If you are in bright sun, drop your ISO down to 100/200.
You are incorrect with your Fstop statement. It's the opposite. A higher fstop number increases your depth of field.
In the condition you described. shooting Av at F4 and ISO 200 or round about should of offered better exposed photos.
I'll go against what Russ has said. Shooting manual is great once one learns all the adjustments. I recommend shooting in Av most of the time and reviewing the photos to get an idea of what looks good and putting that in your brains memory banks and trying those settings out in manual mode and adjust from there.
lots to comment on here and I want to again thank any and all input and additions to this thread from all the MX photogs.
my understanding is a higher fstop will increase the depth of field, but will it also "stretch" the focus?
example, I had a shot where the front wheel, forks, riders out stretched boot were crisp, helmet not so crisp.
I tend to stand VERY close to the action, and I'm wondering if I'm paying for that in terms of focus. Why else would a front fender be in focus and the riders helmet be out?
I can't shoot AV mode, the D300 only has A, S, M and P which is basically auto.
lots to comment on here and I want to again thank any and all input and additions to this thread from all the MX photogs.
my understanding is a higher fstop will increase the depth of field, but will it also "stretch" the focus?
example, I had a shot where the front wheel, forks, riders out stretched boot were crisp, helmet not so crisp.
I tend to stand VERY close to the action, and I'm wondering if I'm paying for that in terms of focus. Why else would a front fender be in focus and the riders helmet be out?
I can't shoot AV mode, the D300 only has A, S, M and P which is basically auto.
I think...
thanks again for all the input to everyone.
You have to find the happy median between shutter speed and aperature to get everything in focus. Shooting at F/10 like you were, causes the camera to need a longer shutter speed to get a proper exposure. When the subject is moving as fast as MX riders go, the odds of you being perfectly still and following the rider during the longer shutter speed is not that great.
If you shoot wide open with an aperature of F/2.8, you'll get extremely fast shutter speed because so much light is being let in. The problem shooting wide open is that most of the time the whole frame will not be in focus because pf the shallow depth of field. Only the areas closest to your chosen focus marker in your camera will be in focus. Especially if you are shooting very close to the riders.
Think of it like this, if you have a bucket of water and a glass of water and want to pour the water from each into a glass with no water in it. Which do you think will get you the most water in your glass? Pouring from the glass would because the opening is much smaller, thus less water can come out all at once. It will take longer to pour from the glass than the bucket, but you will yield better results from the glass. Now think of the bucket and glass as aperature. The bucket has a very large opening to allow the water to basically fall out. This is much like shooting wide open at F/2.8. The glass has a much smaller opening and will allow more water to stay in the glass being poured into. This is much like shooting at a small aperture like F/10. So, the smaller the aperature the more things will be in focus, as long as they aren't moving.
So, you need to find somewhere in the middle. Where you can get enough depth of field that the whole bike and rider are in focus and still get a fast enough shutter speed that you aren't panning and lessening your chances of a tack sharp photo. I try and shoot around 1/800 shutter speed and around F/5.6. I found that I have the most amount of keepers if I stay in this range. An 800 shutter speed is just slow enough that you can detect a little movement in the tires. That is good enough for me. Everyone has their own opinion on what picture looks better, one that shows alot of wheel spin, one that shows a little, and one that freezes the action. There is no right or wrong here. Just shoot for what YOU like.
I tend to stand VERY close to the action, and I'm wondering if I'm paying for that in terms of focus. Why else would a front fender be in focus and the riders helmet be out?
Do you want to get hit by a rider? All kidding aside, you need to make sure you are safe out there and not going to get hit by a rider. Get yourself some distance. On thing that always concerned me about motocross was the apparant lack of safety awareness by the participants and the organizers. Karts and cars, you are always kept far from the action, for good reason. Never cross a hot track. Etc. But motocross, all those rules seemed to just fly out the window. Oh well.
But back to the focus issue, the closer you are to a fast moving subject the harder the auto-focus will have to work. At some point it will just give up and start lagging the action. Back away from the action. You will be safe, AND your auto-focus will work better.
I can't shoot AV mode, the D300 only has A, S, M and P which is basically auto.
"A" is the same as Av. "S" is the same as Tv. Shoot in S mode, pic a shutter speed that will give the amount of motion blur you are interested in. My highest shutter speed was 1/640 and what I used most the time. In bright sun use a low ISO setting, like 100.
I have one rule of thumb if they are looking at me when I am taking a picture it usually means i better get my ass out of the way.
