The Live View LCD doesn't do anything for me, just something to go wrong. I can just see someone holding thier camera at arms length looking at the LCD to shoot..... An SLR with live view....not for me.
But I can't wait till it comes out.....so I can get a deal on a 1D MKIIn!
I just finished wiping the drool from my chin. Why does $4k for a camera body suddenly seem like a good deal?
Two years ago I was dreaming of 20D...
Now I have two 30D-s and for some reason the idea of getting Mark III by this summer does not seem to be a utopical one ...
Man, I like my hobby/sidebiz!:ivar
My read is that it is a little bit of each. My impression is that most digital cameras fit the dynamic range of the sensor (which is usually more than 8 bits) into 8 bits by compressing the shadow detail. This is why you often see recommendations to expose to the right of the histogram: it means less compression.
The Mark III has 14 bits coming from the sensor so the camera is compressing 6 bits of dynamic range at the dark end. What the new mode may be doing is shifting some of the dynamic range off the top end and compressing the highlights as well. This is roughly exquivalent to boosting the exposure in ACR/Lightroom and using highlight recovery. Potentially having compression at both ends will give the Mark III a much more "film-like" response curve. In practice it means that the highlights blow out more gracefully rather than the cliff of most DSLRs.
-Upgrade of the LCD viewfinder. Of course, LiveLCD is kind of a novelty but still has some cool practical use)
Remember that this is a Wildlife/Sports camera. Think of the superbowl or other big sporting event where at the end you see all the photogs surounding the coaches or MVPs and the photogs are holding their cameras up in the air hoping they get someone in the frame. That is a perfect example of what this would be useful for.
Things I am very bummed about with this announcement (or lack thereof)
-1DMII @10.1 megapixel. Dont get me wrong, I think its great to see an upgrade but I really wanted a unified 1D series full-frame (with an optional crop factor and quality level)
Again, this is a Wildlife/Sports camera. The APS-H sensor is a plus in those fields. Full Frame just makes your lens that much shorter, if you really desire FF than you'll just have to wait for the 1DS MrkIII.
Live view
I think they shoud have made the LCD screen tiltable like the Oly 330. It would make doing low down macros and portraits with a tripod easier.
It's still an awesome sounding camera.
Not in my budget though:cry
My read is that it is a little bit of each. My impression is that most digital cameras fit the dynamic range of the sensor (which is usually more than 8 bits) into 8 bits by compressing the shadow detail. This is why you often see recommendations to expose to the right of the histogram: it means less compression.
The Mark III has 14 bits coming from the sensor so the camera is compressing 6 bits of dynamic range at the dark end. What the new mode may be doing is shifting some of the dynamic range off the top end and compressing the highlights as well. This is roughly exquivalent to boosting the exposure in ACR/Lightroom and using highlight recovery. Potentially having compression at both ends will give the Mark III a much more "film-like" response curve. In practice it means that the highlights blow out more gracefully rather than the cliff of most DSLRs.
I'm lost here--granted I have not read the white paper. Is this feature only applicable to JPEG mode since you're talking about 8-bit compression? How does this apply to 16-bit RAW files?
Remember that this is a Wildlife/Sports camera. Think of the superbowl or other big sporting event where at the end you see all the photogs surounding the coaches or MVPs and the photogs are holding their cameras up in the air hoping they get someone in the frame. That is a perfect example of what this would be useful for.
Again, this is a Wildlife/Sports camera. The APS-H sensor is a plus in those fields. Full Frame just makes your lens that much shorter, if you really desire FF than you'll just have to wait for the 1DS MrkIII.
No, you read it wrong.
