I made my point at the FM thread already. But ill reiterate here.
I think they're going to lose a lot of viewers once they start charging sellers. Not all, but a good amount. Not everyone sells lg amounts of gear and those people will probably rather head over to diff board such as this one to sell to dodge the sellers fees.
I just think that a forum is given value by the members who are on it. FM states that the money will go to aiding against fraudulent sellers, I dont think $5 or $45 will make a lg diff. Plus, theres already a lot of good honest sellers there that you can make a good assumption from searching previous threads that you shouldn't need to charge a fee to make them more 'legit'.
Also, another reason for the fee was for the upload feature. Who honestly wants to pay money for a slow server to host certain fotos and be limited to a certain amount of space to be uploaded. For that use, Smugmug has yearly accounts for that same price and you can upload a jackload of images plus host them professionally online with an almost limitless amont of bandwidth (considering they are fotos). That would be a much better way to spend your money.
I would honestly gladly donate $20 anually to join that site if it would help speed up the site. But I dont see why FM just doesnt implement a way to show banner ads on his site. Shoot, I dont mind looking at banner ads as long as the service is great. Thats what we do now with television.
But like I said, if he does implement it, their #s of ads will go down. At least half of the sellers arent members there and if they dont sell enough they wont find paying an annual fee worthwhile. Especially if theres other sites such as Dgrin who offers this thing for FREE.
We all gotta' make a profit, but I think theres better ways to do it, especially on a forum.
I agree that they will lose a quite a few PPL.
What a drag.....90% of my equipment came from there and I NEVER had any troubles with sellers or buyers.
All I can say is this is VERY disapointing news!!! :cry
******AHHHHHHH after reading His posting***********
If you are not a subscriber, you may still read, reply and send a PM or Email to Items for Sale, however, you will NOT have the privilege to post a new item. With the Image Upload service, you may also upload pictures of the item(s) for sale to display in your message. And, you can post your photography on any of our other boards as well, including Weekly/Monthly assignments, etc…
From what I understand this will not affect the common "Joe Buyer" like me?
From what I understand this will not affect the common "Joe Buyer" like me?
It won't affect that fact that you can buy, but it will affect the types of people posting items for sale. It will be harder to find the really good deals, and you will see a lot more of the type where people are selling brand new equipment for almost new cost.
Fred Miranda has decided to turn his buy and sell board into a money making venture......you now have to be a photo upload subscriber on his site to post items for sale. $45 per year. You can still view the board and PM sellers - but you cannot sell anything.
I could see buy and sell boards on other forums, such as this one, picking up some steam in the wake of this decision over on FM.
As slow as fredmiranda.com is I wouldn't pay one cent. Sometimes that site takes forever to load.
Sad news
I got pretty much all my stuff from FM, and I sold there a lot, too.
Traffic over there was mindboggling. You could find pretty much anything you want within days, if not hours. So was with selling if the price was right.
Andy/Erik, can we somehow officially let the FM BS crowd know that Dgrin's Flea Market is just around the corner? Possibly with Fred's blessing:-)? Just an idea..
I got pretty much all my stuff from FM, and I sold there a lot, too.
Traffic over there was mindboggling. You could find pretty much anything you want within days, if not hours. So was with selling if the price was right.
Andy/Erik, can we somehow officially let the FM BS crowd know that Dgrin's Flea Market is just around the corner? Possibly with Fred's blessing:-)? Just an idea..
Regardless of your feelings about FM, everything changes over time. FM is at a stage where something need to be done. There is no doubt that many people like FM not only because of the B&S forum but the other forums as well. I know I for one learned a lot from many good people. The integrity and class of many on FM is simply a nice atmosphere and a nice place to hang out.
These are not necessarily the same people who are complaining about the $45 "TO SELL" fee. Fred is not a stupid man I think he is simply regrouping and if a bunch of people with 5 posts cannot sell their gear for free I don't think he's going to loose a lot of sleep over it.
If the overall effect of this is to spread the B&S around a little more everything will be fine in a month or two. Many of us will find a new way to buy and sell. If the forum here ends up getting more traffic that will probably be a good thing for dgrin and Smugmug.
______________________________________________________________
1D MarkIII, 16-35L, 28-70L, 70-200f2.8L, 50 f1.4, 300/f2.8L 1.4xL, 2XIIL (2)580EX, supporting cast of other stuff
Well I must say this is not the first post I wanted to make...
I think you guys have some great points and a wonderful site that I have been watching for awhile. However, I think you need to realize that as a forum grows it can get out of control. Your board is great, kind of like FM a few years ago but I think everyone here would start to dislike this flea market if it started to get out of control.
Please keep in mind that many of us over on FM have bought and sold over 20k worth of stuff without ever having a problem. In fact there have not been many problems in the over 35,000 camera gear transactions on that site.
