What you are describing works fine for vBulletin based forums (like Dgrin). But I wouldn't assume that all other forums have the same button-to-insert-BB-code.
You're correct, while I cannot assume that all forum software does, I do know that almost all of them do. We've spent a lot of time investigating Forum software to move dGrin (and Baldy's motorcycle forum, ADVrider) to and every option we looked at (Vanilla, Xenforo, NodeBB, the new vB, etc) all offer even more advanced WYSIWYG editors that perform this conversion for you. Xenforo is the most popular, partially because it was written by the vB guys (and it's what we'll be moving dGrin to in the very near future), and it also does the image-to-BBCode option.
In the past you probably just grabbed the "BBCode" link directly from the share panel. Since a majority of our users don't use forums nor know what BBCode is, we kept the new Share Panel simpler and diverted the extra button click over to the forum software. Same amount of effort for you, same result, but easier for the rest of our customers.
The topic of BB code is a tough one for me as the Product Manager who worked on the new Share Panel. Not only because I'm in charge of overseeing dgrin, but because I'm also an active user here and on other forums. While BB Code is still used on most (if not all) forum software, I have to balance power/advanced features with what makes sense for the majority of SmugMug'ers. Most users don't use forums and don't know what BB Code is. We could easily add another "BB Code" checkbox next to or under the "HTML" one, but aside from the small number of users who are on forums here and elsewhere, most people don't understand what BB Code is. A great example is the long time dgrinner (with thousands of posts) who asked "What does the HTML checkbox do?" If an advanced user doesn't know what these checkboxes do, will a normal one?
Ultimately it came down to the fact that there are very easy workarounds for not having a direct BBcode option. Instead of confusing our customers with extra options, the decision was made to keep the Share Panel simpler. For forum users, the extra button click has been moved to the forums. Instead of clicking a "BBCode" button on the Share Panel, all you have to do is click the "Insert Image" button here on the forums:
I know it's a different workflow, and we all hate to change up our routines, the amount of effort required to embed a photo into forums hasn't changed. Am I missing something? I admit I'm human and I'm always open to being told I'm wrong!
Pls. read my posts on the previous page. It's not just the BBcode with the little tree icon (many forums have that) but the BBcode which puts the picture into an URL link such that when you click on the photo it takes you back to the SmugMug page where the photo is posted. This is very similar to to the HTML code you're providing, only a few parts of the string are different. There is (as far as I know) no easy workaround to get this. This is the BBcode I would like to see added in the new share panel. The simple one with just behind is simple, if that was the only problem I'd just type them in in case the forum software doesn't provide the script for it.
I also disagree that adding one checkbox will add complexity. If people don't know what HTML code or BB code is just tell them not to check those boxes. Nothing complex about that.
The new sharing menu is fine, it's just that it compromises other settings. If I have my gallery right-click protected (I know, not hard to get by) and I want to allow sharing, it won't stop anyone from getting a direct link to the image and save it that way. One way to stop people from taking full advantage is to limit the image size, but that makes browsing less of an experience...
The new sharing menu is fine, it's just that it compromises other settings. If I have my gallery right-click protected (I know, not hard to get by) and I want to allow sharing, it won't stop anyone from getting a direct link to the image and save it that way. One way to stop people from taking full advantage is to limit the image size, but that makes browsing less of an experience...
The old "Get-a-Link" page worked the same way: visitors could get a direct link to the JPG and by-pass any right-click protection. Of course, RCP provides a false sense of security since visitors can just screenshot the photo. We debated making the "Photo" tab only visible to owners but didn't want to change this too much from how the old page worked.
Would you all prefer if the "Photo" tab was owner only?
Okay, I thought it previously worked so that you linked to the picture using a smaller version as a clickable link for sharing, not disclosing the URL for the hi-res JPEGs.
I think I would prefer not revealing direct links to original sizes as this is a definite money saver to dishonest people. My site doesn't see enough traffic for this to be abused though, but I believe sharing a link (with a large thumbnail) to the lightbox is enough...