I want the 1D series to unify, creating a full-frame/1.3x crop adjustable
Professional Ancient Smugmug Shutter Geek
Master Of Sushi Noms
Amateur CSS Dork
-10 frames per second! That's almost one half of a live movie grab!(24fps)
-1DMII @10.1 megapixel. Dont get me wrong, I think its great to see an upgrade but I really wanted a unified 1D series full-frame (with an optional crop factor and quality level)
My understanding is that full frame sensors require a two pass process to extract all the data which slows the frame rate down. Until there is significant shift in sensor technology, Canon will be making fast APS-H and slower full frame bodies. While the resolution for the 1D line is likely going to be kept to something sane so it doesn't chew up memory cards too quickly at those blistering speeds, expect the 1Ds line to push resolution to the limit.
On a side note, various things I have read recently have made me think that Canon may come out with yet another mount specifically targeted at APS-H (similar to the EF-S lenses but with L-style construction). I am a little surprised that wasn't part of the 1DIII announcement.
Maybe Patch29 can talk about Canon's history when it comes to delivery after announcement.
Time to enter the way back machine.
1Ds announced 9/24/02, purchased the first one from my retailer in Atlanta about sixty days later in November.
1DmkII announced 1/29/04, not the earliest buyer, but I had two in my possession by mid-May.
Sometimes they are very fast, sometimes they are not. I can believe April for a delivery date. If I can get a fair price for my 1DmkII cameras, I could see upgrading both bodies, a spare battery or two, two 580EXII flashes, two CPE4 battery packs (hopefully I can sell the 550EX's and CPE2's and finally upgrade the 16-35 to the new one, this could turn out to be another expensive year. :yikes
I'm lost here--granted I have not read the white paper. Is this feature only applicable to JPEG mode since you're talking about 8-bit compression? How does this apply to 16-bit RAW files?
I am guessing about this feature. I don't know anything.
However, if my theory is right, setting this would cause your RAW files to exposed, say, a stop darker to leave extra headroom for the whites. Some extra metadata would be added to the RAW file to indicate this. Then DPP (or your favorite RAW converter) would then compensate by pumping up the brightness to bring 18% grey back to where it should be. Normally the camera clips about +3 stops from middle grey. In this mode you would have 4 stops available above middle gray. As a first pass I would bring middle grey and +1 back to where they should be and the roll off the curve to compress +2, +3 and +4 into the top two stops of the 8 bit range.
When shooting bright scenes with my 5D I will often deliberately underexposed to leave some extra headroom for the highlights. Then I'll adjust the curve in ACR to bring the mid tones up to proper exposure. I do this so I don't blow out the highlights. What I am guessing is that Canon is building this same process directly into the camera. Wedding photographers often face scenes with lots of shiny white cloth which can easily blow out if properly normally exposed. When you are shooting 1000s of pictures in a day having the camera help you out with that part of the workflow will be a substantial boon.
whats the APS-H size sensor equivalent to in already existing canon bodies?
Canon's 1D series has always been a APS-H (i.e. 1.3X crop factor). My 1D Mark II is one, for example. So was the Mark II-N. And I believe the original 1D was as well.
I saw the Canon white paper talking about this sensor being the largest size possible to process in one pass with existing semiconductor technology. Not exactly sure what that meant, and how a full-frame sensor must be fabricated differently. But I'm guessing there must be some limitation with doing a high-speed full frame sensor. Notice none of Canon's full-frame cameras come close to 8 frames per second, let alone 10 fps.
I'm lost here--granted I have not read the white paper. Is this feature only applicable to JPEG mode since you're talking about 8-bit compression? How does this apply to 16-bit RAW files?
I'm guessing too...but what I think I understand is that most cameras are 12 bits from the sensor poured into a 16-bit raw file format, while this new camera is 14 bits from the sensor into a 16-bit raw file format.
Seen another way:
JPEG = 12-bit data to 8-bit file
RAW (typically) = 12-bit data to 16-bit file
RAW (1DMkIII) = 14-bit data to 16-bit file
I thought that was called the crop tool in PS? I never really saw the point having that in camera.
The high-end cameras produce so many megapixels that some jobs don't actually need them all, like Web-only or newsprint-only jobs. The feature to crop in camera means you only store the megapixels you actually think you're ever going to use for that assignment. That means your card and hard drive space is used more efficiently. You get to store more pictures.
