Revert back to the second state... Although the close icon does pretty much the same thing I guess... So to keep it simple, ignore the "Dock Icon" bit...
I like your 1st and 3rd ideas. The second is too busy with all the exif displayed (if it's automatically displayed such as in critique mode I believe it's called). I like the first choice as I know as a viewer that there is extra info there if I choose to view it but if I don't click on it, it's still clean.
I love the flyouts. I do. But with nothing there to indicate that there is something there....people could miss it. When I'm in a gallery, my mouse normally does not go over to the larger images, the pointer sticks around the thumbnail area.
I suggested a 'flap' before. Understandable that someone mentioned that they didn't like a flap on the image - agreed. Why not a flap beside the image? Kinda like those cardboard/paper folders you might use where the tab is off to the side?
The tab wouldn't/shouldn't be ON the folder, but next to it like those tab folders. It's out of the way, but it's a reminder to new visitors that - hey: there is some extra for me to do. Place pointer on the tab, then the fly out - well: flys out! Or have it at the bottom of the image.
Just a thought.
(lately, I've been thinking how great SM has being at bringing us a nice update, and we are tearing it apart! I for one love the idea, and the flyout looks really professional - and of course I love the speed that the larger images appear: things that make not only SM look better, but US as well as people judge us from what our sites look like and how well they work or don't work: not just the photos they see.)
Personally I do not think the flyouts will be a big problem the first time a visitor runs their mouse over an image. I have a hard time keeping the flyouts from opening up. Once a visitor purposely or by accident sees the flyouts I don't think there will be a need for any explanation.
My Pictures : My Gear
I Reject Your Reality And Substitute My Own - Adam Savage
seems like we have some very cool capabilities now, but I hope the features are added very carefully, not just cus it's cool. The flyout are ok, but make it optional. I don't think they should replace the old ways to select a feature. just like most windows programs, there can be several ways to select a function (via the Menu, the tool bar, right-clicking, Keyboard shortcuts, etc.) Just because you implement a cool fly out, don't take away the good old fashioned links or buttons...
I like the effort being made regarding the exif display, but I agree with previous poster about "docking"... a new window to show the exif is in the way, I gotta move it around trying to find somewhere out of the way to put it... I'd rather just have the exif show either below, or to the side (like critique) of the image (optionally of course).
The flyouts might be a cool way to add features to the Journal where you are trying to keep out the clutter there... (of course, any new features on the journal would be appreciated since that is all I use)
nice work otherwise, some very interesting functionality not typically seen from within a browser!
I think one thing we, even myself keep forgetting is that the SmugMug style is one of many other different styles that do different things. I'm all for the clean looking "SmugMug" style. For those that want more exif info on the screen check out the current "critique" style.
As someone who also has a Zenfolio account simply moving the exif pallette over the thumbnails while browsing works somewhat similar to the way Zen does it. Zen has tabs to switch between thumbnail and information mode.
My Pictures : My Gear
I Reject Your Reality And Substitute My Own - Adam Savage
For those that want more exif info on the screen check out the current "critique" style.
I find the critique style to busy. I like the way it is now with the smugmug style - a link that if we choose to check it, we can. Nice and clean unless we click on it. Also, with critique style, no gallery thumbs at all.
First and foremost - Excellent job guys, glad to see the many new features on the way and all the hard work. Best of all I love the concept of a beta to discuss. Most of this is really cool - I'm talking about the fast loading and clean look. Major kudos!!!
A few questions:
1) This "phase 2" you speak of, is that phase 2 of a beta or are you going to go live with "phase 1" before implementing phase 2?
2) Order of magnitude estimate for phase 2 after phase 1 is polished (days, weeks, months, a year...)?
3) I noticed lots of divs on the EXIF flyout so it looks pretty customizable, is it possible to change its starting opening location to not be smack dab over the photo? Could I make it two columns to fit someplace better? Again, not asking the sitewide default to change, but will this be possible with CSS?
4) Same question for the image size flyout.
5) Are there any hints as to what types of customization is likely to break in phase 2? I was just starting up customization so I might just pause. I'd like to try things that are less likely to break in the future if possible though.
A strong comment:
I'm very concerned about the lack of default viewing size option, the response has been "phase 2" but I don't think anything should go live without it. Otherwise users are forced to go into lightbox.
The lightbox, while flashy and cool looking, is the most retarded UI concept you guys ever came up with. Parallel navigation methods is just plain stupid. (I especially love the way you made it transparent by default so that the user can see the useful navigation system they'd rather be using taunting them from behind). It is the dumb blonde of the website - pretty to look at but you'd never want to marry her. Well, if you go live with this as it is I'm going to have a shotgun wedding with her and I won't be happy about it.
So anyway, the point is from my perspective going to "phase 1" is a major downgrade of the smugmug style unless this is rectified. I want large images and not in the moronic lightbox thing. I currently use the smugmug style just about everywhere so it'd be painful. What would be a good option would be to have a "smugmug classic" or "smugmug fogey" or whatever you want to call it style that people could switch to while they wait for the full fledged phase 2 goodness.
Other (more positive) comments:
And now that I'm done bashing the lightbox (it deserves it) I've got to highlight again that I think on the whole this new interface is *amazing* on the whole. A major improvement. Can't wait to play more with it and can't wait to see what else you've got up your sleave.
I'm just as torn as everyone else about all the flyouts. They are a little non-intuative - but I love the clean look too!
I think taking over the up down arrows is likely to really PO a lot of users, I'd give that the heave-ho. Personally not a strong point with me, but stealing keys people are already used to tends to be a bad thing.
I have to play with this more, and I'm going to try some customizing on it too.
Again, MAJOR COOL! (but please give me an out for large without lightbox)
As long as we are making changes...I would like the option to number the amount of thumbnails visible (instead of the default 15 for Smugmug for example. I'd like to see choices of 6,9,12 thumbs)
that second state wont work with a normal size image. you'll end up with too much dead space below the thumbs (yes, i understand you can collapse it).
No, it will work... It's just that your personal preference would be against using that state... My point is that you give the user the flexibility to choose which state they want... Personally I'd go for State 1 90% of the time... But I'd still choose State 2 over 3 for another 8%... Obviously I'm making these figures up... But personally, I seldom want to use State 3... It's a neat, definitly... But I just don't find it as useful... I think I'd only use it when I really wanted to analyse part of a photograph in detail - in which case I think this might be something better suited to a larger viewing area - the lightbox... But that's just me personally...
No, it will work... It's just that your personal preference would be against using that state... My point is that you give the user the flexibility to choose which state they want... Personally I'd go for State 1 90% of the time... But I'd still choose State 2 over 3 for another 8%... Obviously I'm making these figures up... But personally, I seldom want to use State 3... It's a neat, definitly... But I just don't find it as useful... I think I'd only use it when I really wanted to analyse part of a photograph in detail - in which case I think this might be something better suited to a larger viewing area - the lightbox... But that's just me personally...
thanks for your feedback, we're still discussing ways to try and cover all the bases.
No, Thank YOU GUYS for being so open and honest, and giving us a chance to weigh in on these changes... I know how frustrating it is to have your work "ripped apart", however unintentionally, from so many people, from so many angles... You're doing a great job and I for one really appreciate it...
I'm sure you know this, but you will never please everyone... However, I think you've done the right thing with going "Open Beta" and you're going to be much closer to pleasing the majority than if you hadn't... Even if things don't change a helluva lot before it goes live, this thread will have made people realise just how hard it is trying to come up with an interface that ticks all the boxes - especially when the boxes contradict each other!
My respect for SmugMug has shifted into a higher gear over the last few days... Thank you!
No, Thank YOU GUYS for being so open and honest, and giving us a chance to weigh in on these changes... I know how frustrating it is to have your work "ripped apart", however unintentionally, from so many people, from so many angles... You're doing a great job and I for one really appreciate it...
I 2nd that too! I know it can be a pain to deal with "fringe" opinions but that you guys actively ask for them and then work hard to resolve them into something coherent is one of my favorite things about smugmug. Yeah, all the customization options, and the unlimited storage, and the cool CSS and JS tricks bring a tear to this engineer's eye - but what really makes a product shine are the people behind it. So thanks.
BTW, after reading this thread I can't help but remember this exchange from the Simpson's:
Man: How many of you kids would like Itchy & Scratchy to deal with
real-life problems, like the ones you face every day? Kids:I]clamoring[/I Oh, yeah! I would! Great idea! Yeah, that's it! Man: And who would like to see them do just the opposite -- getting
into far-out situations involving robots and magic powers? Kids:I]clamoring[/I Me! Yeah! Oh, cool! Yeah, that's what I want! Man: So, you want a realistic, down-to-earth show... that's
completely off-the-wall and swarming with magic robots? Kids:I]all agreeing, quieter this time[/I That's right. Oh yeah,
good. Milhouse: And also, you should win things by watching.
Of course the funny thing is with all the themes and customization options you've pretty much done this (and with referrals you've even made Milhouse happy).
got both and it lead to a SM homepage.... I just want to look at the site already there. I do not have the time to create my own yet... is that possible...
got both and it lead to a SM homepage.... I just want to look at the site already there. I do not have the time to create my own yet... is that possible...
Yes, of course
You have to enter the login and password to the beta site.
# The login to the beta site: squeaky
# If you read everything above (on the wiki page), you already have the password.
Yes, of course
You have to enter the login and password to the beta site.
# The login to the beta site: squeaky
# If you read everything above (on the wiki page), you already have the password.
Anthony, think about it. ...
I got thru the 1st log in... thanks...
but what do I do at the SM homepage?
Sorry... now that I'm "in" I CAN click your link and it goes thru... thanks...how do I get to see what others are doing there?
I got thru the 1st log in... thanks...
but what do I do at the SM homepage?
Sorry... now that I'm "in" I CAN click your link and it goes thru... thanks...how do I get to see what others are doing there?
use search?
use communities?
use keywords?
use popular?
I got thru the 1st log in... thanks...
but what do I do at the SM homepage?
Sorry... now that I'm "in" I CAN click your link and it goes thru... thanks...how do I get to see what others are doing there?
think of beta.smugmug.net just like the normal smugmug domain. It consists of multiple sites...
Comments
85mm f/1.8, 17-50 + 28-75m f/2.8 lenses
iMac 24" 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Extreme, 4Gb RAM, OSX 10.5.7
http://encosion.com/ | http://encosion.smugmug.com/
I love the flyouts. I do. But with nothing there to indicate that there is something there....people could miss it. When I'm in a gallery, my mouse normally does not go over to the larger images, the pointer sticks around the thumbnail area.
I suggested a 'flap' before. Understandable that someone mentioned that they didn't like a flap on the image - agreed. Why not a flap beside the image? Kinda like those cardboard/paper folders you might use where the tab is off to the side?
The tab wouldn't/shouldn't be ON the folder, but next to it like those tab folders. It's out of the way, but it's a reminder to new visitors that - hey: there is some extra for me to do. Place pointer on the tab, then the fly out - well: flys out! Or have it at the bottom of the image.
Just a thought.
(lately, I've been thinking how great SM has being at bringing us a nice update, and we are tearing it apart! I for one love the idea, and the flyout looks really professional - and of course I love the speed that the larger images appear: things that make not only SM look better, but US as well as people judge us from what our sites look like and how well they work or don't work: not just the photos they see.)
Derek
What did Cinderella say when she left the photo shop? "One day my prints will come."
keep the suggestions coming, we'll definitely discuss them.
I Reject Your Reality And Substitute My Own - Adam Savage
seems like we have some very cool capabilities now, but I hope the features are added very carefully, not just cus it's cool. The flyout are ok, but make it optional. I don't think they should replace the old ways to select a feature. just like most windows programs, there can be several ways to select a function (via the Menu, the tool bar, right-clicking, Keyboard shortcuts, etc.) Just because you implement a cool fly out, don't take away the good old fashioned links or buttons...
I like the effort being made regarding the exif display, but I agree with previous poster about "docking"... a new window to show the exif is in the way, I gotta move it around trying to find somewhere out of the way to put it... I'd rather just have the exif show either below, or to the side (like critique) of the image (optionally of course).
The flyouts might be a cool way to add features to the Journal where you are trying to keep out the clutter there... (of course, any new features on the journal would be appreciated since that is all I use)
nice work otherwise, some very interesting functionality not typically seen from within a browser!
As someone who also has a Zenfolio account simply moving the exif pallette over the thumbnails while browsing works somewhat similar to the way Zen does it. Zen has tabs to switch between thumbnail and information mode.
I Reject Your Reality And Substitute My Own - Adam Savage
What did Cinderella say when she left the photo shop? "One day my prints will come."
First and foremost - Excellent job guys, glad to see the many new features on the way and all the hard work. Best of all I love the concept of a beta to discuss. Most of this is really cool - I'm talking about the fast loading and clean look. Major kudos!!!
A few questions:
1) This "phase 2" you speak of, is that phase 2 of a beta or are you going to go live with "phase 1" before implementing phase 2?
2) Order of magnitude estimate for phase 2 after phase 1 is polished (days, weeks, months, a year...)?
3) I noticed lots of divs on the EXIF flyout so it looks pretty customizable, is it possible to change its starting opening location to not be smack dab over the photo? Could I make it two columns to fit someplace better? Again, not asking the sitewide default to change, but will this be possible with CSS?
4) Same question for the image size flyout.
5) Are there any hints as to what types of customization is likely to break in phase 2? I was just starting up customization so I might just pause. I'd like to try things that are less likely to break in the future if possible though.
A strong comment:
I'm very concerned about the lack of default viewing size option, the response has been "phase 2" but I don't think anything should go live without it. Otherwise users are forced to go into lightbox.
The lightbox, while flashy and cool looking, is the most retarded UI concept you guys ever came up with. Parallel navigation methods is just plain stupid. (I especially love the way you made it transparent by default so that the user can see the useful navigation system they'd rather be using taunting them from behind). It is the dumb blonde of the website - pretty to look at but you'd never want to marry her. Well, if you go live with this as it is I'm going to have a shotgun wedding with her and I won't be happy about it.
So anyway, the point is from my perspective going to "phase 1" is a major downgrade of the smugmug style unless this is rectified. I want large images and not in the moronic lightbox thing. I currently use the smugmug style just about everywhere so it'd be painful. What would be a good option would be to have a "smugmug classic" or "smugmug fogey" or whatever you want to call it style that people could switch to while they wait for the full fledged phase 2 goodness.
Other (more positive) comments:
And now that I'm done bashing the lightbox (it deserves it) I've got to highlight again that I think on the whole this new interface is *amazing* on the whole. A major improvement. Can't wait to play more with it and can't wait to see what else you've got up your sleave.
I'm just as torn as everyone else about all the flyouts. They are a little non-intuative - but I love the clean look too!
I think taking over the up down arrows is likely to really PO a lot of users, I'd give that the heave-ho. Personally not a strong point with me, but stealing keys people are already used to tends to be a bad thing.
I have to play with this more, and I'm going to try some customizing on it too.
Again, MAJOR COOL! (but please give me an out for large without lightbox)
Ken
useLightbox = false;
is used, when I clicked on the Large link, FF popup blocker blocked the window...SM then proceeded to endlessly attempt to open the popup window.
SmugMug API Developer
My Photos
What did Cinderella say when she left the photo shop? "One day my prints will come."
85mm f/1.8, 17-50 + 28-75m f/2.8 lenses
iMac 24" 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Extreme, 4Gb RAM, OSX 10.5.7
http://encosion.com/ | http://encosion.smugmug.com/
I'm sure you know this, but you will never please everyone... However, I think you've done the right thing with going "Open Beta" and you're going to be much closer to pleasing the majority than if you hadn't... Even if things don't change a helluva lot before it goes live, this thread will have made people realise just how hard it is trying to come up with an interface that ticks all the boxes - especially when the boxes contradict each other!
My respect for SmugMug has shifted into a higher gear over the last few days... Thank you!
85mm f/1.8, 17-50 + 28-75m f/2.8 lenses
iMac 24" 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Extreme, 4Gb RAM, OSX 10.5.7
http://encosion.com/ | http://encosion.smugmug.com/
Swim for Them | WellmanHouse.net | AlbumFetcher | SmugShowBuilder
BTW, after reading this thread I can't help but remember this exchange from the Simpson's:
Man: How many of you kids would like Itchy & Scratchy to deal with
real-life problems, like the ones you face every day?
Kids: I]clamoring[/I Oh, yeah! I would! Great idea! Yeah, that's it!
Man: And who would like to see them do just the opposite -- getting
into far-out situations involving robots and magic powers?
Kids: I]clamoring[/I Me! Yeah! Oh, cool! Yeah, that's what I want!
Man: So, you want a realistic, down-to-earth show... that's
completely off-the-wall and swarming with magic robots?
Kids: I]all agreeing, quieter this time[/I That's right. Oh yeah,
good.
Milhouse: And also, you should win things by watching.
Of course the funny thing is with all the themes and customization options you've pretty much done this (and with referrals you've even made Milhouse happy).
Ken
SmugMug API Developer
My Photos
did u get the username as well ?
it's in a different part of the wiki
SmugMug API Developer
My Photos
You have to enter the login and password to the beta site.
# The login to the beta site: squeaky
# If you read everything above (on the wiki page), you already have the password.
Anthony, think about it. ...
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
but what do I do at the SM homepage?
Sorry... now that I'm "in" I CAN click your link and it goes thru... thanks...how do I get to see what others are doing there?
use communities?
use keywords?
use popular?
Failing that, you can go to ajw.beta.smugmug.net
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
think of beta.smugmug.net just like the normal smugmug domain. It consists of multiple sites...
eg. http://devbobo.beta.smugmug.net/
If you to play around for yourself, sign up for an account just like you would in smugmug normally.
SmugMug API Developer
My Photos
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Just don't enter any credit card details, so you won't run into any problems.
If the account expires, just get a new one.
As far as what Smugmug's policy will be on beta accounts, I am in the dark as you are.
Cheers,
David
SmugMug API Developer
My Photos
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops