Thanks, Ian, for the picture and all. I don't remember seeing much on long Canon telephotos that weren't 5,000.00, so I bet that is big bucks.
And certainly can be debated by Andy and Harry.
Can't see myself getting into that. The 400 f5.6L, now it kicks ass.
And it is the photographer anyway.
Now, I can get into that???????
A SHOOT OUT! Same equipment, same lens! Only fair. I do have a small Canon elph from the old days, we could all shoot with them...........see who gets the best BIF.
ginger (getting myself in all sorts of trouble this AM. Gotta go call the doc's office before they fill up.)
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I guess I just don't get the idea behind the whipping post. I post an image in the whipping post. I wait three days to collect whatever feedback there is. I act on that feedback and create a new version. I post that new version to see if I hit what people were telling me. That new version gets removed because "it's not allowed" according to the rules. Here's the thread.
I just don't get it. What's the point? Why wouldn't you want people who solicit feedback to be able to respond to the feedback in the same thread people were already reading. It appears that to "follow the rules", I have to create a new thread in a different topic area and try to get people to follow the discussion over to a new place.
IMO, the whipping post is being "over moderated" to the detriment of your own purpose. It's difficult to know and follow all the rules, there appears to be no way to act on the feedback and see how well you did and the whole thing is so complicated that there's hardly any traffic in the whipping post.
I understand that you want it to be for people's best images and you don't want "which one do you like best?" threads and that you want to encourage serious critique, but all of those can be maintained and still allow someone to get feedback on a second iteration that incorporates the feedback. Just to show I'm not the only one confused by this, the most recent posting in the whipping post as of this moment in this thread, just did the same thing I did and posted a second generation based on feedback.
I guess I just don't get the idea behind the whipping post. I post an image in the whipping post. I wait three days to collect whatever feedback there is. I act on that feedback and create a new version. I post that new version to see if I hit what people were telling me. That new version gets removed because "it's not allowed" according to the rules. Here's the thread.
I just don't get it. What's the point? Why wouldn't you want people who solicit feedback to be able to respond to the feedback in the same thread people were already reading. It appears that to "follow the rules", I have to create a new thread in a different topic area and try to get people to follow the discussion over to a new place.
IMO, the whipping post is being "over moderated" to the detriment of your own purpose. It's difficult to know and follow all the rules, there appears to be no way to act on the feedback and see how well you did and the whole thing is so complicated that there's hardly any traffic in the whipping post.
I understand that you want it to be for people's best images and you don't want "which one do you like best?" threads and that you want to encourage serious critique, but all of those can be maintained and still allow someone to get feedback on a second iteration that incorporates the feedback. Just to show I'm not the only one confused by this, the most recent posting in the whipping post as of this moment in this thread, just did the same thing I did and posted a second generation based on feedback.
Seems to be working pretty well so far. I disagree with what you said: it's not a NEW thread you're posting but rather a before and after post to an existing thread - one in which folks can see the results of the whip! It seems like lots of folks are gaining benefit from the whipping, based on the before/after thread. I like the fact that I can be whipped, and then go study / use the comments and critique, and come back to the WP forum and the Before After thread, and show everyone that I cared enough about their comments. It's a nice full, complete circle. It would be great, if everyone that posts in the before / after, also linked to their whipping thread.
We always appreciate your comments, John. BTW, the WP needs to be moderated heavily - the rules are the rules - and if we don't stay on top of them, then people will put up too many images, and the critiquers have too much work to do.
I hope that you'll copy your post here and repost in the before after!
IMO, the whipping post is being "over moderated" to the detriment of your own purpose. It's difficult to know and follow all the rules, there appears to be no way to act on the feedback and see how well you did and the whole thing is so complicated that there's hardly any traffic in the whipping post.
One other comment. Reading is hard! But read, we must. We're growing, John, and there's got to be some order to things. David_TO puts in a TON of hours on Dgrin trying to keep things straight - it's a hard volunteer job with no pay. We want feedback for sure! But for now, we have the rules to follow. If you'd like to solicit other opinions, as to how the WP might be changed, that's cool - we'd love to hear them.
Seems to be working pretty well so far. I disagree with what you said: it's not a NEW thread you're posting but rather a before and after post to an existing thread - one in which folks can see the results of the whip! It seems like lots of folks are gaining benefit from the whipping, based on the before/after thread. I like the fact that I can be whipped, and then go study / use the comments and critique, and come back to the WP forum and the Before After thread, and show everyone that I cared enough about their comments. It's a nice full, complete circle. It would be great, if everyone that posts in the before / after, also linked to their whipping thread.