Overall though Fred does not care about the B/S board that much and the wonderfull moderators over here do...which is why I signed up here some time ago.
Please keep in mind that many of us over on FM have bought and sold over 20k worth of stuff without ever having a problem. In fact there have not been many problems in the over 35,000 camera gear transactions on that site.
And I'm one of those guys, too Many, many great transactions.
Please keep in mind that many of us over on FM have bought and sold over 20k worth of stuff without ever having a problem. In fact there have not been many problems in the over 35,000 camera gear transactions on that site.
I'd say I bought the majority of my gear from FM sellers.
That's why I'm sad to see it change: it benefitted me a great deal.
But as you say, I got the distinct impression that FM didn't welcome the forum's size and level of aggravation.
However, I think you need to realize that as a forum grows it can get out of control. Your board is great, kind of like FM a few years ago but I think everyone here would start to dislike this flea market if it started to get out of control.
Indeed, a danger of growth.
Not sure how the Buy/Sell got out of control, though. Was there a recent increase in ripoffs? Or are you referring to the explosion in traffic?
I will say that over the last year many people got very greedy when there item wasn't on page one of the B&S. They used all kinds of self bumping tactics and were kind of rude to others. This in turn started everyone doing it. Scott the former Moderator attempted to bring in some control but I think he burnt out dealing with all the selfish iodits
______________________________________________________________
1D MarkIII, 16-35L, 28-70L, 70-200f2.8L, 50 f1.4, 300/f2.8L 1.4xL, 2XIIL (2)580EX, supporting cast of other stuff
Overall though Fred does not care about the B/S board that much and the wonderfull moderators over here do...which is why I signed up here some time ago.
I do believe I've just been accused of being "caring!"
Not sure how the Buy/Sell got out of control, though. Was there a recent increase in ripoffs? Or are you referring to the explosion in traffic?
As dhlewis said the problem was the number of posters bumping their posts. Some people would make 3-4 different threads (instead of combining the items into one thread) and bump them 3-6 times a day to keep them on the top two or three pages. They would also ask waaay too much IMO and need to bump them like this for a week or more. When you add this to computer parts for sale, etc, etc it was very hard to keep your item in the top 6 pages and most buyers do not look past that point.
I will say that over the last year many people got very greedy when there item wasn't on page one of the B&S. They used all kinds of self bumping tactics and were kind of rude to others. This in turn started everyone doing it. Scott the former Moderator attempted to bring in some control but I think he burnt out dealing with all the selfish iodits
I sold one lens there and got tired of the constant mod edits and wrist-slaps that came from having my every move rated, despite reading the lengthy forum rules. No modifying or adding a 2nd post within 24 hours? No changing the subject to reflect a sold item? Too many rules. No wonder Scott bailed—I certainly did.
As dhlewis said the problem was the number of posters bumping their posts. Some people would make 3-4 different threads (instead of combining the items into one thread) and bump them 3-6 times a day to keep them on the top two or three pages. They would also ask waaay too much IMO and need to bump them like this for a week or more. When you add this to computer parts for sale, etc, etc it was very hard to keep your item in the top 6 pages and most buyers do not look past that point.
Ah. I haven't been there in several weeks, missed that activity.
I liked how things got buried. Made it easier to find the bargains.
Ah. I haven't been there in several weeks, missed that activity.
I liked how things got buried. Made it easier to find the bargains.
I agree.
I looked at the first couple of pages, then went to the last page and worked my way forward.
The bargains are on the later pages, just before it disappears.
I just wanted to say "hello" to you all, and in particular to bauerman for referring me to this site. I am larrytucaz from Fred Miranda (since 10-2004), going by larrytxeast here (the userid I've used since moving from Tucson, AZ last year). Just here to try this site out & see how it goes.
I didn't sell much at FM, did much more buying than selling. I am worried that many "killer deals," like getting a Canon 300D w/18-55m for only $275, will no longer show up there. So, having seen bauerman's thread at FM mentioning this site, I'm trying it out.
Hello to all of you again. I hope this site turns out to be a good one, it's nice to know the alternatives out there.
Larry,
Welcome to Dgrin!
I vouch you will like it here - very friendly atmosphere, very helpful crowd. Not that many snobs, that's for sure, and absolute ZERO amount of trolls.
Cheers!
FM user since Feb 2005, DPReview user since Feb 2000
I just wanted to say "hello" to you all, and in particular to bauerman for referring me to this site. I am larrytucaz from Fred Miranda (since 10-2004), going by larrytxeast here (the userid I've used since moving from Tucson, AZ last year). Just here to try this site out & see how it goes.
I didn't sell much at FM, did much more buying than selling. I am worried that many "killer deals," like getting a Canon 300D w/18-55m for only $275, will no longer show up there. So, having seen bauerman's thread at FM mentioning this site, I'm trying it out.
Hello to all of you again. I hope this site turns out to be a good one, it's nice to know the alternatives out there.
WELCOME!
I'm also a FM member Registered: Oct 14, 2005. One of the reasons I signed was it was THE place to get great deals on used stuff.
No worries you've come to a great place! More of a learning and sharing place.....but has a FS area that will probably gain traffic now.(FREE TOO) DG was my 1st stop in my online Photog adventures and there are a lotta great PPL here!!
I just wanted to say "hello" to you all, and in particular to bauerman for referring me to this site. I am larrytucaz from Fred Miranda (since 10-2004), going by larrytxeast here (the userid I've used since moving from Tucson, AZ last year). Just here to try this site out & see how it goes.
I didn't sell much at FM, did much more buying than selling. I am worried that many "killer deals," like getting a Canon 300D w/18-55m for only $275, will no longer show up there. So, having seen bauerman's thread at FM mentioning this site, I'm trying it out.
Hello to all of you again. I hope this site turns out to be a good one, it's nice to know the alternatives out there.
Hi Larry.
We try hard to be friendly here, it's a nice and rapidly growing group.
Other than FM and dgrin, I've checked the Canon Forums and photo.net. A couple of others too, but they've faded away.
I am ready to try this place, too
Well, I am here too...
Same name as on FM... Never was a fan of "paying" forums. Maybe, I am just too cheap. I still love FM for all the good reasons. I found lot of new friends and got great informations and gear... I guess it is a time to move..
Hi to everybody from the cold and snowy Toronto:ivar
Well, I am here too...
Same name as on FM... Never was a fan of "paying" forums. Maybe, I am just too cheap. I still love FM for all the good reasons. I found lot of new friends and got great informations and gear... I guess it is a time to move..
Hi to everybody from the cold and snowy Toronto:ivar
Comments
I think they're going to lose a lot of viewers once they start charging sellers. Not all, but a good amount. Not everyone sells lg amounts of gear and those people will probably rather head over to diff board such as this one to sell to dodge the sellers fees.
I just think that a forum is given value by the members who are on it. FM states that the money will go to aiding against fraudulent sellers, I dont think $5 or $45 will make a lg diff. Plus, theres already a lot of good honest sellers there that you can make a good assumption from searching previous threads that you shouldn't need to charge a fee to make them more 'legit'.
Also, another reason for the fee was for the upload feature. Who honestly wants to pay money for a slow server to host certain fotos and be limited to a certain amount of space to be uploaded. For that use, Smugmug has yearly accounts for that same price and you can upload a jackload of images plus host them professionally online with an almost limitless amont of bandwidth (considering they are fotos). That would be a much better way to spend your money.
I would honestly gladly donate $20 anually to join that site if it would help speed up the site. But I dont see why FM just doesnt implement a way to show banner ads on his site. Shoot, I dont mind looking at banner ads as long as the service is great. Thats what we do now with television.
But like I said, if he does implement it, their #s of ads will go down. At least half of the sellers arent members there and if they dont sell enough they wont find paying an annual fee worthwhile. Especially if theres other sites such as Dgrin who offers this thing for FREE.
We all gotta' make a profit, but I think theres better ways to do it, especially on a forum.
I agree that they will lose a quite a few PPL.
What a drag.....90% of my equipment came from there and I NEVER had any troubles with sellers or buyers.
All I can say is this is VERY disapointing news!!! :cry
******AHHHHHHH after reading His posting***********
If you are not a subscriber, you may still read, reply and send a PM or Email to Items for Sale, however, you will NOT have the privilege to post a new item. With the Image Upload service, you may also upload pictures of the item(s) for sale to display in your message. And, you can post your photography on any of our other boards as well, including Weekly/Monthly assignments, etc…
From what I understand this will not affect the common "Joe Buyer" like me?
Manfrotto Mono | Bag- LowePro Slingshot 100AW
http://www.graphyfotoz.smugmug.com/
As slow as fredmiranda.com is I wouldn't pay one cent. Sometimes that site takes forever to load.
I am glad dgrin will not charge for this.
I got pretty much all my stuff from FM, and I sold there a lot, too.
Traffic over there was mindboggling. You could find pretty much anything you want within days, if not hours. So was with selling if the price was right.
Andy/Erik, can we somehow officially let the FM BS crowd know that Dgrin's Flea Market is just around the corner? Possibly with Fred's blessing:-)? Just an idea..
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/513874/0#4427927
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Funny how the lemmings jumped all over that and demanded it be deleted. I really can't stand FM.
These are not necessarily the same people who are complaining about the $45 "TO SELL" fee. Fred is not a stupid man I think he is simply regrouping and if a bunch of people with 5 posts cannot sell their gear for free I don't think he's going to loose a lot of sleep over it.
If the overall effect of this is to spread the B&S around a little more everything will be fine in a month or two. Many of us will find a new way to buy and sell. If the forum here ends up getting more traffic that will probably be a good thing for dgrin and Smugmug.
1D MarkIII, 16-35L, 28-70L, 70-200f2.8L, 50 f1.4, 300/f2.8L 1.4xL, 2XIIL (2)580EX, supporting cast of other stuff
dale@dhlewisphotography.com
http://dhlewisphotography.com
From a consumer's point of view, it sure was nice to have a "best" place to shop. Made life easy. But as Lewis says, change is a constant.
I'll be curious to see how much Flea Market traffic picks up here.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
I think you guys have some great points and a wonderful site that I have been watching for awhile. However, I think you need to realize that as a forum grows it can get out of control. Your board is great, kind of like FM a few years ago but I think everyone here would start to dislike this flea market if it started to get out of control.
Please keep in mind that many of us over on FM have bought and sold over 20k worth of stuff without ever having a problem. In fact there have not been many problems in the over 35,000 camera gear transactions on that site.
Overall though Fred does not care about the B/S board that much and the wonderfull moderators over here do...which is why I signed up here some time ago.
PS:
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That's why I'm sad to see it change: it benefitted me a great deal.
But as you say, I got the distinct impression that FM didn't welcome the forum's size and level of aggravation.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
Not sure how the Buy/Sell got out of control, though. Was there a recent increase in ripoffs? Or are you referring to the explosion in traffic?
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
1D MarkIII, 16-35L, 28-70L, 70-200f2.8L, 50 f1.4, 300/f2.8L 1.4xL, 2XIIL (2)580EX, supporting cast of other stuff
dale@dhlewisphotography.com
http://dhlewisphotography.com
I'm blushing!
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
As dhlewis said the problem was the number of posters bumping their posts. Some people would make 3-4 different threads (instead of combining the items into one thread) and bump them 3-6 times a day to keep them on the top two or three pages. They would also ask waaay too much IMO and need to bump them like this for a week or more. When you add this to computer parts for sale, etc, etc it was very hard to keep your item in the top 6 pages and most buyers do not look past that point.
I sold one lens there and got tired of the constant mod edits and wrist-slaps that came from having my every move rated, despite reading the lengthy forum rules. No modifying or adding a 2nd post within 24 hours? No changing the subject to reflect a sold item? Too many rules. No wonder Scott bailed—I certainly did.
I liked how things got buried. Made it easier to find the bargains.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
I agree.
I looked at the first couple of pages, then went to the last page and worked my way forward.
The bargains are on the later pages, just before it disappears.
Basking in the shadows of yesterday's triumphs'.
I didn't sell much at FM, did much more buying than selling. I am worried that many "killer deals," like getting a Canon 300D w/18-55m for only $275, will no longer show up there. So, having seen bauerman's thread at FM mentioning this site, I'm trying it out.
Hello to all of you again. I hope this site turns out to be a good one, it's nice to know the alternatives out there.
Welcome to Dgrin!
I vouch you will like it here - very friendly atmosphere, very helpful crowd. Not that many snobs, that's for sure, and absolute ZERO amount of trolls.
Cheers!
FM user since Feb 2005, DPReview user since Feb 2000
WELCOME!
I'm also a FM member Registered: Oct 14, 2005.
One of the reasons I signed was it was THE place to get great deals on used stuff.
No worries you've come to a great place!
More of a learning and sharing place.....but has a FS area that will probably gain traffic now.(FREE TOO)
DG was my 1st stop in my online Photog adventures and there are a lotta great PPL here!!
Manfrotto Mono | Bag- LowePro Slingshot 100AW
http://www.graphyfotoz.smugmug.com/
This is exactly why I suggested to get Fred's blessing first
Anyway, we got at least one new member:-)
“the farther back we look the farther forward we see.”—A. Theodore Kachel
http://www.lauren-macintosh.com
Heck we will take em all.....more than welcome here I'm sure!
Manfrotto Mono | Bag- LowePro Slingshot 100AW
http://www.graphyfotoz.smugmug.com/
This is NDeb, AKA "Kepola", on FM. Looking forward to seeing you all again on DGrin! Aloha, -debbie:D
We try hard to be friendly here, it's a nice and rapidly growing group.
Other than FM and dgrin, I've checked the Canon Forums and photo.net. A couple of others too, but they've faded away.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
Well, I am here too...
Same name as on FM... Never was a fan of "paying" forums. Maybe, I am just too cheap. I still love FM for all the good reasons. I found lot of new friends and got great informations and gear... I guess it is a time to move..
Hi to everybody from the cold and snowy Toronto:ivar
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