Cool. How much is your total project costing, including the car? I will be around $5k into the car after the swap is done.
By the way, I'm going with a 3.46LSD and it will only cost me about $500 for a rebuilt unit :P
Since you are adding power, are you upgrading you brakes? I'm upgrading to 850i brakes all around.
Well, the car was bought back in 1985. I am spending considerably more. I'll put it this way, the engine alone is IIRC 8k without cams. Custom cams, custom lightweight high compression pistons, port and polish everything, jet-hot coated tri-y's, custom exhaust, custom high flow fuel distributor, custom fuel pump relay, high flow injectors, custom built transmission...it sorta all adds up. Plus H&R sport springs and Bilstein HD shocks, those pentas wearing 245/50-16 Pilot A/S tires, and then a paint job from the best shop in town (plus new front and rear windsheilds and new seals all over). Please don't make me write down how much I am blowing I should add 350hp+ is the conservative let's not get our hopes up number. More likely is 375+ for both hp and torque.
Not doing much for brakes, just Stoptech slotted rotors and Axxis Ultimate pads. Honestly even the stock rotors and pads can kick in the ABS with 245 race rubber, so the mild upgrading I'm doing is just to cut back on fade (and even the stock rotors and pads don't have too much fade, metal master pads on stock rotors have very little fade, and stoptech tells me ultimates have even less fade, couple that with the addition of slots to all 4 corners...I think I'll be fine for braking. When your wheels only weigh 17.5lbs, braking is easier).
With a 3.46 won't highway cruising be annoying? With my 2.47 I'm doing 3000rpm at 84mph, I wouldn't want to run any higher.
Shouldn't be much different than my 3.09 I currently have. Maybe 1-2mpg less on the highway.
PLEASE DON'T PAINT YOUR WHEELS BLUE!
Wheels are a done deal (heck you know that, you've seen the picture). In case you forgot
I've seen, I love it (dancing with myself, oh oh...), and plus that's how AMG would have done them back in the day. Oh, and that's not paint btw, that's powdercoat.
Engine will be going into a truck next Thursday. Builder takes his sweet time, but he does it right. I wish he could do it fast and right but I guess that's a one or the other type of thing. Right now getting a quite on what it will cost to have it shipped in 1 day instead of 3.
3.09 is stock? Was BMW changing diff ratios for the US market or something? That doesn't sound like a very Autobahn friendly rear end.
Wheels are a done deal (heck you know that, you've seen the picture). In case you forgot
Builder takes his sweet time, but he does it right. I wish he could do it fast and right but I guess that's a one or the other type of thing. Right now getting a quite on what it will cost to have it shipped in 1 day instead of 3.
I've heard that before, but honestly it's more like pick one in this case. I could throw 5 more grand at the guy, he wouldn't blink, he'd just say it takes time to do things right. He works 6 days/week as it is...and he doesn't advertise his services. I'd gladly pick fast and good but not cheap, just not an option.
I'm making a nonsense 80's (or at least 80's type) CD for when I pick it up. Not at all my kind of music. So far it involves 3 Kraftwerk songs, that techno song that couple in the Porsche are playing when they get pulled over in Super Troopers, some Tone Loc, 99 Luftballoons, Eins Zwei Polizei, and Dancing with Myself (trust me, I would never make a CD with those songs if it weren't just for a laugh).
EDIT: Oh, and how could I forget. Of course, Axel F will be on there.
Nice. Only a matter of time now. You know, if you had a Mercedes you wouldn't have to take the hood off, you could just make it go straight vertical.
If you say you knew nothing a year ago, how do you already have an engine lift and such? That's the kind of thing I don't plan on getting until I'm much much older (i.e. have a house and nice garage etc).
If you say you knew nothing a year ago, how do you already have an engine lift and such? That's the kind of thing I don't plan on getting until I'm much much older (i.e. have a house and nice garage etc).
Well when your parents let your turn their property into a junk yard wouldn't you want a lift and stand too?
Looks like someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed.
Nah Woke up on the right side of the bed problem was more waking up after a long night of drinkin gives me a sarcastic sense of humor making it harder for people to tell when I'm joking.
But I can easily see antrieb learning as much as he has in a year. We all know how focused he has been on these cars. It's good he's actually learning as much as he can about them rather than just thinking he can throw stickers on them to make them faster.
Nice. Only a matter of time now. You know, if you had a Mercedes you wouldn't have to take the hood off, you could just make it go straight vertical.
If you say you knew nothing a year ago, how do you already have an engine lift and such? That's the kind of thing I don't plan on getting until I'm much much older (i.e. have a house and nice garage etc).
Actually none of these tools are mine. My BMW friend in town has graciously let me use his garage space and tools for a month.
I want to ask again about this shot. I remember you telling me you find roads like this everywhere you look (cresting road allowing a vantage point where you see nothing but sky above the road) and you use this when you can't find an interesting background to use otherwise. But when you shoot a shot like that what legal and traffic law issues do you face?
Don't be so square, man! there can't possibly be a law against your car being stopped on a back country road.
Technically there minimum speed limit laws. Whether they are enforced or not is another story. But in Williamson County, Texas, the Law is known to be rather strict about stuff. I've been pulled over for some really silly trivial things out here.
Saw a lot of rebuilds in this thread.
In India the car performance scene is nascent.
80s and 90s when Petrol(Gasoline) prices were rising, engine swaps were done on old cars where Fuel efficient Diesel engines(rebuilt) were imported from Japan(Toyota, Daihatsu) and fitted in the fuel guzzlers. Diesel costs much cheaper, and absense of any enforcement on emissions/safety etc., led to a boom.
Economy opened up, and the trend is dying, atleast in big cities.
Now the focus is on performance mods.
But its still nascent.
K&N filter, Free flow, porting polishing, headers etc., are the basic mods which are considered extreme.
So a K&N Universal filter + Porting polishing+ Iridium plugs costs around Rs. 15000 (350$+). Add a good free flow with CAT and its 200$ more. Add an empty pipe, it just costs 40$. Not CATcon through
Some go for things like Tri-phase, Petes tuning boxes(Turbo diesel engines). Pete's tuning box can push power from 110bhp or so to 130+ at the flick of a switch in Hyundai cars.
Turbo charging is really rare, and few people get their Honda City's(B16 engine VTEC) turbo charged with power going from 110bhp to 150 or so,
Even fewer go for engine swaps.
The most common is in a very very small car called zen(Now discontinued). It weighs around 700kgs, comes with a 55bhp engine. People put in a 1.3L engine from the same company(Maruti Suzuki) and have a pocket rocket.
Another engine swap is to get a bigger honda engine from Japan(rebuilt) and plonk in their cars (Honda city again).
This costs a total of 170000Rs which is 4000$+ approx.
The engine is usually a 200bhp engine.
Currently in stock form in the mid size segment(C segment) which is just below luxury in India(In India Accord is a upper Luxury car, just one level below Mercedes/BMW), a very high performance car is a Common Rail diesel engines Hyundai Verna(Accent) which puts out 110bhp and 146Nm torque. So you can gather what high performance means here . Anything which weighs around a ton, and put out about 110bhp or so is a high performance vehicle.
Go to D segment, you have the Skoda Octavia RS, which is a turbo petrol pumping out 140bhp+. You also have the Hyundai Sonata Embera diesel(142bhp) and the Accord V6 there.
Coming back to this thread, I think engine swaps are more popular in the US.
Is it due to cheaper engines.
Can somebody give me an idea of the costs of the following in the US just to have things in perspective.
1. 250BHP engine, New/Rebuilt
2. ECU piggyback chip. ECU remap
3. Performance headers, Porting polishing, Iridium spark plugs
4. High performance filters
5. Free flow exausts.
Other basic mods and their costs?
What are the "street legal" issues you face.
In India in smaller towns there is no issue but in larger cities like New Delhi where police are more educated they can catch you for
1. Noise due to free flow's if its too loud
2. Underbody lighting
3. Strobes
4. Engine SWAP, since engine number will not match registeration, but many modders just swap the engine number plates too.
Coming to Visual mods, the HID craze is new here, with people fitting in HIDs in standard housings and blinding everybody else. Strobes have caught on, and in rare cases underbody lighting, but due to bad roads, the underbody lighting may not last if you go out of town often, or visit the bylanes.
Things like port and polishing and exhausts and all that (i.e. things that involve some person doing physical work) are much more expensive here than you quoted as being the prices in India.
Engine costs vary by a ton. Typically people don't do engine swaps only to have 250hp. Let's say you have a basic old General Motors muscle car. A person can get a 440hp LS2 block engine from GM Performance Parts for $5,200. On the other hand, the stock engine for a 996 Porsche 911 is around $18,000.
ECU chips typically are around $400-500
something like a K&N I think is like $60, don't really know because quite frankly they are garbage, and in 99% of the cases people use them won't do anything at all, let alone the few extra hp they can make if you use them properly.
Underbody/strobes lighting will get you in trouble with the law, as will too loud unless you have Hot Rod license plates (these let you get away with a lot of things, but they limit how much you are allowed to drive per year and for what purpose you are allowed to drive).
Labour is cheap here. Hence the low costs. But in India 250 bhp is a big deal because most of the cars except for the super super luxury S class or Lambo's which are sold 1 car per month types, nobody has 250 bhp.
Infact 100bhp car is considered a performance car here.
Labour is cheap here. Hence the low costs. But in India 250 bhp is a big deal because most of the cars except for the super super luxury S class or Lambo's which are sold 1 car per month types, nobody has 250 bhp.
Infact 100bhp car is considered a performance car here.
If you want to have fun looking up American performance parts for American cars, go to jegs.com
I would say most new cars have 200 or more horsepower. Also, while Lambos are still pretty rare here, I'd say Mercedes S-Classes are not, I'll see a few of them every day.
Ok, so lets say somebody has a 250BHP car and buys a new engine and gearbox to get a 400bhp car. He will sell his old 250bhp engine and gbox? How much will that net him?
I'm upgrading to a 280hp engine in my BMW and the old engine has 215hp. I'm selling the engine for $200 including the wiring harness.
IIRC that engine is pretty garbage, so that's not really fair.
All this stuff largely depends on the model. BMW/Mercedes stuff there isn't much of a market for, but lets say you had one of the weaker small block chevy engines, something like an Edelbrock 45300 (350 chevy small block with 310hp sells for $4,400 new) and were upgrading to say a 435hp chevy 350 from edelbrock ($6,700 new). You'd probably get like $2500-3000 for the 310hp engine in good shape.
We are sorta the wrong people to ask here since we are mostly european car people here (well, Dragon likes japanese cars and Doc I guess likes bikes). With the German cars you either spend a TON of money to get something from one of the tuning houses, a TON of money to get some custom stuff made, or go through junkyards with not so much money and find an engine that was originally offered as an option in the same car you currently have. There just isn't much demand for German stuff in this country. The engine coming out of my car (1985 Mercedes 380SE engine, made like 207hp in europe and 155hp in the US) is totally worthless even though it runs perfectly. By that I mean nobody will even pay for the cost of shipping it to have it.
That would be correct, in particular Nissan/Datsun. I'm also fairly versed in the Chevy 4.3 V6.
Is that Chevy the same as the Vortec 4300? If so, garbage. Our first one crapped out after 36,000 miles, though the dealer agreed to comp $2000 and we paid $1000 to have it replaced. The second one has like 45,000 miles on it, and while there is nothing wrong with it, the engine in my 1985 Mercedes with 162,600 miles on it runs smoother...and my motor mounts are collapsed.
Is that Chevy the same as the Vortec 4300? If so, garbage. Our first one crapped out after 36,000 miles, though the dealer agreed to comp $2000 and we paid $1000 to have it replaced. The second one has like 45,000 miles on it, and while there is nothing wrong with it, the engine in my 1985 Mercedes with 162,600 miles on it runs smoother...and my motor mounts are collapsed.
Yup thats the vortech 4300 and thats kinda not normal from what I have seen. My first 4300 lasted till 153k and the oil pump went, but to be fair I knew it was going and didn't replace it like I should have so that cost me the engine. The second one is close to 153k on it now and still going strong. Everything else on the car is falling apart though. But it does have the original trans with close to 200k on it. But then again that is about to fail too so.
Comments
Well, the car was bought back in 1985. I am spending considerably more. I'll put it this way, the engine alone is IIRC 8k without cams. Custom cams, custom lightweight high compression pistons, port and polish everything, jet-hot coated tri-y's, custom exhaust, custom high flow fuel distributor, custom fuel pump relay, high flow injectors, custom built transmission...it sorta all adds up. Plus H&R sport springs and Bilstein HD shocks, those pentas wearing 245/50-16 Pilot A/S tires, and then a paint job from the best shop in town (plus new front and rear windsheilds and new seals all over). Please don't make me write down how much I am blowing
Not doing much for brakes, just Stoptech slotted rotors and Axxis Ultimate pads. Honestly even the stock rotors and pads can kick in the ABS with 245 race rubber, so the mild upgrading I'm doing is just to cut back on fade (and even the stock rotors and pads don't have too much fade, metal master pads on stock rotors have very little fade, and stoptech tells me ultimates have even less fade, couple that with the addition of slots to all 4 corners...I think I'll be fine for braking. When your wheels only weigh 17.5lbs, braking is easier).