We always appreciate your comments, John. BTW, the WP needs to be moderated heavily - the rules are the rules - and if we don't stay on top of them, then people will put up too many images, and the critiquers have too much work to do.
I hope that you'll copy your post here and repost in the before after!
So far, I'm just hearing that the "rules are the rules". I'm not hearing why my specific request is bad for the WP topic area. David seems to fear that the WP will turn into a Photoshop topic area. I'm not asking for PS help. I'm asking for artistic feedback only. In fact, the whole reason that I was attracted to the WP in the first place is that my Photoshop skills are far beyond my artistic judgement so I was hoping to find a place that was not about Photoshop, but was about artistic judgment. I personally find that I learn fastest when I can get feedback, incorporate that feedback, then see how others think I did incorporating that feedback.
In that spirit, I'm suggesting a rule change that will make the whipping post a more valuable place. Can you explain why a poster who solicits feedback on an image they consider one of their better ones, waits several days for feedback to accumulate and then wants to see if they properly incorporated the feedback can't post a 2nd version of the same image in the same thread to see if it meets the objections so far? If you want to encourage people to fully incorporate feedback before posting again and avoid multiple iterations, then you could change the rules to allow one final derivative posting to be posted in the thread after some reasonable period of time had passed and only by the author of the thread.
A comment/question. There are been only seven new images posted in WP in the last week, an average of one new image a day - that's hardly a load that people interested in following it can't handle. Wouldn't you be more interested in making WP a more valuable place for the people who take the time to contribute there rather than restricting traffic to it?
To your specific comment above, posting a derivative work to the before/after thread is NOT the same thread as I originally posted in. Most of us don't read every message on dgrin. We cherry pick a few that are interesting and then monitor the one's we've participated in using the subscription list. The before/after posting is not going to show up on the subscriptions list for the same set of people that gave me feedback in my original thread. It's not a good place to ask, how'd I do to your feedback. It's a different set of people on that thread, many of which had nothing to say about my image.
So far, I'm just hearing that the "rules are the rules". I'm not hearing why my specific request is bad for the WP topic area. David seems to fear that the WP will turn into a Photoshop topic area. I'm not asking for PS help. I'm asking for artistic feedback only. In fact, the whole reason that I was attracted to the WP in the first place is that my Photoshop skills are far beyond my artistic judgement so I was hoping to find a place that was not about Photoshop, but was about artistic judgment. I personally find that I learn fastest when I can get feedback, incorporate that feedback, then see how others think I did incorporating that feedback.
In that spirit, I'm suggesting a rule change that will make the whipping post a more valuable place. Can you explain why a poster who solicits feedback on an image they consider one of their better ones, waits several days for feedback to accumulate and then wants to see if they properly incorporated the feedback can't post a 2nd version of the same image in the same thread to see if it meets the objections so far? If you want to encourage people to fully incorporate feedback before posting again and avoid multiple iterations, then you could change the rules to allow one final derivative posting to be posted in the thread after some reasonable period of time had passed and only by the author of the thread.
A comment/question. There are been only seven new images posted in WP in the last week, an average of one new image a day - that's hardly a load that people interested in following it can't handle. Wouldn't you be more interested in making WP a more valuable place for the people who take the time to contribute there rather than restricting traffic to it?
To your specific comment above, posting a derivative work to the before/after thread is NOT the same thread as I originally posted in. Most of us don't read every message on dgrin. We cherry pick a few that are interesting and then monitor the one's we've participated in using the subscription list. The before/after posting is not going to show up on the subscriptions list for the same set of people that gave me feedback in my original thread. It's not a good place to ask, how'd I do to your feedback. It's a different set of people on that thread, many of which had nothing to say about my image.
John, you could always repost it after a week...in a new thread...
So far, I'm just hearing that the "rules are the rules". I'm not hearing why my specific request is bad for the WP topic area. David seems to fear that the WP will turn into a Photoshop topic area. I'm not asking for PS help. I'm asking for artistic feedback only. In fact, the whole reason that I was attracted to the WP in the first place is that my Photoshop skills are far beyond my artistic judgement so I was hoping to find a place that was not about Photoshop, but was about artistic judgment. I personally find that I learn fastest when I can get feedback, incorporate that feedback, then see how others think I did incorporating that feedback.
