Help SmugMug add the facebook Like button

Baldy

Hey all,

At WPPI we had soooo many pros ask us for the facebook Like button in their galleries because so much of their marketing is now done on facebook. Many of our wedding pros have said they've pretty much dropped all other forms of marketing and just focus on facebook, booking all their weddings there.

And we're seeing threads like this because there is so much to be gained by facebook integration.

So the question is how to implement it. I think what most people want is something like this:



There is an easy way to do this that we hope you'll say is okay, and a harder way... First, the easy: we can just follow our current privacy settings and have the Like button appear when the share button does. Done.

The harder way is to add a global option for just the like button. And that could force a gallery option, too, because maybe you want it for your portfolio but not some other gallery?

The reason that's hard is people who are new to SmugMug or haven't mastered all the options are overwhelmed by how many there are. And everything gets harder to test and keep bug free for each new option we add to gallery and global settings.

So our vote is to have it appear when the share button does. Your thoughts.

Thanks!
Baldy

rsquared

The easy option looks great!!

jfriend

I see several issues I think you need to consider:

• I think you're right to think of Easy Sharing and Like as the same class of feature. But, I don't see how you can assume that every user wants the same setting for both.
• There are still people in the world (some of them likely your customers) who don't do Facebook or don't want their galleries connected to FB. Your option to hook the FB Like button to the Share button doesn't give a standard user any way to have Share, but not Like and requires Power or Pro users to know CSS to do something different. I wouldn't think you'd want it that way.
• Unlisted galleries should not show Like by default (even if Sharing is enabled) because that allows someone else you've shared the gallery with to pretty easily (perhaps inadvertently with one click) make your gallery pretty public perhaps without realizing they were doing it.
• Is it possible to Like a single photo, a gallery, a sub-category, a category or a site and make it clear what a user is selecting for Like? The current Share/FB mode that only lets you share a single photo in a gallery and nothing else is really, really lacking and I assume the same will be true of Like.

This all leads me to say that the "easiest way" you can make it for users to control the Like button is to offer a gallery setting (and probably a global setting) for it. Avoiding this will not really be making Smugmug easier.

If you really think that there are too many Smugmug options now for new users, then I'd suggest that you start considering a Beginner and Advanced mode. The beginner mode lets you simply the settings to only the things that new users really need to know about so they don't get overwhelmed. The advanced mode allows you to offer users who want to see more options a checkbox control over things that would either not be customizable at all or would require custom CSS (neither of which is easier than a checkbox).

denisegoldberg

I'm one of those users who wants nothing to do with Facebook.

I currently have the share button hidden unless I'm logged in, although I'm not naive enough to think that people won't use a tool like web dev to see my site without my customizations if they wanted to enable the hidden share button.

My vote would be for separate control over whether a Facebook link shows. There are occasions where I do want to enable the share button, but I don't want to enable a Facebook link.

--- Denise

Malte

I'm also for separate.

Malte

mrcoons

I market on Facebook but I see the wisdom of Denise's point. Separation would be needed.

Luc De Jaeger

Because there are so many different SmugMug users with so many different tastes and needs, I think SmugMug should ALWAYS try to make sure that whatever they incorporate or add should be as flexible and customizable as possible with as many options as is programmable/imagineable/doable.

I myself would like a 'like it' button (not a greyed out one but a visible one) for individual photos, galleries, categories. I'd like it to work with my FB business page too but I'm not sure if this works or if FB permits this.

I have made the decision (mostly for copyright reasons) not to show the share button on my smugmug site (through css customization) but it's still enabled in my gallery settings. Not sure what it may mean when the 'like it' button is linked to the share button (even if the share button is not visible to the visitors). Will it interfere?

Anyway, my point is to program anything you envision with all possible settings and options so that almost everyone can find him- or herself in the additions and updates. You can go gradually, with the easiest part first and later on changing for the more difficult part (and hopefully this will not interfere with the first part).

Luc

pilotdave

I add it myself to my gallery descriptions. I couldn't get it to work with individual photos (in captions) which is what I originally wanted to do. But adding it to gallery descriptions was very easy.

I do think control should be at the gallery level, separate from any other features.

Edit: In case anyone wants to know, to add a Like button to your gallery description just add:





There are some options facebook offers to change the look of it, but that's what I went with. Clean and simple. Takes up a little more room than I'd like. I'm sure someone could do better with some CSS.

Dave

PBolchover

I live in a part of the world where Facebook is blocked. From my point of view, you need to ensure that if Facebook is not available, it does not effect smugmug performance. (We already have issues with facebook authentication of comments - there is an old DGrin thread about it...)

WinsomeWorks

pilotdave wrote: »

I add it myself to my gallery descriptions. I couldn't get it to work with individual photos (in captions) which is what I originally wanted to do. But adding it to gallery descriptions was very easy.

I do think control should be at the gallery level, separate from any other features.

Edit: In case anyone wants to know, to add a Like button to your gallery description just add:

<html><br><br><fb:like show_faces="false"></fb:like></html>

There are some options facebook offers to change the look of it, but that's what I went with. Clean and simple. Takes up a little more room than I'd like. I'm sure someone could do better with some CSS.

Dave

Could you give us a link to your site here so we could see what that looks like, Dave? And I assume if a person clicks on it, thumbs from the whole gallery will show up on FB? Have you seen what it looks like once it shows up on FB?

jayceeco

I would take any solution asap as I need it desperately in my marketing. That said, I think separate from Sharing would be the way to go.

Brendan

Nothing to add to what John & others have said, but for the record, I'd also prefer a separate toggle for the Facebook Like button. I also like the idea of a "Beginner" vs. "Advanced" toggle for gallery settings.

stlracing

Isn't there some java script that needs to be added for this too?

pilotdave wrote: »

I add it myself to my gallery descriptions. I couldn't get it to work with individual photos (in captions) which is what I originally wanted to do. But adding it to gallery descriptions was very easy.

I do think control should be at the gallery level, separate from any other features.

Edit: In case anyone wants to know, to add a Like button to your gallery description just add:

<html><br><br><fb:like show_faces="false"></fb:like></html>

There are some options facebook offers to change the look of it, but that's what I went with. Clean and simple. Takes up a little more room than I'd like. I'm sure someone could do better with some CSS.

Dave

pilotdave

stlracing wrote: »

Isn't there some java script that needs to be added for this too?

Sorry, you're right. Forgot about that...

I have this in my custom header:

<div id="fb-root"></div>
<script>
window.fbAsyncInit = function() {
    FB.init({appId: 'your app id', status: true, cookie: true,
             xfbml: true});
  };
  (function() {
    var e = document.createElement('script'); e.async = true;
    e.src = document.location.protocol +
      '//connect.facebook.net/en_US/all.js';
    document.getElementById('fb-root').appendChild(e);
  }());
</script>

When someone clicks it, their wall shows something like "[name] likes [gallery name]." with a link to the gallery.

Dave

stlracing

thanks.. that got it working...

SamirD

This is an interesting time in the Internet world. Everything is becoming "to be, or not to be, Facebook".

When it comes to features like this that have a very fast ROI for those that need it, and will be need adjustments no matter what the implementation, I say go the simplest and most easily customizable route. Lay the base code for the feature to be expanded, but don't write all that code now because no one truly knows what the 'killer demand' is going to be. If there is a way to implement the simple solution this way, let's start there. And then the feedback from those that use the feature will guide the evolution of the feature.

com3

integrate!!

most of my marketing is done on facebook. i've already integrated my other website (4theriders; which is all hand coded by me) with facebook, but i'd love to be able to do the same with seppes (hosted on smugmug) much easier.

BradfordBenn

I don't facebook currently. However I do share things. I do agree that having it controllable on a gallery by gallery level is the way I would prefer it.

WinsomeWorks

stlracing wrote: »

thanks.. that got it working...

Did you need to add something to FB itself as well, or not? I see that post is gone... just wondering whether what's left here on PilotDave's posts is sufficient.

WinsomeWorks

I would second what JFriend said about this, and also some other folks who see the reason for separation of these functions. I understand that those options may take longer and be more difficult though. Right now I can't see my way around the easy version --too many unwanted variables would creep in. I'm willing to wait for the good stuff! (esp. if I could temporarily put a "like" button some places on my site through code) I also had a few of the same questions about whether it would be possible to "like" different things-- a photo, a gallery, a category... Can't picture how that would work, but I'm sure some of you can. Good luck w/ the implementation. I can believe FB stuff is a pain to work with.

papajay

Not a pro.

Have FB, but am not a fan (probably because I don't really "get it" yet...and perhaps never will).

Partly due to all the hullaballoo in the past about FB's policies regarding photographs, and who owns them, etc., I've opted to keep FB and Smug completely separate...and want nothing to do with FB when it comes to photos or photo sharing.

So...if the "Like" button integration you are considering applies only to Pro accounts, I really don't care one way or the other what you do with it or how it works..

But...if the "Like" button integration is going to affect how my non-pro SmugMug site operates...or makes it easy for my invited guests to share my photos with univited FB "friends" without my knowledge or authorization, then count me out by default. Set it up so non-pro Smuggers can opt-in if they want to, but we shouldn't have to find out the hard way that our privacy has been compromised by a default opt-in functionality we didn't "vote" for.

stlracing

WinsomeWorks wrote: »

Did you need to add something to FB itself as well, or not? I see that post is gone... just wondering whether what's left here on PilotDave's posts is sufficient.

No, there was no need to do anything within Facebook itself.

peestandingup

jfriend wrote: »

If you really think that there are too many Smugmug options now for new users, then I'd suggest that you start considering a Beginner and Advanced mode. The beginner mode lets you simply the settings to only the things that new users really need to know about so they don't get overwhelmed. The advanced mode allows you to offer users who want to see more options a checkbox control over things that would either not be customizable at all or would require custom CSS (neither of which is easier than a checkbox).

I'll second that. Although I agree that any "Like" or "Retweet" buttons should be separate & live on their own, this is gonna add to the mounting interface thats becoming bloated as more & more features get tacked on. I actually remember talking about this years ago (cant remember what topic it was). I think the problem has been the interface has essentially stayed the exact same over the years, adding tweaks here, options there, etc. Now its a sorta mountain of big ugly menu buttons (sorry, just being honest) with tons of nested options inside of itself. Its not a good way to do things IMO for a lot of people who want things cleaner but still have a few of the basic options they really care about.

I tend to look at the bigger picture in my posts if you havent noticed. Yes, you need better social integration. Yes, Smugmug should be more open to sharing content & not being a walled-off "destination" site for every single user. But Im not sure just adding some buttons are gonna fix some of these things. I agree with jfriend about retooling the "modes" to make things simpler, and I'd also suggest that a reworking of the memberships & what each one offers is probably in order. Because a lot of what Standard & Power members get you can now find for free on other sites & frankly have better sharing & mobility options to boot. So there's hardly any incentive to pay now unless you're a Pro & are making a business out of selling your work online.

I'd hate to see you guys completely lose the non-Pro market segment.

jfriend

peestandingup wrote: »

I'll second that. Although I agree that any "Like" or "Retweet" buttons should be separate & live on their own, this is gonna add to the mounting interface thats becoming bloated as more & more features get tacked on. I actually remember talking about this years ago (cant remember what topic it was). I think the problem has been the interface has essentially stayed the exact same over the years, adding tweaks here, options there, etc. Now its a sorta mountain of big ugly menu buttons (sorry, just being honest) with tons of nested options inside of itself. Its not a good way to do things IMO for a lot of people who want things cleaner but still have a few of the basic options they really care about.

I tend to look at the bigger picture in my posts if you havent noticed. Yes, you need better social integration. Yes, Smugmug should be more open to sharing content & not being a walled-off "destination" site for every single user. But Im not sure just adding some buttons are gonna fix some of these things. I agree with jfriend about retooling the "modes" to make things simpler, and I'd also suggest that a reworking of the memberships & what each one offers is probably in order. Because a lot of what Standard & Power members get you can now find for free & frankly have better sharing options to boot. So there's hardly any incentive to pay now unless you're a Pro & are making a business out of selling your work online.

I'd hate to see you guys completely lose the non-Pro market segment.

I agree with much of what you wrote, but I'm curious where you get the equivalent of a Power account (unlimited storage and bandwidth, large images, ability to share originals, EZ Customizer, nearly limitless HTML/CSS customization, HD video, online support, no ads of any kind, etc...) for free? The Power account gets you the ability to have a custom domain name, HD video, Easy Customizer and HTML/CSS advanced customizationver the standard account. That seems like a pretty decent increase of standard for only an additional $2/mo ($20/yr). o

peestandingup

jfriend wrote: »

I agree with much of what you wrote, but I'm curious where you get the equivalent of a Power account (unlimited storage and bandwidth, large images, ability to share originals, EZ Customizer, nearly limitless HTML/CSS customization, HD video, online support, no ads of any kind, etc...) for free? The Power account gets you the ability to have a custom domain name, HD video, Easy Customizer and HTML/CSS advanced customizationver the standard account. That seems like a pretty decent increase of standard for only an additional $2/mo ($20/yr). o

A lot of blogs & "microblogs" are really starting to crank out these once pro-like features for free these days. And they're tying it all into social networking & mobility better than most sites, even seasoned veterans like Smugmug.

Let's take Posterous for instance. They have (all for free):

-Original file downloads/storage
-No ads
-Ability to use your own custom domain name
-Ability to use your own HTML/CSS
-HD videos (through download link). Doesnt do HD in native video player yet.
-Mobile site for iPhone/Android (webkit based) phones.

Smugmg would like you to believe that those features are worth paying for now, when really they're not that big of a deal anymore. Yes, back a couple years ago they were, but not anymore. Which is why I think they should reexamine their memberships.

Now, mind you this is just one example & these blogs arent meant to be full on photo/video hosting sites, which is why they dont advertise "unlimited storage" (although there's technically no limit on them either). But its still worth a mention because of the features that people expect these days & the ease of use for sharing & mobility use. Smugmug needs to get with it because it seems like they're not really progressing & are holding on too tight to the past.

We shouldnt even be commenting on this in the forum & giving advice to the founders of the company, they should just do it (esp this late in the game). Its kind of like they dont understand the market if they have to ask us what to do. Just implement these things already. People's heads wont explode, I promise.

Andy

peestandingup wrote: »

Its kind of like they dont understand the market if they have to ask us what to do. Just implement these things already. People's heads wont explode, I promise.

We'd like to try and get it right, and for that we always solicit customer feedback - have done so for years.

Andy

peestandingup wrote: »

Let's take Posterous for instance. They have (all for free):

-Original file downloads/storage
-No ads
-Ability to use your own custom domain name
-Ability to use your own HTML/CSS
-HD videos (through download link). Doesnt do HD in native video player yet.
-Mobile site for iPhone/Android (webkit based) phones.

I love ya Pee, but there's a world of difference H
m. Let's see.....

Different viewing styles for maximum photo gallery experience?

Automagic Image display sizing (SmugMungous ajax display)

Integrated commerce where you set prices and we pay out the profits ($millions) to our pros?

Integrated labs- true pro lab, Bay Photo, and EZPrints?

365-day a year Support Heros to answer questions from you and customers, no matter how small or large?

Pro Branding features on website, on print orders, thank you prints?

Image security and protection (variety at all levels)?

Extensive privacy controls?

Single and multiple image packages for Pros?

Event system for pros?

Worldwide content-delivery network that costs $millions to ensure speedy delivery of images and pages anywhere. We're a blazing fast website (as monitored by others, not by us!).



Tons more http://www.smugmug.com/photos/photo-sharing-features/

We really work hard to differentiate. We're 8+ years old and plan on being here 80 more.

peestandingup

Andy wrote: »

I love ya Pee, but there's a world of difference H
m. Let's see.....

Different viewing styles for maximum photo gallery experience?

Automagic Image display sizing (SmugMungous ajax display)

Integrated commerce where you set prices and we pay out the profits ($millions) to our pros?

Integrated labs- true pro lab, Bay Photo, and EZPrints?

365-day a year Support Heros to answer questions from you and customers, no matter how small or large?

Pro Branding features on website, on print orders, thank you prints?

Image security and protection (variety at all levels)?

Extensive privacy controls?

Single and multiple image packages for Pros?

Event system for pros?

Worldwide content-delivery network that costs $millions to ensure speedy delivery of images and pages anywhere. We're a blazing fast website (as monitored by others, not by us!).



Tons more http://www.smugmug.com/photos/photo-sharing-features/

We really work hard to differentiate. We're 8+ years old and plan on being here 80 more.

Well yeah, but those are almost all Pro features geared towards sellers. Who else but Pros are gonna utilize things like that (or even care about them)? That was kinda my point. I understand thats your bread n butter, but still. You dont want to paint yourselves into a corner either where thats the only market thats attracted to your service, which I think you're doing.

Andy wrote: »

We'd like to try and get it right, and for that we always solicit customer feedback - have done so for years.

Granted. And you def should for a lot of things. I know people here appreciate that their voices are heard. But how valuable is this feedback? I mean, how many Smuggers actually come to these forums on a regular basis to even comment or participate?? I'd guess not many in the grand scheme of things.

And like I said, at this late in the social game, should you really be asking us how to do this? Sometimes you just have to do things because they need done, not because we say its OK.

P.S. I love you too.

emeraldrose

Like the thumbs up button for each image I'd like to have a like option, something they don't have to look for, but is right under every picture. how this works with individual users I'm unsure. And as far as not everyone wanting a fb option can it just be a choice in the control panel?

emeraldrose

oh yeah and I'd love to have it go to my fan page instead of my personal page or both.

Turbo V6 Camaro

just added it to mine seem to work

I put it in my header and footer and programmed to auto link to the page it's on works perfect !!!

if they are in a gallery and they click it, links to that gallery or you can over ride it and alsway have it go to one URL and you can over ride that with the Open Graph Tags if needed

http://www.wideshutphotography.com/