In FF 2.0, i find that the "persistent" exif box is not so persistent. When I open an image in the lightbox, the exif box disappears when the LB is closed.
Also, i like all these slick looking things, however, they do something that i despise on photo sites. They all cover the image. I didnt like it with the thumbs, and they were just kinda tiny, but these things are huge. I find that I have to move the exif thing every time. Also, sometimes it seems to randomly move by a few pixels, havnt been able to sort out why.
Would it be possible to have the pop out thingies slide out to the side or something? or the bottom where there may be more room? then they could even always be there, and look just as slick and "web 2.0"
-r
good catch on the lightbox thing.
for the exif box moving by a few pixels...it automagically repositions itself when you resize the window, but other than that it shouldnt move. Is this the behavior you're seeing?
K, it just did it again. It was 6 minutes or more (timed from my last post on the topic to a minute ago). And all it took was clicking on the tab, and the page reloaded.
EDIT: Fully updated OSX 10.4.
i cant reproduce. i'll run this by jimmy and see if he can get it to happen.
oooooh, I like the drop down selection box for the page...very cool. Of course, now the 'back' link looks silly, perhaps an icon is needed for that too.
I really like the flyout exif box, and I did figure out that I could move it when the mouse pointer changed, so that worked well for me.
However, I am having trouble finding a place to park it, it seems to always manage to cover something. Its not too big, just not 'smart enough'. I was thinking perhaps a WindowBlinds kind of roll up would be cool, say on click or after 15 seconds or something, to help minimize it. Could even have it disappear when you remove the mouse from the photo, reappearing on mouseover. That way I can really look at the picture and check the exif, etc.
This is very good stuff.
I think I am going to dream about pigeons all nite...
I have a problem with Firefox 2.0 crashing inconsistently (but often) when closing the lightbox. I'm unable to come up with consistent steps for reproducing the crash but basically I can get it to crash in 30 seconds or less by switching photos and viewing them in lightbox.
This is on the release version of Windows Vista x64 and Firefox 2.0. So it may not really be your problem at all
Will these trial accounts on the beta server expire in 15 days? If you plan to go live with this update within the next two weeks, I guess it doesn't matter.
Do I login here also? I did using my regular login (e-mail and current PW, but it givesme a the error "your login/PW is incorrect...it is not). I tried the username/password and all other possible combinations, no luck. What am I doing wrong.
PS. looks like I am the only one with this trouble so it must be something I am not doing. Your help is appreciated.
Jackal
Last time we released something major, we didn't have an open beta. But we listened, and learned, and now we've got one for the latest big release. Details are over on the Beta page on our Wiki.
This isn't a final product - it's a beta. We know there are bugs, we've listed some of them on the Wiki, so read carefully. If you find new things, or want to give us some feedback, this thread is the place to do it.
Hopefully everyone likes the super-speed and extra clean layout, but feel free to let us have it if you don't.
Do I login here also? I did using my regular login (e-mail and current PW, but it givesme a the error "your login/PW is incorrect...it is not). I tried the username/password and all other possible combinations, no luck. What am I doing wrong.
PS. looks like I am the only one with this trouble so it must be something I am not doing. Your help is appreciated.
Jackal
Hi, if you want to try an account, you have to actually create one from the beta.smugmug.net homepage. It's free of course.
Well that presents another issue then that we will have to discuss. Perhaps it isn't obvious enough that it persists.
Like DavidTO said, the red x should be good enough - I'm just dumb sometimes. Also, the "arrow keys change photo" text at the top hints at the fact that the window will hang around after the photo is switched.
What about a little 'flap' on the edge of a photo - this would grab the vieweres attention that there is something there for us to see - and we will move our pointer to the area, bringing the flyout. Eh? Eh?
Personally, I'd find this annoying. I don't want anything I didn't specify being "attached" to my photos all the time. Just my opinion, though. I prefer Smugmug's current implementation to Zenfolio's. With Zen, a little gray area pops over the photo when it's moused over. You then have to travel to the gray area and wait even longer for actual commands to show up. Much less waiting with SM.
The "problem" I think you're running into is this: Many of us are still very used to the constraints of Web 1.0. They are now ingrained in our intuition about how the internet works. So, as you add these cutting edge features, it's going to take some time for people to think outside the box (quite literally). Despite my earlier posts, the more I think about it, I'm not sure you should expend too much effort leading people to some of these features. I think it's really a matter of education and time. Eventually, we'll all just expect things to work like fancy, dragable, persistent windows.
A good analogy is right-click context menus in Windows. Back in they day, they didn't exist. I don't know how long they existed before I even started using them. But now, if I can't find a feature or option on the screen, I right click it just expecting I'll be presented with a context-sensitive menu. As natural as that is to me now, Windows never "directed" me to find them. Had it, there would have been one more thing cluttering my screen.
Personally, I'd find this annoying. I don't want anything I didn't specify being "attached" to my photos all the time. Just my opinion, though. I prefer Smugmug's current implementation to Zenfolio's. With Zen, a little gray area pops over the photo when it's moused over. You then have to travel to the gray area and wait even longer for actual commands to show up. Much less waiting with SM.
I see your point on the flappy thing idea, but if no one ever places their mouse over the larger image (I never do unless I accidently bump/move the mouse) - the new features will never be used. When in a gallery situation with lots of photos, my mouse pointer stays in the gallery area unless I have lots of text to read then I might use the pointer and move along the text with it (dunno why).
The old way, is that the info is right there in front of you waiting for you to click it (assuming we allow its placement). It's nice not having that there, but at the same time - I prefer that option. Also - with it right there in front of you - you (the new visiter) are aware that there are choices and/or options for you.
for the exif box moving by a few pixels...it automagically repositions itself when you resize the window, but other than that it shouldnt move. Is this the behavior you're seeing?
It seems to be moving behind the lightbox when the LB opens, or also when an image is opened that is say, portrait when i was viewing a landscape. I'll try to find an example.
The old way, is that the info is right there in front of you waiting for you to click it (assuming we allow its placement). It's nice not having that there, but at the same time - I prefer that option. Also - with it right there in front of you - you (the new visiter) are aware that there are choices and/or options for you.
I'll concede that choice is always good. If SmugMug were to offer an option around this, would you rather it be an either/or thing, or a one-or-both thing?
I'll concede that choice is always good. If SmugMug were to offer an option around this, would you rather it be an either/or thing, or a one-or-both thing?
Hard choice I'm always for the latest and greatest (just check out my dozen cameras). Being into photography, I for one am always interested in the exif.
I'm torn between the clean look with the new way, and that the hey flyout is so professional looking. But at the same time, the new way might not get noticed/used because the new way you don't see anything unless you happen to drag the mouse over the photo... sigh...don't make me choose!
But choice is good (lets just go with that non choosing answer)
Couple of comments on the behavior of the arrow keys...
I'm not sure if AJAX apps can handle combined keystrokes, but something like a shift-arrow or a ctrl-arrow (or command-arrow, of course ) would be neat for jumping between gallery pages lickety-spilt.
Regarding the up/down arrows. I loved them at first, but now I'm a bit mixed. When I first used them, I was working on a desktop machine with a nice big monitor and a nice big browser window. The entire gallery page was showing up within the browser window, so using up/down seemed just as natural as using left/right. However, this morning, when using my 1024x768 laptop, I couldn't see the the bottom of the main image when a gallery loaded. I hit the down arrow out of habit, and instead of scrolling my browser, the picture changed (of course). That was irksome to have to go back to the touchpad to scroll the window. I'm not sure what the answer is - just reporting my experience.
Thanks again for all the work you guys have done on this. I know I'm posting a bunch - mostly because I was dying to see you implement something like this and I'm so stoked that it's here!
Couple of comments on the behavior of the arrow keys...
I'm not sure if AJAX apps can handle combined keystrokes, but something like a shift-arrow or a ctrl-arrow (or command-arrow, of course ) would be neat for jumping between gallery pages lickety-spilt.
What about [page up] and [page down] to move between gallery pages and [home] and [end] to go to the first gallery page and last gallery page?
I tried this and didn't see that the keys were used for anything, but maybe I missed something?
I like the up/down option when using the Smugmug style.
Has anyone considered how the site will appear on PDAs? Does ajax work on Windows Mobile? Just a consideration, especially with the vast amount of people that are now using mobile options.
I've only reviewed the new format for a little while, but here are my initial thoughts.
The new icons are cool looking.
The flyout speed is frustratingly slow. For people who go through a gallery and want to save all original photos (alt-click in FF bypasses the save..as dialog and just saves it), this new interface will be quite a bit slower.
Why do the EXIF and buttons need to overlay on the image? There is plenty of room for this info to appear below the image as a flyout or even permanently (should be user controllable).
How about a shorter EXIF info that is always on. For example, exposure could be simplified into something like: "1/60s @ f 1/4, ISO 200". In the attached picture, I simplified it into the 5 most used items, IMO.
Bulk zoom thumbnails add-on doesn't work. I use this tool every time I upload photos. Can you implement a bulk tool? how about have it process in background (like rotating) so that I can just zoom them and move on.
"Photo Info" should mention EXIF, for example "Photo Info/EXIF"
Me too. Although I have a scroll mouse, on my laptop I often use the laptop-friendly cross-browser keyboard navigation for browsing. That is:
Spacebar and Shift-Spacebar to scroll vertically in big chunks
Up Arrow/Down Arrow to scroll vertically one line at a time
Command-[ and ] for Back/Forward
Pressing Up/Down arrow in the smugmug beta site simultaneously changes the photo and scrolls the page, if the page is taller than the window (causing scroll bars to be present).
Also, I don't like the "Back" label in the smugmug beta. In browsers, Back means "the previous page in your browser history which could be on a completely different site." I understand that Back is shorter than Previous, but the term Back has such a specific meaning in everyone's browser experience that I don't feel comfortable using it to refer to something that isn't about the browser history.
Nice!
I like it. Just did some preliminary fiddling around with it but seems to work just fine. Clean and fast as advertised and I actually thought the flyouts were pretty cool.
Me too. Although I have a scroll mouse, on my laptop I often use the laptop-friendly cross-browser keyboard navigation for browsing. That is:
Spacebar and Shift-Spacebar to scroll vertically in big chunks
Up Arrow/Down Arrow to scroll vertically one line at a time
Command-[ and ] for Back/Forward
Pressing Up/Down arrow in the smugmug beta site simultaneously changes the photo and scrolls the page, if the page is taller than the window (causing scroll bars to be present).
Also, I don't like the "Back" label in the smugmug beta. In browsers, Back means "the previous page in your browser history which could be on a completely different site." I understand that Back is shorter than Previous, but the term Back has such a specific meaning in everyone's browser experience that I don't feel comfortable using it to refer to something that isn't about the browser history.
we have figured out how to prevent scrolling with the up/down keys. does that change anyone's opinion?
I like it. Just did some preliminary fiddling around with it but seems to work just fine. Clean and fast as advertised and I actually thought the flyouts were pretty cool.
cavalierphoto.beta.smugmug.net
I noticed on your beta site Chris, that your images tend to shift/shimmer when the mouse pointer is placed over the larger image. I didn't notice this on my site as all my photos are landscape where as most of yours are portrait...is this what others have mentioned about shifting a pixel or two? Doesn't seem to do it with IE6 but it does with FF2.
Derek
EDIT: BTW: Awesome IR images - they really look great with the white background
we have figured out how to prevent scrolling with the up/down keys. does that change anyone's opinion?
Problem is that when real estate is limited, scrolling is exactly what I want the up/down arrows to do. Wish I could have it both ways. How's that for frustrating users?
Problem is that when real estate is limited, scrolling is exactly what I want the up/down arrows to do. Wish I could have it both ways. How's that for frustrating users?
no worries man, i never ever use the up/down arrows for scrolling so this is a good discussion.
we have figured out how to prevent scrolling with the up/down keys. does that change anyone's opinion?
I prefer that the previous/next image navigation should be assigned only to the left/right arrow keys. The beauty of left/right is that there is no previously assigned cross-browser default behavior to conflict with. If you have to override the cross-browser default behavior for up/down arrow, I'd prefer up/down arrow to do vertical image navigation in the two-dimensional image grids such as the thumbnail view or the thumbnails on the left side of the default view, working as we're used to in the icon views on the Mac and Windows desktops. For example, if you have 6 thumbnails in 2 rows and you are viewing image 2, pressing Down Arrow would go to the image in that column that's down one row, or image 5. If it is single-image view with no thumbnails at all, I'd prefer up/down arrow to not affect images, only the usual browser scrolling.
Although I wonder if I represent the majority, and would like to see what everybody else thinks too. I have noticed that most of my friends are very mouse-oriented and wouldn't notice whichever way the keyboard works. On the other hand, I also wonder if there are accessibility implications for cutting off up/down arrow scrolling, such as UI assistance utilities that might hook into that. I really don't know anything on that subject, just brainstorming.
I noticed on your beta site Chris, that your images tend to shift/shimmer when the mouse pointer is placed over the larger image. I didn't notice this on my site as all my photos are landscape where as most of yours are portrait...is this what others have mentioned about shifting a pixel or two? Doesn't seem to do it with IE6 but it does with FF2.
Derek
EDIT: BTW: Awesome IR images - they really look great with the white background
we have figured out how to prevent scrolling with the up/down keys. does that change anyone's opinion?
:nah
But then again, I'm a Mac guy, and I don't have the slavish obsession with the keyboard that Windows users have.
What I really think is that the left/right arrows are intuitive in a way that the up/down arrows are not. I think that the limited number of users that think of trying the up/down arrow combination will be greatly outnumbered by those that are completely flummoxed by the behavior of moving from image to image. And then, do you go to the next page at the bottom of a column, or up to the top of the adjacent column? It's all just too weird for me. KISS.
Comments
for the exif box moving by a few pixels...it automagically repositions itself when you resize the window, but other than that it shouldnt move. Is this the behavior you're seeing?
Hmm, it just did it again. I'll check it out in Flock, too, mebbe.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
I really like the flyout exif box, and I did figure out that I could move it when the mouse pointer changed, so that worked well for me.
However, I am having trouble finding a place to park it, it seems to always manage to cover something. Its not too big, just not 'smart enough'. I was thinking perhaps a WindowBlinds kind of roll up would be cool, say on click or after 15 seconds or something, to help minimize it. Could even have it disappear when you remove the mouse from the photo, reappearing on mouseover. That way I can really look at the picture and check the exif, etc.
This is very good stuff.
I think I am going to dream about pigeons all nite...
I have a problem with Firefox 2.0 crashing inconsistently (but often) when closing the lightbox. I'm unable to come up with consistent steps for reproducing the crash but basically I can get it to crash in 30 seconds or less by switching photos and viewing them in lightbox.
This is on the release version of Windows Vista x64 and Firefox 2.0. So it may not really be your problem at all
High Desert Racing Photography
Do I login here also? I did using my regular login (e-mail and current PW, but it givesme a the error "your login/PW is incorrect...it is not). I tried the username/password and all other possible combinations, no luck. What am I doing wrong.
PS. looks like I am the only one with this trouble so it must be something I am not doing. Your help is appreciated.
Jackal
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Like DavidTO said, the red x should be good enough - I'm just dumb sometimes. Also, the "arrow keys change photo" text at the top hints at the fact that the window will hang around after the photo is switched.
Swim for Them | WellmanHouse.net | AlbumFetcher | SmugShowBuilder
Personally, I'd find this annoying. I don't want anything I didn't specify being "attached" to my photos all the time. Just my opinion, though. I prefer Smugmug's current implementation to Zenfolio's. With Zen, a little gray area pops over the photo when it's moused over. You then have to travel to the gray area and wait even longer for actual commands to show up. Much less waiting with SM.
Swim for Them | WellmanHouse.net | AlbumFetcher | SmugShowBuilder
I agree completely.
Swim for Them | WellmanHouse.net | AlbumFetcher | SmugShowBuilder
I see your point on the flappy thing idea, but if no one ever places their mouse over the larger image (I never do unless I accidently bump/move the mouse) - the new features will never be used. When in a gallery situation with lots of photos, my mouse pointer stays in the gallery area unless I have lots of text to read then I might use the pointer and move along the text with it (dunno why).
The old way, is that the info is right there in front of you waiting for you to click it (assuming we allow its placement). It's nice not having that there, but at the same time - I prefer that option. Also - with it right there in front of you - you (the new visiter) are aware that there are choices and/or options for you.
What did Cinderella say when she left the photo shop? "One day my prints will come."
It seems to be moving behind the lightbox when the LB opens, or also when an image is opened that is say, portrait when i was viewing a landscape. I'll try to find an example.
-r
I'll concede that choice is always good.
Swim for Them | WellmanHouse.net | AlbumFetcher | SmugShowBuilder
Hard choice
I'm torn between the clean look with the new way, and that the hey flyout is so professional looking. But at the same time, the new way might not get noticed/used because the new way you don't see anything unless you happen to drag the mouse over the photo... sigh...don't make me choose!
But choice is good (lets just go with that non choosing answer)
What did Cinderella say when she left the photo shop? "One day my prints will come."
- I'm not sure if AJAX apps can handle combined keystrokes, but something like a shift-arrow or a ctrl-arrow (or command-arrow, of course
) would be neat for jumping between gallery pages lickety-spilt.
- Regarding the up/down arrows. I loved them at first, but now I'm a bit mixed. When I first used them, I was working on a desktop machine with a nice big monitor and a nice big browser window. The entire gallery page was showing up within the browser window, so using up/down seemed just as natural as using left/right. However, this morning, when using my 1024x768 laptop, I couldn't see the the bottom of the main image when a gallery loaded. I hit the down arrow out of habit, and instead of scrolling my browser, the picture changed (of course). That was irksome to have to go back to the touchpad to scroll the window. I'm not sure what the answer is - just reporting my experience.
