It all really boils down to whether you would rather spend your time fixing your computer and keeping it up to date and virus free, or just using your computer to work on your images and for the Web. As for me, after Service pack11 and further updates and security holes, I decided I would no longer be an unpaid Microsoft repairman. And I have not looked back. YMMV.
The web is much faster and more responsive on my MAC than on my Gateway Machine and they both share the same DSL line and both are running Firefox. I can listen for hours to internet radio without any glitches. And I can listen to Internet radio, RIP a CD, download an update to firmware for my 20D, and copy files from one hard drive to another all at the same time while I edit in Photoshopo. Try doing all that at the same time in XP and let me know how it works out.
I've just been exactly where you are. Needed to upgrade my portable (though not quite to the same spec as you) and had the whole mac vs pc dilemma. MAC pressure was intense, a.) because it looks great, and b.) because my best friend's husband kind of wrote their new MAC OS so they had a few opinions to drop into the debate too , but in the end I got myself a beautiful Vaio.
The main decision behind it was the repurchase of software issue, and having to relearn a totally new set of shortcode commands. It just seemed too much of an investment of both time and money for the sake of "security" which has never been a major issue for me in the first place. It took 6 months of soulsearching before I made a decisison though!! (and I still drool when I see that lovely shiney white plastic on someone else's desk)...
It all really boils down to whether you would rather spend your time fixing your computer and keeping it up to date and virus free, or just using your computer to work on your images and for the Web. As for me, after Service pack11 and further updates and security holes, I decided I would no longer be an unpaid Microsoft repairman. And I have not looked back. YMMV.
The web is much faster and more responsive on my MAC than on my Gateway Machine and they both share the same DSL line and both are running Firefox. I can listen for hours to internet radio without any glitches. And I can listen to Internet radio, RIP a CD, download an update to firmware for my 20D, and copy files from one hard drive to another all at the same time while I edit in Photoshopo. Try doing all that at the same time in XP and let me know how it works out.
sorry but this pc user disagrees. i've been on sp2 since it was first avial, and that has made this argument for macs imo less potent. properly configured and buttoned up (firewall, antivirus, sp2, etc....) a pc is plenty safe.
as to internet speed? i'm screaming fast and i too, listen to internet radio without a glitch, or watch a video, etc...
I considered the 30 inch display pretty seriously, but ended up with 2 23inch displays instead. You do get more screen real estate for the money this way.
Whatever you do, save a few dollars and get a better product by buying a reconditioned monitor from apple online. (There is a box for reconditioned stuff on the store site.) Reconditioned is better because there won't be any dead pixels. If you get a new one with a dead pixel, and return it, they fix it and sell as reconditioned. It can save a few hundred dollars on the 23inch monitor.
Once you buy your new computer, you'll need something for your wife, right? There's a birthday coming up, right? That's where I can really help you. Don't buy retaill! You money goes less than 1/2 as far at Tiffany as at a high end auction. Check out Sotheby's and Christies web sites for upcomming auctions of appropriate stuff. Don't be afraid that you'll be out of your price range here. You'll find stuff.
there's a killer apple store in soho - i'll be there this week. yabba dabba doo!
Have you seen the 30" in person? It is super sweet, but huge. I like the idea of dual displays. I would like to get a 23" LCD (well maybe the 30" if I could afford it ) and a 22" lacie. I think that offers the best of both worlds, good color and lots of space.
How about the down south crowd. I love my mac, no desire for a PC and I would love a DP 2.5 G5, but it will have to wait. OS X is going to actually use the 64 bit processing with Tiger and if the next PS release uses it too you could see a bump in speed with only software updates. I wish they would tell us if it is going to make a big difference or not. I would think it could.
Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!
I will say if you bought a G5 I think you would be very happy with it, but in reality if you are happy with PC's you will still end up getting the same results, but you only live once and you have the coolest new camera, doesn't it deserve the coolest new computer and biggest monitor?
'Gus has a good point. For PCs, we buy noname from the local Chinese computer store. Can't beat the service and price/performance.
Macs really are nice (I use 3 different ones) but they really are expensive for what you get vs pcs. You'll pay so much for a fancy Mac that you'll be stuck with it for much longer than a brand X pc. Meanwhile, the PC's are going to get faster at a pretty good clip. We just bought two 3.2GHz pcs each with 2GB of memory and 500GB in two disks. $1400/each.!
The Mac port of Photoshop is nicer than the PC version, IMHO. I've used both and you can tell which is the port and which is the mainline version.
But if you need to waste time on cool games, you need a PC.
Oh and don't forget to factor the choice of smugmug explorer vs smugmug.py into your choice! (I say smugmug.py is worth the learning curve and just wait until the next version hits the streets, but Nilolai's fans are not really candidates for it.)
Don't listen to the fanatics on either side. You have to make the right choice for yourself and your budget. (But remember not to buy jewelery retail!)
It's a tough call but I would first look at both a comparable PC and Mac then choose what features you want or need. By starting off with the dual proc G5 then comparing this to a Gateway $500 pc is a bit one sided. I would spec out a medium to high end pc, for example around the same price as the dual proc G5 THEN compare which is faster.
Also remember if we like it or not we live in a Windows world, Apple OS runs on about 5% of the desktop world if not less. Before you make the switch confirm that all of your software is available in Mac format and that the software you currently own is transferable (Adobe is great with their OS switching program). Some of my Canon software for my G3 is only available in PC format, while it’s not a huge loss still something to consider.
Just from my personal experience, I've been using primary PC's and various Mac's for about 20 years. The Mac OS has grown incredibly from the previous 9.x versions. It’s very easy to use and being built on BSD Unix makes it very solid. In fact many Mac users rarely reboot, something to get used to in the Windows world. Before with 9.x was a pain to get files copied from a Windows box but they resolved this problem. Also with Apple I think the biggest pro for them is how the OS is built directly for the hardware that it is running. Windows XP has to be tested with 1,000’s of different configurations and even then there are some that might not work.
Using PC’s I have a great experience with very few problems. Some OS’s weren’t too great, Windows 95 and 98 for example but after Windows 2000 I think the PC is very stable. The majority of problems I read about with the PC are typically from the users not following instructions or not keeping their PC up to date with patches. In the past year I had about 2 blue screens, once on my work PC and one on my notebook. It’s not perfect but I think that amount of time I’m on a computer that’s a pretty low down time percentage.
I almost bought a Powerbook this summer but bought an IBM for compatibility issues with applications and overall cost. After seriously considering the Mac I found that using it at school where the majority of computers are PC’s would cause some compatibility issues. Especially when taking computer science classes and I need to be using the same tools that are on the lab pc’s. I could have bought Virtual PC but this would have been an greater expense to an already expensive notebook.
Also keep in mind that no PC or Mac is perfect, while the PC might have more issues with the OS, it appears that Apple has more problems with hardware especially the Powerbook series. If you purchase the additional warrentry you should be ok with either PC’s or Mac’s.
After so many years of using PC’s as my main computer I think my next desktop will be a G5 iMac. I just like the idea of having a powerful command line combined with a easy to use desktop. Also I’m wondering just how much faster they really are. I’ll also admit the lure of the Apples are getting to me.
In the end test out both computers and see which one you like better. Apple’s are indeed nice but it’s a diverse OS with different strengths and weaknesses. PC’s a standard but have problems such as viruses and compatibility issues.
Have you seen the 30" in person? It is super sweet, but huge. I like the idea of dual displays. I would like to get a 23" LCD (well maybe the 30" if I could afford it ) and a 22" lacie. I think that offers the best of both worlds, good color and lots of space.
How about the down south crowd. I love my mac, no desire for a PC and I would love a DP 2.5 G5, but it will have to wait. OS X is going to actually use the 64 bit processing with Tiger and if the next PS release uses it too you could see a bump in speed with only software updates. I wish they would tell us if it is going to make a big difference or not. I would think it could.
Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!
I will say if you bought a G5 I think you would be very happy with it, but in reality if you are happy with PC's you will still end up getting the same results, but you only live once and you have the coolest new camera, doesn't it deserve the coolest new computer and biggest monitor?
Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!
Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!
Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!
Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!
Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!
Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!
Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!
Hey Patch,, Ya think Andy ought to get a MAC too?? :roll :roll :roll
Hey Patch,, Ya think Andy ought to get a MAC too?? :roll :roll :roll
Andy might not be smart enough for a mac. Whaddaya think?
rofl
"Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
I can see Andy taking the bow off that G5 box right now, ooooh and the 30", better start lifting weights to get the bow off of that big boy.
i never made it down to the apple store today, had some things come up. i am spending all day thursday in soho, and the lower east side, shopping and shooting, so i will definitely make it into the apple store. big apple store there in soho.
and: i yam 2 smert enug to utlimize a apple - mah momma teached me good, et a appladay keep that doctor not here
i never made it down to the apple store today, had some things come up. i am spending all day thursday in soho, and the lower east side, shopping and shooting, so i will definitely make it into the apple store. big apple store there in soho.
That is a cool store, two floors, unlike my local Apple store. I will usually go to the Apple store for free wi-fi when I am out of town, a nice little free bonus of visiting Apple.
and: i yam 2 smert enug to utlimize a apple - mah momma teached me good, et a appladay keep that doctor not here
I'm sooo relieved to hear that. Don't forget to check prices on the net.
"Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
But if you need to waste time on cool games, you need a PC.
I dunno about that. I seem to have no problem wasting time on Halo and Splinter Cell.
"Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
Personally, I'd stay away from Apple reconditioned computer and monitors sold through their website. You're better off buying new direct from an Apple Store. If you're concerned about dead pixels, no LCD manufacturer that I know of guarantees no dead pixels. Apple doesn't publish a certain "number" of dead pixels to make a monitor defective, but take it on a case by case basis. If you buy it from an Apple Retail store you have a much better chance of exchanging if you're not satisfied with the monitor. Apple's dead pixel policy is much more lenient than most manufacturers.
That being said, the majority of Apple LCDs don't have any dead pixels. And they're stunning to look at.
I'm getting whatever the next top-of-the line G5 tower is with a 23" monitor right when it comes out.
You can save money by purchasing additional RAM from a third party like www.crucial.com and installing it yourself.
You can save money by purchasing additional RAM from a third party like www.crucial.com and installing it yourself.
I remember a few years ago I priced a computer on Dell to get some ballpark figures for a friend and noticed that going from 512 to 1 GB cost more than buying 2 GB from a 3rd party. That's an extreme case, but I'm sure y'all get my point.
The hard drive upgrades are just as overpriced usually.
I've helped several friends with the upgrade from Windows to Mac. They are all happy they did it.
Speed will only improve with the release of the next OS, Tiger, due out early '05. Well, first half, anyway. And the features are very impressive. With the next major Windows release years off, the Mac advantage will only widen.
Any and all help you need, let me know. Tech support for a Mac is very easy.
here's an alienware system, to which i'd add the apple 30" cinema display and nvidia graphics board to drive it.
Can you run a 30" on a PC? I know that the 23" and lower will, but looking at the tech specs page at Apple, I'm not sure the 30" is compatible with a PC.
But you're forgetting that an Xbox is a neutered PC
Who said anything about xbox? I'm playing those on my MAC.
"Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
I remember a few years ago I priced a computer on Dell to get some ballpark figures for a friend and noticed that going from 512 to 1 GB cost more than buying 2 GB from a 3rd party. That's an extreme case, but I'm sure y'all get my point.
The hard drive upgrades are just as overpriced usually.
Yep...very true. Buy stock and do the memory and drive upgrades yourself.
"Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
Comments
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
i'm re-considering staying with a wintel box.....
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It all really boils down to whether you would rather spend your time fixing your computer and keeping it up to date and virus free, or just using your computer to work on your images and for the Web. As for me, after Service pack11 and further updates and security holes, I decided I would no longer be an unpaid Microsoft repairman. And I have not looked back. YMMV.