I think I would prefer not revealing direct links to original sizes as this is a definite money saver to dishonest people.
The Size drop-down will always show you and your visitors sizes up to the "max display size" setting of the gallery. If you limit it to XLarges, for example, you and your visitors will not see X2Large, X3Large or Originals.
Well the new share panel is utterly useless as far as I'm concerned - almost he only use I have made of the old panel is to embed "clickable" links into forum posts i.e., the BB Code option which has now gone. I've just spent hours trying to remember how to do this manually and it takes about ten times longer to do it than simply copy the code as was available on the old panel.
The rest of the new share panel is pointless to me as I'm not interested in Farcebook, Twatter, Google+ or any other anti-social media - digital dinosaur maybe but I doubt I'm alone in being completely pi**ed-off...
almost he only use I have made of the old panel is to embed "clickable" links into forum posts i.e., the BB Code option which has now gone
You actually have greater control over embedding images into forums now. Instead of just "small, medium, and large" options, you can choose from any one of the available SmugMug sizes. Copy the link to the photo from the "Photos" tab, then go to your forums and click on their "Insert Image" button:
Alternatively, you only need to wrap "" around the URL, like:
I do wonder if your not underestimating the number of people who participate in a variety of forums.
As a note I don't understand code / programming etc. and I don't want to!!!!!
I don't need to know what BBCode is only what it does and when I should use it.
Since it will take visitors back to my website when they click on one my images posed online I think that would be a feature you wouldn't want to remove.
You indicated it would be simple to put a BBCode button in the new dialog box.
Acadiana Al
Smugmug: Bayou Oaks Studio
Blog: Journey to the Light
"Serendipity...the faculty of making happy, unexpected discoveries by accident." .... Horace Walpole, 1754 (perhaps that 'lucky shot' wasn't really luck at all!)
Why do you keep ignoring the fact that you took away the more complex BBcode where the image is embedded in a URL such that when you click on the picture it takes you to the picture on the SmugMug site.
How to link to a gallery?
On the new share I can see how to link to a picture, but how do you like to an entire gallery? There used to be an option for it under the share window, or we could always copy it from the address bar.
Now I no longer see the address in the address bar to copy it. Just my domain name.
ignore me, this is fixed. I had an issue with my custom domain settings at godaddy. Ana with the smugmug heros helped me out lickity split. What I jacked with for several hours before asking for help, she solved in minutes.
Tip: Do not have "Forwarding WITH MASKING" selected. Now I know.
@ leftquark: Why do you keep ignoring the fact that you took away the more complex BBcode where the image is embedded in a URL such that when you click on the picture it takes you to the picture on the SmugMug site.
You keep pointing to the tree icon, but you are missing the point of some of the complaints here.
As both a dgrin member and a SmugMug customer for many many years before I started working at SmugMug I use all of the features that we're talking about. There's a difference between taking away key features, with no work-around, and removing potentially confusing features that can still be accomplished in other simple ways by the power users who want to use them.
On this topic, the BB code that was generated in the old Get-a-Link page can still be accomplished today. As an example, I used a combination of the new Share Panel and dgrin to generate this BBCode:
Was it more complicated than it was yesterday? Absolutely, and I get that. Previously I only had to copy one thing. Now I had to copy two. Was it painful to create this? Absolutely not. It took me less than 20 seconds to embed a link and a photo in this forum. It's still possible and it's still really easy to embed a link and an image.
Think about the mom who tries to send a link to grandma and accidentally clicks a "BB Code" button, not realizing what it does, and finds that grandma cannot find the photo because it's wrapped around other things. Think about the embarrassment to a Pro who attempts to send their client a link to a photo, only to find that they accidentally sent BBcode instead. We want to minimize these confusing interactions and make it easier for people to use SmugMug. Think about the SmugMugger who tries to share a photo but becomes so overwhelmed with options ("what is HTML? What is BB code? What are the various sizes?! What are all these options!") that they decide SmugMug is too confusing.