Had that happen 3 times this year already.
www.rmwphoto.ca
Canon XSI
18-55 AF IS
55-250 AF IS
Canon 430 EXII Flash
This pic is about a year old before I really knew what I was doing, but this kid came up the face of the jump sideways and jumped right at me. I stayed put just long enough to get the shot then jumped like hell of the side of the jump!! I was really that close too. This was not a big zoom lens. The exif shows this was shot at 44mm Oh BTW, he did wad it up right where I was standing.
I think by now you realize you need to stay away and be safe. I've had a close call or two. So have many others. You WILL get hit if you keep shooting that close to the action. Its just a matter of when.
I hate to say it, but this is one reason why I stopped shooting MX. When I was shooting karts I would get forcibly reminded if I strayed somewhere that was not safe. I was always kept far from the racing line, behind barriers, etc. Safety in karting, both when I was racing karts and also when photographing karts. Ditto with cars. Last weekend I practiced some car shots at a nearby track and was told in no uncertain terms where I could go and could not, how far from the track I needed to be, etc. But in MX safety just seems, well, like a good idea that people pay more lip service to than anything. In karts I would have never been allowed to get as close to the action as I was allowed to in MX.
Well, I feel like a dumb***. How the heck did I not know that? I did read the manual. I guess I haven't missed out on much, since the only time I would use that would be at the track. (but I'll probably think of more uses now) I've only been able to make to the races once this year due to onflicts with my other sports. I missed last weekends race because I was shooting a softball tourney. (16 teams, 7-8 year olds $$) I plan to make it to the August race. Hopefully, I'll have my D300 back from Nikon by then:pissed,
assuming they get the part :pissed :pissed :pissed
Thanks, Russ.
You would want to use the high speed sync in quite a few ocaisions, portraits in daylight and under shade for instance, you want to have a wide aperture to blur the BG this will require a fast shutter and high speed sync on the fill.
One of my all time favorite award winning photos
This from back in the day before free style mx and guys completing back flips.
NO, he did not save it!
Tony P
Radical Sports Photos C&B upside downF.JPG
Damon Bradshaw at Atlanta Sx Another Fav
I did a lot of work for Bradshaw / Fox / Yamaha back then, this was a favorite. I got ROCKED by that roost, good sized rock to the jaw!
I am not sure if this is the preferred method but what I do is use the Insert Image icon right above the Message window (I'm typing in now). It is the small yellow icon that looks like a miniature picture of a mountain scene.
then I just type (or usually cut and paste) the location of the image into the URL box that pops up:
GringGriff, that is half of what Tony needs. It doesn't help him with resizing.
Tony, you attached the images. We don't do that. We simply imbedd a link to an offsite server that hosts pics for you. What you need is an image hosting site. Many are free and some have fees. With an account on one of these sites, you get X amount of space on their servers. So, you upload your pics to them and that is where they stay. Then when you want to post a pic here or any other forum, you go to your account and get a link to the picture or pictures that you want to post. There will be different links for different sizes of the picture that you want. Once you copy that link, you follow GringGriff's directions and you are good to go.
GringGriff, that is half of what Tony needs. It doesn't help him with resizing.
Tony, you attached the images. We don't do that. We simply imbedd a link to an offsite server that hosts pics for you. What you need is an image hosting site. Many are free and some have fees. With an account on one of these sites, you get X amount of space on their servers. So, you upload your pics to them and that is where they stay. Then when you want to post a pic here or any other forum, you go to your account and get a link to the picture or pictures that you want to post. There will be different links for different sizes of the picture that you want. Once you copy that link, you follow GringGriff's directions and you are good to go.
I'll double that and admit I'm embarrassed I missed that. I'm not sure why you would be shooting at ISO 640 in bright sun in the first place, but in bright sun use 100.
I always shot motorsports in Tv mode, not in Av mode. Why? Because I was usually much more concerned with how much (or how little) motion blur I was getting in a particular shot, and less concerned about how much depth of field I had. But likewise, I never shot in Manual mode either. I'd set the ISO to a value I wanted based on light, and shutter speed to a value based on the amount of motion blur I wanted to get, and let the camera meter for the aperture.
To me, when it comes to motorsports, choosing the correct shutter speed is more important than choosing the correct aperture. Contrast this to stick and ball sports. When I was shooting youth football I was trained to go Av mode, lens wide-open. The key was to get as shallow depth-of-field, and thus maximum background separation, plus to get the fastest possible shutter speed. There depth of field was of prime importance.
All good points
I like AV mode for a few reasons.
When shooting with a long lens (200mm and above) I always like shooting near wide open. Just personal style preference. Bike seperation from the background is one of the best ways to make the subject pop off the page so I like to stay around F4.
Also, this helps out huge with exposure problems. If I am in av mode and a big cloud rolls in and drops my exposure way down in the blink of an eye, I go to a slower shutter speed but dont loose an image to a way underexposed exposure.
If i was in TV trying to stay near wide open, and a cloud rolls in, I may loose all the images on that pass.
If your not interested in shooting with an out of focus bg or a wide angle lens where you need a really fast shutter speed then tv is the way to go.
a quick welcome aboard to all the new contributors to this thread. this past Sunday was Southwoods MX in Monticello NY. Like an idiot I stayed up late and out the door I went Sunday camera in hand. Last thing I did was look at a few notes here so for those who take the time to post trust me at least one person puts the hints to use.
Like an idiot I shot in the morning in bright light at around 4-500 shutter on Shutter priority and it was too slow. The sun kind of blurred the focus just a tad. Oh well..
Anyway I did come home with what I feel is my best MX shot to date with the D300 and I'd like ya'll to have a look. I'm posting it big because I think it looks better bigger.
And for the record he went down in this turn one lap prior but came back around like a champ.
Way way way too fast a shutter. You have stopped all motion whatsoever. I used to use 1/640 as my primary shutter speed for most shots, which gives a touch of wheel blur to show some motion. Then for select shots I'd drop down to around 1/250 and even down to 1/125.
Anyway I did come home with what I feel is my best MX shot to date with the D300 and I'd like ya'll to have a look. I'm posting it big because I think it looks better bigger.
And for the record he went down in this turn one lap prior but came back around like a champ.
I like it. Very cool. I wish I had shoots like this from my racing days. All of our old pictures are tiny and faded. Oh, if mom would have just that DSLR back in 1976.
when you say increase the Fstop do you mean go to a more wide open or more closed aperture, and how do you account for lighting.
as in, assuming its a bright sunny day and you're shooting S mode where you set the shutter, camera picks the Fstop by metering itself. you can then switch to M and chose your own Aperture, but will you risk too much or too little light?
Amadeus, Hey I am new here and used to shoot sports quite often when I was in college. I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet but here is a general rule of thumb for shooting fast action. SHOOT MANUAL.
1. Your shutter speed needs to be at least as fast as the focal length of the lens you are shooting with. Meaning a 300mm lens (~450mm on a D300) should be shot at a shutter speed of at least 1/500.
2. Unless you are going for a wide shot or want extra Depth of Field keep the aperture as wide open as possible (smallest number allowed by your lens).
3. Adjust your ISO accordingly to make sure they are not under or overexposed. 100 or 200 on a sunny day and maybe 800 on a cloudy or darker day.
So when i shot sports I would open up the camera as much as possible (usually f/2.8), set the shutter speed to 1/500 and then balance out my ISO. If it is really sunny then you can increase your shutter speed to get even crisper action.
Hope this helps and if anyone disagrees let me know because I am actually going to shoot my "dirt bike action" in the next few weeks.
1. Your shutter speed needs to be at least as fast as the focal length of the lens you are shooting with. Meaning a 300mm lens (~450mm on a D300) should be shot at a shutter speed of at least 1/500.
The crop factor does not need to be taken into account here. And you can easily go under 1/300 of a second shutter if you properly pan with the action. I know from experience.
So when i shot sports I would open up the camera as much as possible (usually f/2.8), set the shutter speed to 1/500 and then balance out my ISO. If it is really sunny then you can increase your shutter speed to get even crisper action.
That works great for stick and ball sports, but in motorsports sometimes you want fast shutters for crispness, sometimes you want slow shutters (1/250, 1/100, or slower!) to show motion (which you'd never do in football, for example).
Spring Creek Moto Park Millville Minnesota
I'm a newbie here so be kind! :ivar
I love taking pictures of motocross. Just last weekend I attended the Motocross Nationals in Millville, Minnesota. I only live 30 miles from there so I have been going there for the last five years. No more Goat but still amazing racing!
Sorry! I'm a newbie to THIS site! I've been taking dirt track racing pictures for around five years now! Motocross has some many different looks that makes it unique!
Comments
lots to comment on here and I want to again thank any and all input and additions to this thread from all the MX photogs.
my understanding is a higher fstop will increase the depth of field, but will it also "stretch" the focus?
example, I had a shot where the front wheel, forks, riders out stretched boot were crisp, helmet not so crisp.
I tend to stand VERY close to the action, and I'm wondering if I'm paying for that in terms of focus. Why else would a front fender be in focus and the riders helmet be out?
I can't shoot AV mode, the D300 only has A, S, M and P which is basically auto.
I think...
thanks again for all the input to everyone.
You have to find the happy median between shutter speed and aperature to get everything in focus. Shooting at F/10 like you were, causes the camera to need a longer shutter speed to get a proper exposure. When the subject is moving as fast as MX riders go, the odds of you being perfectly still and following the rider during the longer shutter speed is not that great.
If you shoot wide open with an aperature of F/2.8, you'll get extremely fast shutter speed because so much light is being let in. The problem shooting wide open is that most of the time the whole frame will not be in focus because pf the shallow depth of field. Only the areas closest to your chosen focus marker in your camera will be in focus. Especially if you are shooting very close to the riders.
Think of it like this, if you have a bucket of water and a glass of water and want to pour the water from each into a glass with no water in it. Which do you think will get you the most water in your glass? Pouring from the glass would because the opening is much smaller, thus less water can come out all at once. It will take longer to pour from the glass than the bucket, but you will yield better results from the glass. Now think of the bucket and glass as aperature. The bucket has a very large opening to allow the water to basically fall out. This is much like shooting wide open at F/2.8. The glass has a much smaller opening and will allow more water to stay in the glass being poured into. This is much like shooting at a small aperture like F/10. So, the smaller the aperature the more things will be in focus, as long as they aren't moving.
So, you need to find somewhere in the middle. Where you can get enough depth of field that the whole bike and rider are in focus and still get a fast enough shutter speed that you aren't panning and lessening your chances of a tack sharp photo. I try and shoot around 1/800 shutter speed and around F/5.6. I found that I have the most amount of keepers if I stay in this range. An 800 shutter speed is just slow enough that you can detect a little movement in the tires. That is good enough for me. Everyone has their own opinion on what picture looks better, one that shows alot of wheel spin, one that shows a little, and one that freezes the action. There is no right or wrong here. Just shoot for what YOU like.
http://www.RussErbePhotography.com :thumb
http://www.sportsshooter.com/erbeman
D700, D300, Nikkor 35-70 F/2.8, Nikkor 50mm F/1.8, Nikkor 70-200 AF-S VR F/2.8, Nikkor AF-S 1.7 teleconverter II,(2) Profoto D1 500 Air,SB-900, SB-600, (2)MB-D10, MacBook Pro
But back to the focus issue, the closer you are to a fast moving subject the harder the auto-focus will have to work. At some point it will just give up and start lagging the action. Back away from the action. You will be safe, AND your auto-focus will work better.
"A" is the same as Av. "S" is the same as Tv. Shoot in S mode, pic a shutter speed that will give the amount of motion blur you are interested in. My highest shutter speed was 1/640 and what I used most the time. In bright sun use a low ISO setting, like 100.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
Had that happen 3 times this year already.
Canon XSI
18-55 AF IS
55-250 AF IS
Canon 430 EXII Flash
http://www.RussErbePhotography.com :thumb
http://www.sportsshooter.com/erbeman
D700, D300, Nikkor 35-70 F/2.8, Nikkor 50mm F/1.8, Nikkor 70-200 AF-S VR F/2.8, Nikkor AF-S 1.7 teleconverter II,(2) Profoto D1 500 Air,SB-900, SB-600, (2)MB-D10, MacBook Pro
Canon XSI
18-55 AF IS
55-250 AF IS
Canon 430 EXII Flash
I hate to say it, but this is one reason why I stopped shooting MX. When I was shooting karts I would get forcibly reminded if I strayed somewhere that was not safe. I was always kept far from the racing line, behind barriers, etc. Safety in karting, both when I was racing karts and also when photographing karts. Ditto with cars. Last weekend I practiced some car shots at a nearby track and was told in no uncertain terms where I could go and could not, how far from the track I needed to be, etc. But in MX safety just seems, well, like a good idea that people pay more lip service to than anything. In karts I would have never been allowed to get as close to the action as I was allowed to in MX.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
This from back in the day before free style mx and guys completing back flips.
NO, he did not save it!
Tony P
Radical Sports Photos
C&B upside downF.JPG
I did a lot of work for Bradshaw / Fox / Yamaha back then, this was a favorite. I got ROCKED by that roost, good sized rock to the jaw!
Tony P
Radical Sports Photos
C&B upside downF.JPG[/quote]
I am new to all this digital uploading. How do I quickly resize and attach several photos like some of you guys are doing?
