below--especially vegetables, especially leafy greens. All sorts of animal and plant-based foods drive the number up, including, it seems, diet soda.
3. There is no easy way. The meds are turning out to have a low success rate at best. The knife provides temporary unclogging, and only around your heart. They both have nasty side effects.
4. The very same diet and lifestyle that protects against heart disease protects against the other chronic diseases like cancer, diabetes, and alzheimers.
Makes common sense to me. Do you have any good articles to point to about the data on people with total levels below 150 and those with it in the 150-200 range and or the link to diet soda? I'd like to read some of the recent info myself.
Makes common sense to me. Do you have any good articles to point to about the data on people with total levels below 150 and those with it in the 150-200 range and or the link to diet soda? I'd like to read some of the recent info myself.
I haven't heard of this with diet soda, but actually my stepfather told us about it happening with decaf coffee. He used to consume gallons of decaf every day and when he read the study and cut that out of his diet, his cholesterol dropped something like 20-30 points? I'll have to ask again, and get that article.
The cholesterol of 150 is extremely well established. Here are some quotes:
“We’ve never had a heart attack in Framingham in 35 years in anyone who had a cholesterol level under 150...Three-quarters of the people who live on the face of this Earth never have a heart attack. They live in Asia, Africa, and South America, and their cholesterols are all around 150.” -- Dr. William Castelli, Medical Director of the Framingham Cardiovascular Institute in Massachusetts; Harvard Medical School.
“There are few guarantees in life, but having a blood cholesterol level of less than 150 is probably the closest you can get to a guarantee that you will not be troubled with heart disease. One of the more interesting findings from the Framingham Heart Study is that no one in the history of the study has ever had a heart attack whose blood cholesterol was less than 150. If you can get your cholesterol under 150 you don’t even have to concern yourself with the further breakdown of ‘good’ and ‘bad’ cholesterol analysis.” Kitty Gurkin Rosati, M.S., R.D., L.D.N. Author of Heal Your Heart.
"Total cholesterol below 150 mg/dL makes you essentially heart attack proof." Caldwell Esselstyn, former head of the prestigious Cleveland Clinic and author of Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease (Good book, I read it.)
I used Amazon's Search Inside feature to rip off a chart from this book:
I don't care for the taste of meat, which drives much of my avoidance of it. But while I take great care to avoid it, I try not to be a PITA about it either - for instance, if I'm a guest in someone's home I avoid large chunks of meat but won't bug over meat ingredients in side dishes or whatnot. If there is no avoiding it, I take the obligatory few bites.
Years ago a new neighbor invited us over for dinner. There I learned that he was a hunter, and his most recent catch was on the menu. We ate bison chili. I couldn't avoid it without being overtly rude, which isn't my style. It was actually pretty tasty! I ate about half a bowl before I got to a point I couldn't eat any more, but my husband ate three servings. Not too bad, that bison. Is there a particular reason you only eat bison sausage? And what exactly is sausage, what part of the bison?
I don't know much about the names of meat, where they come from or what animals they come from. We didn't really eat it growing up.
I too am a hunter or maybe I should say was a hunter....haven't had the time......Bison is what most affectionately call Buffalo.....the reason I only eat Bison Sausage is simply due to the fact that I try not to eat any pork, as all the pork I see is so full of fat.....also Most of the Bison here in KS is organically raised, meaning no steriods or antibiotics or chemicals in the feed, most are grass fed and hayed in the winter all natural native from other parts of the same farm.....also Bison is a very dry meat, not hardly any fat in it, much healthier than any store bought meat.....I will however indulge in Vension (Bambi) and other wild meats that are not commerically raised but are actually wild and I was glad to see that Dr. Furhman acknowledge the fact that wild is much better than anything store bought and that he suggests farm raised fish over fish from polluted lakes and such.......
For a long time I always ask (guests or if I am taking a dish to someones home for a pot luck or whatever) if they are or anyone there will be vegatarian or vegan......... that way I can weither change my reciepe or label waht i take......my ex-boss (from WSU), his wife is vegatarian and almost got into a crock pot of Venision chili I had made for a group fo mimes we had appearing a few years ago.....since they were trhere for 3 days I made it 2 days and on the 3rd changed to a vegatarian chili which was the same except I used beef flavored TVP grainules and no one knew it wasn't beef until they say my boss's wife chowing down.......
The boss's wife told me she had not had any red meat in so long that she got very ill from a single hamburgar while on a trip for the company she works for......
I guess if your body has gotten used to no meat then having some can be disastrous.......so when in doubt I make Tabouli Salad and let it go at that (love that stuff almost as much as Justin Wilson's Seafood Jambalaya )......
Well I am out of red rice and need to get across town so I can fix my lunch for tomorrow........
For me red rice is easier on my blood sugar than white (of course....and not sure ifthey still use lye to bleach it or not or brown rice) ....not really that much different than brown in taste....think I amy pick up some black rice also........
You could do that. It would be a different soup, is all. I've always juiced the carrots and celery, and I look at it as a way to make the water needed for the recipe more nutritious. If you add more veggies, you need more water. It probably doesn't matter much in the long run, but I'll say this: the recipe already makes a boatload of soup. I couldn't fit all the celery and carrots in my pot if I were to try your idea. I use a 12 quart pot that is just barely, by 1/4" big enough for this stuff. You'll have to adjust the recipe to fit your pot.
I made my first batch of the soup. Since I don't have the juicer, I bought carrot juice at Whole Foods and blended the raw celery with a little water (it made a celery slurry) and used those. The soup was good, but in my opinion, had a little too much of a celery taste. Perhaps that's because of the celery pulp - I don't know.
We also found the soup in need of some spices. I think we'll try some different spices in each leftover batch. I have a giant pot and it did make a ton.
I used beans (the recipe says you can choose beans or split peas) and the beans seemed a little out of place. I think I'd use split peas next time.
The only disappointment was that my picky 10 year-old had one taste and wouldn't eat any more. My 14 year old ate it up.
I made my first batch of the soup. Since I don't have the juicer, I bought carrot juice at Whole Foods and blended the raw celery with a little water (it made a celery slurry) and used those. The soup was good, but in my opinion, had a little too much of a celery taste. Perhaps that's because of the celery pulp - I don't know.
We also found the soup in need of some spices. I think we'll try some different spices in each leftover batch. I have a giant pot and it did make a ton.
I used beans (the recipe says you can choose beans or split peas) and the beans seemed a little out of place. I think I'd use split peas next time.
The only disappointment was that my picky 10 year-old had one taste and wouldn't eat any more. My 14 year old ate it up.
It's great with curry powder in it. I like the split peas a lot. I also like the adzuki beans, they're small, as well. I never taste celery specifically, so maybe it is the pulp.
Acorn Squash
I have always liked squash.. I just hated opening it up since I always feel like I'm going to lose a finger or something.
However, I discovered a trip this weekend and it just requires a trip to the hardware store.
Basically, put the squash on a dishtowel, set the knife on the squash, and just keep hitting the tip of the knife with the rubber mallet! Five seconds later, it was opened! :ivar This would work with a clever or even a pastry scrapper!
And what can you do after it's opened?
Remove the seeds, put it in a bowl, add about an inch of water, cover it plastic wrap, and nuke for about five minutes. Remove it from the dish and place it on a baking dish to finish it off.
I then added some flavors (i used about a teaspoon of maple syrup and some curry power for each one), brushed it around the edges, and stuck it under the broiler for a few minutes for the sugar to caramelize.
Basically, start to finish in about ten minutes! (and I still have all of my fingers!)
Baldy, not intending to be argumentative, and you know I'm enjoying my ETL regimen, but here you go:
Dam, this is frustrating. I just read this summary of "The Cholesterol Myths" (you can see an article on each point he makes) and am now officially confused and unsure what to believe.
Dam, this is frustrating. I just read this summary of "The Cholesterol Myths" (you can see an article on each point he makes) and am now officially confused and unsure what to believe.
Well, right away, points 3 and 5 are bunk. For good or ill, I lowered my total cholesterol from 216 to 166 in 6 months through diet alone. That's more than a few percent!
Yeah, Malcolm Kendrick, author of The Great Cholesterol Con, is an interesting character. Honestly, I'm at a loss with him.
First, I can't see that Switzerland has the highest in cholesterol of European countries
as he claimed or the lowest death from heart attacks, which he also claimed. He cites Who,
but here's Who's data on cholesterol levels:
And the Monica report he references clearly shows Italy and France have lower rates
of death from heart disease.
BaldyRegistered Users, Super ModeratorsPosts: 2,853moderator
edited February 15, 2008
Second, he didn't mention that no one can find coronary heart disease in people who have a total of less than 150. All his data was in the complicated zone where it's above that and so many factors then come to bear. If the Swiss did have the lowest rates of heart disease, are they fitter? Do they smoke less? Do they do more detection & surgical methods of prolonging life?
Third, right in the Monica report that he cites, is the disclaimer from Who that says despite their best efforts, data collection from cholesterol was so unreliable that they only published the total number. And when the total gets above 150, which all those countries have, ratios become important.
Fourth, throwing in Australian aboriginals is bizarre. I think everyone knows their health is appalling for everything from depression to alcohol abuse. Even Wikipedia reports that only 24% of their deaths are from circulatory disease, and a chunk of that is from rheumatic heart disease; their rate of rheumatic heart disease is 5-10 times higher than it is for the rest of the Australian population.
Fifth, the Who Monica report he cites doesn't have data for aboriginal cholesterol, so he got that data somewhere else and who knows how different the method of collection was. The Australian sources I read said health data other than cause of death is notoriously scarce for aboriginals.
Sixth, the one thing that unites almost all nutritional scientists is that eating vegetables and fruits lowers heart disease risk. And what's so plainly obvious to any of us who've increased our intake is that our cholesterol goes down. We don't need to sift through a Who report whose data collection methods we don't understand, and try to remove the effect different countries and cultures have on risk. We can collect our own data: eat veggies, watch your cholesterol go towards 150. See if you get a heart attack. I'm still waiting for a doctor to identify a case of coronary disease in a patient whose total is below 150. They've been searching for one for years.
More Questions About Soy
Ok, I've got a good grasp on the following principles:
- whole soy beans = good for you
- isolated soy protein - most likely bad for you
But I'm not sure how to classify soy products. I've seen a lot of negative comments about soy milk, but the label says it's made with whole soy beans. Is there another reason soy milk is bad for you? What about tofu?
I never liked veggie burgers and don't drink protein shakes, so I'm already avoiding the obvious to me bad forms of soy. But I do enjoy milk in my black tea and recently switched to soy milk. Is this really better?
Vitamin B12 and how do you get enough?
There seems to be a consensus that vitamin B12 is one thing that your body needs that you may not get enough of from today's store bought fruits, vegetables, nuts and grains (e.g. the vegan diet).
So, how do you all get enough B12? Buy foods fortified with it? Take a vitamin supplement? Think your current foods have enough? Not worrying about it?
Being that I've drank Coca-Cola EVERY day since I was about 13 until about 2 weeks ago (I'd go through a 12-pack every day and a half or so), I have essentially replaced that with Green tea. I also don't drink nearly as much. Probably not as addicted to caffeine, and it telling me I "need" to drink or eat something as often.
As far as cholesterol goes, I'm not so good with numbers and all the studies, but I can say that I'm pretty sure the grease-soaked buns I would eat daily on my double-bacon cheeseburgers was not good for me. Common sense tells me that after eating the fries, if the oils I wipe on my jeans stays wet and greasy for all eternity and doesn't come out in the washing machine...it's probably not going through my body real easily.
Also, you might want to look at who is funding the ink for the fancy charts of any study. It makes you wonder, many times.
I never liked veggie burgers and don't drink protein shakes, so I'm already avoiding the obvious to me bad forms of soy. But I do enjoy milk in my black tea and recently switched to soy milk. Is this really better?
I have always disliked veggie burgers, too. I am amazed how fast my tastes are changing. I had a veggieburger at the farmer's market last Saturday, and as I am typing this thinking about it, my mouth started watering. It was soooo good!
(I don't really know the answer to your question, but I wanted to throw that out there for you, too.)
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I don't. I know that WAP has been on that for a while. And I know that Michael Pollan has been questioning the evidence about cholesterol reduction and morbidity, but I don't really have anything solid, which is why I'm asking.
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The one thing that I am pretty certain about is that none of the evidence is clear cut and straight forward. Add to that that evidence needs to be interpreted, and you compound the situation with the interpretation being done by special interest groups. (I've been in the room when grant apps are being dreamt up!)
There is a mutation that causes excess production of blood cholesterol, and increased frequency of plaques on arteries. In people with this mutation, dietary cholesterol adds to the plaques. These people have family history of heart disease and death due to it.
For the rest of the population, I do not think there is strong evidence one way or the other.
For every study that points to one cause for cancer there is another that disputes it. I actually believe that we should rename the diseases that are currently named 'cancer', because they are all so different from one another that calling them one name has people believing that the whole category can be 'cured' through some wonder treatment.
Okay, off my soapbox........
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The debate is whether cholesterol in food (eggs, for example) has any relation to cholesterol in the blood.
Good interview this evening.
Thanks for the link - interesting read. Glad that Michael Pollan is a better writer than the transcript shows. Good info though, and I buy his arguments.
ann
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What I think is ridiculously clear is that if you have lots of plaque building up in your arteries, then you have a much, much higher risk of either a blockage or a clot that gets loose which then leads to a blockage. A blockage near the heart causes a heart attack. A blockage in the brain causes a stroke. As part of my insurance-mandated health training for someone with high cholesterol, I've watched a movie that shows plaque-clogged arteries. It's scary stuff. It's like seriously clogged plumbing and you can see why this stuff is serious.
Here are some diagrams:
So, then the question is what causes you to have plaque build-ups on the inside of your arteries. When they analyze the plaque, they see that it is composed of cholesterol, other fatty substances, fiber and calcium.
Your body produces cholesterol in the liver and it's the most common steroid in the body. Cholesterol is a building block for cell membranes and it is essential in the formation of bile (which aids in the digestion of fats), vitamin D, and other steroids and hormones (e.g., progesterone, estrogen, testosterone). It circulates in your blood in order to do it's function.
There are two kinds of cholesterol, HDL and LDL (high and low density lipoprotein). HDL is often called the good cholesterol and LDL is often called the bad cholesterol.
Here's where the perfect scientific understanding seems to start to wane and we get more into probability of disease. It is believed that high levels of LDL in your blood contribute to plaque building faster in your arteries. It is believed that high levels of HDL help protect you from various heart disease issues because HDL somehow helps carry excess cholesterol from the blood stream back to the liver where the body can get rid of it thus slowing the rate of plaque build-up.
There seem to be pretty good studies that show that a higher level of LDL in the blood and a lower level of HDL in the blood correlate pretty well with your risk of heart disease. People with bad cholesterol numbers are more likely to suffer from heart disease. It is believed that the mechanism that leads to this is faster build-up of plaque in your arteries where eventually it interferes with blood flow in a harmful way.
So, how do you influence your LDL to be lower and your HDL to be higher? Some people have a genetic predisposition to have a higher LDL. This doesn't mean that they can't influence it to be lower, but it means that all other things being equal, they're going to have a higher LDL value.
Things that can raise your LDL:
- Excess body weight
- Consumption of saturated fat
- Stress
- Lack of exercise
And, the converse - things that can lower your LDL:- Exercise
- Losing weight
- Consuming less saturated fat
- Increasing the consumption of certain foods such at oat bran and other sources of beneficial fiber
- Statin drugs
I don't remember the details of HDL, except that you can raise your HDL (a good thing) by exercising more.In my particular case, I was diagnosed many years ago with a high cholesterol level (total cholesterol >300 with a lousy ratio of LDL to HDL). I went on a crash program to eliminate all fat from my diet and get lots of exercise (both of which caused me to lose lots of weight too). After six months on that program and running 6-8 miles a day, my total cholesterol was reduced to 160. I know that diet and exercise do influence my cholesterol level significantly. I've proven that to myself and to my doctor. Now, in my case, neither the diet I was on at the time or the level of exercise was something I could sustain for long periods of time, particularly when I got back into my next startup company. So, still doing as much as I could in that direction, I ended up deciding to take a statin to help reduce my cholesterol level while still doing as much as I can in the other areas.
One of the really nice things about TCS and ETL is that most saturated fat comes from animals so switching to a plant-based diet automatically eliminates a ton of saturated fat.
It has never been clear to me whether cholesterol that you consume in your food has really been proven to influence the cholesterol levels in your blood in an unfavorable way. I've always believed that it was a likely possibility, but never been sure. But, some of the biggest sources of dietary cholesterol are meat, eggs and certain kinds of shellfish.
One of the things that makes TCS and ETL even more powerful for me besides the cancer benefit is that it's also the right thing to do for improving your cholesterol profile. I haven't yet had my cholesterol measured on the new ETL diet.
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The increase in bad cholesterol due to animal protein was given a superscript III which means they are 99.9% sure of that. The decrease in bad cholesterol due to plants was given a superscript II which indicates they are 99% sure of that.
John, he also mentions this is not common knowledge for people or doctors which explains why animal protein consumption did not show up in your post.
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"There is increasing evidence that dietary factors in plant-based diets are important in the prevention of chronic disease."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18237581
Comments and constructive critique always welcome!
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1. No one seems to have observed coronary disease in people with total cholesterol of less than 150. The leading lights of the field have been on the lookout for a case like that but so far none seem to have been found.
Above that, it gets all complicated about LDL, HDL, triglycerides, c-reactive protein, ratios, % blockage, etc. 2.3 million Americans die each year of heart disease with a total between 150 and 200.
2. The more high-nutrient whole plants you consume, the closer to 150 you get, or below--especially vegetables, especially leafy greens. All sorts of animal and plant-based foods drive the number up, including, it seems, diet soda.
3. There is no easy way. The meds are turning out to have a low success rate at best. The knife provides temporary unclogging, and only around your heart. They both have nasty side effects.
4. The very same diet and lifestyle that protects against heart disease protects against the other chronic diseases like cancer, diabetes, and alzheimers.
Excellent summary, Baldy, and well spoken.
ann
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Makes common sense to me. Do you have any good articles to point to about the data on people with total levels below 150 and those with it in the 150-200 range and or the link to diet soda? I'd like to read some of the recent info myself.
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I haven't heard of this with diet soda, but actually my stepfather told us about it happening with decaf coffee. He used to consume gallons of decaf every day and when he read the study and cut that out of his diet, his cholesterol dropped something like 20-30 points? I'll have to ask again, and get that article.
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The cholesterol of 150 is extremely well established. Here are some quotes:
“We’ve never had a heart attack in Framingham in 35 years in anyone who had a cholesterol level under 150...Three-quarters of the people who live on the face of this Earth never have a heart attack. They live in Asia, Africa, and South America, and their cholesterols are all around 150.” -- Dr. William Castelli, Medical Director of the Framingham Cardiovascular Institute in Massachusetts; Harvard Medical School.