The high-end cameras produce so many megapixels that some jobs don't actually need them all, like Web-only or newsprint-only jobs. The feature to crop in camera means you only store the megapixels you actually think you're ever going to use for that assignment. That means your card and hard drive space is used more efficiently. You get to store more pictures.
I thought that is what sRAW was for? Plus from what I have seen the only people using HSC are wildlife shooters and that is to get your subject larger in the frame. I have never heard someone using it to conserve storage space.
My Equipment: Canon EOS 5D w/ battery grip Backup Canon EOS 30D | Canon 28 f/1.8 | Canon 24 f/1.4L Canon 50mm f/1.4 | Sigma 50mm f/2.8 EX DI Macro | Canon 70-200 F/2.8 L | Canon 580 EX II Flash and Canon 550 EX Flash Apple MacBook Pro with dual 24" monitors
Domke F-802 bag and a Shootsac by Jessica Claire
Infiniti QX4
Interesting, Ziggy. I didn't read that as increased dynamic range. I read it as a gimmick to preserve highlights by changing the exposure settings.
But then again, I'm not at all technical.
I think Canon probably did improve the dynamic range of the chip through reduced noise and reduced clipping of the highlights.
The reduced noise appears to be the result of better on-chip noise control as well as better sampling provided by the improved A/D converter.
The reduced clipping appears to be the result of improved statistical algorithms in the digital processing units (Digic III), again partially influenced by the improved A/D converter. (More sample value gradations means better statistical predictions.)
It would be a good guess that actual measurable improvement is less than 1 stop, otherwise Canon Marketing would be all over it.
BTW, some medium format digital backs have 16-bit A/D converters and processors now! I have my fingers crossed for the near future of 35mm format (and APS-C/H) dSLRs.
I think Canon probably did improve the dynamic range of the chip through reduced noise and reduced clipping of the highlights.
...
It would be a good guess that actual measurable improvement is less than 1 stop, otherwise Canon Marketing would be all over it.
I guess we are just going to have to get some of these and try them out, eh? It's a hard job but somebody has to do it..
The high-end cameras produce so many megapixels that some jobs don't actually need them all, like Web-only or newsprint-only jobs. The feature to crop in camera means you only store the megapixels you actually think you're ever going to use for that assignment. That means your card and hard drive space is used more efficiently. You get to store more pictures.
That's not what Nikon's high speed crop mode was for, though. If you only need so many megapixels for an assignment then you choose a smaller JPG to record the images in. But in that case you're still using the entire sensor (ie. its not cropped). What Pezpix was getting at was the Nikon D2H, I believe, which offers a sports mode that uses only a center crop of the image. This has a few benefits though I always thought it was gimmicky. One, you are reading fewer pixels off the sensor, so the sensor can be read more quickly, thus ready for the next shot sooner. And this did increase the rapid-fire rate of that camera. It also increases the apparant magnification of the lens, good for sports.
Notice that medium-JPG or small-JPG do not attain any of those goals. They still read all the sensor data, still use all the sensor, there is no crop-factor, etc.
And yes, you could always setup a Photoshop action to crop the center of all your images for you.
Jeff Hirsch at FotoCare will be happy to put you on his waiting list. You'll get the camera as soon as anyone does and for this camera anyway you won't pay any less at B&H &etc until it's been shipping for a few months. And you get to deal with Jeff, which is always a pleasure (though sometimes an expensive one.)
I called B&H this morning to put my order in for one, they told me there is no confirmation to them yet on a release date or a price that they B&H will be selling the camera for.
I was told to call back in March, I was also told that there would be no advanced orders, 1st come, 1st served.
I'm hoping that this camera will be available for my trip to Katmai in July,What a great addition to an already phenominal trip this would be.