With a 3.46 won't highway cruising be annoying? With my 2.47 I'm doing 3000rpm at 84mph, I wouldn't want to run any higher.
PLEASE DON'T PAINT YOUR WHEELS BLUE!
http://zwilliams.smugmug.com/
Wheels are a done deal (heck you know that, you've seen the picture). In case you forgot
I've seen, I love it (dancing with myself, oh oh...), and plus that's how AMG would have done them back in the day. Oh, and that's not paint btw, that's powdercoat.
Engine will be going into a truck next Thursday. Builder takes his sweet time, but he does it right. I wish he could do it fast and right but I guess that's a one or the other type of thing. Right now getting a quite on what it will cost to have it shipped in 1 day instead of 3.
3.09 is stock? Was BMW changing diff ratios for the US market or something? That doesn't sound like a very Autobahn friendly rear end.
Fast
Cheap
Good
Pick Two.
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
I've heard that before, but honestly it's more like pick one in this case. I could throw 5 more grand at the guy, he wouldn't blink, he'd just say it takes time to do things right. He works 6 days/week as it is...and he doesn't advertise his services. I'd gladly pick fast and good but not cheap, just not an option.
I'm making a nonsense 80's (or at least 80's type) CD for when I pick it up. Not at all my kind of music. So far it involves 3 Kraftwerk songs, that techno song that couple in the Porsche are playing when they get pulled over in Super Troopers, some Tone Loc, 99 Luftballoons, Eins Zwei Polizei, and Dancing with Myself (trust me, I would never make a CD with those songs if it weren't just for a laugh).
EDIT: Oh, and how could I forget. Of course, Axel F will be on there.
A 540i comes with a 2.93.
http://zwilliams.smugmug.com/
My brothers (e39 540) has a 2.82.
Speaking of BMW's, what's the deal with people on bimmerforums.com not knowing...well, anything.
By the way, the old engine is 100% out of the car.
http://zwilliams.smugmug.com/
http://zwilliams.smugmug.com/
If you say you knew nothing a year ago, how do you already have an engine lift and such? That's the kind of thing I don't plan on getting until I'm much much older (i.e. have a house and nice garage etc).
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
Well when your parents let your turn their property into a junk yard wouldn't you want a lift and stand too?
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
Looks like someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed.
But I can easily see antrieb learning as much as he has in a year. We all know how focused he has been on these cars. It's good he's actually learning as much as he can about them rather than just thinking he can throw stickers on them to make them faster.
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
http://zwilliams.smugmug.com/
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
Erik You forget you are talking to the oldest young man on the board.
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
In India the car performance scene is nascent.
80s and 90s when Petrol(Gasoline) prices were rising, engine swaps were done on old cars where Fuel efficient Diesel engines(rebuilt) were imported from Japan(Toyota, Daihatsu) and fitted in the fuel guzzlers. Diesel costs much cheaper, and absense of any enforcement on emissions/safety etc., led to a boom.
Economy opened up, and the trend is dying, atleast in big cities.
Now the focus is on performance mods.
But its still nascent.
K&N filter, Free flow, porting polishing, headers etc., are the basic mods which are considered extreme.
So a K&N Universal filter + Porting polishing+ Iridium plugs costs around Rs. 15000 (350$+). Add a good free flow with CAT and its 200$ more. Add an empty pipe, it just costs 40$. Not CATcon through
Some go for things like Tri-phase, Petes tuning boxes(Turbo diesel engines). Pete's tuning box can push power from 110bhp or so to 130+ at the flick of a switch in Hyundai cars.
Turbo charging is really rare, and few people get their Honda City's(B16 engine VTEC) turbo charged with power going from 110bhp to 150 or so,
Even fewer go for engine swaps.
The most common is in a very very small car called zen(Now discontinued). It weighs around 700kgs, comes with a 55bhp engine. People put in a 1.3L engine from the same company(Maruti Suzuki) and have a pocket rocket.
Another engine swap is to get a bigger honda engine from Japan(rebuilt) and plonk in their cars (Honda city again).
This costs a total of 170000Rs which is 4000$+ approx.
The engine is usually a 200bhp engine.
Currently in stock form in the mid size segment(C segment) which is just below luxury in India(In India Accord is a upper Luxury car, just one level below Mercedes/BMW), a very high performance car is a Common Rail diesel engines Hyundai Verna(Accent) which puts out 110bhp and 146Nm torque. So you can gather what high performance means here
Go to D segment, you have the Skoda Octavia RS, which is a turbo petrol pumping out 140bhp+. You also have the Hyundai Sonata Embera diesel(142bhp) and the Accord V6 there.
Coming back to this thread, I think engine swaps are more popular in the US.
Is it due to cheaper engines.
Can somebody give me an idea of the costs of the following in the US just to have things in perspective.
1. 250BHP engine, New/Rebuilt
2. ECU piggyback chip. ECU remap
3. Performance headers, Porting polishing, Iridium spark plugs
4. High performance filters
5. Free flow exausts.
Other basic mods and their costs?
What are the "street legal" issues you face.
In India in smaller towns there is no issue but in larger cities like New Delhi where police are more educated they can catch you for
1. Noise due to free flow's if its too loud
2. Underbody lighting
3. Strobes
4. Engine SWAP, since engine number will not match registeration, but many modders just swap the engine number plates too.
Coming to Visual mods, the HID craze is new here, with people fitting in HIDs in standard housings and blinding everybody else. Strobes have caught on, and in rare cases underbody lighting, but due to bad roads, the underbody lighting may not last if you go out of town often, or visit the bylanes.
FB:https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
Site :http://www.tanveer.in
Blog :http://tsk1979.livejournal.com
Engine costs vary by a ton. Typically people don't do engine swaps only to have 250hp. Let's say you have a basic old General Motors muscle car. A person can get a 440hp LS2 block engine from GM Performance Parts for $5,200. On the other hand, the stock engine for a 996 Porsche 911 is around $18,000.
ECU chips typically are around $400-500
something like a K&N I think is like $60, don't really know because quite frankly they are garbage, and in 99% of the cases people use them won't do anything at all, let alone the few extra hp they can make if you use them properly.
Underbody/strobes lighting will get you in trouble with the law, as will too loud unless you have Hot Rod license plates (these let you get away with a lot of things, but they limit how much you are allowed to drive per year and for what purpose you are allowed to drive).
Infact 100bhp car is considered a performance car here.
FB:https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
Site :http://www.tanveer.in
Blog :http://tsk1979.livejournal.com
If you want to have fun looking up American performance parts for American cars, go to jegs.com
I would say most new cars have 200 or more horsepower. Also, while Lambos are still pretty rare here, I'd say Mercedes S-Classes are not, I'll see a few of them every day.
FB:https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
Site :http://www.tanveer.in
Blog :http://tsk1979.livejournal.com
http://zwilliams.smugmug.com/
IIRC that engine is pretty garbage, so that's not really fair.
All this stuff largely depends on the model. BMW/Mercedes stuff there isn't much of a market for, but lets say you had one of the weaker small block chevy engines, something like an Edelbrock 45300 (350 chevy small block with 310hp sells for $4,400 new) and were upgrading to say a 435hp chevy 350 from edelbrock ($6,700 new). You'd probably get like $2500-3000 for the 310hp engine in good shape.
We are sorta the wrong people to ask here since we are mostly european car people here (well, Dragon likes japanese cars and Doc I guess likes bikes). With the German cars you either spend a TON of money to get something from one of the tuning houses, a TON of money to get some custom stuff made, or go through junkyards with not so much money and find an engine that was originally offered as an option in the same car you currently have. There just isn't much demand for German stuff in this country. The engine coming out of my car (1985 Mercedes 380SE engine, made like 207hp in europe and 155hp in the US) is totally worthless even though it runs perfectly. By that I mean nobody will even pay for the cost of shipping it to have it.
That would be correct, in particular Nissan/Datsun. I'm also fairly versed in the Chevy 4.3 V6.
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
Is that Chevy the same as the Vortec 4300? If so, garbage. Our first one crapped out after 36,000 miles, though the dealer agreed to comp $2000 and we paid $1000 to have it replaced. The second one has like 45,000 miles on it, and while there is nothing wrong with it, the engine in my 1985 Mercedes with 162,600 miles on it runs smoother...and my motor mounts are collapsed.
Yup thats the vortech 4300 and thats kinda not normal from what I have seen. My first 4300 lasted till 153k and the oil pump went, but to be fair I knew it was going and didn't replace it like I should have so that cost me the engine. The second one is close to 153k on it now and still going strong. Everything else on the car is falling apart though. But it does have the original trans with close to 200k on it. But then again that is about to fail too so.
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com