The web is much faster and more responsive on my MAC than on my Gateway Machine and they both share the same DSL line and both are running Firefox. I can listen for hours to internet radio without any glitches. And I can listen to Internet radio, RIP a CD, download an update to firmware for my 20D, and copy files from one hard drive to another all at the same time while I edit in Photoshopo. Try doing all that at the same time in XP and let me know how it works out.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
Buy a $400 box (use your old mouse ..monitor etc) & when it gets tired or out dated in 18 months...buy another.
You keep up with the speed & it keeps cost at a min.
gubbs.smugmug.com
The main decision behind it was the repurchase of software issue, and having to relearn a totally new set of shortcode commands. It just seemed too much of an investment of both time and money for the sake of "security" which has never been a major issue for me in the first place. It took 6 months of soulsearching before I made a decisison though!! (and I still drool when I see that lovely shiney white plastic on someone else's desk)...
sorry but this pc user disagrees. i've been on sp2 since it was first avial, and that has made this argument for macs imo less potent. properly configured and buttoned up (firewall, antivirus, sp2, etc....) a pc is plenty safe.
as to internet speed? i'm screaming fast and i too, listen to internet radio without a glitch, or watch a video, etc...
so that's not a reason for me any more
thanks for reply though!
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Whatever you do, save a few dollars and get a better product by buying a reconditioned monitor from apple online. (There is a box for reconditioned stuff on the store site.) Reconditioned is better because there won't be any dead pixels. If you get a new one with a dead pixel, and return it, they fix it and sell as reconditioned. It can save a few hundred dollars on the 23inch monitor.
Once you buy your new computer, you'll need something for your wife, right? There's a birthday coming up, right? That's where I can really help you. Don't buy retaill! You money goes less than 1/2 as far at Tiffany as at a high end auction. Check out Sotheby's and Christies web sites for upcomming auctions of appropriate stuff. Don't be afraid that you'll be out of your price range here. You'll find stuff.
Have you seen the 30" in person? It is super sweet, but huge. I like the idea of dual displays. I would like to get a 23" LCD (well maybe the 30" if I could afford it
How about the down south crowd. I love my mac, no desire for a PC and I would love a DP 2.5 G5, but it will have to wait. OS X is going to actually use the 64 bit processing with Tiger and if the next PS release uses it too you could see a bump in speed with only software updates. I wish they would tell us if it is going to make a big difference or not. I would think it could.
Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!
I will say if you bought a G5 I think you would be very happy with it, but in reality if you are happy with PC's you will still end up getting the same results, but you only live once and you have the coolest new camera, doesn't it deserve the coolest new computer and biggest monitor?
Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!
Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!
Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!
Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!
Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!
Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!
Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!
Macs really are nice (I use 3 different ones) but they really are expensive for what you get vs pcs. You'll pay so much for a fancy Mac that you'll be stuck with it for much longer than a brand X pc. Meanwhile, the PC's are going to get faster at a pretty good clip. We just bought two 3.2GHz pcs each with 2GB of memory and 500GB in two disks. $1400/each.!
The Mac port of Photoshop is nicer than the PC version, IMHO. I've used both and you can tell which is the port and which is the mainline version.
But if you need to waste time on cool games, you need a PC.
Oh and don't forget to factor the choice of smugmug explorer vs smugmug.py into your choice! (I say smugmug.py is worth the learning curve and just wait until the next version hits the streets, but Nilolai's fans are not really candidates for it.)
Don't listen to the fanatics on either side. You have to make the right choice for yourself and your budget. (But remember not to buy jewelery retail!)
Also remember if we like it or not we live in a Windows world, Apple OS runs on about 5% of the desktop world if not less. Before you make the switch confirm that all of your software is available in Mac format and that the software you currently own is transferable (Adobe is great with their OS switching program). Some of my Canon software for my G3 is only available in PC format, while it’s not a huge loss still something to consider.
Just from my personal experience, I've been using primary PC's and various Mac's for about 20 years. The Mac OS has grown incredibly from the previous 9.x versions. It’s very easy to use and being built on BSD Unix makes it very solid. In fact many Mac users rarely reboot, something to get used to in the Windows world. Before with 9.x was a pain to get files copied from a Windows box but they resolved this problem. Also with Apple I think the biggest pro for them is how the OS is built directly for the hardware that it is running. Windows XP has to be tested with 1,000’s of different configurations and even then there are some that might not work.
Using PC’s I have a great experience with very few problems. Some OS’s weren’t too great, Windows 95 and 98 for example but after Windows 2000 I think the PC is very stable. The majority of problems I read about with the PC are typically from the users not following instructions or not keeping their PC up to date with patches. In the past year I had about 2 blue screens, once on my work PC and one on my notebook. It’s not perfect but I think that amount of time I’m on a computer that’s a pretty low down time percentage.
I almost bought a Powerbook this summer but bought an IBM for compatibility issues with applications and overall cost. After seriously considering the Mac I found that using it at school where the majority of computers are PC’s would cause some compatibility issues. Especially when taking computer science classes and I need to be using the same tools that are on the lab pc’s. I could have bought Virtual PC but this would have been an greater expense to an already expensive notebook.
Also keep in mind that no PC or Mac is perfect, while the PC might have more issues with the OS, it appears that Apple has more problems with hardware especially the Powerbook series. If you purchase the additional warrentry you should be ok with either PC’s or Mac’s.
After so many years of using PC’s as my main computer I think my next desktop will be a G5 iMac. I just like the idea of having a powerful command line combined with a easy to use desktop. Also I’m wondering just how much faster they really are. I’ll also admit the lure of the Apples are getting to me.
In the end test out both computers and see which one you like better. Apple’s are indeed nice but it’s a diverse OS with different strengths and weaknesses. PC’s a standard but have problems such as viruses and compatibility issues.
Cnet’s PC to Mac migration page
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-10163_7-5589357-1.html?tag=cnetfd.dl
Apple’s OS switching page
http://www.apple.com/switch/
Intel’s Photography page
http://www.intel.com/personal/do_more/photography/index.htm?iid=ipc+LHN_entertainment_photography&
Good luck!
Rob
Hey Patch,, Ya think Andy ought to get a MAC too?? :roll :roll :roll
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
Andy might not be smart enough for a mac. Whaddaya think?
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
[This is fun, isn't it?]
Maybe he went to SOHO today and is busy hooking up his new G5 as we speak.
He does shoot with a Canon, so he is half way there. Join the Rebel Alliance and leave the Darkside, Andy. Get a Mac.
Now now - lets all try to be nice Ok???? Guys????
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
I can see Andy taking the bow off that G5 box right now, ooooh and the 30", better start lifting weights to get the bow off of that big boy.
i never made it down to the apple store today, had some things come up. i am spending all day thursday in soho, and the lower east side, shopping and shooting, so i will definitely make it into the apple store. big apple store there in soho.
and: i yam 2 smert enug to utlimize a apple - mah momma teached me good, et a appladay keep that doctor not here
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That is a cool store, two floors, unlike my local Apple store. I will usually go to the Apple store for free wi-fi when I am out of town, a nice little free bonus of visiting Apple.
I'm sooo relieved to hear that. Don't forget to check prices on the net.
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
That being said, the majority of Apple LCDs don't have any dead pixels. And they're stunning to look at.
I'm getting whatever the next top-of-the line G5 tower is with a 23" monitor right when it comes out.
You can save money by purchasing additional RAM from a third party like www.crucial.com and installing it yourself.
Good luck!
The hard drive upgrades are just as overpriced usually.
Of course, I'm going to suggest you get a Mac.
As for cost, read this.
I've helped several friends with the upgrade from Windows to Mac. They are all happy they did it.
Speed will only improve with the release of the next OS, Tiger, due out early '05. Well, first half, anyway. And the features are very impressive. With the next major Windows release years off, the Mac advantage will only widen.
Any and all help you need, let me know. Tech support for a Mac is very easy.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Why? Same warranty.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Can you run a 30" on a PC? I know that the 23" and lower will, but looking at the tech specs page at Apple, I'm not sure the 30" is compatible with a PC.
http://www.apple.com/displays/specs.html
EDIT: well, maybe you can, but it looks to be a pain in the butt
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
Yep...very true. Buy stock and do the memory and drive upgrades yourself.
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson