I know in a previous post all of you were trying to talk me out of photographing weddings, and you did.... Well until I got a call today asking if I would be interested in shooting a wedding.
Its at a Holiday inn in June, I dont have many details right now but.. What should I expect, and how should i go about setting this up. The woman i talked to on the phone earlier says she cant afford a "Professional Photographer" and I use that term loosely, because I consider myself fairly good... Good enough to get her what she wants, and then some.
She is going to pay me, She doesnt want an album or anything all she says is "I want to just take the photos to Cvs and print them"
How much should I charge her for my time, and services? I'd be there working from 11-5pm
Any suggestions? Any key things that I'm missing?
Thanks for any help you can provide me with.
Its true what everyone on here says about how you will need to do your research. But I will let you in on my first wedding shoot. It was about a year and a half ago and my cousin's friends daughter's photographer cancelled on them 1 week before the wedding. Mind you, I only had a Canon Rebel XTI and a very basic lens which was from a 50D (28mm - 135mm). The wedding was in the dead of winter and I was really deliberating if I should even do it. I ended up doing it for $300 and my back up camera was literally a little point and shoot. I tell you what though, it was a HUGE eye opener! I was definitely not prepared, even though I read all the books and articles on the web - I didn't have the right equipment. The photos actually came out good, but not as great as my recent wedding shoots. However, if I didn't do the shoot then I would have never had the chance to see what it was like. In the end the photos were good for my "first" wedding and the client really liked them. The photos did lead me to my next set of weddings and really opened up doors for me. But it certainly was a stressful experience! Now I make sure i have the right equipment. I have two DSLR, one as a back up and I shoot with both. I have two L lenses which are 2.8FS and are great in Low lighting. I even have a 50mm 1.8 just in case (i will be upgrading soon) I also have 3 off camera flashes and tons of extra batteries and cards.
I'm not gonna say dont do it, because If i didnt do mine, I wouldnt be where i am today. Just be prepared for a long day! Make sure you have extra batteries, cards, shoot in RAW, bring your flash and bounce it! Bring your fastest lens and a zoom lens and bring some snacks to keep you on your toes. And last but not least, let us see how the photos come out!
Sorry, I read multiple lenses for each camera in your sig. I must have been confused.
I fail to see how that was rude.
thats how kids relate to a critique.
If they hear what they want to hear, then all is fine.
If they hear something they don't want to hear, its rude and nasty.
gives a nice line to draw to separate mature photogs form kids.
thats how kids relate to a critique.
If they hear what they want to hear, then all is fine.
If they hear something they don't want to hear, its rude and nasty.
gives a nice line to draw to separate mature photogs form kids.
That wasn't the rude part. The OP said he has been very busy with a new job and hasn't had time to post pictures. So somebody decides that maybe the OP needs to know how many hours a day the average person works, and sleeps, and commutes to work, and so on, as if the OP didn't already know this. In other words, trying to say he has no excuse for not posting pictures. Honestly, its rude to suggest that you know that someone else really does have some spare time when they say they don't.
Now, I'll agree the OP hasn't valued any of the advice saying "don't shoot your first wedding as a primary photographer" because its not what he wants to hear. By his own admission, he was talked out of it once before. Now he just wants to know how to go about doing it. And the suggestion to learn how to go about doing it by being an assistant for some time isn't what he wants to hear. Oh well...
I'm going to jump in here, too, maybe against my better judgement.
Last year around this time, I also posted a 'first wedding-need advice' thread. I was very up-front that I didn't (& still don't) consider myself a wedding photographer or even a professional photographer, but had literally been arm-twisted into doing my best friend's daughter's wedding. I was scared to death because I KNEW I was in over my head. I tried to tell my friend that & talk them out of using me, but they didn't want a professional--they wanted a friend that they already knew they would be comfortable with.
I think Kinkajou's advice is really good. Research, research, research! I spent a lot of time reading nearly every thread in dgrin's wedding forum. I looked at everyone's photos. I looked at the poses, the compositions, the post-processing. I read all the sticky's at the top of the forum. I read everyone's caveats & horror stories so I could try to avoid those types of situations. I learned a lot from all of this and it was a great help to me when the big day came.
I think you should be very upfront with your bride/client. Make sure she really understands your experience level and make sure that her expectations (and yours) are reasonable. A contract is a good thing to have to spell all this out.
The last couple of weddings that I attended, the photographer did have the mini-cards with the engagement photo on one side and the website & gallery password on the other. Cards were displayed by the guest book and were also placed on the tables during the reception. I actually thought that was a good idea, because most wedding guests would like to see the photos later I think.
Professionals are people that treat their clients and peers with dignity and respect. Remember that all these post can be googled and what a shame it would be if your lost a client because of rude remarks.
The D40 is capable of taking great pictures, and your advantage is that you are comfortable with it. But by all means have a backup plan, just in case.
Yes please lets keep this thread a little more civilized... I do not want any of your careers or mine for that matter be in jeapordy if someone googles this thread.
Two things:
One: If you think this crowd is tough, try a disappointed client. For the most part the advice you have received has been sound and well intentioned.
Two: OK, let me take a stab at helping you.
Preparation:
Look at lots of wedding photography sites. Start with some of the sites of the members in this thread. Figure out what you like and don't like. Look for patterns. After a while you will notice that 70% of all shots are the same. This can also be confirmed with comparing various checklists for shots. Part of your success will be to anticipate 2-3 shots ahead. Since you lack first hand experience, look at others work again and again so you can get a feel for the experience and what to look for on your shoot.
Shot checklists can easily reach 150+. I have no doubt that you are a bright young man, but you can not grasp all of those details in real time. Make up a short list of must haves like:
Bride and Father entering (if you miss this one, don't even bother showing up at the reception)
Ceremony kiss
The toast
The cake
The first dance
Narrow it down to 20-30 that you can study so as to build your confidence. You will shoot many many more, this just ensure you don't miss any key shots.
Practice: What ever gear you are using, you should practice with it. Get a willing model, dress her in a white outfit and practice. Inside, outside. It sounds like you have been doing a bit of work already - just keep it up and critically evaluate your own work and give it to others to do as well. If you can't or won't post on the forum, send some shots to my email address.
If possible, ensure your primary and back up camera and flash are the same so you don't have to switch mental gears when you switch cameras. Try different flash modes. CLS is very cool, but it can be fooled, especially in bal fill flash.
Execution:
This is of course the hard part. Do not be lulled into thinking that the renewal service will be easier than the full wedding. It may have less flowers, but it is still a scripted event here a couple of tips.
There are 4 main phases to shooting the wedding, each with its own style and requirements.
A. Bridal preparation (1-2 hours)
B. Ceremony (30 minutes to 1 hour)
C. Formals (30 minutes - guests are waiting!)
D. Reception (1-3 hours)
- Its about the bride
- Never ever place the bride in direct sun
- Bounce off of white ceiling if possible. Make sure its white
- Shoot RAW (Bring plenty of memory)
- Look for open shade, southern exposure windows etc.
- In general, shoot wide open for any portrait style shots - narrow DOF will tend to be more romantic as well as perhaps hide the Holiday Inn surroundings. Stop down for the group. Remember that regardless of your chosen flash, shooting at small apertures will require greater flash output, lengthen recycle times, burn through batteries faster, and in some cases contribute to flash overheating.
- check out the location early. Ask the hotel if you can take some practice shots. Offer to use the manager as a stand in. If they are pleasant enough this will help build rapport and perhaps even a future referral.
- In general shoot on the tight side - this will give you more to work with in post. You WILL do post, even if they want to do the print.
Speaking of prints, she probably thinks that CVS will be her best deal. Recently my own daughter took one of my portrait shots of her to Walmart. For the exact same money she could have ordered prints from my lab that were far superior.
Finally: I sense you want to do a good job or you would not have reached out and taken some of this critical feedback. I would only offer this: Your attitude should be that you want to not just a do a good job, but rather do an amazing kick-a$$ job that leaves your client blown away. Strive for artistic and technical excellence in every single job, every single shot. Easy words, but creating a standard of excellence for your work will only help you in this job or the jobs to come.
If you want to discuss any of this further, shoot me an email. Its listed on my site. I usually don't do lengthy replies, but had a client cancel today due to sickness. So there it is.
Contract
Terms and Conditions
ENTIRE AGREEMENT: This agreement contains the entire understanding between STUDIO NAME HERE and the CLIENT. It supersedes all prior and simultaneous agreements between the parties. The only way to add or change this agreement is to do so in writing, signed by all the parties. ____________Initials
RETAINER AND PAYMENT: Upon your signature, STUDIO NAME HERE will reserve the time and date agreed upon, and will not make other reservations for that time and date. For this reason the non-refundable retainer payment of $500.00 dollars is non-refundable, even if date is changed or wedding cancelled for any reason, including acts of God, fire, strike, and extreme weather. The retainer payment is to be paid at time of signing the contract. The retainer payment is applied towards the contracted wedding photography package. The remaining balance is broken into two payments. One payment 90 days prior to the wedding date and the last payment 14 days prior to the wedding date. Client understands and agrees that the entire amount owed for the wedding photography package described in the contract is due no later than (2) weeks before the Wedding Day. Client agrees if the balance is not paid by this time, STUDIO NAME HERE will NOT photograph the Wedding Day described on the contract with no liability to STUDIO NAME HERE and loss of all payments by the Client. Acceptable forms of payment include cash, personal checks and money orders. Credit Cards are accepted thru PayPal. A $50.00 fee with be charged for any returned bank checks. There is a $35 late payment fee for any payments that are not postmarked or delivered to STUDIO NAME HERE by the required date. ____________Initials
CANCELLATION: Written notification from the client is necessary in order to cancel the contracted services. All payments on this contract are non-refundable including the non-refundable retainer. A full refund minus the non-refundable retainer will only be issued if the date is re-booked at or above the cost of this contract. Any requests for a refund must be in writing and mailed to STUDIO NAME HERE. If the conditions above have been met STUDIO NAME HERE will issue a refund of all payments made except the non-refundable retainer in the form of a check with-in 90 days. ____________Initials
PHOTOGRAPHIC COVERAGE & RESTRICTIONS: All photographic coverage will be provided in accordance with the package contents outlined on page one. The CLIENT recognizes that weddings are dynamic and fast moving events. The Studio cannot guarantee that any specific photograph will be produced. Due to the limited and subjective nature of the event, neither PHOTOGRAPHERS NAME or STUDIO NAME HERE can be held responsible for requested photographs not taken or missed, lack of coverage resulting from weather conditions, or schedule complications caused by but not limited to, anyone in or at the event, or by the church or location restrictions. Please note that we do not stage or choreograph specific events throughout the day. The photographer is not responsible for lost photo opportunities due to other cameras or flashes, the lateness of the bride, groom, or other principles. The Photographer is not responsible for the lack of coverage due to weather conditions, scheduling complications due to lateness of individuals, rules and restrictions of venue, or the rendering of decorations of the location. It is acknowledged that any lists submitted to PHOTOGRAPHERS NAME and/or STUDIO NAME HERE will be used for organizational purposes only and in no way represents photography that will actually be produced. STUDIO NAME HERE will do its best to fulfill all requests but can make no guarantees all images will be delivered. Clients are responsible for all location fees and permits. The Studio shall be granted artistic license in relation to the poses photographed and the locations used. The Studio will not be held responsible for the lack of coverage caused for the following reasons: The Bride, Groom or wedding party not being on time, members of the wedding party are unavailable when called or a shot, if the wedding is running late or if restrictions regarding photography at the desired location of the wedding are in force. Due to the vagaries of the weather and the willingness of the subject/s it may not be possible to capture all the images requested by the client. The Studio with the co operation of the client will do their best to produce coverage of the wedding in the time allocated to them. ____________Initials
GUEST BEHAVIOR: STUDIO NAME HERE will not tolerate verbally or physically abusive behavior, nor will it share its time or compete with guest photographers for the attention of the subjects. Unchecked guest conduct that interferes with photography will seriously affect the quality of the photographs taken and increase the number of photos that must be created. If the CLIENT is unable to control the conduct of their guests or if the conduct of any of their guests damages the equipment of the photographer, it will result in the early or immediate departure of the photographer. We understand that in such an event, no refunds will result. ____________Initials
CREATIVE LICENSE: Images are edited at the photographer’s discretion, and delivered prints may not include all images shot. The photographer reserves the creative right to edit and release only those deemed creditable as professional in quality and within the photographer’s artistic standards. ____________Initials
TOUCH UPS: Although diligent efforts are made to avoid environmental problems and effects, all client-requested photographic touchups or alterations not included in the purchased product will only be performed at the client’s expense. Such retouching may include but is not limited to, correction of hair/make up, environmental effects such as light fixtures, wall sockets, etc., clothing, reflections in glasses, opening closed eyes, removal/insertion of family members, hired wedding personnel, fixtures etc. ____________Initials
