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Andy's Un-Official Unsolicited Mac Advice Thread

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    SloYerRollSloYerRoll Registered Users Posts: 2,788 Major grins
    edited May 6, 2008
    cmason wrote:
    am told the Intel ones are far faster.
    I don't think they are faster per say. but software is optimized for the new (cheaper, as in more cost effective for Apple) chipset and will run faster due to configuration.
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    colourboxcolourbox Registered Users Posts: 2,095 Major grins
    edited May 6, 2008
    cmason wrote:
    I have no experience with the PowerPC machines, but am told the Intel ones are far faster.

    I think I've seen benchmarks that indicate that today's portable MacBook Pros outrun yesterday's top-of-the-line G5 multiprocessor towers. Based on that, it's likely that every single Intel Mac sold today, all the way down to the 1.83GHz dual-core CPU at the bottom of the line, can probably outrun a single-core G5 2.0GHz iMac.
    SloYerRoll wrote:
    2) Buy a real mac, deactivate the copy of OS X and install it on a PC

    ? There is no activation in OS X of the type seen in Windows.
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    ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,913 moderator
    edited May 6, 2008
    SloYerRoll wrote:
    The Apple EULA says that it's OS is only allowed to run on a certified Mac. But if your just doing it for research purposes..

    As a reminder, we're not here to interpret the Apple (or any other) EULA.
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
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    SloYerRollSloYerRoll Registered Users Posts: 2,788 Major grins
    edited May 6, 2008
    ian408 wrote:
    As a reminder, we're not here to interpret the Apple (or any other) EULA.
    Consider me reminded :D
    colourbox wrote:
    ? There is no activation in OS X of the type seen in Windows.
    This was put in italics since it was copied from a wiki article. I just copy/pasted it after the fact since I thought it might be helpful. Original post updated.
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    ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,913 moderator
    edited May 6, 2008
    Anybody know if it's possible to buy the Apple bluetooth/wifi card separately?

    I suppose I could haul my mac pro down to Appleville but it would be a whole
    lot easier to bring the card home--but they say they want to install it :(
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
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    DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited May 6, 2008
    ian408 wrote:
    Anybody know if it's possible to buy the Apple bluetooth/wifi card separately?

    I suppose I could haul my mac pro down to Appleville but it would be a whole
    lot easier to bring the card home--but they say they want to install it :(


    Neither are user installable parts on that machine.

    You can get a USB bluetooth dongle. You can do everything but wake from sleep with that. Costs you $20.

    Wifi, I would get airport express and hook up via ethernet from your MP.
    Moderator Emeritus
    Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
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    ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,913 moderator
    edited May 6, 2008
    DavidTO wrote:
    Neither are user installable parts on that machine.

    You can get a USB bluetooth dongle. You can do everything but wake from sleep with that. Costs you $20.

    Wifi, I would get airport express and hook up via ethernet from your MP.
    Thanks.

    Can two express devices communicate peer to peer?
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
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    SystemSystem Registered Users Posts: 8,186 moderator
    edited May 6, 2008
    got my Imac today
    ian408 wrote:
    As a reminder, we're not here to interpret the Apple (or any other) EULA.


    Well, i broke down and just went and purchases a new Imac 2.0 Ghz intel core 2 duo with 2 gb ram.
    coming from the pc world, I feel a little lost, but mostly liberated. This thing rocks!!!!!!thumb.gif
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    cmasoncmason Registered Users Posts: 2,506 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    barrotj wrote:
    Well, i broke down and just went and purchases a new Imac 2.0 Ghz intel core 2 duo with 2 gb ram.
    coming from the pc world, I feel a little lost, but mostly liberated. This thing rocks!!!!!!thumb.gif

    Good choice on the Intel. I have been enjoying my Mac now for almost 3 weeks. I was familiar with Macs before, though OS X is new to me. The apps themselves are not much different, so there is little change there. I was able to copy over my Firefox profile, including all the add-ons, so FF is identical in look and function as it was in the PC. Lightroom catalog came over just fine, and iTunes was a mess, but I got it moved.

    Obviously, when moving from a 5 yr old PC to a modern Core2Duo with 3GB of memory, the new PC (Win or Mac) is going to be a great experience. So I can not attribute that much to the Mac being a better machine, because anything is better than the old AMD Athlon I had. But, the Mac is quiet and 'well behaved' in that it goes to sleep and wakes without fuss, restarts are quick. The monitor is stunning.

    I think software updates and printer drivers between Windows and Mac are both quite seamless, the only real difference is that the Mac doesn't expose the details of what is going on as does Windows. Plugging in a new printer to both Vista and Mac both automatically add the new printer without any input from the user. Windows shows you the progress, tells you what files are going where, and pops up a print test page option. Mac doesn't tell the user anything, in fact I had to check to see if the printer was installed. Different approaches, both with same result. Mac isn't better or easier in this regard, it is just different. I prefer the Mac approach in the end. I certainly appreciate the lack of a Registry when it comes to adding or removing software. Though some apps do sprinkle files around the system, most don't, so removing an app is a simple drag to the trash can. This is not the case with all apps, and removing them is messy as it is in Windows.

    Mac OS X appears quite stable. It seems to recover memory well, unlike Windows which over time seems to grow in memory consumption, and therefore benefiting from a restart. This fine memory management and the Mac's fine Sleep capability allow me to run OS X longer than I could Windows. Apps do crash in OS X, in my case, Dashboard crashes about once a day. But, it simply recovers and aside from an alert, I don't notice.

    I love the handling of harddrives, with the simply mount/unmount capability of Unix..othewise known as Eject in the Mac. Brilliant.

    I am doing a trial of VMWare Fusion, and it rocks. I have not tried Parallels to compare, but I no longer need the critical feature in Parallels that allows me to launch an app from Mac into Windows based on file type. It is really cool to have Windows running on the Mac, and file sharing, even cut and paste is seamless between the too. Cool.

    Time Machine is well done, and for the record, I like the 'space theme'. I bought a 500GB firewire hard drive, and it works very well. One day I will really need it, and then we will see if I feel the same way. It is reassuring to know that backups are happening across the entire system.

    Some things I don't care for on the Mac: infatuation with the keyboard. I got used to doing nearly everything with a mouse alone in Windows. There was no reason to touch the keyboard, everything was a click or right click away. With Mac, you have to do key+click combinations to get nearly any app to work. Recommendation: turn on the right click as secondary mouse button in system preferences. The switch will be alot better when you do.

    Having the menus disassociated from the window is very odd. I like the windows centered, but then to select any preference or other option, I have to mouse waaaaayyy over to the left to make choices or shutdown the app. Strange. I think I have covered more 'mouse miles' in the Mac in three weeks than I have in years on the PC. Obviously if you want to do multi-key presses and clicks, things get easier, but I just don't work that way. (I bet long time Mac users are really good at things like Vulcan salutes, what with all the 3 finger key sequences most apps want you to do :D ).

    Networking with PCs is not as great an experience as I have heard. While I can access my PCs, I get the 'beachball' quite often, with no real way to stop it and little info other than 'Connection with server failed". Connecting to another PC requires the use of SMB connections, which isn't intuative. But, it works, eventually.

    Print sharing with PCs has been a mess, getting the PCs in the house to print thru the printer attached to the Mac. Once i got it to work, the results are not as expected: papers print in purple color, not black, and there are connection issues. At the moment, I just network to the PC (see above), grab the doc, and print from the Mac. A wireless print server is on order, and hopefully that will solve the issues.

    Overall, I am very pleased with the Mac. I like the stability, and the simplicity of the OS, but with options for running Windows and even futzing in UNIX commands. I think that if I had all Macs in the house, networking and print sharing issues would disappear, but that won't happen for several years, if at all.
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    SystemSystem Registered Users Posts: 8,186 moderator
    edited May 7, 2008
    cmason wrote:
    Obviously, when moving from a 5 yr old PC to a modern Core2Duo with 3GB of memory, the new PC (Win or Mac) is going to be a great experience. So I can not attribute that much to the Mac being a better machine, because anything is better than the old AMD Athlon I had. But, the Mac is quiet and 'well behaved' in that it goes to sleep and wakes without fuss, restarts are quick. The monitor is stunning.

    My machine was/is a 3 yr old AMD Athlon that I couldn't use a baseball bat to get it out of sleep, took forever to shut down or reboot (literally it took 3 hours one day, hence my new purchase)
    cmason wrote:
    Mac OS X appears quite stable. It seems to recover memory well, unlike Windows which over time seems to grow in memory consumption, and therefore benefiting from a restart. This fine memory management and the Mac's fine Sleep capability allow me to run OS X longer than I could Windows. Apps do crash in OS X, in my case, Dashboard crashes about once a day. But, it simply recovers and aside from an alert, I don't notice.

    anything along this line has to be an improvement!clap.gif
    cmason wrote:
    I love the handling of harddrives, with the simply mount/unmount capability of Unix..othewise known as Eject in the Mac. Brilliant.

    15524779-Ti.gif
    cmason wrote:
    Time Machine is well done, and for the record, I like the 'space theme'. I bought a 500GB firewire hard drive, and it works very well. One day I will really need it, and then we will see if I feel the same way. It is reassuring to know that backups are happening across the entire system.

    I have a 750gb my book and a 500gb both firewired. The mac operates them both seamlessly.
    cmason wrote:
    Print sharing with PCs has been a mess, getting the PCs in the house to print thru the printer attached to the Mac. Once i got it to work, the results are not as expected: papers print in purple color, not black, and there are connection issues. At the moment, I just network to the PC (see above), grab the doc, and print from the Mac. A wireless print server is on order, and hopefully that will solve the issues.

    My printer is wireless connected to a wireless LAN, not one issue with compatibility. the pc is hard wired with the lan cable and the mac ties in through the router.
    cmason wrote:
    Overall, I am very pleased with the Mac. I like the stability, and the simplicity of the OS, but with options for running Windows and even futzing in UNIX commands. I think that if I had all Macs in the house, networking and print sharing issues would disappear, but that won't happen for several years, if at all.

    I wont touch another pc if I can at all avoid it. MAC has won me over, although i have been awake 32 straight hours piddle farting around with everything though.

    Sad thing is, most people dont' realize the Ole Bill Gates is a 49 percent share holder of apple, so he wins no matter what happens. That's one smart man!bowdown.gifbowdown.gif
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    SloYerRollSloYerRoll Registered Users Posts: 2,788 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    barrotj wrote:
    My machine was/is a 3 yr old AMD Athlon that I couldn't use a baseball bat to get it out of sleep, took forever to shut down or reboot (literally it took 3 hours one day, hence my new purchase
    Holy crap! I'd have literally thrown that machine in a river after an hour :D

    Glad you like your Mac. But I think your statement about PC's should be geared more towards windows than PC's. There's allot of great OS's out there that meet and beat Mac in many ways that run on "PC's". deal.gif
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    CatOneCatOne Registered Users Posts: 957 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    SloYerRoll wrote:
    Holy crap! I'd have literally thrown that machine in a river after an hour :D

    Glad you like your Mac. But I think your statement about PC's should be geared more towards windows than PC's. There's allot of great OS's out there that meet and beat Mac in many ways that run on "PC's". deal.gif

    Uhhh...

    Such as?

    Don't tell me about Linux until you can show me a version that seamlessly works with wireless and can connect via 802.1X to WPA2 protected networks, and one that can reliably sleep/wake when you close and open the lid.

    Linux still can't do that, without tweaking many files and TONS of effort.
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    SloYerRollSloYerRoll Registered Users Posts: 2,788 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    CatOne wrote:
    Uhhh...

    Such as?

    Don't tell me about Linux until you can show me a version that seamlessly works with wireless and can connect via 802.1X to WPA2 protected networks, and one that can reliably sleep/wake when you close and open the lid.
    No offense intended. But your so blindly wrapped up in Mac that no matter what my reply is, you'll come up with some overpriced Mac equivalent.
    So it's not worth my time.

    Not to mention that WPA security is absolute overkill.
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    cmasoncmason Registered Users Posts: 2,506 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    SloYerRoll wrote:

    Not to mention that WPA security is absolute overkill.

    Not sure I understand this one? overkill vs what? Certainly you do not mean WEP, which is breakable in 20 sec?
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    SloYerRollSloYerRoll Registered Users Posts: 2,788 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    cmason wrote:
    Not sure I understand this one? overkill vs what? Certainly you do not mean WEP, which is breakable in 20 sec?
    I say that because we are talking about peoples home computers. Not corporate infrastructures or military secrets here. (*a computer deep in the underbelly of the govt spins for a moment then shuts back down)

    Not every computer has to be a vault. Sheesh.

    BTW:
    Can you break WEP in 20 seconds? Or is that just something you've read? If you can get your hands on the code to do it. Easy peasy. But that script isn't exactly sitting around in the Google archives.
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    StevenVStevenV Registered Users Posts: 1,174 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    How to crack WEP.

    I see two realistic choices for home wireless networks - either leave it completely open or do it right (i.e. not WEP). If you try to secure it but don't do a reasonable job, and get used by a neighbor for piracy or child porn, you can get in trouble. If you do nothing then (the theory goes) you're not culpable. But this should probably end up in it's own thread...
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    colourboxcolourbox Registered Users Posts: 2,095 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    Improved security is only one reason for WPA over WEP (though a damn good reason). The other reason is ease of use. I hate entering those long hexadecimal WEP passwords. WPA lets you use shorter, easier-to-remember passwords.

    Now, the ease of use of WPA leads to its one flaw. If you use a word or name that could appear in a dictionary, WPA could be cracked with a dictionary attack. But, that doesn't make it any worse than any other very secure password-based system. As long as you follow proper password procedures (sufficiently long and not found in any dictionary) WPA is essentially impregnable, especially for home users, and especially compared to how fast WEP can be cracked without a dictionary program.

    Think about it...given the choice between "insecure and difficult" (WEP) and "secure and easy" (WPA), why would anyone choose WEP?
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    ChrisJChrisJ Registered Users Posts: 2,164 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    As an admin, I would never use anything less than WPA (WPA2 if possible). However, if you secure your home network with WEP, you'll probably be safe... because odds are that your neighbor *isn't* using any encryption and the evil wardriver will use their network instead. Easier and faster...

    FYI: A weak WPA-PSK (pre-shared key) can also be cracked quickly now.
    Chris
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    cmasoncmason Registered Users Posts: 2,506 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    I don't want a vault, but I do want security. WEP is NOT security, not any longer. It may obscure access to your network, but not secure it. Obscurity is not Security.

    My neighbor's likely won't try to get to my network, but their teenager might. If I can follow the rules to break WEP, a teenager certainly can. Seeing the 'lock' on the neighbor's network is more of a challenge than a warning to a tean. What is a prank to a teenager is a pain and risk to me. I don't need it, and frankly choosing between WPA and WEP is a button I push in my router config. I choose WPA, because WEP is not security. Everything wireless I buy must support it, even my wireless print router.
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    ChrisJChrisJ Registered Users Posts: 2,164 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    Yeah, I agree to some extent. It's always a question of how paranoid you want to be. As I said, I would never use anything less than WPA. My printer also supports WPA (Canon iP5200R).
    Chris
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    SloYerRollSloYerRoll Registered Users Posts: 2,788 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    cmason wrote:
    Seeing the 'lock' on the neighbor's network is more of a challenge than a warning to a teen.
    Very true.
    All I was getting to was that security is relative.
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    SloYerRollSloYerRoll Registered Users Posts: 2,788 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    StevenV wrote:
    I stand corrected :D
    Been a while since I even bothered looking anything like that up.
    I only surf the web for two reasons nowdays: dgrin and research for webdev.
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    CatOneCatOne Registered Users Posts: 957 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    SloYerRoll wrote:
    No offense intended. But your so blindly wrapped up in Mac that no matter what my reply is, you'll come up with some overpriced Mac equivalent.
    So it's not worth my time.

    Not to mention that WPA security is absolute overkill.

    So we want to toil in the old pricing thing again? ne_nau.gif Look, price is close, but I'm not going to dicker over $100 here and there. For as much as I use a computer, that's like $0.1 cents/hour in difference over the life of the machine.

    As far as WPA security being overkill... right. It's absolutely more secure than WEP (which is broken, and it shouldn't take you more than 5 seconds with google to count 10 of the 100 ways). Why *wouldn't* you use WPA, given it's easy to use and secure, if it's an option? If you think it's unnecessary simply because Linux's support for it is flagging, that's a pretty myopic view.

    Linux has a number of good things going on it on the server side. Unfortunately, on the desktop side, and *particularly* on the laptop side, it has a few things fighting REALLY hard against it for mainstream use:

    1) Commercial application support (especially for photography) sucks. No Photoshop, no Lightroom, no Aperture, no "pretty much anything commercial." You can use GIMP and LightZone if you want... but don't try to print as you don't have any good drivers that are color matched and calibrated. It's tough for commercial vendors to actually build an application for Linux, given the fragmented distros and the difficulty of releasing a closed-source binary product for the OS. LightZone uses Java for this; it would be pretty tough to port Word or Photoshop to Java.