In that spirit, I'm suggesting a rule change that will make the whipping post a more valuable place. Can you explain why a poster who solicits feedback on an image they consider one of their better ones, waits several days for feedback to accumulate and then wants to see if they properly incorporated the feedback can't post a 2nd version of the same image in the same thread to see if it meets the objections so far? If you want to encourage people to fully incorporate feedback before posting again and avoid multiple iterations, then you could change the rules to allow one final derivative posting to be posted in the thread after some reasonable period of time had passed and only by the author of the thread.
A comment/question. There are been only seven new images posted in WP in the last week, an average of one new image a day - that's hardly a load that people interested in following it can't handle. Wouldn't you be more interested in making WP a more valuable place for the people who take the time to contribute there rather than restricting traffic to it?
To your specific comment above, posting a derivative work to the before/after thread is NOT the same thread as I originally posted in. Most of us don't read every message on dgrin. We cherry pick a few that are interesting and then monitor the one's we've participated in using the subscription list. The before/after posting is not going to show up on the subscriptions list for the same set of people that gave me feedback in my original thread. It's not a good place to ask, how'd I do to your feedback. It's a different set of people on that thread, many of which had nothing to say about my image.
Hi again, John.
It's very hard to please everyone. Not everyone does the "subscription" thing. Folks who care about the whipping post will go there and see if there's been a before/after - and after all, it's *sticky* - not hard to find
If all you're hearing is "rules are rules" then please re-read my posts because I specifically said, we love feedback from the members - and if enough people want to make a change, then for sure we'll consider making the change.
need to delete my entry
I don't know how. I need to delete my challenge entry, and I don't know how. It used to be easy.
Also, if I wanted to change an entry, well, that used to be allowed, but I don't know how to change the subject line. I was careful this time to put on a noncommittal subject line so I could change it, but I really do want to delete what I entered.
I don't know how. I need to delete my challenge entry, and I don't know how. It used to be easy.
Also, if I wanted to change an entry, well, that used to be allowed, but I don't know how to change the subject line. I was careful this time to put on a noncommittal subject line so I could change it, but I really do want to delete what I entered.
ginger
Ginger, it's done. And this thread is where such requests go...
think those could be relative to the Smugmug comment spams seemed to happen around the same time and from what i know its only hitting people here on Dgrin.
Kiddie shot
Wondering where the line is drawn where child porn is concerned. You see, I have some shots of my (then) 1-year-old son playing in a toilet, wearing just his birthday suit but with a funny face drawn on his "seat of knowledge".
How can I submit that for your approval BEFORE posting it on a forum?
If you see threads or posts that should or could be moved, or could be consolidated within another post to better organize, and server our forum, place them here in this thread by responding to this post.
Comments
One fast piece of glass. A beauty but heavy sucker.
Have you thought about a nice, fast telephoto? This might be it.
Ian
And certainly can be debated by Andy and Harry.
Can't see myself getting into that. The 400 f5.6L, now it kicks ass.
And it is the photographer anyway.
Now, I can get into that???????
A SHOOT OUT! Same equipment, same lens! Only fair. I do have a small Canon elph from the old days, we could all shoot with them...........see who gets the best BIF.
ginger (getting myself in all sorts of trouble this AM. Gotta go call the doc's office before they fill up.)
Ginger, you *go* girl!
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http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=26376
I guess I just don't get the idea behind the whipping post. I post an image in the whipping post. I wait three days to collect whatever feedback there is. I act on that feedback and create a new version. I post that new version to see if I hit what people were telling me. That new version gets removed because "it's not allowed" according to the rules. Here's the thread.
I just don't get it. What's the point? Why wouldn't you want people who solicit feedback to be able to respond to the feedback in the same thread people were already reading. It appears that to "follow the rules", I have to create a new thread in a different topic area and try to get people to follow the discussion over to a new place.
IMO, the whipping post is being "over moderated" to the detriment of your own purpose. It's difficult to know and follow all the rules, there appears to be no way to act on the feedback and see how well you did and the whole thing is so complicated that there's hardly any traffic in the whipping post.
I understand that you want it to be for people's best images and you don't want "which one do you like best?" threads and that you want to encourage serious critique, but all of those can be maintained and still allow someone to get feedback on a second iteration that incorporates the feedback. Just to show I'm not the only one confused by this, the most recent posting in the whipping post as of this moment in this thread, just did the same thing I did and posted a second generation based on feedback.
Confused...
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Dear Confused,
1. Make post in WP
2. Get Whipped
3. Go make changes, reshoot, what have you
4. Post your before/afters here
Seems to be working pretty well so far. I disagree with what you said: it's not a NEW thread you're posting but rather a before and after post to an existing thread - one in which folks can see the results of the whip! It seems like lots of folks are gaining benefit from the whipping, based on the before/after thread. I like the fact that I can be whipped, and then go study / use the comments and critique, and come back to the WP forum and the Before After thread, and show everyone that I cared enough about their comments. It's a nice full, complete circle. It would be great, if everyone that posts in the before / after, also linked to their whipping thread.
We always appreciate your comments, John. BTW, the WP needs to be moderated heavily - the rules are the rules - and if we don't stay on top of them, then people will put up too many images, and the critiquers have too much work to do.
I hope that you'll copy your post here and repost in the before after!
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One other comment. Reading is hard! But read, we must. We're growing, John, and there's got to be some order to things. David_TO puts in a TON of hours on Dgrin trying to keep things straight - it's a hard volunteer job with no pay. We want feedback for sure! But for now, we have the rules to follow. If you'd like to solicit other opinions, as to how the WP might be changed, that's cool - we'd love to hear them.
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So far, I'm just hearing that the "rules are the rules". I'm not hearing why my specific request is bad for the WP topic area. David seems to fear that the WP will turn into a Photoshop topic area. I'm not asking for PS help. I'm asking for artistic feedback only. In fact, the whole reason that I was attracted to the WP in the first place is that my Photoshop skills are far beyond my artistic judgement so I was hoping to find a place that was not about Photoshop, but was about artistic judgment. I personally find that I learn fastest when I can get feedback, incorporate that feedback, then see how others think I did incorporating that feedback.
In that spirit, I'm suggesting a rule change that will make the whipping post a more valuable place. Can you explain why a poster who solicits feedback on an image they consider one of their better ones, waits several days for feedback to accumulate and then wants to see if they properly incorporated the feedback can't post a 2nd version of the same image in the same thread to see if it meets the objections so far? If you want to encourage people to fully incorporate feedback before posting again and avoid multiple iterations, then you could change the rules to allow one final derivative posting to be posted in the thread after some reasonable period of time had passed and only by the author of the thread.
A comment/question. There are been only seven new images posted in WP in the last week, an average of one new image a day - that's hardly a load that people interested in following it can't handle. Wouldn't you be more interested in making WP a more valuable place for the people who take the time to contribute there rather than restricting traffic to it?
To your specific comment above, posting a derivative work to the before/after thread is NOT the same thread as I originally posted in. Most of us don't read every message on dgrin. We cherry pick a few that are interesting and then monitor the one's we've participated in using the subscription list. The before/after posting is not going to show up on the subscriptions list for the same set of people that gave me feedback in my original thread. It's not a good place to ask, how'd I do to your feedback. It's a different set of people on that thread, many of which had nothing to say about my image.
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John, you could always repost it after a week...in a new thread...
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Hi again, John.
It's very hard to please everyone. Not everyone does the "subscription" thing. Folks who care about the whipping post will go there and see if there's been a before/after - and after all, it's *sticky* - not hard to find
If all you're hearing is "rules are rules" then please re-read my posts because I specifically said, we love feedback from the members - and if enough people want to make a change, then for sure we'll consider making the change.
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And also let's have further discussions in that thread.
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OK, Done!
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Good work Andy, love the new shots
Steve
I figured I better break in, or you'd just keep posting replies to yourself
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I don't know how. I need to delete my challenge entry, and I don't know how. It used to be easy.
Also, if I wanted to change an entry, well, that used to be allowed, but I don't know how to change the subject line. I was careful this time to put on a noncommittal subject line so I could change it, but I really do want to delete what I entered.
ginger
Ginger, it's done. And this thread is where such requests go...
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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
:spam
done.
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http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=27711 to the techniques forum
http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=28444
my words, my "pro"pictures, my "fun" pictures, my videos.
done
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think those could be relative to the Smugmug comment spams
smugmug: www.StandOutphoto.smugmug.com
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=28655
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
I just saw it & blew it up.... tks
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
Wondering where the line is drawn where child porn is concerned. You see, I have some shots of my (then) 1-year-old son playing in a toilet, wearing just his birthday suit but with a funny face drawn on his "seat of knowledge".
How can I submit that for your approval BEFORE posting it on a forum?