Fotoworx, no one disagrees with the fact that Canon doesn't consider those bodies "Pro" in the Australia area. It just ins't true everywhere.
I think it's ridiculous of Canon Australia.
I know a few people from Australian forums that shoot weddings entirely with their 5DMKII's and are ineligible for CPS membership because Canon Australia don't deem these professionals (their entire income is derived from wedding photography) to own professional bodies.
Seriously, i think one cannot rely on manufacturer's definitions for everything, it is just marketing. Using CPS and attracting people to register with them also helps canon to understand market segments precisely, and keep loyalty of deep pocket guys with them.
I think if something is made to meet industry standards then it qualifies to call as professional gear. For fashion industry it would be something else, for sports it would be something else.
Just compare flickr and smugmug's pro accounts, both market their best accounts as pro, and we know very well who is providing services according to industry standards and who is not.
Thine is the beauty of light; mine is the song of fire. Thy beauty exalts the heart; my song inspires the soul. Allama Iqbal
but those Rebels have the sensor (or better) as the expensive models!
Yeah, which is why I generally don't dump on DSLR bodies. Unless we're talking sports or wildlife or a subject that demands pro AF (which it seems the 7D has!).
Otherwise I think the lens is the bigger factor.
-Jack
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
For those old enough to remember.....in 1980 the Canon AE-1 (not program) was the "Official" camera of the Olympics....that was considered at the time a serious "pro" camera. I owned one and sold it around 5-6 years ago. Bought it new in 1980! That camera shot many portraits, some weddings and a ton of landscapes. The shutter hung up a few times, the rewind squeeked, basically, I used the soup out of it.
The new 7D is quite a remarkable camera, the focusing is fabulous and build quality, wonderful. Put a battery grip on that and you have a serious camera in your hands that will withstand everyday use and allow for phenominal images. I have a buddy (a professional sports shooter) who uses the MK II N and now is using the 7D, thinking of getting a second. I've shot with it and if Canon would come out with those features on a full frame for the price of the 5D MKII, I'd be all over it in a heartbeat.
The pro vs. consumer grade label is somewhat silly. Build quality is important but hey, shooting a 5D, not weather sealed, slow low light focus should be considered sub-pro too.
The reason I passed on the first gen 5D was that it was only represented by Canon as high level amateur or "Pro-Sumer" camera at the time. So what does this mean? At that time ownership of a 5D (alone) did NOT qualify you to be a CPS member, and I think any 2500-2700 dollar piece of camera equipment should qualify as a "pro" model. I know that Canon just went through a huge CPS restructure and relaunch and I am not sure of the new requirements. I think the fact that the 7D was not a replacement for the 50D indicates that the 7D is at least on the level of the 5D MkII in "proYness". That being said, I am seriously considering the 7D at least until Canon releases a 24-70 f2.8 IS L, the 17-55 IS EF-S is my warhorse, I'm only my THIRD IS unit in the beast and it has utterly and irreversibly changed the way I shoot. The only things holding me back from a 7D purchase is the availability of good 1D Mk III and 1DS MK II bodies, and the change in battery and grip from the xxD series cameras. If I did end up getting a FF or 1.3 body I would still use my 40D as my goto standard zoom flash camera and the 1D/S body as a natural light prime camera. I too am firmly in the camp that the camera doesn't mean anything about the photographer, but how the camera owner is treated by the camera manufacturer does matter.
cliff notes: CPS in all markets but Australia classify the 7D as a qualifying product to register for the CPS program.
note to self: Do not travel to Australia with your 7D if you want to look like someone carrying professional camera equipment in the CPS program's eyes.
Canon 7D and some stuff that sticks on the end of it.
cliff notes: CPS in all markets but Australia classify the 7D as a qualifying product to register for the CPS program.
note to self: Do not travel to Australia with your 7D if you want to look like someone carrying professional camera equipment in the CPS program's eyes.
That's probably because, as far as I know, there is no universal definition of 'pro camera'. What may be 'pro' to me, is different from how you see it.
I like to take this one further.
For this particular wedding pose, one has to lay on his belly to capture the shot. This guy, with his 7D and no tilt screen, was lazy to prone and not to dirty his clothes, give it a miss.
I took it by simply squatting down using my girlish magenta GH1 with tilt screen and that shot won me a magazine cover !!
What is it that you don't get? So what if professionals are using it. Whats that got to do with anything?
In the same manner.......So What that Canon Australia doesn't consider it a pro-body......Australia is just tiny market compared to the US and European markets that do consider it a pro body.......
There you loose....the 7D is a pro body in the largest of the markets.....therefore by majority it wins as a PRO Body.....and Awais is a Pro Photographer creating extremely beautiful works of art that are being published in his country.........
Also if you look at the product booklet Andy is holding that is the PRO booklet and the red squared item is the 7D......that booklet is published by Canon For Canonites and possible canon converts......
In the same manner.......So What that Canon Australia doesn't consider it a pro-body......Australia is just tiny market compared to the US and European markets that do consider it a pro body.......
There you loose....the 7D is a pro body in the largest of the markets.....therefore by majority it wins as a PRO Body.....and Awais is a Pro Photographer creating extremely beautiful works of art that are being published in his country.........
Also if you look at the product booklet Andy is holding that is the PRO booklet and the red squared item is the 7D......that booklet is published by Canon For Canonites and possible canon converts......
Well according to your theory, it could just very well be that Canon holds Australian professional photographers in a higher regard than the rest of the world.....there you lose
Well according to your theory, it could just very well be that Canon holds Australian professional photographers in a higher regard than the rest of the world.....there you lose
The new 7D is quite a remarkable camera, the focusing is fabulous and build quality, wonderful. Put a battery grip on that and you have a serious camera in your hands that will withstand everyday use and allow for phenominal images.
Just wondering, why do you think that the battery grip is necessary for withstanding everyday use and producing phenomenal images. I thought it just extended the time until you needed to change batteries. I guess it makes it look more like a 1d though, if that's what you're after?
<< thought it just extended the time until you needed to change batteries >>
Also duplicates various controls to make camera use in portrait mode easier / more comfortable and the additional weight can help balance with bigger lenses - although adding a grip affects available angles in macro when resting cam on same surface as subject.
No idea about the 7D grip - but the 40D one has some reliability issues and a history of bits inside breaking, making it difficult to remove the grip.
A 1D/s series has surely got to be better from the environmental sealing pov on this issue tho
Well according to your theory, it could just very well be that Canon holds Australian professional photographers in a higher regard than the rest of the world.....there you lose
<< thought it just extended the time until you needed to change batteries >>
Also duplicates various controls to make camera use in portrait mode easier / more comfortable and the additional weight can help balance with bigger lenses - although adding a grip affects available angles in macro when resting cam on same surface as subject.
No idea about the 7D grip - but the 40D one has some reliability issues and a history of bits inside breaking, making it difficult to remove the grip.
A 1D/s series has surely got to be better from the environmental sealing pov on this issue tho
pp
Grip is a big help as you say - never had a problem with mine on a 40D or a 20D for that matter.
The portrait shooting is the big plus - being able to hold the camera in a "normal" position. Extra battery time helps too.
Just more comfortable to use generally although can get heavy after extended use.
THe latest CPN mag states "Autumn 2009 was a busy time for cannon with the announcement of two additions to the EOS range - The High Spec Professional DSLR, the EOS-1D Mk IV and the versatile EOS 7D........
Further on.... The 7D is aimed at the enthusiast or the professional as a backup!
Comments
I think it's ridiculous of Canon Australia.
I know a few people from Australian forums that shoot weddings entirely with their 5DMKII's and are ineligible for CPS membership because Canon Australia don't deem these professionals (their entire income is derived from wedding photography) to own professional bodies.
Bear
Some of my photos on Flickr
My Facebook
And that lays the issue, especially for fotoworx. Canon corporate needs to set a standard for all their CPS regions.
www.tednghiem.com
I think if something is made to meet industry standards then it qualifies to call as professional gear. For fashion industry it would be something else, for sports it would be something else.
Just compare flickr and smugmug's pro accounts, both market their best accounts as pro, and we know very well who is providing services according to industry standards
My Gallery
Yeah, which is why I generally don't dump on DSLR bodies. Unless we're talking sports or wildlife or a subject that demands pro AF (which it seems the 7D has!).
Otherwise I think the lens is the bigger factor.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
The new 7D is quite a remarkable camera, the focusing is fabulous and build quality, wonderful. Put a battery grip on that and you have a serious camera in your hands that will withstand everyday use and allow for phenominal images. I have a buddy (a professional sports shooter) who uses the MK II N and now is using the 7D, thinking of getting a second. I've shot with it and if Canon would come out with those features on a full frame for the price of the 5D MKII, I'd be all over it in a heartbeat.
The pro vs. consumer grade label is somewhat silly. Build quality is important but hey, shooting a 5D, not weather sealed, slow low light focus should be considered sub-pro too.
It's not and neither is the 7D.
NAPP Member | Canon Shooter
Weddings/Portraits and anything else that catches my eye.
www.daveswartz.com
Model Mayhem site http://www.modelmayhem.com/686552
The reason I passed on the first gen 5D was that it was only represented by Canon as high level amateur or "Pro-Sumer" camera at the time. So what does this mean? At that time ownership of a 5D (alone) did NOT qualify you to be a CPS member, and I think any 2500-2700 dollar piece of camera equipment should qualify as a "pro" model. I know that Canon just went through a huge CPS restructure and relaunch and I am not sure of the new requirements. I think the fact that the 7D was not a replacement for the 50D indicates that the 7D is at least on the level of the 5D MkII in "proYness". That being said, I am seriously considering the 7D at least until Canon releases a 24-70 f2.8 IS L, the 17-55 IS EF-S is my warhorse, I'm only my THIRD IS unit in the beast and it has utterly and irreversibly changed the way I shoot. The only things holding me back from a 7D purchase is the availability of good 1D Mk III and 1DS MK II bodies, and the change in battery and grip from the xxD series cameras. If I did end up getting a FF or 1.3 body I would still use my 40D as my goto standard zoom flash camera and the 1D/S body as a natural light prime camera. I too am firmly in the camp that the camera doesn't mean anything about the photographer, but how the camera owner is treated by the camera manufacturer does matter.
Canon CPS Australia does think the 5D & 5DMKII are sub-pro bodies.
Bear
Some of my photos on Flickr
My Facebook
note to self: Do not travel to Australia with your 7D if you want to look like someone carrying professional camera equipment in the CPS program's eyes.
......or New Zealand
Bear
Some of my photos on Flickr
My Facebook
good catch!
Aussies and Kiwis have a love hate/relationship.
Much like the U.S and Canada
Bear
Some of my photos on Flickr
My Facebook
I like to take this one further.
For this particular wedding pose, one has to lay on his belly to capture the shot. This guy, with his 7D and no tilt screen, was lazy to prone and not to dirty his clothes, give it a miss.
I took it by simply squatting down using my girlish magenta GH1 with tilt screen and that shot won me a magazine cover !!
Which camera is more pro ?
In the same manner.......So What that Canon Australia doesn't consider it a pro-body......Australia is just tiny market compared to the US and European markets that do consider it a pro body.......
There you loose....the 7D is a pro body in the largest of the markets.....therefore by majority it wins as a PRO Body.....and Awais is a Pro Photographer creating extremely beautiful works of art that are being published in his country.........
Also if you look at the product booklet Andy is holding that is the PRO booklet and the red squared item is the 7D......that booklet is published by Canon For Canonites and possible canon converts......
Well according to your theory, it could just very well be that Canon holds Australian professional photographers in a higher regard than the rest of the world.....there you lose
Bear
Some of my photos on Flickr
My Facebook
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
If memory seves me, you hate them every year when they beat you at footie?
Malte
Oh oh oh that was a bit below the belt mate
Bear
Some of my photos on Flickr
My Facebook
Only cameras applicable for Platinum membership are 5DII, 1DIII, 1DIV, 1DsIII
7D is permissable for silver level membership.
7D only suitable for Silver membership and my trusty old 20D doesn't even get a look in!
<table style="display: block;"><tbody><tr></tr></tbody><thead><tr> <th class="equipment"> Platinum</th> <th class="equipment"> Gold </th> <th class="equipment"> Silver</th> <th class="equipment"> Video</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr> <td class="productname">EOS 40D</td> <td class="equipment">
</td> <td class="equipment">
Thats interesting, so it's just not Canon Australia anymore.
Bear
Some of my photos on Flickr
My Facebook
Just wondering, why do you think that the battery grip is necessary for withstanding everyday use and producing phenomenal images. I thought it just extended the time until you needed to change batteries. I guess it makes it look more like a 1d though, if that's what you're after?
Also duplicates various controls to make camera use in portrait mode easier / more comfortable and the additional weight can help balance with bigger lenses - although adding a grip affects available angles in macro when resting cam on same surface as subject.
No idea about the 7D grip - but the 40D one has some reliability issues and a history of bits inside breaking, making it difficult to remove the grip.
A 1D/s series has surely got to be better from the environmental sealing pov on this issue tho
pp
Flickr
Grip is a big help as you say - never had a problem with mine on a 40D or a 20D for that matter.
The portrait shooting is the big plus - being able to hold the camera in a "normal" position. Extra battery time helps too.
Just more comfortable to use generally although can get heavy after extended use.
Further on.... The 7D is aimed at the enthusiast or the professional as a backup!
So it's not a pro camera, just a versatile backup