Tony P
Radical Sports Photos
C&B upside downF.JPG[/quote][/quote]
I am not sure if this is the preferred method but what I do is use the Insert Image icon right above the Message window (I'm typing in now). It is the small yellow icon that looks like a miniature picture of a mountain scene.
then I just type (or usually cut and paste) the location of the image into the URL box that pops up:
Hope this helps.
Andy
http://andygriffinphoto.com/
http://andygriffin.smugmug.com/
Canon 7D, 70-200mm L, 50 and 85 primes, Tamron 17-50, 28-135
Tony, you attached the images. We don't do that. We simply imbedd a link to an offsite server that hosts pics for you. What you need is an image hosting site. Many are free and some have fees. With an account on one of these sites, you get X amount of space on their servers. So, you upload your pics to them and that is where they stay. Then when you want to post a pic here or any other forum, you go to your account and get a link to the picture or pictures that you want to post. There will be different links for different sizes of the picture that you want. Once you copy that link, you follow GringGriff's directions and you are good to go.
http://www.RussErbePhotography.com :thumb
http://www.sportsshooter.com/erbeman
D700, D300, Nikkor 35-70 F/2.8, Nikkor 50mm F/1.8, Nikkor 70-200 AF-S VR F/2.8, Nikkor AF-S 1.7 teleconverter II,(2) Profoto D1 500 Air,SB-900, SB-600, (2)MB-D10, MacBook Pro
Tony P
All good points
I like AV mode for a few reasons.
When shooting with a long lens (200mm and above) I always like shooting near wide open. Just personal style preference. Bike seperation from the background is one of the best ways to make the subject pop off the page so I like to stay around F4.
Also, this helps out huge with exposure problems. If I am in av mode and a big cloud rolls in and drops my exposure way down in the blink of an eye, I go to a slower shutter speed but dont loose an image to a way underexposed exposure.
If i was in TV trying to stay near wide open, and a cloud rolls in, I may loose all the images on that pass.
If your not interested in shooting with an out of focus bg or a wide angle lens where you need a really fast shutter speed then tv is the way to go.
Like an idiot I shot in the morning in bright light at around 4-500 shutter on Shutter priority and it was too slow. The sun kind of blurred the focus just a tad. Oh well..
Anyway I did come home with what I feel is my best MX shot to date with the D300 and I'd like ya'll to have a look. I'm posting it big because I think it looks better bigger.
And for the record he went down in this turn one lap prior but came back around like a champ.
also from sunday.
these 3 know me at this point and I enjoy the small talk. it was just a simple "hey take our picture"
http://andygriffinphoto.com/
http://andygriffin.smugmug.com/
Canon 7D, 70-200mm L, 50 and 85 primes, Tamron 17-50, 28-135
http://motocross.com/blogs/ble/179.html
I found it to be pretty interesting.
1. Your shutter speed needs to be at least as fast as the focal length of the lens you are shooting with. Meaning a 300mm lens (~450mm on a D300) should be shot at a shutter speed of at least 1/500.
2. Unless you are going for a wide shot or want extra Depth of Field keep the aperture as wide open as possible (smallest number allowed by your lens).
3. Adjust your ISO accordingly to make sure they are not under or overexposed. 100 or 200 on a sunny day and maybe 800 on a cloudy or darker day.
So when i shot sports I would open up the camera as much as possible (usually f/2.8), set the shutter speed to 1/500 and then balance out my ISO. If it is really sunny then you can increase your shutter speed to get even crisper action.
Hope this helps and if anyone disagrees let me know because I am actually going to shoot my "dirt bike action" in the next few weeks.
2.
3.
4.
Will have to say it was real cloudy that day and i don't own anything with a f2.8.
I wish I did unless someone wants to give me a 70-200 f2.8 lol
Canon XSI
18-55 AF IS
55-250 AF IS
Canon 430 EXII Flash
That works great for stick and ball sports, but in motorsports sometimes you want fast shutters for crispness, sometimes you want slow shutters (1/250, 1/100, or slower!) to show motion (which you'd never do in football, for example).
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
I'm a newbie here so be kind! :ivar
I love taking pictures of motocross. Just last weekend I attended the Motocross Nationals in Millville, Minnesota. I only live 30 miles from there so I have been going there for the last five years. No more Goat but still amazing racing!
Fairbanks, Alaska SMUG Leader
My Site | Fairbanks SMUG | Facebook | Twitter
Sorry! I'm a newbie to THIS site!