    2) Portable support just sucks. Instead of having 2 or 3 good distros where people work together on fixing the hard issues like sleep/wake or wireless security (which, because of the PC industry's nature, each have 50-60 chipsets that need to be supported, many of whom won't provide open source drivers), you have 100+ distros, with various compiler flags, that all have holes in the same areas. I have tried about 3x/year for the last 5 years to find a distro that would install and run properly on a laptop without me having to spend hours in Xconfigurator and all that... and still no dice. It shouldn't be that hard.

    There's more, but I don't feel like carrying on here.
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    colourboxcolourbox Registered Users Posts: 2,095 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    ChrisJ wrote:
    ...because odds are that your neighbor *isn't* using any encryption and the evil wardriver will use their network instead. Easier and faster...

    This is very true, it's like that old saying that you don't have to run faster than the bear, you just have to run faster than your companion. :heh

    But things have changed in my neighborhood. A few years ago, most networks were open (not mine). Today if you open a laptop in my living room, every last network in range is locked...apparently education has had an effect. Therefore, it is no longer enough to use WEP because nobody on this block has an open access point. On this street, if you want to be one level more secure than your neighbor to deflect the hackers away from you, you do need to be using WPA.
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    cmasoncmason Registered Users Posts: 2,506 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    colourbox wrote:
    This is very true, it's like that old saying that you don't have to run faster than the bear, you just have to run faster than your companion. :heh

    But things have changed in my neighborhood. A few years ago, most networks were open (not mine). Today if you open a laptop in my living room, every last network in range is locked...apparently education has had an effect. Therefore, it is no longer enough to use WEP because nobody on this block has an open access point. On this street, if you want to be one level more secure than your neighbor to deflect the hackers away from you, you do need to be using WPA.

    Well most routers now turn on encryption by default. Most even include wizards thata ask you to change your SSID and admin password too. Pretty cool.
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    SloYerRollSloYerRoll Registered Users Posts: 2,788 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    CatOne wrote:
    There's more, but I don't feel like carrying on here.
    I'm honestly not here to cary on the mac pc debate. I have an older G4 a new MacBook and about to get a MacBook Pro. So I'm not debating their goodness against a pc.

    I'm made a simple statement that was trying to correct one of the many misconceptions that there are two types of computers. PC's & Mac's.

    Simple as that.
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    SloYerRollSloYerRoll Registered Users Posts: 2,788 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    colourbox wrote:
    apparently education has had an effect. Therefore, it is no longer enough to use WEP because nobody on this block has an open access point. On this street, if you want to be one level more secure than your neighbor to deflect the hackers away from you, you do need to be using WPA.
    Agreeing w/ cmasons comment. I think to top it all off. Things like geek squad and services like that the come in and set up your network and all you have to do is sit there is a big contributor. They even wrap up the costs so you don't have to pay a dime and it all goes on a line of credit.

    Man it's easy to spend money nowdays.. :D
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    cmasoncmason Registered Users Posts: 2,506 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    SloYerRoll wrote:
    I'm honestly not here to cary on the mac pc debate. I have an older G4 a new MocBook and about to get a MacBook Pro. So I'm not debating their goodness against a pc.

    I'm made a simple statement that was trying to correct one of the many misconceptions that there are two types of computers. PC's & Mac's.

    Simple as that.


    Make that 2.5 types rolleyes1.gif


    Desktop Marketshare

    CFT0507_03113425599.gif

    http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=8&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=111&qpmr=100&qpdt=1&qpct=6


    Although Linux is more widespread than Windows NT:

    Desktop OS versions

    http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=10&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=111&qpmr=24&qpdt=1&qpct=6
    CFT0507_0313070CDE2.gif


    :D:D:D



    edit: gif links busted, click on the url
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    SloYerRollSloYerRoll Registered Users Posts: 2,788 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    cmason wrote:
    Make that 2.5 types rolleyes1.gif
    Good stuff thumb.gif
    I guess that goes to show that what people are exposed to is usually a minute fraction of the collective whole.

    It's pretty rare where I'm not tied into a *nix server a few times a day.
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    StevenVStevenV Registered Users Posts: 1,174 Major grins
    edited May 7, 2008
    who makes the MacIntel operating system?
    cmason wrote:

    Desktop OS versions
    CFT0507_0313070CDE2.gif

    What the heck?? This chart shows operating systems... and then some O/S I've never heard of with 4.59% of something. headscratch.gif
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