PHOTOGRAPHS – COLOR CORRECTION – EXPOSURE: The Studio takes the utmost care with respect to the exposure, editing and production of all our products and services offered. Every effort will be made to assure satisfaction according to the Studio’s professional standards. However, the Studio is not responsible for subjective interpretations of photography. ____________Initials
DIGITAL NEGATIVES, PRINTS and COPYRIGHTS: The photographs, digital negatives or prints produced by STUDIO NAME HERE are protected by Federal Copyright Law (all rights reserved) and may not be reproduced in any manner without STUDIO NAME HEREs explicitly written permission. The Client must obtain written permission from and compensate STUDIO NAME HERE prior to the CLIENT or its friends and relatives publishing or selling the photographs for profit. ____________Initials
MODEL RELEASE: The CLIENT hereby grants to STUDIO NAME HERE and its legal representatives and assigns, the irrevocable and unrestricted right to use and publish photographs of the CLIENT or in which the CLIENT may be included, for editorial, trade, advertising and any other purpose and in any manner and medium; to alter the same without restriction; and to copyright the same. The CLIENT hereby releases STUDIO NAME HERE and its legal representatives and assigns from all claims and liability relating to said photographs. ____________Initials
EXCLUSIVITY / GUEST PHOTOGRAPHY: STUDIO NAME HERE shall be the exclusive photographer retained by the Client for the purpose of photographing the wedding. NO PICTURES DURING ANY FORMAL SESSION SET UP BY PHOTOGRAPHER: Three things can happen during formals that will be detrimental to both time and the resulting picture quality—a) people asking me to stop to take pictures with their cameras, b) people looking in other directions than the camera’s direction, and c) the usage of multiple flashes. People constantly asking for the photo session to stop so that they can take pictures will only get you to your reception later. Turned heads will make people look like they aren’t paying attention in pictures. Also, multiple flashes firing when my camera does could ruin your pictures because too many will make your pictures bright and blue. Because of all these things, we need to find a way to control the unknown; to do this; we prevent pictures from being taken during any formal session. Please be sure to communicate this to your family at your rehearsal dinner or whenever you see them. ____________Initials
CD/DVD STORAGE: Due to the lack of information about how long CDs/DVDs can hold information, STUDIO NAME HERE recommends you back up your images on another media format other than CD/DVD. STUDIO NAME HERE also recommends making multiple copies of CDs/DVDs every year to insure the images for years to come. STUDIO NAME HERE cannot be held responsible for the failure of CDs/DVDs due to mishandling. It is the client’s responsibility to keep several copies of any CDs/DVDs in more than one location, and back the images up on another format such as a hard drive. ____________Initials
ALBUM PROOFING: Once the design process has begun it's possible during the busy wedding season that it could take up to six months for your completed album to be returned to you. Your album will be custom-designed by a professional album designer. The professional album designer will custom design and layout your album using your wedding pictures. When the album design and layout is complete, I will then supply you a website address, where you may view the design and make any comments directly on the website to the album designer. You are allowed up to 10 photo swaps, after the 10th swap there will be a design charge of $15.00 dollars per photo swap. If you decide to redesign a page there will be a charge of $25.00 dollars per page, a two page spread is a page on left side & right side that would be $50.00 dollars. ____________Initials
MEALS: It is customary to provide a meal for the photography team. The meal should be timed with the wedding couple's main course so that no photo opportunities are missed while the photographer and crew eat. The photography team consists of 1 person unless you also booked us for additional services/options, in which case the team could consist of 4 people. Please refer to the studio services on page 1 for verification of photography team. If dinner cannot be provided the photography team will need to leave the premises for up to 90 minutes and is not responsible for any missed events not photographed during this time frame. ____________Initials
PRODUCT DELIVERY & PRICE LOCK: Upon notification, the clients must arrange for pick-up and delivery of albums prints and other products within a reasonable time period, not to exceed 30 days after notification. Client is responsible for any and all shipping charges and insurance is mandatory. STUDIO NAME HERE is not responsible for any damage that may be incurred while the proofs and/or other final products are in storage after said 30 days. The terms of this agreement are valid for 6 months after the date of the event. If no correspondence has been received by that date, this agreement will be considered completed in full. STUDIO NAME HERE cannot be held liable in the event that photographic materials are damaged in the processing, lost/damaged in the mail, or otherwise lost or damaged without fault on the part of the photographer. No money will be reimbursed. All prices are locked in for 6 months. After 6 months prices are subject to change. ____________Initials
PARKING: Reasonable Parking allocations are essential for optimal coverage. With our equipment and time requirements for preparation, it would be greatly appreciated. This allows us to move safely and swiftly to be in ―all places at once‖. Any Parking fees incurred on the day of filming will be invoiced to The Client at a later date. STUDIO NAME HERE cannot be held liable for lateness if parking is not within the general vicinity of any given event. ____________Initials
RIGHT OF WITHDRAWAL: The studio's discovery of new information, changes, or other factors tending to circumvent its policies could result in its withdrawal. Non-cooperation; changes of locations, facilities or times available; missed appointments; bad or returned checks, or late payments are examples of contributing factors. Should the studio initiate the withdrawal, all fees and deposits will be returned, excepting fair market value for all services/products already provided. In case of withdrawal, $75 an hour is billed for all photography services already provided, and $20 an hour is billed for all other services, consultations, and all driving time, rounded up to the nearest half-hour. If the studio withdraws the client will not be billed for any services in excess of their deposits (except if deposit was in form of returned checks). ____________Initials
PHOTOGRAPHER: STUDIO NAME HERE may substitute another photographer to take the photographs in the event of Photographer's illness or of scheduling conflicts. In the event of such substitution STUDIO NAME HERE, warrants that the Photographer taking the photographs shall be a competent professional. ____________Initials
LIMIT OF LIABILITY: If STUDIO NAME HERE cannot perform this Agreement due to a fire or other casualty, strike, act of God, or other cause beyond the control of the parties, or due to Photographer's illness, then STUDIO NAME HERE shall return any balance paid, above the retainer, to the Client, but shall have no further liability with respect to the Agreement. This limitation on liability shall also apply in the event that photographic materials are damaged in processing, lost through camera malfunction, lost in the mail, fire or otherwise lost or damaged without fault on the part of STUDIO NAME HERE. In the event STUDIO NAME HERE fails to perform for any other reason, STUDIO NAME HERE shall not be liable for any amount in excess of the retail value of the Client's order. ____________Initials
MISCELLANY: This Agreement and the attached pricing structure incorporates the entire understanding of the parties. Any modifications of this Agreement must be in writing and signed by both parties. Any waiver of a breach or default hereunder shall not be deemed a waiver of a subsequent breach or default of either the same provision or any other provision of this Agreement. This Agreement shall be governed by the laws of the State of New Hampshire. ____________Initials
As an attorney, I completely agree with the insurance. A lot of times, it is not losing a lawsuit that is expensive, but fighting the lawsuit.
If you have to hire an attorney to fight a lawsuit, the cost will be in the many thousands of dollars and like the previous poster said, if grandma trips on your equipment and breaks something, the cost of hiring medical experts, etc. will be expensive.
Even if you are 100% in the right, someone can still sue you and that's where the major cost often can be. There is no bar to filing even a frivolous lawsuit. If you do nothing else, be smart and get insurance.
As an attorney, I completely agree with the insurance. A lot of times, it is not losing a lawsuit that is expensive, but fighting the lawsuit.
If you have to hire an attorney to fight a lawsuit, the cost will be in the many thousands of dollars and like the previous poster said, if grandma trips on your equipment and breaks something, the cost of hiring medical experts, etc. will be expensive.
Even if you are 100% in the right, someone can still sue you and that's where the major cost often can be. There is no bar to filing even a frivolous lawsuit. If you do nothing else, be smart and get insurance.
I'm not the only lawyer on this forum!
And I am finding myself in the situation of having been asked to photograph a friends wedding. I have kept insisting that 'just because the camera is big doesnt mean I know how to use it!' or 'hire a pro anyway' and I've even sent the bride to read the first page of this website: http://www.rokkorfiles.com/Wedding101-page1.html
She still insists, so I'm taking this as an opportunity to make a qualitative leap in my capabilities. It's in May, so I will spend all weekends practicing, reading books like the Neil van Niekerk one (recommended to the original poster!!!) and my wife is constantly being covered with all kinds of bounce flash, asked to dress in white clothes, etc. etc.
Street & Portrait because of the people. Landscape because it's pretty.
Disappointed with AF of Tamron 28-75 2.8, me less happy.
Professionals are people that treat their clients and peers with dignity and respect. Remember that all these post can be googled and what a shame it would be if your lost a client because of rude remarks.
The D40 is capable of taking great pictures, and your advantage is that you are comfortable with it. But by all means have a backup plan, just in case.
The D40 and D40X aren't the same cameras. Actually,I think the D40 is superior because of the fact that Nikon includes the 1/500 Flash sync speed on the D40, but on the D40X uses 1/200. In fact, I don't know of another digital camera that does the 1/500. Also, I notice more noise on the D60(D40X) sensor than the D40 sensor in low-light conditions, I think it's the extra pixels jammed onto the same sensor area.
The D40 and D40X aren't the same cameras. Actually,I think the D40 is superior because of the fact that Nikon includes the 1/500 Flash sync speed on the D40, but on the D40X uses 1/200. In fact, I don't know of another digital camera that does the 1/500. Also, I notice more noise on the D60(D40X) sensor than the D40 sensor in low-light conditions, I think it's the extra pixels jammed onto the same sensor area.
FYI the d50 did 1/500 out of the box, the higher end cameras have the high sync setting that eliminates low sync issues if they are a problem.
Yeah the d70 had 500 synch.
the D700 and d3 have high speed sync or whatever they call it.
I can shoot flash at whatever shutter speed I want, it just has less power than at the normal setting. I always leave it on that setting.
I think I've said all I really feel like I can say in this thread. Nothing that's been posted has made me change my mind, best of luck to you.
I agree that this thread is nothing compared to a angry client.
Not only are you rude, but apparently, your not a man of your word either...Its people like you that discourage posts.
Eric, if you have some kind of problem, let the rest of us know, maybe we could help. Or at least, if you have nothing beneficial to say, don't say anything...
Yeah the d70 had 500 synch.
the D700 and d3 have high speed sync or whatever they call it.
I can shoot flash at whatever shutter speed I want, it just has less power than at the normal setting. I always leave it on that setting.
That's true at night, but in shooting at high noon with full sun, you need the 1/500 with fill flash to get an appropriate exposure at more than 10 - 15 feet, which is where having 1/500 is better than not. When you do events that are happening at that time of the day, the D40 is superior to the D90 (for example) from my experience for that reason.
That's true at night, but in shooting at high noon with full sun, you need the 1/500 with fill flash to get an appropriate exposure at more than 10 - 15 feet, which is where having 1/500 is better than not. When you do events that are happening at that time of the day, the D40 is superior to the D90 (for example) from my experience for that reason.
Turn the FP on in the D90 and you can shoot at any shutter speed you want with a flash, just remember that it does cut down power levels, but according to the practical guide, its still effective to 1/1600 to 8 to 10 ft.
Not only are you rude, but apparently, your not a man of your word either...Its people like you that discourage posts.
Eric, if you have some kind of problem, let the rest of us know, maybe we could help. Or at least, if you have nothing beneficial to say, don't say anything...
Rude? More like honest and upfront. Not my problem if some people are overly sensitive to the truth. I'm just looking for some examples of his work, that's all. Still nothing. Seems like if he felt like he was capable (which he says he is, confidence is key) then he would put up some pictures to show us..
Turn the FP on in the D90 and you can shoot at any shutter speed you want with a flash, just remember that it does cut down power levels, but according to the practical guide, its still effective to 1/1600 to 8 to 10 ft.
I'll try again...side by side, I was able to reach a better balanced fill using the D40 with the natural higher shutter speed because I didn't have to sacrifice flash power.
I'll try again...side by side, I was able to reach a better balanced fill using the D40 with the natural higher shutter speed because I didn't have to sacrifice flash power.
I understand my D50 has that benefit also with the 1/500 sync, but it doenst have the FP option.
In the real world, I use the flash fp (any shutter speed) setting all the time and take large group shots in day time in the sun at more than 10-15 feet using it for fill flash.
It needs to be cranked up (sb800) but works just great. If it is a really large group sometimes I will use two of them.
I shoot for a high school marching band, across a field sometimes. Maybe it's the smaller power of the sb600, but I see better balance with the D40 because it's trimming down the ambient light at 20-25 feet away.
It could be the lack of power in the SB600 compared to the SB800, though, and that's what I'm seeing.
Comments
Its true what everyone on here says about how you will need to do your research. But I will let you in on my first wedding shoot. It was about a year and a half ago and my cousin's friends daughter's photographer cancelled on them 1 week before the wedding. Mind you, I only had a Canon Rebel XTI and a very basic lens which was from a 50D (28mm - 135mm). The wedding was in the dead of winter and I was really deliberating if I should even do it. I ended up doing it for $300 and my back up camera was literally a little point and shoot. I tell you what though, it was a HUGE eye opener! I was definitely not prepared, even though I read all the books and articles on the web - I didn't have the right equipment. The photos actually came out good, but not as great as my recent wedding shoots. However, if I didn't do the shoot then I would have never had the chance to see what it was like. In the end the photos were good for my "first" wedding and the client really liked them. The photos did lead me to my next set of weddings and really opened up doors for me. But it certainly was a stressful experience! Now I make sure i have the right equipment. I have two DSLR, one as a back up and I shoot with both. I have two L lenses which are 2.8FS and are great in Low lighting. I even have a 50mm 1.8 just in case (i will be upgrading soon) I also have 3 off camera flashes and tons of extra batteries and cards.
I'm not gonna say dont do it, because If i didnt do mine, I wouldnt be where i am today. Just be prepared for a long day! Make sure you have extra batteries, cards, shoot in RAW, bring your flash and bounce it! Bring your fastest lens and a zoom lens and bring some snacks to keep you on your toes. And last but not least, let us see how the photos come out!
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"I'm in love with my Canon.. & lovely L Lenses..."
thats how kids relate to a critique.
If they hear what they want to hear, then all is fine.
If they hear something they don't want to hear, its rude and nasty.
gives a nice line to draw to separate mature photogs form kids.
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Now, I'll agree the OP hasn't valued any of the advice saying "don't shoot your first wedding as a primary photographer" because its not what he wants to hear. By his own admission, he was talked out of it once before. Now he just wants to know how to go about doing it. And the suggestion to learn how to go about doing it by being an assistant for some time isn't what he wants to hear. Oh well...
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Last year around this time, I also posted a 'first wedding-need advice' thread. I was very up-front that I didn't (& still don't) consider myself a wedding photographer or even a professional photographer, but had literally been arm-twisted into doing my best friend's daughter's wedding. I was scared to death because I KNEW I was in over my head. I tried to tell my friend that & talk them out of using me, but they didn't want a professional--they wanted a friend that they already knew they would be comfortable with.
I think Kinkajou's advice is really good. Research, research, research! I spent a lot of time reading nearly every thread in dgrin's wedding forum. I looked at everyone's photos. I looked at the poses, the compositions, the post-processing. I read all the sticky's at the top of the forum. I read everyone's caveats & horror stories so I could try to avoid those types of situations. I learned a lot from all of this and it was a great help to me when the big day came.
I think you should be very upfront with your bride/client. Make sure she really understands your experience level and make sure that her expectations (and yours) are reasonable. A contract is a good thing to have to spell all this out.
The last couple of weddings that I attended, the photographer did have the mini-cards with the engagement photo on one side and the website & gallery password on the other. Cards were displayed by the guest book and were also placed on the tables during the reception. I actually thought that was a good idea, because most wedding guests would like to see the photos later I think.
Good luck with all this.
Sherry
IUm sorry I gave you the wrong numbers... My telephoto is a Nikon 70-300
and my standard lens is a 18-135
Nikkor 18-55mm Kit Lens
Nikkor 55-200mm VR Lens
Nikkor 18-105mm VR Lens
Nikkor 70-300mm VR Lens
Nikon SB-600 speedlight
Nikon EM Film SLR
50mm Lens
85mm Lens
Canon Powershot SX100IS
Yes please lets keep this thread a little more civilized... I do not want any of your careers or mine for that matter be in jeapordy if someone googles this thread.
Nikkor 18-55mm Kit Lens
Nikkor 55-200mm VR Lens
Nikkor 18-105mm VR Lens
Nikkor 70-300mm VR Lens
Nikon SB-600 speedlight
Nikon EM Film SLR
50mm Lens
85mm Lens
Canon Powershot SX100IS
One: If you think this crowd is tough, try a disappointed client. For the most part the advice you have received has been sound and well intentioned.
Two: OK, let me take a stab at helping you.
Preparation:
Look at lots of wedding photography sites. Start with some of the sites of the members in this thread. Figure out what you like and don't like. Look for patterns. After a while you will notice that 70% of all shots are the same. This can also be confirmed with comparing various checklists for shots. Part of your success will be to anticipate 2-3 shots ahead. Since you lack first hand experience, look at others work again and again so you can get a feel for the experience and what to look for on your shoot.
Shot checklists can easily reach 150+. I have no doubt that you are a bright young man, but you can not grasp all of those details in real time. Make up a short list of must haves like:
Bride and Father entering (if you miss this one, don't even bother showing up at the reception)
Ceremony kiss
The toast
The cake
The first dance
Narrow it down to 20-30 that you can study so as to build your confidence. You will shoot many many more, this just ensure you don't miss any key shots.
Practice: What ever gear you are using, you should practice with it. Get a willing model, dress her in a white outfit and practice. Inside, outside. It sounds like you have been doing a bit of work already - just keep it up and critically evaluate your own work and give it to others to do as well. If you can't or won't post on the forum, send some shots to my email address.
If possible, ensure your primary and back up camera and flash are the same so you don't have to switch mental gears when you switch cameras. Try different flash modes. CLS is very cool, but it can be fooled, especially in bal fill flash.
Execution:
This is of course the hard part. Do not be lulled into thinking that the renewal service will be easier than the full wedding. It may have less flowers, but it is still a scripted event here a couple of tips.
There are 4 main phases to shooting the wedding, each with its own style and requirements.
A. Bridal preparation (1-2 hours)
B. Ceremony (30 minutes to 1 hour)
C. Formals (30 minutes - guests are waiting!)
D. Reception (1-3 hours)
- Its about the bride
- Never ever place the bride in direct sun
- Bounce off of white ceiling if possible. Make sure its white
- Shoot RAW (Bring plenty of memory)
- Look for open shade, southern exposure windows etc.
- In general, shoot wide open for any portrait style shots - narrow DOF will tend to be more romantic as well as perhaps hide the Holiday Inn surroundings. Stop down for the group. Remember that regardless of your chosen flash, shooting at small apertures will require greater flash output, lengthen recycle times, burn through batteries faster, and in some cases contribute to flash overheating.
- check out the location early. Ask the hotel if you can take some practice shots. Offer to use the manager as a stand in. If they are pleasant enough this will help build rapport and perhaps even a future referral.
- In general shoot on the tight side - this will give you more to work with in post. You WILL do post, even if they want to do the print.
Speaking of prints, she probably thinks that CVS will be her best deal. Recently my own daughter took one of my portrait shots of her to Walmart.
Finally: I sense you want to do a good job or you would not have reached out and taken some of this critical feedback. I would only offer this: Your attitude should be that you want to not just a do a good job, but rather do an amazing kick-a$$ job that leaves your client blown away. Strive for artistic and technical excellence in every single job, every single shot. Easy words, but creating a standard of excellence for your work will only help you in this job or the jobs to come.
If you want to discuss any of this further, shoot me an email. Its listed on my site. I usually don't do lengthy replies, but had a client cancel today due to sickness. So there it is.
All the best.
www.nathanparkerphotography.com
I think I've said all I really feel like I can say in this thread. Nothing that's been posted has made me change my mind, best of luck to you.
I agree that this thread is nothing compared to a angry client.
haha oh lol. You're spot on.
Flickr
Smugmug
It does not matter if the bride has 200.00 dollars or 5,0000 dollars. A wedding is a wedding.
It does not matter if you are.
Doing it for free
Doing it for cheap
Doing it for 2,000 dollars
Doing it with a point and shoot
Doing it with a DSLR.
Why, beause anyone can sue you for any reason, they may not win, but they can still try.
Get Insurance, why because when a kid or that 86 year old grandma trips over your stuff, you get sued and you can lose EVERYTHING.
Why because even if you said hey Im not a wedding photographer and they said ok its not a problem, well to bad, they can still sue.
Owner/Photographer
Expose The Moment
Had a list of gear, now its to long, so lets say I have 2 bags and 15,000 worth of stuff.
Terms and Conditions
ENTIRE AGREEMENT: This agreement contains the entire understanding between STUDIO NAME HERE and the CLIENT. It supersedes all prior and simultaneous agreements between the parties. The only way to add or change this agreement is to do so in writing, signed by all the parties. ____________Initials
RETAINER AND PAYMENT: Upon your signature, STUDIO NAME HERE will reserve the time and date agreed upon, and will not make other reservations for that time and date. For this reason the non-refundable retainer payment of $500.00 dollars is non-refundable, even if date is changed or wedding cancelled for any reason, including acts of God, fire, strike, and extreme weather. The retainer payment is to be paid at time of signing the contract. The retainer payment is applied towards the contracted wedding photography package. The remaining balance is broken into two payments. One payment 90 days prior to the wedding date and the last payment 14 days prior to the wedding date. Client understands and agrees that the entire amount owed for the wedding photography package described in the contract is due no later than (2) weeks before the Wedding Day. Client agrees if the balance is not paid by this time, STUDIO NAME HERE will NOT photograph the Wedding Day described on the contract with no liability to STUDIO NAME HERE and loss of all payments by the Client. Acceptable forms of payment include cash, personal checks and money orders. Credit Cards are accepted thru PayPal. A $50.00 fee with be charged for any returned bank checks. There is a $35 late payment fee for any payments that are not postmarked or delivered to STUDIO NAME HERE by the required date. ____________Initials
CANCELLATION: Written notification from the client is necessary in order to cancel the contracted services. All payments on this contract are non-refundable including the non-refundable retainer. A full refund minus the non-refundable retainer will only be issued if the date is re-booked at or above the cost of this contract. Any requests for a refund must be in writing and mailed to STUDIO NAME HERE. If the conditions above have been met STUDIO NAME HERE will issue a refund of all payments made except the non-refundable retainer in the form of a check with-in 90 days. ____________Initials
PHOTOGRAPHIC COVERAGE & RESTRICTIONS: All photographic coverage will be provided in accordance with the package contents outlined on page one. The CLIENT recognizes that weddings are dynamic and fast moving events. The Studio cannot guarantee that any specific photograph will be produced. Due to the limited and subjective nature of the event, neither PHOTOGRAPHERS NAME or STUDIO NAME HERE can be held responsible for requested photographs not taken or missed, lack of coverage resulting from weather conditions, or schedule complications caused by but not limited to, anyone in or at the event, or by the church or location restrictions. Please note that we do not stage or choreograph specific events throughout the day. The photographer is not responsible for lost photo opportunities due to other cameras or flashes, the lateness of the bride, groom, or other principles. The Photographer is not responsible for the lack of coverage due to weather conditions, scheduling complications due to lateness of individuals, rules and restrictions of venue, or the rendering of decorations of the location. It is acknowledged that any lists submitted to PHOTOGRAPHERS NAME and/or STUDIO NAME HERE will be used for organizational purposes only and in no way represents photography that will actually be produced. STUDIO NAME HERE will do its best to fulfill all requests but can make no guarantees all images will be delivered. Clients are responsible for all location fees and permits. The Studio shall be granted artistic license in relation to the poses photographed and the locations used. The Studio will not be held responsible for the lack of coverage caused for the following reasons: The Bride, Groom or wedding party not being on time, members of the wedding party are unavailable when called or a shot, if the wedding is running late or if restrictions regarding photography at the desired location of the wedding are in force. Due to the vagaries of the weather and the willingness of the subject/s it may not be possible to capture all the images requested by the client. The Studio with the co operation of the client will do their best to produce coverage of the wedding in the time allocated to them. ____________Initials
GUEST BEHAVIOR: STUDIO NAME HERE will not tolerate verbally or physically abusive behavior, nor will it share its time or compete with guest photographers for the attention of the subjects. Unchecked guest conduct that interferes with photography will seriously affect the quality of the photographs taken and increase the number of photos that must be created. If the CLIENT is unable to control the conduct of their guests or if the conduct of any of their guests damages the equipment of the photographer, it will result in the early or immediate departure of the photographer. We understand that in such an event, no refunds will result. ____________Initials
CREATIVE LICENSE: Images are edited at the photographer’s discretion, and delivered prints may not include all images shot. The photographer reserves the creative right to edit and release only those deemed creditable as professional in quality and within the photographer’s artistic standards. ____________Initials
TOUCH UPS: Although diligent efforts are made to avoid environmental problems and effects, all client-requested photographic touchups or alterations not included in the purchased product will only be performed at the client’s expense. Such retouching may include but is not limited to, correction of hair/make up, environmental effects such as light fixtures, wall sockets, etc., clothing, reflections in glasses, opening closed eyes, removal/insertion of family members, hired wedding personnel, fixtures etc. ____________Initials
PHOTOGRAPHS – COLOR CORRECTION – EXPOSURE: The Studio takes the utmost care with respect to the exposure, editing and production of all our products and services offered. Every effort will be made to assure satisfaction according to the Studio’s professional standards. However, the Studio is not responsible for subjective interpretations of photography. ____________Initials
DIGITAL NEGATIVES, PRINTS and COPYRIGHTS: The photographs, digital negatives or prints produced by STUDIO NAME HERE are protected by Federal Copyright Law (all rights reserved) and may not be reproduced in any manner without STUDIO NAME HEREs explicitly written permission. The Client must obtain written permission from and compensate STUDIO NAME HERE prior to the CLIENT or its friends and relatives publishing or selling the photographs for profit. ____________Initials
MODEL RELEASE: The CLIENT hereby grants to STUDIO NAME HERE and its legal representatives and assigns, the irrevocable and unrestricted right to use and publish photographs of the CLIENT or in which the CLIENT may be included, for editorial, trade, advertising and any other purpose and in any manner and medium; to alter the same without restriction; and to copyright the same. The CLIENT hereby releases STUDIO NAME HERE and its legal representatives and assigns from all claims and liability relating to said photographs. ____________Initials
EXCLUSIVITY / GUEST PHOTOGRAPHY: STUDIO NAME HERE shall be the exclusive photographer retained by the Client for the purpose of photographing the wedding. NO PICTURES DURING ANY FORMAL SESSION SET UP BY PHOTOGRAPHER: Three things can happen during formals that will be detrimental to both time and the resulting picture quality—a) people asking me to stop to take pictures with their cameras, b) people looking in other directions than the camera’s direction, and c) the usage of multiple flashes. People constantly asking for the photo session to stop so that they can take pictures will only get you to your reception later. Turned heads will make people look like they aren’t paying attention in pictures. Also, multiple flashes firing when my camera does could ruin your pictures because too many will make your pictures bright and blue. Because of all these things, we need to find a way to control the unknown; to do this; we prevent pictures from being taken during any formal session. Please be sure to communicate this to your family at your rehearsal dinner or whenever you see them. ____________Initials
CD/DVD STORAGE: Due to the lack of information about how long CDs/DVDs can hold information, STUDIO NAME HERE recommends you back up your images on another media format other than CD/DVD. STUDIO NAME HERE also recommends making multiple copies of CDs/DVDs every year to insure the images for years to come. STUDIO NAME HERE cannot be held responsible for the failure of CDs/DVDs due to mishandling. It is the client’s responsibility to keep several copies of any CDs/DVDs in more than one location, and back the images up on another format such as a hard drive. ____________Initials
ALBUM PROOFING: Once the design process has begun it's possible during the busy wedding season that it could take up to six months for your completed album to be returned to you. Your album will be custom-designed by a professional album designer. The professional album designer will custom design and layout your album using your wedding pictures. When the album design and layout is complete, I will then supply you a website address, where you may view the design and make any comments directly on the website to the album designer. You are allowed up to 10 photo swaps, after the 10th swap there will be a design charge of $15.00 dollars per photo swap. If you decide to redesign a page there will be a charge of $25.00 dollars per page, a two page spread is a page on left side & right side that would be $50.00 dollars. ____________Initials
MEALS: It is customary to provide a meal for the photography team. The meal should be timed with the wedding couple's main course so that no photo opportunities are missed while the photographer and crew eat. The photography team consists of 1 person unless you also booked us for additional services/options, in which case the team could consist of 4 people. Please refer to the studio services on page 1 for verification of photography team. If dinner cannot be provided the photography team will need to leave the premises for up to 90 minutes and is not responsible for any missed events not photographed during this time frame. ____________Initials
PRODUCT DELIVERY & PRICE LOCK: Upon notification, the clients must arrange for pick-up and delivery of albums prints and other products within a reasonable time period, not to exceed 30 days after notification. Client is responsible for any and all shipping charges and insurance is mandatory. STUDIO NAME HERE is not responsible for any damage that may be incurred while the proofs and/or other final products are in storage after said 30 days. The terms of this agreement are valid for 6 months after the date of the event. If no correspondence has been received by that date, this agreement will be considered completed in full. STUDIO NAME HERE cannot be held liable in the event that photographic materials are damaged in the processing, lost/damaged in the mail, or otherwise lost or damaged without fault on the part of the photographer. No money will be reimbursed. All prices are locked in for 6 months. After 6 months prices are subject to change. ____________Initials
PARKING: Reasonable Parking allocations are essential for optimal coverage. With our equipment and time requirements for preparation, it would be greatly appreciated. This allows us to move safely and swiftly to be in ―all places at once‖. Any Parking fees incurred on the day of filming will be invoiced to The Client at a later date. STUDIO NAME HERE cannot be held liable for lateness if parking is not within the general vicinity of any given event. ____________Initials
RIGHT OF WITHDRAWAL: The studio's discovery of new information, changes, or other factors tending to circumvent its policies could result in its withdrawal. Non-cooperation; changes of locations, facilities or times available; missed appointments; bad or returned checks, or late payments are examples of contributing factors. Should the studio initiate the withdrawal, all fees and deposits will be returned, excepting fair market value for all services/products already provided. In case of withdrawal, $75 an hour is billed for all photography services already provided, and $20 an hour is billed for all other services, consultations, and all driving time, rounded up to the nearest half-hour. If the studio withdraws the client will not be billed for any services in excess of their deposits (except if deposit was in form of returned checks). ____________Initials
PHOTOGRAPHER: STUDIO NAME HERE may substitute another photographer to take the photographs in the event of Photographer's illness or of scheduling conflicts. In the event of such substitution STUDIO NAME HERE, warrants that the Photographer taking the photographs shall be a competent professional. ____________Initials
LIMIT OF LIABILITY: If STUDIO NAME HERE cannot perform this Agreement due to a fire or other casualty, strike, act of God, or other cause beyond the control of the parties, or due to Photographer's illness, then STUDIO NAME HERE shall return any balance paid, above the retainer, to the Client, but shall have no further liability with respect to the Agreement. This limitation on liability shall also apply in the event that photographic materials are damaged in processing, lost through camera malfunction, lost in the mail, fire or otherwise lost or damaged without fault on the part of STUDIO NAME HERE. In the event STUDIO NAME HERE fails to perform for any other reason, STUDIO NAME HERE shall not be liable for any amount in excess of the retail value of the Client's order. ____________Initials
MISCELLANY: This Agreement and the attached pricing structure incorporates the entire understanding of the parties. Any modifications of this Agreement must be in writing and signed by both parties. Any waiver of a breach or default hereunder shall not be deemed a waiver of a subsequent breach or default of either the same provision or any other provision of this Agreement. This Agreement shall be governed by the laws of the State of New Hampshire. ____________Initials
Owner/Photographer
Expose The Moment
Had a list of gear, now its to long, so lets say I have 2 bags and 15,000 worth of stuff.
If you have to hire an attorney to fight a lawsuit, the cost will be in the many thousands of dollars and like the previous poster said, if grandma trips on your equipment and breaks something, the cost of hiring medical experts, etc. will be expensive.
Even if you are 100% in the right, someone can still sue you and that's where the major cost often can be. There is no bar to filing even a frivolous lawsuit. If you do nothing else, be smart and get insurance.
My Gear
My Websites - Personal www.ericsmemories.com |"Professional" www.vividphotography.org
My Favorite Photos - Chicago, NYC, DC, London, Prague, Alaska, Yellowstone, Glacier NP, Vermont, Mt. Rushmore, Badlands NP, The Appalachian Trail
I'm not the only lawyer on this forum!
And I am finding myself in the situation of having been asked to photograph a friends wedding. I have kept insisting that 'just because the camera is big doesnt mean I know how to use it!' or 'hire a pro anyway' and I've even sent the bride to read the first page of this website: http://www.rokkorfiles.com/Wedding101-page1.html
She still insists, so I'm taking this as an opportunity to make a qualitative leap in my capabilities. It's in May, so I will spend all weekends practicing, reading books like the Neil van Niekerk one (recommended to the original poster!!!) and my wife is constantly being covered with all kinds of bounce flash, asked to dress in white clothes, etc. etc.
Disappointed with AF of Tamron 28-75 2.8, me less happy.
The D40 and D40X aren't the same cameras. Actually,I think the D40 is superior because of the fact that Nikon includes the 1/500 Flash sync speed on the D40, but on the D40X uses 1/200. In fact, I don't know of another digital camera that does the 1/500. Also, I notice more noise on the D60(D40X) sensor than the D40 sensor in low-light conditions, I think it's the extra pixels jammed onto the same sensor area.
"Don't worry when you are not recognized, but strive to be worthy of recognition."
-- Abraham Lincoln
FYI the d50 did 1/500 out of the box, the higher end cameras have the high sync setting that eliminates low sync issues if they are a problem.
It's not what you look at that matters: Its what you see!
Nikon
http://www.time2smile.smugmug.com
D200 only goes to 1/250th.
D3 is 1/250th
However, read this for higher/faster speeds, http://nikonclspracticalguide.blogspot.com/2008/03/10-auto-fp-high-speed-sync-explained.html
the D700 and d3 have high speed sync or whatever they call it.
I can shoot flash at whatever shutter speed I want, it just has less power than at the normal setting. I always leave it on that setting.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21695902@N06/
http://500px.com/Shockey
alloutdoor.smugmug.com
http://aoboudoirboise.smugmug.com/
Not only are you rude, but apparently, your not a man of your word either...Its people like you that discourage posts.
Eric, if you have some kind of problem, let the rest of us know, maybe we could help. Or at least, if you have nothing beneficial to say, don't say anything...
It's not what you look at that matters: Its what you see!
Nikon
http://www.time2smile.smugmug.com
Maybe, you should read the article, a little slower, to understand FP.
It's not what you look at that matters: Its what you see!
Nikon
http://www.time2smile.smugmug.com
That's true at night, but in shooting at high noon with full sun, you need the 1/500 with fill flash to get an appropriate exposure at more than 10 - 15 feet, which is where having 1/500 is better than not. When you do events that are happening at that time of the day, the D40 is superior to the D90 (for example) from my experience for that reason.
"Don't worry when you are not recognized, but strive to be worthy of recognition."
-- Abraham Lincoln
Turn the FP on in the D90 and you can shoot at any shutter speed you want with a flash, just remember that it does cut down power levels, but according to the practical guide, its still effective to 1/1600 to 8 to 10 ft.
It's not what you look at that matters: Its what you see!
Nikon
http://www.time2smile.smugmug.com
Rude? More like honest and upfront. Not my problem if some people are overly sensitive to the truth. I'm just looking for some examples of his work, that's all. Still nothing. Seems like if he felt like he was capable (which he says he is, confidence is key) then he would put up some pictures to show us..
I'll try again...side by side, I was able to reach a better balanced fill using the D40 with the natural higher shutter speed because I didn't have to sacrifice flash power.
"Don't worry when you are not recognized, but strive to be worthy of recognition."
-- Abraham Lincoln
If the original poster is around, I wanted to ask them a question regarding the 18-135 lens since I was looking at it recently. If not, no problem.
"Don't worry when you are not recognized, but strive to be worthy of recognition."
-- Abraham Lincoln
I understand my D50 has that benefit also with the 1/500 sync, but it doenst have the FP option.
It's not what you look at that matters: Its what you see!
Nikon
http://www.time2smile.smugmug.com
It needs to be cranked up (sb800) but works just great. If it is a really large group sometimes I will use two of them.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21695902@N06/
http://500px.com/Shockey
alloutdoor.smugmug.com
http://aoboudoirboise.smugmug.com/
It could be the lack of power in the SB600 compared to the SB800, though, and that's what I'm seeing.
"Don't worry when you are not recognized, but strive to be worthy of recognition."
-- Abraham Lincoln
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
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