Thanks again for all the work you guys have done on this. I know I'm posting a bunch - mostly because I was dying to see you implement something like this and I'm so stoked that it's here!Swim for Them | WellmanHouse.net | AlbumFetcher | SmugShowBuilder
I tried this and didn't see that the keys were used for anything, but maybe I missed something?
http://mkress65.zenfolio.com
http://mkress65.smugmug.com
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Why?
I like the up/down option when using the Smugmug style.
Has anyone considered how the site will appear on PDAs? Does ajax work on Windows Mobile? Just a consideration, especially with the vast amount of people that are now using mobile options.
Canon 40D
www.digipose.com
- The new icons are cool looking.
- The flyout speed is frustratingly slow. For people who go through a gallery and want to save all original photos (alt-click in FF bypasses the save..as dialog and just saves it), this new interface will be quite a bit slower.
- Why do the EXIF and buttons need to overlay on the image? There is plenty of room for this info to appear below the image as a flyout or even permanently (should be user controllable).
- How about a shorter EXIF info that is always on. For example, exposure could be simplified into something like: "1/60s @ f 1/4, ISO 200". In the attached picture, I simplified it into the 5 most used items, IMO.
- Bulk zoom thumbnails add-on doesn't work. I use this tool every time I upload photos. Can you implement a bulk tool? how about have it process in background (like rotating) so that I can just zoom them and move on.
- "Photo Info" should mention EXIF, for example "Photo Info/EXIF"
-ScottSomething like this...
scwalter.smugmug.com
Me too. Although I have a scroll mouse, on my laptop I often use the laptop-friendly cross-browser keyboard navigation for browsing. That is:
Spacebar and Shift-Spacebar to scroll vertically in big chunks
Up Arrow/Down Arrow to scroll vertically one line at a time
Command-[ and ] for Back/Forward
Pressing Up/Down arrow in the smugmug beta site simultaneously changes the photo and scrolls the page, if the page is taller than the window (causing scroll bars to be present).
Also, I don't like the "Back" label in the smugmug beta. In browsers, Back means "the previous page in your browser history which could be on a completely different site." I understand that Back is shorter than Previous, but the term Back has such a specific meaning in everyone's browser experience that I don't feel comfortable using it to refer to something that isn't about the browser history.
I like it. Just did some preliminary fiddling around with it but seems to work just fine. Clean and fast as advertised and I actually thought the flyouts were pretty cool.
cavalierphoto.beta.smugmug.net
www.cavalierphotographic.com
Facebook , Google+
Derek
EDIT: BTW: Awesome IR images - they really look great with the white background
What did Cinderella say when she left the photo shop? "One day my prints will come."
Problem is that when real estate is limited, scrolling is exactly what I want the up/down arrows to do. Wish I could have it both ways. How's that for frustrating users?
Swim for Them | WellmanHouse.net | AlbumFetcher | SmugShowBuilder
Fantastic idea!
Swim for Them | WellmanHouse.net | AlbumFetcher | SmugShowBuilder
I prefer that the previous/next image navigation should be assigned only to the left/right arrow keys. The beauty of left/right is that there is no previously assigned cross-browser default behavior to conflict with. If you have to override the cross-browser default behavior for up/down arrow, I'd prefer up/down arrow to do vertical image navigation in the two-dimensional image grids such as the thumbnail view or the thumbnails on the left side of the default view, working as we're used to in the icon views on the Mac and Windows desktops. For example, if you have 6 thumbnails in 2 rows and you are viewing image 2, pressing Down Arrow would go to the image in that column that's down one row, or image 5. If it is single-image view with no thumbnails at all, I'd prefer up/down arrow to not affect images, only the usual browser scrolling.
Although I wonder if I represent the majority, and would like to see what everybody else thinks too. I have noticed that most of my friends are very mouse-oriented and wouldn't notice whichever way the keyboard works. On the other hand, I also wonder if there are accessibility implications for cutting off up/down arrow scrolling, such as UI assistance utilities that might hook into that. I really don't know anything on that subject, just brainstorming.
Hadn't noticed anything like that initially so I had to double check but no I'm not seeing that and I'm using FF2.
Thanks for the comments on the photos
www.cavalierphotographic.com
Facebook , Google+
:nah
But then again, I'm a Mac guy, and I don't have the slavish obsession with the keyboard that Windows users have.
What I really think is that the left/right arrows are intuitive in a way that the up/down arrows are not. I think that the limited number of users that think of trying the up/down arrow combination will be greatly outnumbered by those that are completely flummoxed by the behavior of moving from image to image. And then, do you go to the next page at the bottom of a column, or up to the top of the adjacent column? It's all just too weird for me. KISS.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops