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Andy/Baldy - feed me

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    BaldyBaldy Registered Users, Super Moderators Posts: 2,853 moderator
    edited March 10, 2008
    Ann McRae wrote:
    Which book is/was more meaningful for you?
    My reaction to Omnivore's Dilemma was, "Hmmm... I should buy locally grown and not mass-produced plants. And animal production is disgusting." Next book.

    My reaction to Jane Goodall's book is, "Oh, no... This is a looming world crisis. I'm not touching animal foods for a whole lot more reasons than my health." It takes your breath away. This book will leave a mark.
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    bethybethy Registered Users Posts: 51 Big grins
    edited March 10, 2008
    I am having the same small-dose experience with the Goodall book. It makes me angry and sad and sick. It came in the mail last Wed, and I've only read a bit of it so far (very unlike me, ask Shizam, you usually have to tear any book out of my hands)

    For my distraction I read a novel and Skinny Bitch. I hadn't heard of Skinny Bitch, but Baldy was telling me about it on Friday, though I was only half listening, distracted by a quest to find the right tupperware lid. The name stuck in my head (catchy, though the word skinny always seems a little negative to me, "healthy bitch who could kick your butt" maybe?) so when I saw it at the used bookstore this Saturday I bought it. There was not much (any?) new info for me in there, and I actually prefer it when authors explain things in a more science-y way, but I can definitely see how it could get people (women) started on the path to eating a million pounds of veggies each week.
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    Ann McRaeAnn McRae Registered Users Posts: 4,584 Major grins
    edited March 11, 2008
    bethy wrote:
    Does anyone on here watch Family Guy? The episode last night was awesome, and it made me think of you guys... The dad has a stroke after eating 30 fast food hamburgers and wackiness ensues (ok, that doesn't *sound* funny, but it was!)

    You know, Beth, I've said my life resembles a sitcom....just really wish it was less family-guy-esque!!!!
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    BaldyBaldy Registered Users, Super Moderators Posts: 2,853 moderator
    edited March 11, 2008
    jfriend wrote:
    He apparently uses enough science citings in his work that some folks think he has credibility.
    Michael Pollen made the point in his brilliant talk at Stanford that as soon as you obscure nutrition with words nobody understands, the food industry quickly climbs on board.

    For example, when industry forced the senate nutrition panel to back off from its 4 clear words, eat less red meat, and say instead, choose meats with lower saturated fat, they went from clarity to obscurity. Now you could say, contains less saturated fat on the label and people will buy. Now you need experts to tell you what to eat. When you're confused, you'll just trust the brand with the wholesome-looking mother on TV.

    It also opens the door to people like Taubes who write sentences like, It is also undeniable, note students of Endocrinology 101, that mankind never evolved to eat a diet high in starches or sugars. Wow that sounds authoritative and science-based. What does it mean? He says it means load up on bacon cheeseburgers and he must know. Oranges, they have high sugar, right? So I guess that means we'd better leave the orange slice on the plate.

    The poor consumer would never know that the sugar in oranges is primarily fructose and when coupled with the fiber in oranges, there is nothing wrong with the endocrinology of them. Does Taubes know? Do the students in Endocrinology 101? The consumer can't be sure.

    The consumer used to know oranges were good for them, but in the age of words like endocrinology, Taubes sounds like he's right. So no oranges but that's okay because bacon is yummy and the students in endocrinology say go for it.
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    Mike LaneMike Lane Registered Users Posts: 7,106 Major grins
    edited March 11, 2008
    Is there any hope? I mean c'mon!
    Y'all don't want to hear me, you just want to dance.

    http://photos.mikelanestudios.com/
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    urbanariesurbanaries Registered Users Posts: 2,690 Major grins
    edited March 11, 2008
    Mike Lane wrote:
    Is there any hope? I mean c'mon!

    Ugh, maybe it's not so bad if you eat it sitting next to a waterfall and fresh bamboo.
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    schmooschmoo Registered Users Posts: 8,468 Major grins
    edited March 11, 2008
    Mike Lane wrote:
    Is there any hope? I mean c'mon!

    Just reading that gave me a case of heartburn lol3.gif
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    jfriendjfriend Registered Users Posts: 8,097 Major grins
    edited March 11, 2008
    Mike Lane wrote:
    Is there any hope? I mean c'mon!

    Just look at this one: The 20 worst foods in America.