These are the things that go into our decision making process. The anecdotes that we hear and the feedback that we get says that Smugmug is too confusing and hard to use. Then there's also the data, the data that shows that SmugMuggers weren't using the BB code links (I'm not saying that it wasn't used at all, clearly you were using it, but the numbers were very small).
If we see that usage of BB code on the internet grows, we're certainly more than happy to add in quicker BB code generation. But we're seeing the opposite trend. Blogs and Forums, most notably WordPress, are using technology (that we've adopted) to automatically generate embeddable code just from the URL. All you have to do is paste the URL (in the example above: "http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Nature/Landscapes/i-sRChgLz/A") and they take care of converting it into whatever embeddable code is required. As this trend continues there will be no need for HTML or BB code.
Well Aaron, let's agree to disagree. You're taking away useful functionality and I don't see how I can create what you took away in 20 seconds. It takes more time to switch windows and links to do that.
Also on the previous page you advertise the changes in the share panel that the new workflow is easier, now you advertise it's more cumbersome but OK. Can't have both.
Also your "confusion" argument is very strange, you don't provide a BBcode checkbox because it might send the wrong pictures to someone, but the HTML checkbox doesn't do that? How about creating a separate tab "for forums and blogs" with a HTML and BBcode box so there is no more confusing checkbox on the first Photo tab. You're going to great length to dumb down the interface for less literate users and you leave the users who use and understand the more advanced options with empty hands.
Also I don't see BBcode is dying, I think that's wishful thinking on your part to defend your action to take functionality away. Several of the fora I use to share photo's still use it (Luminous Landscape, GetDPI, Dyxum, .....) and have no plans to update their forum software anytime soon. I know because I'm administrator of one and one other one just went through a major revamp.
As a customer I feel left out in the cold without a real alternative or efficient workaround. You're misusing your power because you know that someone with 6000 pictures and many links on different websites can't just drop SmugMug at the drop of a hat. Therefore if I were you I would be much more sensitive to taking away functionality, you have a responsibility to keep serving customers who are locked into your system.
I concur, I don't think BBcode will die anytime soon, but vBulletin, Xenforo, NodeBB, Vanilla Forums (and most of the rest) already have Media Embedding built in, that automatically creates the BBcode just from the URL to the image or video. Here's an example of how we do this with SmugMug links on the ADVrider forum, which is using Xenforo forums (and what dGrin will move to shortly). Type in the SmugMug URL and the forum automatically embeds it. I find that pretty snazzy!
without a real alternative or efficient workaround
As an Engineer I'd much prefer to come up with solutions rather than frustrate each other going in circles. If you were to quantify what an efficient alternative or workaround was, how would you define that? Something that takes less than 30 seconds?
I concur, I don't think BBcode will die anytime soon, but vBulletin, Xenforo, NodeBB, Vanilla Forums (and most of the rest) already have Media Embedding built in, that automatically creates the BBcode just from the URL to the image or video.
For me that's irrelevant, there are many photography centered websites that still rely only on BBcode. That's what we're talking about here. Real life vs. a Pie in the Sky for those websites.
As an Engineer I'd much prefer to come up with solutions rather than frustrate each other going in circles. If you were to quantify what an efficient alternative or workaround was, how would you define that? Something that is less than 4 clicks, 2 copy/pastes and takes less than 30 seconds?
In the old system it was a 3 clicks (share, the relevant tab, copy) and then 1 crtl V pasted it where needed.
In your method it's 2 clicks (share, size) followed by crtl C, then crtl V followed by manually typing so this involves hitting multiple keys and 'end' or 'home'.
Then as a next step you go to the picture (2 clicks), another crtl C of the URL and crtl V in the second entry box and then you're done. As an engineer you must agree this is a lot more work and prone to mistakes and typos. I'm an engineer too (but not in IT). In my book more than triple the amount of button presses/clicks with manual intervention is not an efficient alternative. I can live with twice the keystrokes, once doing a crtl C instead of a button click and no manual intervention/typing stuff. It's still less efficient but bearable.
However the ultimate solution is simple (I think) and even achieves less confusion (which is what you seem to be looking for) and it's in my previous post but to repeat it here: create a "Forums + Blogs" tab on the share panel which is the same as the Photo tab with two checkboxes "HTML" and "BBcode" and then reduce confusion by removing the "HTML" checkbox from the first Photo tab. So you kill two birds with one stone: less confusion on the main (first) photo tab, more advanced options for users who use/value that on a deeper tab. No mom or Pro sending a simple photo will be confused then, since they know the new tab "Forums and Blogs" has nothing for them to offer.
The new share box in smugmug (simpler?) now means I have five clicks to get to what I've always used: to copy the HTTP code for a medium size image, and, I can no longer grab a sequence of images in series without going back to the smugmug view window.
I hate it.
I presume I can't actually fix anything with customization, but are there any chances I can?
As both a dgrin member and a SmugMug customer for many many years before I started working at SmugMug I use all of the features that we're talking about. There's a difference between taking away key features, with no work-around, and removing potentially confusing features that can still be accomplished in other simple ways by the power users who want to use them.
On this topic, the BB code that was generated in the old Get-a-Link page can still be accomplished today. As an example, I used a combination of the new Share Panel and dgrin to generate this BBCode:
Was it more complicated than it was yesterday? Absolutely, and I get that. Previously I only had to copy one thing. Now I had to copy two. Was it painful to create this? Absolutely not. It took me less than 20 seconds to embed a link and a photo in this forum. It's still possible and it's still really easy to embed a link and an image.
Think about the mom who tries to send a link to grandma and accidentally clicks a "BB Code" button, not realizing what it does, and finds that grandma cannot find the photo because it's wrapped around other things. Think about the embarrassment to a Pro who attempts to send their client a link to a photo, only to find that they accidentally sent BBcode instead. We want to minimize these confusing interactions and make it easier for people to use SmugMug. Think about the SmugMugger who tries to share a photo but becomes so overwhelmed with options ("what is HTML? What is BB code? What are the various sizes?! What are all these options!") that they decide SmugMug is too confusing.
These are the things that go into our decision making process. The anecdotes that we hear and the feedback that we get says that Smugmug is too confusing and hard to use. Then there's also the data, the data that shows that SmugMuggers weren't using the BB code links (I'm not saying that it wasn't used at all, clearly you were using it, but the numbers were very small).
If we see that usage of BB code on the internet grows, we're certainly more than happy to add in quicker BB code generation. But we're seeing the opposite trend. Blogs and Forums, most notably WordPress, are using technology (that we've adopted) to automatically generate embeddable code just from the URL. All you have to do is paste the URL (in the example above: "http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Nature/Landscapes/i-sRChgLz/A") and they take care of converting it into whatever embeddable code is required. As this trend continues there will be no need for HTML or BB code.
First let me say after visiting your website that you have some great images!!!
I have appreciated your help and explanations.
BUT! After reading this post you may color me pissed off and insulted. I also believe you insulted "mom". :boid
Yes I am slow, and at time have great difficulty wrapping my head around some of this web / internet stuff.
Please don't make me learn this stuff!!! :bash
This post is so full of elitist, self serving, insulting excuse making I wouldn't know where to begin.
Very much akin to one of our current crop of politicians saying that although they are raising your taxes, reducing your benefits and eliminating a few of your rights, it's all being done to benefit you. Then wondering why the masses don't understand this. :cry
Less is not more.
You are the tech expert. SmugMug has a client base that encompasses beginners and very experienced website / photo sharing site folks.
SmugMug has plans for beginners and for pros with different features. Two buttons with an explanation. How hard is that?
You have stated it is easy for you / SmugMug to put this BBCode button thing in the new share menu.
Why not put it in the Pro plan???
If your position is one of " hey this is the way it is and we ain't gona change it. You don't like it, go somewhere else. While I wouldn't like that, it's simple to understand.
If you want to listen and it's as you said simple to fix, then please do it.
In my book more than triple the amount of button presses/clicks with manual intervention is not an efficient alternative. I can live with twice the keystrokes, once doing a crtl C instead of a button click and no manual intervention/typing stuff. It's still less efficient but bearable.
Thanks! While the "Forums" tab is one solution, there are obviously many ways to go about improving the Share Panel. I wanted to make sure we defined the criteria like this, rather than by defining how it should work.
In the meantime, using the "Insert Link" and "Insert Image" buttons will save on having to manually type in anything, as well as hitting home/end. And on the positive end, you're no longer limited to just "small", "medium", and "Large" sizes.
In the meantime, using the "Insert Link" and "Insert Image" buttons will save on having to manually type in anything, as well as hitting home/end. And on the positive end, you're no longer limited to just "small", "medium", and "Large" sizes.
Aaron, with your current manual procadure how do you avoid typing (and using end and/or home) when embedding the image tag inside the URL that takes the viewer back to the SmugMug page when clicking on it? I haven't figured that out yet, but maybe I'm missing something.
Aaron, with your current manual procadure how do you avoid typing (and using end and/or home) when embedding the image tag inside the URL that takes the viewer back to the SmugMug page when clicking on it? I haven't figured that out yet, but maybe I'm missing something.
Using the "Insert Image" button above, it'll automatically add the IMG tags for you. It asks for an image URL, which comes from the Share Panel.
1. Click "Share" on SmugMug
2. Select the size and Copy the URL
3. Go back to the forum, click "Insert Image" and paste in the copied URL. This automatically generates the [ IMG]link[/ IMG]
4. Highlight the whole [ IMG] text
5. Go back to SmugMug, close the share panel, and copy the address bar.
6. Return to the forum, click the "Insert Link" button and paste the URL in.
Because you highlighted the entire IMG tag in step 4, the link now wraps around the IMG, so you get [ URL=link_to_photo][ IMG]link [/ IMG][/ URL]
I think you guys will be happy with what we end up coming up with. There's a few more pressing things that I'd like to fix first, like being able to use the arrow keys to navigate to previous/next photo without having to close the share panel, but stay tuned.
Using the "Insert Image" button above, it'll automatically add the IMG tags for you. It asks for an image URL, which comes from the Share Panel.
1. Click "Share" on SmugMug
2. Select the size and Copy the URL
3. Go back to the forum, click "Insert Image" and paste in the copied URL. This automatically generates the [ IMG]link[/ IMG]
4. Highlight the whole [ IMG] text
5. Go back to SmugMug, close the share panel, and copy the address bar.
6. Return to the forum, click the "Insert Link" button and paste the URL in.
Because you highlighted the entire IMG tag in step 4, the link now wraps around the IMG, so you get [ URL=link_to_photo][ IMG]link [/ IMG][/ URL]
I think you guys will be happy with what we end up coming up with. There's a few more pressing things that I'd like to fix first, like being able to use the arrow keys to navigate to previous/next photo without having to close the share panel, but stay tuned.
Thanks Aaron - it still doesn't work - tried all the above, followed the quick video guide - doesn't work. Only way seems to be to write the BB Code myself and it's a real pain in the proverbial.
Whether "most" forums are going away from BB Code or not, if the ones that you post to use BB Code that's what counts...
As others have said, it would be great to have the BB Code button back!
The ability to use any size from the new share panel is also pie in the sky as many forums limit the size of shot that can be pasted - WHICH IS WHY WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO LINK DIRECTLY TO LIGHTBOX!
I'm staying tuned in the hopes that some sort of sense will prevail.
Comments
You're correct, while I cannot assume that all forum software does, I do know that almost all of them do.
Former SmugMug Product Team
aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
Former SmugMug Product Team
aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
You're talking to him.
And we're workin' on it!
Former SmugMug Product Team
aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
Pls. read my posts on the previous page. It's not just the BBcode with the little tree icon (many forums have that) but the BBcode which puts the picture into an URL link such that when you click on the photo it takes you back to the SmugMug page where the photo is posted. This is very similar to to the HTML code you're providing, only a few parts of the string are different. There is (as far as I know) no easy workaround to get this. This is the BBcode I would like to see added in the new share panel. The simple one with just
I also disagree that adding one checkbox will add complexity. If people don't know what HTML code or BB code is just tell them not to check those boxes. Nothing complex about that.
My SmugMug
My Website index | My Blog
Yeah, and Jimmy Hoffa and Elvis are playing golf next Thursday. The earth is 6000 years old and T Rex never existed.:D
Sam
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=10612
My Website index | My Blog
Next your gona show me a "real" photograph of Beelzebub ice skating in his backyard.
Sam
The old "Get-a-Link" page worked the same way: visitors could get a direct link to the JPG and by-pass any right-click protection. Of course, RCP provides a false sense of security since visitors can just screenshot the photo. We debated making the "Photo" tab only visible to owners but didn't want to change this too much from how the old page worked.
Would you all prefer if the "Photo" tab was owner only?
Former SmugMug Product Team
aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
I think I would prefer not revealing direct links to original sizes as this is a definite money saver to dishonest people. My site doesn't see enough traffic for this to be abused though, but I believe sharing a link (with a large thumbnail) to the lightbox is enough...
The Size drop-down will always show you and your visitors sizes up to the "max display size" setting of the gallery. If you limit it to XLarges, for example, you and your visitors will not see X2Large, X3Large or Originals.
Former SmugMug Product Team
aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
The rest of the new share panel is pointless to me as I'm not interested in Farcebook, Twatter, Google+ or any other anti-social media - digital dinosaur maybe but I doubt I'm alone in being completely pi**ed-off...
Cheers, Geoff
You actually have greater control over embedding images into forums now. Instead of just "small, medium, and large" options, you can choose from any one of the available SmugMug sizes. Copy the link to the photo from the "Photos" tab, then go to your forums and click on their "Insert Image" button:
Alternatively, you only need to wrap "
(Remove the space before IMG ... dgrin didn't like me trying to paste the real code)
Former SmugMug Product Team
aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
As a note I don't understand code / programming etc. and I don't want to!!!!!
I don't need to know what BBCode is only what it does and when I should use it.
Since it will take visitors back to my website when they click on one my images posed online I think that would be a feature you wouldn't want to remove.
You indicated it would be simple to put a BBCode button in the new dialog box.
I vote for the button!
Sam
Smugmug: Bayou Oaks Studio
Blog: Journey to the Light
"Serendipity...the faculty of making happy, unexpected discoveries by accident." .... Horace Walpole, 1754 (perhaps that 'lucky shot' wasn't really luck at all!)
Why do you keep ignoring the fact that you took away the more complex BBcode where the image is embedded in a URL such that when you click on the picture it takes you to the picture on the SmugMug site.
I mean the BBcode like this : [ URL=https://pegelli.smugmug.com/Events/Dyxum-Meet-16Oct2010-Naarden/i-pnHvLpX/A][ IMG]https://pegelli.smugmug.com/Events/Dyxum-Meet-16Oct2010-Naarden/i-pnHvLpX/0/O/PEG_A700_12246_20101017-L.jpg[ /IMG][ /URL] (also included some spaces to show the BBcode rather then posting the picture).
This was possible with the old sharing process and is now taken away (without a good workaround) in the new share process.
You keep pointing to the tree icon, but you are missing the point of some of the complaints here.
My SmugMug
On the new share I can see how to link to a picture, but how do you like to an entire gallery? There used to be an option for it under the share window, or we could always copy it from the address bar.
Now I no longer see the address in the address bar to copy it. Just my domain name.
What am I doing wrong?
Thanks,
Duke
Images in the Backcountry
My SmugMug Customizations | Adding CSS to Your Site | SEO for the Photographer | Locate Your Page/Widget Number | SmugMug Help Desk
Tip: Do not have "Forwarding WITH MASKING" selected. Now I know.
As both a dgrin member and a SmugMug customer for many many years before I started working at SmugMug I use all of the features that we're talking about. There's a difference between taking away key features, with no work-around, and removing potentially confusing features that can still be accomplished in other simple ways by the power users who want to use them.
On this topic, the BB code that was generated in the old Get-a-Link page can still be accomplished today. As an example, I used a combination of the new Share Panel and dgrin to generate this BBCode:
Was it more complicated than it was yesterday? Absolutely, and I get that. Previously I only had to copy one thing. Now I had to copy two. Was it painful to create this? Absolutely not. It took me less than 20 seconds to embed a link and a photo in this forum. It's still possible and it's still really easy to embed a link and an image.
Think about the mom who tries to send a link to grandma and accidentally clicks a "BB Code" button, not realizing what it does, and finds that grandma cannot find the photo because it's wrapped around other things. Think about the embarrassment to a Pro who attempts to send their client a link to a photo, only to find that they accidentally sent BBcode instead. We want to minimize these confusing interactions and make it easier for people to use SmugMug. Think about the SmugMugger who tries to share a photo but becomes so overwhelmed with options ("what is HTML? What is BB code? What are the various sizes?! What are all these options!") that they decide SmugMug is too confusing.
These are the things that go into our decision making process. The anecdotes that we hear and the feedback that we get says that Smugmug is too confusing and hard to use. Then there's also the data, the data that shows that SmugMuggers weren't using the BB code links (I'm not saying that it wasn't used at all, clearly you were using it, but the numbers were very small).
If we see that usage of BB code on the internet grows, we're certainly more than happy to add in quicker BB code generation. But we're seeing the opposite trend. Blogs and Forums, most notably WordPress, are using technology (that we've adopted) to automatically generate embeddable code just from the URL. All you have to do is paste the URL (in the example above: "http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Nature/Landscapes/i-sRChgLz/A") and they take care of converting it into whatever embeddable code is required. As this trend continues there will be no need for HTML or BB code.
For more information on this embedding you can see the official WordPress documentation as well as this great blog post.
Former SmugMug Product Team
aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
Also on the previous page you advertise the changes in the share panel that the new workflow is easier, now you advertise it's more cumbersome but OK. Can't have both.
Also your "confusion" argument is very strange, you don't provide a BBcode checkbox because it might send the wrong pictures to someone, but the HTML checkbox doesn't do that? How about creating a separate tab "for forums and blogs" with a HTML and BBcode box so there is no more confusing checkbox on the first Photo tab. You're going to great length to dumb down the interface for less literate users and you leave the users who use and understand the more advanced options with empty hands.
Also I don't see BBcode is dying, I think that's wishful thinking on your part to defend your action to take functionality away. Several of the fora I use to share photo's still use it (Luminous Landscape, GetDPI, Dyxum, .....) and have no plans to update their forum software anytime soon. I know because I'm administrator of one and one other one just went through a major revamp.
As a customer I feel left out in the cold without a real alternative or efficient workaround. You're misusing your power because you know that someone with 6000 pictures and many links on different websites can't just drop SmugMug at the drop of a hat. Therefore if I were you I would be much more sensitive to taking away functionality, you have a responsibility to keep serving customers who are locked into your system.
My SmugMug
As an Engineer I'd much prefer to come up with solutions rather than frustrate each other going in circles. If you were to quantify what an efficient alternative or workaround was, how would you define that? Something that takes less than 30 seconds?
Former SmugMug Product Team
aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
In the old system it was a 3 clicks (share, the relevant tab, copy) and then 1 crtl V pasted it where needed.
In your method it's 2 clicks (share, size) followed by crtl C, then crtl V followed by manually typing
Then as a next step you go to the picture (2 clicks), another crtl C of the URL and crtl V in the second entry box and then you're done. As an engineer you must agree this is a lot more work and prone to mistakes and typos. I'm an engineer too
However the ultimate solution is simple (I think) and even achieves less confusion (which is what you seem to be looking for) and it's in my previous post but to repeat it here: create a "Forums + Blogs" tab on the share panel which is the same as the Photo tab with two checkboxes "HTML" and "BBcode" and then reduce confusion by removing the "HTML" checkbox from the first Photo tab. So you kill two birds with one stone: less confusion on the main (first) photo tab, more advanced options for users who use/value that on a deeper tab. No mom or Pro sending a simple photo will be confused then, since they know the new tab "Forums and Blogs" has nothing for them to offer.
My SmugMug
I hate it.
I presume I can't actually fix anything with customization, but are there any chances I can?
Arron,
First let me say after visiting your website that you have some great images!!!
I have appreciated your help and explanations.
BUT! After reading this post you may color me pissed off and insulted. I also believe you insulted "mom". :boid
Yes I am slow, and at time have great difficulty wrapping my head around some of this web / internet stuff.
Please don't make me learn this stuff!!! :bash
This post is so full of elitist, self serving, insulting excuse making I wouldn't know where to begin.
Very much akin to one of our current crop of politicians saying that although they are raising your taxes, reducing your benefits and eliminating a few of your rights, it's all being done to benefit you. Then wondering why the masses don't understand this. :cry
Less is not more.
You are the tech expert. SmugMug has a client base that encompasses beginners and very experienced website / photo sharing site folks.
SmugMug has plans for beginners and for pros with different features. Two buttons with an explanation. How hard is that?
You have stated it is easy for you / SmugMug to put this BBCode button thing in the new share menu.
Why not put it in the Pro plan???
If your position is one of " hey this is the way it is and we ain't gona change it. You don't like it, go somewhere else. While I wouldn't like that, it's simple to understand.
If you want to listen and it's as you said simple to fix, then please do it.
But please don't evoke Orwellian speak.
Thank you,
Sam
Thanks! While the "Forums" tab is one solution, there are obviously many ways to go about improving the Share Panel. I wanted to make sure we defined the criteria like this, rather than by defining how it should work.
In the meantime, using the "Insert Link" and "Insert Image" buttons will save on having to manually type in anything, as well as hitting home/end. And on the positive end, you're no longer limited to just "small", "medium", and "Large" sizes.
Former SmugMug Product Team
aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
My SmugMug
Using the "Insert Image" button above, it'll automatically add the IMG tags for you. It asks for an image URL, which comes from the Share Panel.
1. Click "Share" on SmugMug
2. Select the size and Copy the URL
3. Go back to the forum, click "Insert Image" and paste in the copied URL. This automatically generates the [ IMG]link[/ IMG]
4. Highlight the whole [ IMG] text
5. Go back to SmugMug, close the share panel, and copy the address bar.
6. Return to the forum, click the "Insert Link" button and paste the URL in.
Because you highlighted the entire IMG tag in step 4, the link now wraps around the IMG, so you get [ URL=link_to_photo][ IMG]link [/ IMG][/ URL]
I made a quick video guide: http://aaronmeyers.smugmug.com/Screenshots/i-4NvCKxS/A
I think you guys will be happy with what we end up coming up with. There's a few more pressing things that I'd like to fix first, like being able to use the arrow keys to navigate to previous/next photo without having to close the share panel, but stay tuned.
Former SmugMug Product Team
aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
Whether "most" forums are going away from BB Code or not, if the ones that you post to use BB Code that's what counts...
As others have said, it would be great to have the BB Code button back!
The ability to use any size from the new share panel is also pie in the sky as many forums limit the size of shot that can be pasted - WHICH IS WHY WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO LINK DIRECTLY TO LIGHTBOX!
I'm staying tuned in the hopes that some sort of sense will prevail.
Cheers, Geoff