“There are few guarantees in life, but having a blood cholesterol level of less than 150 is probably the closest you can get to a guarantee that you will not be troubled with heart disease. One of the more interesting findings from the Framingham Heart Study is that no one in the history of the study has ever had a heart attack whose blood cholesterol was less than 150. If you can get your cholesterol under 150 you don’t even have to concern yourself with the further breakdown of ‘good’ and ‘bad’ cholesterol analysis.” Kitty Gurkin Rosati, M.S., R.D., L.D.N. Author of Heal Your Heart.
"Total cholesterol below 150 mg/dL makes you essentially heart attack proof." Caldwell Esselstyn, former head of the prestigious Cleveland Clinic and author of Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease (Good book, I read it.)
I used Amazon's Search Inside feature to rip off a chart from this book:
So sue me.
I too am a hunter or maybe I should say was a hunter....haven't had the time......Bison is what most affectionately call Buffalo.....the reason I only eat Bison Sausage is simply due to the fact that I try not to eat any pork, as all the pork I see is so full of fat.....also Most of the Bison here in KS is organically raised, meaning no steriods or antibiotics or chemicals in the feed, most are grass fed and hayed in the winter all natural native from other parts of the same farm.....also Bison is a very dry meat, not hardly any fat in it, much healthier than any store bought meat.....I will however indulge in Vension (Bambi) and other wild meats that are not commerically raised but are actually wild and I was glad to see that Dr. Furhman acknowledge the fact that wild is much better than anything store bought and that he suggests farm raised fish over fish from polluted lakes and such.......
For a long time I always ask (guests or if I am taking a dish to someones home for a pot luck or whatever) if they are or anyone there will be vegatarian or vegan......... that way I can weither change my reciepe or label waht i take......my ex-boss (from WSU), his wife is vegatarian and almost got into a crock pot of Venision chili I had made for a group fo mimes we had appearing a few years ago.....since they were trhere for 3 days I made it 2 days and on the 3rd changed to a vegatarian chili which was the same except I used beef flavored TVP grainules and no one knew it wasn't beef until they say my boss's wife chowing down.......
The boss's wife told me she had not had any red meat in so long that she got very ill from a single hamburgar while on a trip for the company she works for......
I guess if your body has gotten used to no meat then having some can be disastrous.......so when in doubt I make Tabouli Salad and let it go at that (love that stuff almost as much as Justin Wilson's Seafood Jambalaya )......
Well I am out of red rice and need to get across town so I can fix my lunch for tomorrow........
For me red rice is easier on my blood sugar than white (of course....and not sure ifthey still use lye to bleach it or not or brown rice) ....not really that much different than brown in taste....think I amy pick up some black rice also........
Why isn't everyone drinking green tea?
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Baldy, not intending to be argumentative, and you know I'm enjoying my ETL regimen, but here you go:
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I made my first batch of the soup. Since I don't have the juicer, I bought carrot juice at Whole Foods and blended the raw celery with a little water (it made a celery slurry) and used those. The soup was good, but in my opinion, had a little too much of a celery taste. Perhaps that's because of the celery pulp - I don't know.
We also found the soup in need of some spices. I think we'll try some different spices in each leftover batch. I have a giant pot and it did make a ton.
I used beans (the recipe says you can choose beans or split peas) and the beans seemed a little out of place. I think I'd use split peas next time.
The only disappointment was that my picky 10 year-old had one taste and wouldn't eat any more. My 14 year old ate it up.
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It's great with curry powder in it. I like the split peas a lot. I also like the adzuki beans, they're small, as well. I never taste celery specifically, so maybe it is the pulp.
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I have always liked squash.. I just hated opening it up since I always feel like I'm going to lose a finger or something.
However, I discovered a trip this weekend and it just requires a trip to the hardware store.
Basically, put the squash on a dishtowel, set the knife on the squash, and just keep hitting the tip of the knife with the rubber mallet! Five seconds later, it was opened! :ivar This would work with a clever or even a pastry scrapper!
And what can you do after it's opened?
Remove the seeds, put it in a bowl, add about an inch of water, cover it plastic wrap, and nuke for about five minutes. Remove it from the dish and place it on a baking dish to finish it off.
I then added some flavors (i used about a teaspoon of maple syrup and some curry power for each one), brushed it around the edges, and stuck it under the broiler for a few minutes for the sugar to caramelize.
Basically, start to finish in about ten minutes!
(and I still have all of my fingers!)
And how did it taste? Yum.Yum.Yum!
Dam, this is frustrating. I just read this summary of "The Cholesterol Myths" (you can see an article on each point he makes) and am now officially confused and unsure what to believe.
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Well, right away, points 3 and 5 are bunk. For good or ill, I lowered my total cholesterol from 216 to 166 in 6 months through diet alone.
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First, I can't see that Switzerland has the highest in cholesterol of European countries
as he claimed or the lowest death from heart attacks, which he also claimed. He cites Who,
but here's Who's data on cholesterol levels:
And the Monica report he references clearly shows Italy and France have lower rates
of death from heart disease.
Third, right in the Monica report that he cites, is the disclaimer from Who that says despite their best efforts, data collection from cholesterol was so unreliable that they only published the total number. And when the total gets above 150, which all those countries have, ratios become important.
Fourth, throwing in Australian aboriginals is bizarre. I think everyone knows their health is appalling for everything from depression to alcohol abuse. Even Wikipedia reports that only 24% of their deaths are from circulatory disease, and a chunk of that is from rheumatic heart disease; their rate of rheumatic heart disease is 5-10 times higher than it is for the rest of the Australian population.
Fifth, the Who Monica report he cites doesn't have data for aboriginal cholesterol, so he got that data somewhere else and who knows how different the method of collection was. The Australian sources I read said health data other than cause of death is notoriously scarce for aboriginals.
Sixth, the one thing that unites almost all nutritional scientists is that eating vegetables and fruits lowers heart disease risk. And what's so plainly obvious to any of us who've increased our intake is that our cholesterol goes down. We don't need to sift through a Who report whose data collection methods we don't understand, and try to remove the effect different countries and cultures have on risk. We can collect our own data: eat veggies, watch your cholesterol go towards 150. See if you get a heart attack. I'm still waiting for a doctor to identify a case of coronary disease in a patient whose total is below 150. They've been searching for one for years.
Ok, I've got a good grasp on the following principles:
- whole soy beans = good for you
- isolated soy protein - most likely bad for you
But I'm not sure how to classify soy products. I've seen a lot of negative comments about soy milk, but the label says it's made with whole soy beans. Is there another reason soy milk is bad for you? What about tofu?
I never liked veggie burgers and don't drink protein shakes, so I'm already avoiding the obvious to me bad forms of soy. But I do enjoy milk in my black tea and recently switched to soy milk. Is this really better?
There seems to be a consensus that vitamin B12 is one thing that your body needs that you may not get enough of from today's store bought fruits, vegetables, nuts and grains (e.g. the vegan diet).
So, how do you all get enough B12? Buy foods fortified with it? Take a vitamin supplement? Think your current foods have enough? Not worrying about it?
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As far as cholesterol goes, I'm not so good with numbers and all the studies, but I can say that I'm pretty sure the grease-soaked buns I would eat daily on my double-bacon cheeseburgers was not good for me. Common sense tells me that after eating the fries, if the oils I wipe on my jeans stays wet and greasy for all eternity and doesn't come out in the washing machine...it's probably not going through my body real easily.
Also, you might want to look at who is funding the ink for the fancy charts of any study. It makes you wonder, many times.
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(I don't really know the answer to your question, but I wanted to throw that out there for you, too.)
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