    A few highlights:
    • Outback Steakhouse Cheese Fries: 182g fat, 2,900 calories
    • Carl's Jr. Double Six Dollar Burger: 111g fat, 1,520 calories
    • Taco Bell Salad: 102g fat, 1,450 calories
    • Kid's Meal: Double Macaroni and Cheese: 62g fat, 1,210 calories
    • Pepperidge Farm Chicken Pot Pie: 64g fat, 1,020 calories
    • Jamba Juice Chocolate Moo (30 oz.): 10g fat, 166g sugar, 900 calories
    • Chicken Strips (McDonald's): 55g fat, 830 calories
    --John
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    BaldyBaldy Registered Users, Super Moderators Posts: 2,853 moderator
    edited March 11, 2008
    Ann McRae wrote:
    Ethanol sucks
    I used to work in the energy industry on alternative fuels and I felt astonished at the time that we would pursue alcohol-based fuels.

    I guess we have a lot of corn to sell and it's politically motivated. It's certainly not motivated by a reasonable choice of fuel.
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    jfriendjfriend Registered Users Posts: 8,097 Major grins
    edited March 11, 2008
    Baldy wrote:
    I used to work in the energy industry on alternative fuels and I felt astonished at the time that we would pursue alcohol-based fuels.

    I guess we have a lot of corn to sell and it's politically motivated. It's certainly not motivated by a reasonable choice of fuel.

    My son did a report on ethanol from corn for school and discovered that it's barely net positive for energy (you only get about 30% more out than you put in to produce it). There are other crops that look much more promising like switchgrass (possibly as much as 500% more out than you put in). Ethanol from corn just seems stupid to me.

    On the bright side for ETL, if corn gets more expensive because of the demand to produce ethanol from it, then maybe the food industry will use less High Fructose Corn Syrup.
    --John
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    Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited March 11, 2008
    Baldy wrote:
    I continue to read Jane Goodall's book, which is definitely not light-hearted like Skinny Bitch. It makes you furrow your brow with very disturbing facts about how animals are raised, what it means for nutrition and the environment and our consciences. Really awful stuff. No wonder it didn't sell.

    It has much more science and facts than Michael Pollen's book, but he sure knows how to be the journalist and write what people would want to read better than her.

    She had dinner with the founder of Whole Foods and reported what he said as if it were probably true; the journalist bypassed him and instead looked at labels in Whole Foods that claimed "free range" and went to the farms to see what free range meant.

    She appealed to our concern over animals and the environment; he appealed to our self-interest in our own health. She covered corporate self-interest; he covered corporate scandals.

    In other words, the journalist knows how to investigate a story and make it appeal to consumers. She knows how to do science and report the brutal facts which make you recoil.

    One disturbing thing she said is 80% of soybeans grown in American are genetically engineered and the farmers report that they are much easier to store because bugs, bacteria, mice and stuff don't like to make a meal of them. As Michael Pollen said in his talk, "They're not stupid." rolleyes1.gif

    Another is that the genetically-engineered growth hormone rGBH to make cows produce more milk is illegal in Japan, Australia, Canada, the European Union and 101 countries in total, but it's fairly widely used in the U.S. Monsanto sues makers of organic milk that put on their labels, rGBH-free. There is no requirement to label milk as having rGBH. Some very convincing data ties it to distress in the cows and cancers in humans.

    I have to take the book in small doses so I don't get sick.

    I had the pleasure of being the sound engineer for the Mad Cowboy: Harold Lyman.... LINK TO HIS HOME PAGE - HAROLD F. LYMAN: MAD COWBOY

    His book : Mad Cowboy: Plain Truth from the Cattle Rancher that won't Eat Meat.......

    It is one of those that will make your gut cringe.......

    I grew up raising cattle, hogs, rabbits, chickens etc etc for food...we raised it , we butchered it...but we did not do the feedlot thing and man his description of the life of feed lot animals is disturbing.................

    Then there was my brother that tried making a living raising chickens in Arkansas....the first few years were okay...then the company came in and removed his feeders waterers and everyting and resupplied with special auto waterers and autofeeders and supplied him with a special growth supplement that went into the water......fryers now ready in less than 6 weeks....so he could turn more chicks per month.....that special growth supplement was in the feed also...all of a sudden he started seeing 3 legged chicks ...1 legged chick....chicks with all kind of abnormalities.......

    He got out of the chicky business in short order, left the farm and concentrated on his jack boot career with the county sherrifs dept:D

    Edit:
    On my Czech trip i was told by a farmer (that leases a very small portion of his land to a couple of US Universities for genetic engineering of veggies) that the US could never be granted admission to the EU due to our food supply being completely genetically engineered....according to his sources our"ORGANIC" food is not truly 100% organic....evidently the FDA allows a certain amount of chemical fertilizers and such to be used in the growing/ production of out "HEALTH FOOD"......at the time I was standing in a field (looked to be about 20acres) of the largest ROMA tomatoes I had ever seen....there were as big as some of the Big/Better Boy tomatoes I see at the Farmers Markets on Saturdays......he warned me that the tomato I had devoured might cause me some intestinal problems in a few minutes and to be sure and stay close to the woods just in case.......After spending time there and discussing with him and the friendI was visting, it was not hard for me to realize why I lost 40 lbs in 3 weeks and was off all my diabetic meds, until I returned here........
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    Ann McRaeAnn McRae Registered Users Posts: 4,584 Major grins
    edited March 11, 2008
    Baldy wrote:
    I used to work in the energy industry on alternative fuels and I felt astonished at the time that we would pursue alcohol-based fuels.

    I guess we have a lot of corn to sell and it's politically motivated. It's certainly not motivated by a reasonable choice of fuel.

    I found this line from that article telling:
    The results of the study call into question the assumption that enough land exists to fulfill current feed crop demand and expand corn and other crop production for ethanol.

    The study concludes that increasing ethanol production from U.S. croplands without endangering water quality and aquatic ecosystems will require a substantial reduction in meat consumption.

    Which of course all feeds into what is told by Michael Pollan in The Omnivores Dilema.

    Now, without learning about how things are all tied together, it would be easy to conclude that ethanol is good - burns cleaner, and that another use for corn, which seems to be produced to excess, would also be good. H

    However, when you gather the real facts together it doesn't add up:
    It takes plenty of energy to make ethanol from corn.
    Making lots of corn pollutes the oceans.
    Diversifying the corn belt to have more uses for corn prevents returning that land to more earth friendly activities.
    Yadayada.
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    BaldyBaldy Registered Users, Super Moderators Posts: 2,853 moderator
    edited March 12, 2008
    Hey, is anyone turning orange? I was a whitey for most of my 30s and 40s, or so a lot of people told me, but something has changed. Nearly everyone who hasn't seen me for awhile says, "Wow, you look so different. Did you just come back from Hawaii?"

    It's happening to my wife too. This is how we looked during the winter, when we weren't getting much sun:

    210448225_AiMw6-L-1.jpg

    (Logan, on my shoulders, eats a diet like mine but he gets a lot of sun.)

    But in the last month several of my friends have been saying, "You look orange. Even the palms of your hands are orange."

    Anyone else getting that?
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    schmooschmoo Registered Users Posts: 8,468 Major grins
    edited March 12, 2008
    Baldy wrote:
    Hey, is anyone turning orange? I was a whitey for most of my 30s and 40s, or so a lot of people told me, but something has changed. Nearly everyone who hasn't seen me for awhile says, "Wow, you look so different. Did you just come back from Hawaii?"

    It's happening to my wife too. This is how we looked during the winter, when we weren't getting much sun:

    (Logan, on my shoulders, eats a diet like mine but he gets a lot of sun.)

    But in the last month several of my friends have been saying, "You look orange. Even the palms of your hands are orange."

    Anyone else getting that?

    Can't say I've noticed it on myself yet, but it's only been a few months and... well, I've always been a little yellow. lol3.gif

    Didn't Dr Fuhrman say that might happen? That you might look a little jaundiced, but it's actually the rest of society that is unhealthily colored?
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    urbanariesurbanaries Registered Users Posts: 2,690 Major grins
    edited March 12, 2008
    Baldy, if you are eating a lot of sweet potatoes, carrots and dark green vegetables (which, survey says you just might be mwink.gif), it is probably from excess amounts of beta-carotene that your body can't use. Not dangerous AFAIK.

    One way to distinguish jaundice from beta-carotene is the whites of your eyes. If they're yellow, it's likely jaundice, if not, you're probably ok.
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    DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited March 12, 2008
    Baldy wrote:
    Hey, is anyone turning orange?


    Yes. My doctor commented on it. Just a comment, nothing more.
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    Ann McRaeAnn McRae Registered Users Posts: 4,584 Major grins
    edited March 12, 2008
    People keep complimenting me on my tan! I am really fair and do not tan well. Was in Mexico for 7 days of which 3 were really overcast, at the end of December. I still appear tanned!!! I was actually thinking that maybe my liver was having a problem! Gonna go check the color of the whites of my eyes now - if I can tell through all the bloodshottedness there.........
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    Ann McRaeAnn McRae Registered Users Posts: 4,584 Major grins
    edited March 12, 2008
    Weight loss more effective than intensive insulin therapy for type 2 diabetics

    Dr. Unger, who has investigated diabetes, obesity and insulin resistance for more than 50 years said intensive insulin therapy is contraindicated for obese patients with insulin-resistant type 2 diabetes because it increases the fatty acids that cause diabetes. Instead, the most rational therapy eliminates excess calories, thereby reducing the amount of insulin in the blood and the synthesis of the fatty acids stimulated by the high insulin. Giving more insulin simply increases body fat.
    “Giving more insulin to an insulin-resistant patient is akin to raising the blood pressure of a patient with high blood pressure to overcome resistance to blood flow. Instead, you would try to reduce the resistance,” he said.
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    bethybethy Registered Users Posts: 51 Big grins
    edited March 12, 2008
    Baldy, David, I too am orange. I went to the doctor when I noticed it on my palms a few months back because I was freaked out. They ran tests to make sure there was nothing wrong with me, and I was fine. Apparently it sometimes happens to babies and veg*ans who get most of their calories from carotenoid rich plants.

    My coworkers keep telling me to lay off the cheetos, or to eat some beef jerky instead of a bowl of veggies. Or telling me to start drinking silver (something like that, they saw it happen on that show House I think) and try to turn green (yellow/orange+blue=green) *chucks a kiwi at Shane's head

    Carotenosis is the word for it, according to my doctor.
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    bethybethy Registered Users Posts: 51 Big grins
    edited March 12, 2008
    When Sam and I have kids, I'm so getting my mom to knit these

    same-hat-different-cake-small.jpg

    and maybe a ham hat as well. Or a big roast?
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    Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited March 12, 2008
    Thursday's Smoothie
    Thursday's Smoothie or How I get at least 5 fruits a day.......

    Tossing all of this into the vitamix wettest / softest fruits in bottom to create the liquid needed to turn the harder/dryer fruits into a fantastic smoothie....all items constitute a recommended serving (approx 1 cup of most items) either from package or internet....:D

    not necessarily listed as they went into the VitaMIx:

    Berry mix (Fit and Active no sugar added:frozen Blk, Blue and rd raspberries)
    Strawberries
    1 orange & fragant pear
    1/2 pomegranite, apple(lg),mango,grapefruit,
    2 nectarines
    13(approx 3oz) baby carrots
    stuffed handfull of baby spinach
    3 broccoli stems with the floret attched
    1/2 tblsp lemon juice (real lemon)
    unmeasured amount of Stevia powder...sprinkled on top till it looked tooo sweet and it almost is :D

    Did have to add approx 1/2 cup of water to get it to smoothie but that was after it got stuck to the sides was moving thru the blades as it should....reason I had to add water was due to the fact that all fruits were smoothied with skins on nothing was peeled only hard stems removed.....Doing some reading about the various fruits I bought and find that most articles stated that most of the antioxidants and other medicinally good for you things are in the skin/rind.....I have always eaten my orange, lemon & lime peel but that was about it......

    Gotta watch the poms tho I had seeds popping all over....


    Since I am diabetic....nearly every thing on this list is supposed good to help lower blood sugar or at least to keep it from spiking too much......

    This actually filled my vitamix to the top.....guess next time I should use half the amount of each item......

    I have to say there is not sour or bitterness from the rinds...especially the poms leathery very bitter rind......
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    bethybethy Registered Users Posts: 51 Big grins
    edited March 12, 2008
    Does it make me sound like a 'nutritionist' if I say you should try adding some cinnamon too? Besides being tasty, I think it's supposed to be good for your blood-sugar-hoo-ha (that's the medical term).
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    Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited March 13, 2008
    bethy wrote:
    Does it make me sound like a 'nutritionist' if I say you should try adding some cinnamon too? Besides being tasty, I think it's supposed to be good for your blood-sugar-hoo-ha (that's the medical term).

    I realized toooooo late that I had forgot the cinnamon and the flax seed....there just wasn't room....:D...and yes cinnamon is very good for blood-sugar-hoo-ha...so is fresh or dried stevia but I only had the white processed kind which has not nutritional or medicinal value......I will add cinnamon next time, I love that stuff.............
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    Ann McRaeAnn McRae Registered Users Posts: 4,584 Major grins
    edited March 13, 2008
    Take 2 frozen "Stirfry's Bean Burgers", chop them up, cook them with tomato sauce and serve over pasts for a really quick, really hearty, pasta sauce! YUM.
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    AnneMcBeanAnneMcBean Registered Users Posts: 503 Major grins
    edited March 13, 2008
    Ann McRae wrote:
    Take 2 frozen "Stirfry's Bean Burgers", chop them up, cook them with tomato sauce and serve over pasts for a really quick, really hearty, pasta sauce! YUM.

    Just made some of those bean burgers for dinner. Black beans with salsa and cumin in 'em and they were pretty yummy for a first try. I served them alongside "turnip greens and red cabbage sauteed with carroway seeds". Kind of an odd meal but it got cooked, leafy greens down the hatch and gave me a new way to eat my beans! thumb.gif

    -Anne
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    Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited March 15, 2008
    How long before the orange color takes effect
    Carrots and broccoli have always been favorites of mine and eaten 2 or 3 times a week...but now even in my daily fruit smoothies I have a large hand ful of spinach (baby) 2 or 3 crowns including the while stem (unpeeled... let the VitaMix do its work) of broccoli and approx 3 ounces of baby carrots....and I have not noticed any change in my whiteness:D..I stil look like I never have been in the sun...of course for the past 8 mo to a yr I have worked nights and slept days so I guess Ihave been in the dark most ofthetime except eary morn, when I'd get off work and go chase an Eagle or Deer or 2 with camera before going to sleep..........

    I was just wondering if I have another week or longer before I quite looking like death walkingrolleyes1.gifrolleyes1.gifrolleyes1.gif
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    jfriendjfriend Registered Users Posts: 8,097 Major grins
    edited March 15, 2008
    What Happens To Your Body Within An Hour Of Drinking A Coke
    Interesting reading...

    What Happens To Your Body Within An Hour Of Drinking A Coke
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    zweiblumenzweiblumen Registered Users Posts: 369 Major grins
    edited March 15, 2008
    jfriend wrote:

    :grim

    I used to drink soda by the gallon... I calculated at one time that I was drinking ~6 liters of the crap a day :puke1 :puke1. Ugh. FWIW, I stopped drinking soda about 8 months ago (I was down to < 1 liter/day) and I lost 2 inches around my waist by simply switching from Coke to unsweetened Iced Tea (no idea about weight as I didn't weigh myself).
    Travis
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    jfriendjfriend Registered Users Posts: 8,097 Major grins
    edited March 15, 2008
    I'm appalled at our government
    I know this is a wishful post, full of idealism, and I'm just a peon in the nutrition/food world of government but hey I'm dreaming right now so I might as well dream big...

    I'm really appalled at what our U.S. government has done and continues to do to mess up everything related to food in this country. It's making us fat and sick and giving us heart disease and cancer at record rates. The research is out there and there seems to be little disagreement that it's right. We know how to be healthier, but the powerful food lobbies stand in the way and appear to have massive influence with the FDA.

    I'm wondering what we can do to try to get things changed. Some things that bum me out (just a few for starters):
    • The food pyramid is all messed up and the FDA is way behind the times
    • All communication about what is and isn't healthy is so watered down so as not to offend some food-related business that no real message is getting through.
    • Feed for the beef industry is subsidized by our tax dollars.
    • Fruits and vegetables destined for direct human consumption are not subsidized. Ironically, they can sometimes get subsidized if they are grown for animal consumption.
    • Corn is subsidized (that's one reason that high fructose corn syrup is cheap).
    • Milk is subsidized.
    If we want our children to grow up knowing about proper diet and health and eating that way, we have to educate them ourselves and fight against what our government tries to teach them in school and occasionally feed them.

    So, I'd like to see some thing change:
    • A healthier food pyramid with a real emphais on fruits, vegetables and whole grains. Dr. F has a pretty good pyramid we could use.
    • Either get rid of all farm subsidies and deploy the money in more useful directions or direct the subsidies at things that really make us healthy
    • Somehow change the FDA so it's more about keeping America healthy than it is serving the needs of the food industry.
    So, I'm wondering what other things you all would add to this list of things that should change and what ideas anyone has for how we might start a ball rolling towards some change.

    Anyone else want to try to do something to change this? Have any ideas about existing organizations working in this direction?
    --John
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