My Equipment: Canon EOS 5D w/ battery grip Backup Canon EOS 30D | Canon 28 f/1.8 | Canon 24 f/1.4L Canon 50mm f/1.4 | Sigma 50mm f/2.8 EX DI Macro | Canon 70-200 F/2.8 L | Canon 580 EX II Flash and Canon 550 EX Flash Apple MacBook Pro with dual 24" monitors
Domke F-802 bag and a Shootsac by Jessica Claire
Infiniti QX4
Comments
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
time to find a buyer for one of the kidneys.
whats the APS-H size sensor equivalent to in already existing canon bodies?
lots of cool upgrades coming up, i cant even take this all in right now.
dont mind me when i feint.
But I can't wait till it comes out.....so I can get a deal on a 1D MKIIn!
Haha.. thats for sure. I'm still aiming for a full-size sensor slr like the 5D. Waiting for those puppies to go down in price. Crossing those fingers!
Two years ago I was dreaming of 20D...
Now I have two 30D-s and for some reason the idea of getting Mark III by this summer does not seem to be a utopical one ...
Man, I like my hobby/sidebiz!:ivar
Thanks Liquid.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
Again, this is a Wildlife/Sports camera. The APS-H sensor is a plus in those fields. Full Frame just makes your lens that much shorter, if you really desire FF than you'll just have to wait for the 1DS MrkIII.
SmugMug Technical Account Manager
Travel = good. Woo, shooting!
nickwphoto
SmugMug Technical Account Manager
Travel = good. Woo, shooting!
nickwphoto
I think they shoud have made the LCD screen tiltable like the Oly 330. It would make doing low down macros and portraits with a tripod easier.
It's still an awesome sounding camera.
Not in my budget though:cry
www.ackersphotography.com
dak.smugmug.com
No, you read it wrong.
I want the 1D series to unify, creating a full-frame/1.3x crop adjustable
Master Of Sushi Noms
Amateur CSS Dork
SmugMug Technical Account Manager
Travel = good. Woo, shooting!
nickwphoto
My understanding is that full frame sensors require a two pass process to extract all the data which slows the frame rate down. Until there is significant shift in sensor technology, Canon will be making fast APS-H and slower full frame bodies. While the resolution for the 1D line is likely going to be kept to something sane so it doesn't chew up memory cards too quickly at those blistering speeds, expect the 1Ds line to push resolution to the limit.
On a side note, various things I have read recently have made me think that Canon may come out with yet another mount specifically targeted at APS-H (similar to the EF-S lenses but with L-style construction). I am a little surprised that wasn't part of the 1DIII announcement.
Time to enter the way back machine.
1Ds announced 9/24/02, purchased the first one from my retailer in Atlanta about sixty days later in November.
1DmkII announced 1/29/04, not the earliest buyer, but I had two in my possession by mid-May.
Sometimes they are very fast, sometimes they are not. I can believe April for a delivery date. If I can get a fair price for my 1DmkII cameras, I could see upgrading both bodies, a spare battery or two, two 580EXII flashes, two CPE4 battery packs (hopefully I can sell the 550EX's and CPE2's and finally upgrade the 16-35 to the new one, this could turn out to be another expensive year.
I am guessing about this feature. I don't know anything.
However, if my theory is right, setting this would cause your RAW files to exposed, say, a stop darker to leave extra headroom for the whites. Some extra metadata would be added to the RAW file to indicate this. Then DPP (or your favorite RAW converter) would then compensate by pumping up the brightness to bring 18% grey back to where it should be. Normally the camera clips about +3 stops from middle grey. In this mode you would have 4 stops available above middle gray. As a first pass I would bring middle grey and +1 back to where they should be and the roll off the curve to compress +2, +3 and +4 into the top two stops of the 8 bit range.
When shooting bright scenes with my 5D I will often deliberately underexposed to leave some extra headroom for the highlights. Then I'll adjust the curve in ACR to bring the mid tones up to proper exposure. I do this so I don't blow out the highlights. What I am guessing is that Canon is building this same process directly into the camera. Wedding photographers often face scenes with lots of shiny white cloth which can easily blow out if properly normally exposed. When you are shooting 1000s of pictures in a day having the camera help you out with that part of the workflow will be a substantial boon.
That's what Schedule K or Schedule C is for. Write it off:-)
I saw the Canon white paper talking about this sensor being the largest size possible to process in one pass with existing semiconductor technology. Not exactly sure what that meant, and how a full-frame sensor must be fabricated differently. But I'm guessing there must be some limitation with doing a high-speed full frame sensor. Notice none of Canon's full-frame cameras come close to 8 frames per second, let alone 10 fps.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
I'm guessing too...but what I think I understand is that most cameras are 12 bits from the sensor poured into a 16-bit raw file format, while this new camera is 14 bits from the sensor into a 16-bit raw file format.
Seen another way:
JPEG = 12-bit data to 8-bit file
RAW (typically) = 12-bit data to 16-bit file
RAW (1DMkIII) = 14-bit data to 16-bit file
The high-end cameras produce so many megapixels that some jobs don't actually need them all, like Web-only or newsprint-only jobs. The feature to crop in camera means you only store the megapixels you actually think you're ever going to use for that assignment. That means your card and hard drive space is used more efficiently. You get to store more pictures.
SmugMug Technical Account Manager
Travel = good. Woo, shooting!
nickwphoto
or both arms? are you left handed, cause I hear right arms are in demand....
www.rossfrazier.com/blog
My Equipment:
Canon EOS 5D w/ battery grip
Backup Canon EOS 30D | Canon 28 f/1.8 | Canon 24 f/1.4L Canon 50mm f/1.4 | Sigma 50mm f/2.8 EX DI Macro | Canon 70-200 F/2.8 L | Canon 580 EX II Flash and Canon 550 EX Flash
Apple MacBook Pro with dual 24" monitors
Domke F-802 bag and a Shootsac by Jessica Claire
Infiniti QX4
SmugMug Technical Account Manager
Travel = good. Woo, shooting!
nickwphoto
I think Canon probably did improve the dynamic range of the chip through reduced noise and reduced clipping of the highlights.
The reduced noise appears to be the result of better on-chip noise control as well as better sampling provided by the improved A/D converter.
The reduced clipping appears to be the result of improved statistical algorithms in the digital processing units (Digic III), again partially influenced by the improved A/D converter. (More sample value gradations means better statistical predictions.)
It would be a good guess that actual measurable improvement is less than 1 stop, otherwise Canon Marketing would be all over it.
BTW, some medium format digital backs have 16-bit A/D converters and processors now! I have my fingers crossed for the near future of 35mm format (and APS-C/H) dSLRs.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
I guess we are just going to have to get some of these and try them out, eh? It's a hard job but somebody has to do it..
Notice that medium-JPG or small-JPG do not attain any of those goals. They still read all the sensor data, still use all the sensor, there is no crop-factor, etc.
And yes, you could always setup a Photoshop action to crop the center of all your images for you.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
It's the D2X and D2Xs:
http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=2&productNr=25414
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d2x.htm
http://www.outbackphoto.com/reviews/equipment/nikon_d2x/Nikon_d2x_review.html#20051009
http://www.digitalreview.ca/cams/NikonD2X_intro.shtml
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6459-7204
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_D2X
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
nice...haha.
www.rossfrazier.com/blog
My Equipment:
Canon EOS 5D w/ battery grip
Backup Canon EOS 30D | Canon 28 f/1.8 | Canon 24 f/1.4L Canon 50mm f/1.4 | Sigma 50mm f/2.8 EX DI Macro | Canon 70-200 F/2.8 L | Canon 580 EX II Flash and Canon 550 EX Flash
Apple MacBook Pro with dual 24" monitors
Domke F-802 bag and a Shootsac by Jessica Claire
Infiniti QX4
Either I will add a 2nd 1D2N, or I will get the 3, but either way the 20D is going to be on the for sale block once I get close to the funds!
Perfect Pix
Will the 1D Mark III still have enough room inside for dual storage slots? SD & CF cards?