From what I understand, being independent allows them the freedom to listen to their customers instead of listening to shareholders. Question is, what good is that to the customer when they just can't seem to get the features out?
From what I understand, being independent allows them the freedom to listen to their customers instead of listening to shareholders. Question is, what good is that to the customer when they just can't seem to get the features out?
Malte
There's an update by baldy on the pro support forum:
Not much to add other than that they are being quiet about the new features because: patenteers like to patent stuff they are working on and competitors like to copy them
From what I understand, being independent allows them the freedom to listen to their customers instead of listening to shareholders. Question is, what good is that to the customer when they just can't seem to get the features out?
Malte
I was wondering the same thing. If they are under funded or over taxed with lawsuits then how bad could it be to have someone with deeper pockets take ownership? Progress seems pretty frozen right now with some customers leaving as a consequence.
Zenfolio hasn't changed much after the aquisition for example, at least from a customers' point of view. It really depends on the terms of the aquisition. I work for a large corporation that buys other smaller ones. Many times they try to retain the culture because that means continued business.
"Art.com did not disclose the financial terms of the deal, but says Art.com and Zenfolio.com will continue to operate as separate entities. The management team at Zenfolio will remain in place, and the company will continue to operate from its current location in Menlo Park, CA, for the foreseeable future, says an Art.com spokesperson." -- http://www.estiasis.com/story/zenfolio-sold-wallpaper-retailer-artcom-apparently-due-synergy-wallpaper-space
If SM pulled a rabbit out of its hat with a great new design I don't think anyone would care who funded it. It seems like there are big risks either way. Stay smaller and have to fund all the lawsuits which drains other resources such as development or go bigger and potentially lose sight of the SM style/approach to business. Obviously times have changed regardless. Baldy mentioned that customers like that SM remains independent. But as a customer I really don't care about that as long as SM continues providing a great service and eventually updates their site.
Not much to add other than that they are being quiet about the new features because: patenteers like to patent stuff they are working on and competitors like to copy them
While we didn't get the direct answers we are asking for regarding a project timeline or at least status of existing work (beyond we're working on it) I did find Baldy's comments helpful.
IMO this thread is old, dare I say stale. Maybe we need a new one with some 2013 SM information. Most of what is here is from 2011. Of course many folks have offered good design suggestions in this thread. But now I think most are simpy wondering 'what's up'?
While we didn't get the direct answers we are asking for regarding a project timeline or at least status of existing work (beyond we're working on it) I did find Baldy's comments helpful.
IMO this thread is old, dare I say stale. Maybe we need a new one with some 2013 SM information. Most of what is here is from 2011. Of course many folks have offered good design suggestions in this thread. But now I think most are simpy wondering 'what's up'?
Derek,
I plan on opening a new thread to post new comments on, so we can get off of this old one. Look for it next week.
Saw SM's email today and my heart jumped about a big announcement. Nope :-|
Same here! :-(
James Geiger M. Ed.
"Being a photographer is not about taking a photograph, it is about being curious about life."
~ Jared Platt http://www.jamesgeigerphoto.com
Glad to know I wasn't the only one who got their hopes up with that email! In the meantime I've been playing with other sites and absolutely dazzled by all the possibilities for presenting photography, especially on mobile, that you find these days almost everywhere .....except Smugmug :cry. Really hoping Smugmug has something to say before I have to make the renewal decision that's coming up fast.
Yes I listened to the Baldy interviews, very enlightening and helpful but I also noticed Smugmug didn't publicize that last TWIP interview on the official blog like with the first nterview. You should have. The legal problems help to explain why Smugmug has been held back so much, and was much more informative and believable than the first interview. The explanation of bandwidth costs was better too.
items that are improvements to look and feel of website: 2
Items that are partner or unrelated apps: 6
Pro only: 3
Nov 12th, 2012: New Holiday Cards
Aug 31st, 2012: Power Users: 1 cent downloads
Jul 24th, 2012: Updated pricing views
Jun 28th, 2012All users: Control Panel Extreme Makeover
Jun 13th, 2012All users: additional frames and mats available
May 7th, 2012: Guest Uploading: Let Your Friends Join the Fun.
Apr 28th, 2012: Pros & Power Users: Add A Custom Banner To Your Mobile Site
Mar 27th, 2012: Pros & Power Users: New European Print Lab
Mar 1st, 2012: iPhone camera app. All users: iPhone. Photography. Awesomized. Free.
Feb 22nd, 2012: WHCC Joins the SmugMug Family of Labs
Feb 6th, 2012: Power Users: Foreign Currencies Are Here
Feb 1 2012: New Lightroom Plugin
So, 2 announcements related to this thread, and those are an updated control panel, and ability to define a banner for mobile. Really leading the charge in innovation there guys. At least the partner/business development team has been delivering. I realize that the Pro folks are critical to your profits and probably survival. But lets make 2013 the year of 'everyone else', what do you say?
I realize that the Pro folks are critical to your profits and probably survival. But lets make 2013 the year of 'everyone else', what do you say?
Hey, we Pro/Portfolio users want a better interface too!
Thanks for your breakdown of the updates. It is kinda depressing though. If I had known there were so little interface work done in 2012 I never would have chosen Smugmug.
My Photo Site: EtchedinPixels.com
To all those still using the Firefox Web Inspector: Check out the one built in to Chrome! It's much more robust.
Glad to know I wasn't the only one who got their hopes up with that email! In the meantime I've been playing with other sites and absolutely dazzled by all the possibilities for presenting photography, especially on mobile, that you find these days almost everywhere .....except Smugmug :cry. Really hoping Smugmug has something to say before I have to make the renewal decision that's coming up fast.
Yes I listened to the Baldy interviews, very enlightening and helpful but I also noticed Smugmug didn't publicize that last TWIP interview on the official blog like with the first nterview. You should have. The legal problems help to explain why Smugmug has been held back so much, and was much more informative and believable than the first interview. The explanation of bandwidth costs was better too.
Completely agree with your post, I would be interested to hear which sites you are really dazzled by though?
I realize that the Pro folks are critical to your profits and probably survival. But lets make 2013 the year of 'everyone else', what do you say?
Thank you for your detailed breakdown. We do strive to provide across the board updates that are available to all account levels, but of course, when it comes to adding print labs and pricelists, those are limited to Portfolio and Business account levels. Many features in the works do span product wide and across all account levels, and I think you will be more than satisfied.
Pretty sure anyone could write the new thread. It would say we're working on a huge redesign, can't give any details but trust us you'll love it. Can't give a timeline but stay tuned and subscribe to our news blog so you don't miss it. It's taking longer than we'd like but trust us it's worth the wait. And since we have no idea what features we'll include make sure to vote for your favorites. Trust us.
The natives are restless to see and understand that improvements are coming, and that you are actually working on something. You do not wish to tip your hand to competition, nor overcommit.
One idea is to do what CulturedCode (maker of Things for Mac) does. They have a dashboard that shows what 'features' are being worked, and where they are in 'flight'. Its fairly basic, not very committal, and generic enough that it doesn't charge up the competition. But for customers, its very reassuring to know that something is being done. You might consider something like it:
Wow, still no news eh? Only check this every month or so, keep hoping to find something that will sway me from downgrading in the summer and shifting to somewhere else (probably Photoshelter).
Been here a LONG time. The lack of communication will ultimately push me over the edge, rather than the lack of new features. "We'll let you know the morning the software is released" just doesn't cut it I'm afraid. This is my livelyhood, and I cannot entrust to a company that I have lost confidence in, and won't tell me what timescales we're looking at.
Completely agree with your post, I would be interested to hear which sites you are really dazzled by though?
Caroline
Some examples. There are popular new gallery layout options that you now see all over the web, like tight square grid, justified grid (think Pinterest, Google+ Photos, Flickr), and horizontal slider. Smugmug is one of the few sites that doesn't support any of these, despite the rates we are now paying. But if you start a low-cost Wordpress site, you can have them all.
Oh, and those are largely customizable without needing the degree in CSS that Smugmug practically requires.
Appearance on mobile devices is extremely important now, and "responsive design" is a huge buzzword now because if your site is responsive, your phone/tablet visitors don't have to zoom and scroll your pages all the time. As far as I can tell, the current Smugmug templates have no responsive support and very limited support for touch gestures. (I'm not talking about Smugmug mobile apps, but about your end user viewing experience in mobile browsers.) But it's a huge area of activity on services like Wordpress now, like in the above link.
Also take a look at the rest of the templates on Squarespace.
As far as I know those are all responsive and easily customizable.
Those are my gripes with the current Smugmug templates. Lack of the obviously popular post-2010 design options, hard to customize without CSS, and lack of proper brandable mobile support. Catching up to all that is a big job without breaking our sites, and it's probably why Smugmug is so delayed in delivering whatever the heck the new design is.
Thank you for the reminder I am working on the finishing touches. Look for a new post in the coming days.
Sorry for the delay!
Michael
Better finish that up... In just 6 months people will start asking for a timeline for the rollout of the new thread. Or maybe if you wait a little longer people will just forget about the big update.
Some examples. There are popular new gallery layout options that you now see all over the web, like tight square grid, justified grid (think Pinterest, Google+ Photos, Flickr), and horizontal slider. Smugmug is one of the few sites that doesn't support any of these, despite the rates we are now paying. But if you start a low-cost Wordpress site, you can have them all.
Oh, and those are largely customizable without needing the degree in CSS that Smugmug practically requires.
Appearance on mobile devices is extremely important now, and "responsive design" is a huge buzzword now because if your site is responsive, your phone/tablet visitors don't have to zoom and scroll your pages all the time. As far as I can tell, the current Smugmug templates have no responsive support and very limited support for touch gestures. (I'm not talking about Smugmug mobile apps, but about your end user viewing experience in mobile browsers.) But it's a huge area of activity on services like Wordpress now, like in the above link.
Also take a look at the rest of the templates on Squarespace.
As far as I know those are all responsive and easily customizable.
Those are my gripes with the current Smugmug templates. Lack of the obviously popular post-2010 design options, hard to customize without CSS, and lack of proper brandable mobile support. Catching up to all that is a big job without breaking our sites, and it's probably why Smugmug is so delayed in delivering whatever the heck the new design is.
You're absolutely right, without a doubt. But there's a feature that makes Smugmug better than any other Wordpress based solutions. Smugmug generates separate photo from original .jpg with custom sharpening rules and shows it depending of screen resolution. It gives best results - additionaly, you can customize sharpening settings separately for every unique gallery or for all of them. This makes SMugmug to generate absolute best look of the photo. Other solutions (wordpress themes, viewbook, etc) use - correct me if it's not true - only simple resizing without proper sharpening. This is for me Smugmug key feature.
You're absolutely right, without a doubt. But there's a feature that makes Smugmug better than any other Wordpress based solutions. Smugmug generates separate photo from original .jpg with custom sharpening rules and shows it depending of screen resolution....This is for me Smugmug key feature.
You're right of course. There are many features like that which make Smugmug one of the best. I am at Smugmug because of the flexibility, the watermarking, the resize URLs, the sharpening, and many other features we will not find everywhere.
But this thread is not about the underlying features, it's about the customer-facing design and layout of the gallery pages. This is an area of concern for many because it has fallen out of step with current standards. We are concerned in this thread because while we would like to stay with Smugmug, the design problems are significant and much has been promised, and then rates doubled, with nothing to show for it. And Smugmug is the one that started this design thread, almost two years ago.
Better finish that up... In just 6 months people will start asking for a timeline for the rollout of the new thread. Or maybe if you wait a little longer people will just forget about the big update.
Dave
Dave, I have no intention of trying to let people forget. I am getting to know you guys, and I KNOW you will never forget
I am working on moving to a new thread to make everything fresh, as well as give a personal view. I have been tailoring it off and on, and as I said, you have no one to blame but me. But, just so you know, there will be no timeline or discussion of any specific features. Just giving you forewarning so you will not be disappointed.
Dave, I have no intention of trying to let people forget. I am getting to know you guys, and I KNOW you will never forget
I am working on moving to a new thread to make everything fresh, as well as give a personal view. I have been tailoring it off and on, and as I said, you have no one to blame but me. But, just so you know, there will be no timeline or discussion of any specific features. Just giving you forewarning so you will not be disappointed.
Michael
Ok, I'm a little surprised. And disappointed. Not about "no timeline"... I've been around here long enough to even think about expecting that. (not that I always understand it, especially in this case when there are so many whose memberships seem to hang in the balance) However, what I am surprised about is "no discussion of any specific features". Hmmm? What? I'm trying to then figure out what's left. I mean, we even had LOTS of discussion of specific features already, for a couple years, right here in this thread. SmugMug was supposedly wanting feedback and discussion, as various things were tried and people played with them. I don't see the point of another thread then, or what could be left that anyone cares to know. What people want to know is what ideas or critiques got given the time of day... whether their cares are going to be answered... whether it's going to be all different from what's already been described and shown, or the same, or a lot better. So yeah, I'm stumped. Can't imagine what else would be worth having a thread for.
The HTML thing is also huge for a lot of people. It's such a bummer to be completely avoiding working on our sites in ways we want to, need to, or should, only because we have no clue whether that work would all become useless in one week, 3 months, or 2 years. That part is downright ugly. That not-knowing affects every hour that I work on my site.
Ok, I'm a little surprised. And disappointed. Not about "no timeline"... I've been around here long enough to even think about expecting that. (not that I always understand it, especially in this case when there are so many whose memberships seem to hang in the balance) However, what I am surprised about is "no discussion of any specific features". Hmmm? What? I'm trying to then figure out what's left. I mean, we even had LOTS of discussion of specific features already, for a couple years, right here in this thread. SmugMug was supposedly wanting feedback and discussion, as various things were tried and people played with them. I don't see the point of another thread then, or what could be left that anyone cares to know. What people want to know is what ideas or critiques got given the time of day... whether their cares are going to be answered... whether it's going to be all different from what's already been described and shown, or the same, or a lot better. So yeah, I'm stumped. Can't imagine what else would be worth having a thread for.
The HTML thing is also huge for a lot of people. It's such a bummer to be completely avoiding working on our sites in ways we want to, need to, or should, only because we have no clue whether that work would all become useless in one week, 3 months, or 2 years. That part is downright ugly. That not-knowing affects every hour that I work on my site.
Anna,
We have talked plenty about specific features in the past on here and on the feedback forum. But I think Baldy's latest interview on TWiP can give you a better understanding of the world we are living in.
Comments
Malte
There's an update by baldy on the pro support forum:
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=230815&page=2
Not much to add other than that they are being quiet about the new features because: patenteers like to patent stuff they are working on and competitors like to copy them
I was wondering the same thing. If they are under funded or over taxed with lawsuits then how bad could it be to have someone with deeper pockets take ownership? Progress seems pretty frozen right now with some customers leaving as a consequence.
Zenfolio hasn't changed much after the aquisition for example, at least from a customers' point of view. It really depends on the terms of the aquisition. I work for a large corporation that buys other smaller ones. Many times they try to retain the culture because that means continued business.
"Art.com did not disclose the financial terms of the deal, but says Art.com and Zenfolio.com will continue to operate as separate entities. The management team at Zenfolio will remain in place, and the company will continue to operate from its current location in Menlo Park, CA, for the foreseeable future, says an Art.com spokesperson." -- http://www.estiasis.com/story/zenfolio-sold-wallpaper-retailer-artcom-apparently-due-synergy-wallpaper-space
If SM pulled a rabbit out of its hat with a great new design I don't think anyone would care who funded it. It seems like there are big risks either way. Stay smaller and have to fund all the lawsuits which drains other resources such as development or go bigger and potentially lose sight of the SM style/approach to business. Obviously times have changed regardless. Baldy mentioned that customers like that SM remains independent. But as a customer I really don't care about that as long as SM continues providing a great service and eventually updates their site.
My Smugmug Gallery
While we didn't get the direct answers we are asking for regarding a project timeline or at least status of existing work (beyond we're working on it) I did find Baldy's comments helpful.
IMO this thread is old, dare I say stale. Maybe we need a new one with some 2013 SM information. Most of what is here is from 2011. Of course many folks have offered good design suggestions in this thread. But now I think most are simpy wondering 'what's up'?
My Smugmug Gallery
Derek,
I plan on opening a new thread to post new comments on, so we can get off of this old one. Look for it next week.
Michael
Facebook
Google+
Twitter
Photo Blog
Looking forward to the new thread (with some ACTUAL INFORMATION from SmugMug regarding a timetable for the long-promised feature release.)
Thank you for the reminder
Sorry for the delay!
Michael
Facebook
Google+
Twitter
Photo Blog
Subscribed!
Canon • Glass • Speedlites • Strobes • RRS •
In all seriousness though, looking forward to some updated news. I'm up for renewal in early July, and I really really want to upgrade to power...
Remember Smugmug, all these awesome new features you speak of won't mean anything if you have no customers.
Vote for: SmugMug Two factor authentication
Same here! :-(
"Being a photographer is not about taking a photograph, it is about being curious about life."
~ Jared Platt
http://www.jamesgeigerphoto.com
Yes I listened to the Baldy interviews, very enlightening and helpful but I also noticed Smugmug didn't publicize that last TWIP interview on the official blog like with the first nterview. You should have. The legal problems help to explain why Smugmug has been held back so much, and was much more informative and believable than the first interview. The explanation of bandwidth costs was better too.
items that are improvements to look and feel of website: 2
Items that are partner or unrelated apps: 6
Pro only: 3
Nov 12th, 2012: New Holiday Cards
Aug 31st, 2012: Power Users: 1 cent downloads
Jul 24th, 2012: Updated pricing views
Jun 28th, 2012All users: Control Panel Extreme Makeover
Jun 13th, 2012All users: additional frames and mats available
May 7th, 2012: Guest Uploading: Let Your Friends Join the Fun.
Apr 28th, 2012: Pros & Power Users: Add A Custom Banner To Your Mobile Site
Mar 27th, 2012: Pros & Power Users: New European Print Lab
Mar 1st, 2012: iPhone camera app. All users: iPhone. Photography. Awesomized. Free.
Feb 22nd, 2012: WHCC Joins the SmugMug Family of Labs
Feb 6th, 2012: Power Users: Foreign Currencies Are Here
Feb 1 2012: New Lightroom Plugin
So, 2 announcements related to this thread, and those are an updated control panel, and ability to define a banner for mobile. Really leading the charge in innovation there guys. At least the partner/business development team has been delivering. I realize that the Pro folks are critical to your profits and probably survival. But lets make 2013 the year of 'everyone else', what do you say?
Hey, we Pro/Portfolio users want a better interface too!
Thanks for your breakdown of the updates. It is kinda depressing though. If I had known there were so little interface work done in 2012 I never would have chosen Smugmug.
To all those still using the Firefox Web Inspector: Check out the one built in to Chrome! It's much more robust.
Completely agree with your post, I would be interested to hear which sites you are really dazzled by though?
Caroline
www.carolineshipsey.co.uk - Follow me on G+
[/URL]
Thank you for your detailed breakdown. We do strive to provide across the board updates that are available to all account levels, but of course, when it comes to adding print labs and pricelists, those are limited to Portfolio and Business account levels. Many features in the works do span product wide and across all account levels, and I think you will be more than satisfied.
Thanks for your understanding.
Michael
Facebook
Google+
Twitter
Photo Blog
Got a bunch of e-mail updates to this other thread this morning: http://feedback.smugmug.com/forums/17723-smugmug/suggestions/332102-more-gallery-levels ... Not liking what I'm seeing and it looks like long-time customers are leaving...
At least they're consistent.
Pretty sure anyone could write the new thread. It would say we're working on a huge redesign, can't give any details but trust us you'll love it. Can't give a timeline but stay tuned and subscribe to our news blog so you don't miss it. It's taking longer than we'd like but trust us it's worth the wait. And since we have no idea what features we'll include make sure to vote for your favorites. Trust us.
Dave
The natives are restless to see and understand that improvements are coming, and that you are actually working on something. You do not wish to tip your hand to competition, nor overcommit.
One idea is to do what CulturedCode (maker of Things for Mac) does. They have a dashboard that shows what 'features' are being worked, and where they are in 'flight'. Its fairly basic, not very committal, and generic enough that it doesn't charge up the competition. But for customers, its very reassuring to know that something is being done. You might consider something like it:
http://culturedcode.com/status/
I take full responsibility for this delay. My sincere apologies. And yes, I am also managing the Feedback forum
Michael Bonocore
www.mb-photography-sf.com
www.facebook.com/mbonocore
plus.mb-photography-sf.com
Facebook
Google+
Twitter
Photo Blog
Been here a LONG time. The lack of communication will ultimately push me over the edge, rather than the lack of new features. "We'll let you know the morning the software is released" just doesn't cut it I'm afraid. This is my livelyhood, and I cannot entrust to a company that I have lost confidence in, and won't tell me what timescales we're looking at.
To all those still using the Firefox Web Inspector: Check out the one built in to Chrome! It's much more robust.
Some examples. There are popular new gallery layout options that you now see all over the web, like tight square grid, justified grid (think Pinterest, Google+ Photos, Flickr), and horizontal slider. Smugmug is one of the few sites that doesn't support any of these, despite the rates we are now paying. But if you start a low-cost Wordpress site, you can have them all.
Oh, and those are largely customizable without needing the degree in CSS that Smugmug practically requires.
Appearance on mobile devices is extremely important now, and "responsive design" is a huge buzzword now because if your site is responsive, your phone/tablet visitors don't have to zoom and scroll your pages all the time. As far as I can tell, the current Smugmug templates have no responsive support and very limited support for touch gestures. (I'm not talking about Smugmug mobile apps, but about your end user viewing experience in mobile browsers.) But it's a huge area of activity on services like Wordpress now, like in the above link.
Also take a look at the rest of the templates on Squarespace.
As far as I know those are all responsive and easily customizable.
Those are my gripes with the current Smugmug templates. Lack of the obviously popular post-2010 design options, hard to customize without CSS, and lack of proper brandable mobile support. Catching up to all that is a big job without breaking our sites, and it's probably why Smugmug is so delayed in delivering whatever the heck the new design is.
Better finish that up... In just 6 months people will start asking for a timeline for the rollout of the new thread.
Dave
You're absolutely right, without a doubt. But there's a feature that makes Smugmug better than any other Wordpress based solutions. Smugmug generates separate photo from original .jpg with custom sharpening rules and shows it depending of screen resolution. It gives best results - additionaly, you can customize sharpening settings separately for every unique gallery or for all of them. This makes SMugmug to generate absolute best look of the photo. Other solutions (wordpress themes, viewbook, etc) use - correct me if it's not true - only simple resizing without proper sharpening. This is for me Smugmug key feature.
Private confessions
You're right of course. There are many features like that which make Smugmug one of the best. I am at Smugmug because of the flexibility, the watermarking, the resize URLs, the sharpening, and many other features we will not find everywhere.
But this thread is not about the underlying features, it's about the customer-facing design and layout of the gallery pages. This is an area of concern for many because it has fallen out of step with current standards. We are concerned in this thread because while we would like to stay with Smugmug, the design problems are significant and much has been promised, and then rates doubled, with nothing to show for it. And Smugmug is the one that started this design thread, almost two years ago.
Dave, I have no intention of trying to let people forget. I am getting to know you guys, and I KNOW you will never forget
I am working on moving to a new thread to make everything fresh, as well as give a personal view. I have been tailoring it off and on, and as I said, you have no one to blame but me. But, just so you know, there will be no timeline or discussion of any specific features. Just giving you forewarning so you will not be disappointed.
Michael
Facebook
Google+
Twitter
Photo Blog
The HTML thing is also huge for a lot of people. It's such a bummer to be completely avoiding working on our sites in ways we want to, need to, or should, only because we have no clue whether that work would all become useless in one week, 3 months, or 2 years. That part is downright ugly. That not-knowing affects every hour that I work on my site.
DayBreak, my Folk Music Group (some free mp3s!) http://daybreakfolk.com
Anna,
We have talked plenty about specific features in the past on here and on the feedback forum. But I think Baldy's latest interview on TWiP can give you a better understanding of the world we are living in.
http://www.thisweekinphoto.com/2012/twip-286-an-evening-with-smugmug/
Michael
Facebook
Google+
Twitter
Photo Blog