Blah Blah Graphic Artist, Blah Blah, no one else can be creative, blah blah, I know how to kern, blah
Don't you dare try to design things unless you are a licensed, verified, homogenized, pastuerized, nuedered graphic artist.
I just turned in my camera because I don't have a degree in photography. Im an engineer, oh crap, nobody told me that Im not allowed to be creative. I guess its back to the slide rule for me... if you know what that is.
Let me say at the outset that I'm sorry you've reacted the way you have. This was not intended.
If you know your comments might offend and you don't want to, then don't say them. If you don't care, and trust me, I wasn't offended, say them without the tag. Own up to what you speak without having an escape route.
I referred to my comments as not being intended to cause offence because they we not intended to cause offence - no code, nothing between the lines. I've got better things to do than spend my time rarking people up. I thought I was providing some useful input into the discussion. That you've interpreted my motive as setting out to attack you is a little sad and as I've said, I'm sorry.
I'll comment on your site. To me it's boring. Not one thing when I see that page says, hey, look, this might show you something exciting, different or just damn good.
I'm not trying to attract anyone, nor to sell anything from my site. I'm paying for the basic Smugmug service only, because that's all I want. I didn't think this thread was to do with Smugmuggers like me, but of particular interest to those in business. I've got no CSSs, no banner of any kind, just a straightforward implementation of the basic features. It's purely for my interest. But like you, I can take the 'criticism'.
I agree professionals looking to be professional for professional work in the public should have a well designed, simple but elegant site ....
I consider all people selling photography as a business as being 'professionals'. I've also said good design is in the eye of the beholder and, furthermore, there's no single approach to 'good design'. What's suitable in each case depends on the business objective and market segment, otherwise soap powder ads would be indistinguishable in style from those for funeral homes.
If you have worked out you are going to be more successful in your target market by making the eyes of your prospective clients bleed, then that's your judgement and your decision. The issue is not to do with whether the style is 'button down' or 'acid rock'. It's about whether the design is effective for the purpose - and there some fundamental principles of good design irrespective of the market target. That's all. Seriously, I wish you luck.
Notwithstanding your reaction to my post, I trust there is someone out there who appreciated my comments in the spirit, and for the purpose, that they were provided, and that the reference and business card example I took the trouble to post will be helpful.
If you can't look yourself in the mirror and convince yourself you understand the principles of graphic design, then I highly recommend 'The Non-Designer's Design Book' by Robin Williams before you start to design your card or web site (or even customise a Smugmug site, for that matter). This book is succinct, and easy to understand and remember.
Does that mean that none of us are designers because we didn't go to design school?
Sam I love the two photos you chose. I have some suggestions about your use of fonts and balance but in the current air in the forum I refrain from stating them here. I'm happy to assist privately if you wish.
Angelo,
I would gladly accept your input publicly or privately. I worked on the fonts and balance but couldn't get what I wanted. That's one of the reasons I posted it.
So yes please when you have time show me your ideas.
I will admit I was taken back, and offended by one of the posts. I think there are a lot of really good cards posted here. Perfect, no, .....good, distictive, yes.
If anyone anywhere can show me a perfect business card please..........show me! I have never even heard of it, much less seen one.
The idea here is to offer opinions to help, not denigrate. (Oh boy am I bitting my tounge at this point.)
Hey, i'm a step up from writing my name on the back of gum wrappers. :
I would gladly accept your input publicly or privately. I worked on the fonts and balance but couldn't get what I wanted. That's one of the reasons I posted it.
So yes please when you have time show me your ideas.
I will admit I was taken back, and offended by one of the posts. I think there are a lot of really good cards posted here. Perfect, no, .....good, distictive, yes.
If anyone anywhere can show me a perfect business card please..........show me! I have never even heard of it, much less seen one.
The idea here is to offer opinions to help, not denigrate. (Oh boy am I bitting my tounge at this point.)
Hey, i'm a step up from writing my name on the back of gum wrappers. :
Sam
hey don't knock gumm wrappers!!! :
email me your primary background pic and I'll give it a whirl.
Quote:
Originally Posted by luke_church Hi Webster, I don't usually get involved in technology slagging matches, my life is too short. However I feel this is a little harsh. MS employs some extremly (sic) smart people .....
No offence or aspersions were intended! Where I come from, this is considered as merely 'taking the piss'. In the context of this forum as taking a 'wide angle', I just thought the comment was a little telling, but I'll be more circumspect if others take umbrage.
__________________ DubDubDub
Respectfully 3Dubs, if we come from the same place, there is also "cheap shots" and you have done embarrassingly well there. And as you were thus obviously holding back so circumspectly in your comments in your Paragraph 3, God help those of us who photograph children and pets if you had said what you really think of us: thank-you for holding back when you said.
"... most camera owners having no concept nor intuitive understanding of what constitutes good image composition, .... totally incapable of creating any picture with any endearing quality whatsoever. We see more than our share of dog and child shots posted on this site which come into this category, ...."
So I remain as you would prefer unoffended, and do not take umbrage. (And did not read that paragraph out of context with your entire posting).
I ended up catching up with this thread from back to front. I read the last three pages, and I'm going to stay out of the fracas, but I did want to add a comment on Angelo's card. I was able to quote the change that WWW made, but Angelo's was an attachment, so you'd have to go find it to compare.
Anyway, I saw this one first, and I thought...proximity, put connected information together so that the eye knows what goes together. This layout confuses me on that level. I wanted the words angelo and photography together.
When I went back and saw Angelo's original, however, I got it. The name of the company on the right, the address on the left. It makes sense that way.
I ended up catching up with this thread from back to front. I read the last three pages, and I'm going to stay out of the fracas, but I did want to add a comment on Angelo's card. I was able to quote the change that WWW made, but Angelo's was an attachment, so you'd have to go find it to compare.
Anyway, I saw this one first, and I thought...proximity, put connected information together so that the eye knows what goes together. This layout confuses me on that level. I wanted the words angelo and photography together.
When I went back and saw Angelo's original, however, I got it. The name of the company on the right, the address on the left. It makes sense that way.
Thanks David. That was my thinking. I tried it the other way myself but considered the balance too heavily skewed to the right.
Here's mine use overnightprints too they do fine job
Thanks
Fred
The card looks good, and thanks for letting me know about Overnightprints. I helped my next door neighbor work up a simple card for his hobby, and he ordered a box. I'll let you know what I think of the quality. I know it's about half the price of having them printed locally.
I recently made some cards for my brother (I fill the role as the family computer-geek) Overnight prints did a great job with them. I'd use them again.
thanks everyone
This has been very encouraging as I do a new card.
As for "old skool" designers with attitude, I had to laugh. On my first job (around when the PC became a useful thing for us techies) the CEO had a designer doing the company's cards. The logo was two triangles. The ink was a blood red color. The card was gray. As a new employee, I asked for cards.
The cost was $600 for a set of 1000 cards and a 5 week lead time! I looked further... the ink color was "custom" and licensed by the "artist" for use on the business cards. The logo was similarly licensed, special paper, etc etc. The printer even told me the artist had him reprint one set 7 times because he didn't like the "patina" of the ink once it had dried.
Yeah, okay. I'll call you if I need that. In the mean time....
OK, I post the example below with the idea that many will think it to busy....If not I'd love to hear what you think.
My real intention is to throw out an idea I have...
[FONT=Geneva, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In case you wonder, as others did, the pic's actually the ruins in Rome, near The Collosium.
I'm working on a new idea......here's the concept.....
white background, black, text...(how do you feel about the current text style and arrangement?), take an image from one of my play shoots (crop out the performer only) then do the same with a dancer and an athlete.
So 3 people doing there thing cropped out of the surrounding original background....
Here are my two business cards. I ordered 1000 of the first card before building my studio, which is why there is no address on that one. The second one is primarily for prospective wedding clients.
i have simple text cards with a clipart from staples for like $20 for 1000. they get the job done. if i need to get the word out about my photography, i usually print up flyers appropriate to the event and hand them out. i'll probably start making some cards with pictures on them, but right now this works great.
Here's my newest effort. [FONT=Geneva, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The back was basically given to me by someone and I reproduced it and added a few of my own ideas to make it fit card sized media. The front is my own...[/FONT]
Interesting topic and some awesome looking cards y'all have! I've just made my first card (only 30 variations to get here)... so critiques are always welcome.
Like Sam, for me this isn't a business either. These are more to hand out to folks and get some added credibility for when I want to stick a camera in someone's face, or get somewhere that may need permission etc.
I like the idea of only getting 100 so I can change the featured pictures from time to time. Unless opinions on overnightprints.com have plunged, I'll be giving them a call.
Canon 1D Mk II N - Canon 5D - Canon EF 17-40 f/4L USM - Canon EF 24-105 f/4L IS USM - Canon EF 85 f/1.8 USM - Canon EF 100 f/2.8 macro - Canon EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS USM
I agree, there are a lot of awesome creations here. I only wonder how they look at actual card size (2.5x3 inches). I had set up a few real neat ideas in photoshop, only to find they were...well, let's just say not so good at card size...The pics become too small and the text becomes un-readable. (Too small, or overwhelmed by the "real cool effect" that looked sooooo good large.)
Here's my latest revision on the front:
and the back:
I'm thinking about these alternate version for the front too. Maybe a few different versions...
or possibly...
Seeing all the ideas is great, but have not seen to many comments lately....Come on folks...I can take it....
My business card is above, a shot from this past summer on Cape Cod. My two biggest tips once you've designed your card are:
- At Staples you can get business card stock that SNAPS out of the paper; there are no perforations. This makes a huge difference in the professionalism of your card.
- Second, get glossy business card stock. For the exact same reason as above.
There is a noticeable difference in the reaction on people's faces when you give them cards of high quality.
I like it, but maybe I could make a couple of comments?
You don't need the words gallery, email or contact. It's obvious what those are, and if it's not obvious to someone, then they'll never use them anyway!
Canon is a distracting and unnecessary detail, IMO. Not to mention the possibility of legal concerns...
Comments
Don't you dare try to design things unless you are a licensed, verified, homogenized, pastuerized, nuedered graphic artist.
I just turned in my camera because I don't have a degree in photography. Im an engineer, oh crap, nobody told me that Im not allowed to be creative. I guess its back to the slide rule for me... if you know what that is.
Khaos
I take it your latest post is directed to me?
Let me say at the outset that I'm sorry you've reacted the way you have. This was not intended.
I referred to my comments as not being intended to cause offence because they we not intended to cause offence - no code, nothing between the lines. I've got better things to do than spend my time rarking people up. I thought I was providing some useful input into the discussion. That you've interpreted my motive as setting out to attack you is a little sad and as I've said, I'm sorry.
I'm not trying to attract anyone, nor to sell anything from my site. I'm paying for the basic Smugmug service only, because that's all I want. I didn't think this thread was to do with Smugmuggers like me, but of particular interest to those in business. I've got no CSSs, no banner of any kind, just a straightforward implementation of the basic features. It's purely for my interest. But like you, I can take the 'criticism'.
I consider all people selling photography as a business as being 'professionals'. I've also said good design is in the eye of the beholder and, furthermore, there's no single approach to 'good design'. What's suitable in each case depends on the business objective and market segment, otherwise soap powder ads would be indistinguishable in style from those for funeral homes.
If you have worked out you are going to be more successful in your target market by making the eyes of your prospective clients bleed, then that's your judgement and your decision. The issue is not to do with whether the style is 'button down' or 'acid rock'. It's about whether the design is effective for the purpose - and there some fundamental principles of good design irrespective of the market target. That's all. Seriously, I wish you luck.
Notwithstanding your reaction to my post, I trust there is someone out there who appreciated my comments in the spirit, and for the purpose, that they were provided, and that the reference and business card example I took the trouble to post will be helpful.
I would gladly accept your input publicly or privately. I worked on the fonts and balance but couldn't get what I wanted. That's one of the reasons I posted it.
So yes please when you have time show me your ideas.
I will admit I was taken back, and offended by one of the posts. I think there are a lot of really good cards posted here. Perfect, no, .....good, distictive, yes.
If anyone anywhere can show me a perfect business card please..........show me! I have never even heard of it, much less seen one.
The idea here is to offer opinions to help, not denigrate. (Oh boy am I bitting my tounge at this point.)
Hey, i'm a step up from writing my name on the back of gum wrappers.
Sam
email me your primary background pic and I'll give it a whirl.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
Quote:
Originally Posted by luke_church
Hi Webster,
I don't usually get involved in technology slagging matches, my life is too short. However I feel this is a little harsh. MS employs some extremly (sic) smart people .....
No offence or aspersions were intended! Where I come from, this is considered as merely 'taking the piss'. In the context of this forum as taking a 'wide angle', I just thought the comment was a little telling, but I'll be more circumspect if others take umbrage.
__________________
DubDubDub
Respectfully 3Dubs, if we come from the same place, there is also "cheap shots" and you have done embarrassingly well there. And as you were thus obviously holding back so circumspectly in your comments in your Paragraph 3, God help those of us who photograph children and pets if you had said what you really think of us: thank-you for holding back when you said.
"... most camera owners having no concept nor intuitive understanding of what constitutes good image composition, .... totally incapable of creating any picture with any endearing quality whatsoever. We see more than our share of dog and child shots posted on this site which come into this category, ...."
So I remain as you would prefer unoffended, and do not take umbrage. (And did not read that paragraph out of context with your entire posting).
http://www.sherbrookephotography.smugmug.com
I ended up catching up with this thread from back to front. I read the last three pages, and I'm going to stay out of the fracas, but I did want to add a comment on Angelo's card. I was able to quote the change that WWW made, but Angelo's was an attachment, so you'd have to go find it to compare.
Anyway, I saw this one first, and I thought...proximity, put connected information together so that the eye knows what goes together. This layout confuses me on that level. I wanted the words angelo and photography together.
When I went back and saw Angelo's original, however, I got it. The name of the company on the right, the address on the left. It makes sense that way.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
my words, my "pro"pictures, my "fun" pictures, my videos.
Thanks
Fred
http://www.facebook.com/Riverbendphotos
Sam
Sam
Front:
Back:
I ran out of my old cards, so I decided to make a new batch.
Actually, I made two different designs.
First is the "enhanced" old one, for generic purposes (double sided, UV gloss):
And another - brand new one - for what I hope to be a somewhat profitable business:
500 black ones and 1,000 white ones cost only $39 each, plus tax - and I got free shipping:-). Overnightprints rules!
This has been very encouraging as I do a new card.
As for "old skool" designers with attitude, I had to laugh. On my first job (around when the PC became a useful thing for us techies) the CEO had a designer doing the company's cards. The logo was two triangles. The ink was a blood red color. The card was gray. As a new employee, I asked for cards.
The cost was $600 for a set of 1000 cards and a 5 week lead time! I looked further... the ink color was "custom" and licensed by the "artist" for use on the business cards. The logo was similarly licensed, special paper, etc etc. The printer even told me the artist had him reprint one set 7 times because he didn't like the "patina" of the ink once it had dried.
Yeah, okay. I'll call you if I need that. In the mean time....
My real intention is to throw out an idea I have...
[FONT=Geneva, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In case you wonder, as others did, the pic's actually the ruins in Rome, near The Collosium.
I'm working on a new idea......here's the concept.....
white background, black, text...(how do you feel about the current text style and arrangement?), take an image from one of my play shoots (crop out the performer only) then do the same with a dancer and an athlete.
So 3 people doing there thing cropped out of the surrounding original background....
Now if I can only get it to work... [/FONT]
I use several different photos and print them out myself on Avery glossy card stock
smugmug: www.StandOutphoto.smugmug.com
Arlington, Tx
http://www.innovativeillusionsphoto.com/
OMP member #: 173034
Canon EOS 5D : Bogen 3051 tripod : Bogen Monopod : Bogen 3030 head unit : Canon Speedlight 580EX : Canon EF 28-200 F3.5 : Canon 70-200 f2.8L : Canon 24-70mm F2.8L and other Canon Gear
The camera doesn't make a bit of difference. All of them can record what you are seeing. But, you have to SEE." - Ernst Haas
(front)
Back
Like Sam, for me this isn't a business either. These are more to hand out to folks and get some added credibility for when I want to stick a camera in someone's face, or get somewhere that may need permission etc.
I like the idea of only getting 100 so I can change the featured pictures from time to time. Unless opinions on overnightprints.com have plunged, I'll be giving them a call.
Jack
http://www.SplendorousSojourns.com
Canon 1D Mk II N - Canon 5D - Canon EF 17-40 f/4L USM - Canon EF 24-105 f/4L IS USM - Canon EF 85 f/1.8 USM - Canon EF 100 f/2.8 macro - Canon EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS USM
Here's my latest revision on the front:
and the back:
I'm thinking about these alternate version for the front too. Maybe a few different versions...
or possibly...
Seeing all the ideas is great, but have not seen to many comments lately....Come on folks...I can take it....
My business card is above, a shot from this past summer on Cape Cod. My two biggest tips once you've designed your card are:
- At Staples you can get business card stock that SNAPS out of the paper; there are no perforations. This makes a huge difference in the professionalism of your card.
- Second, get glossy business card stock. For the exact same reason as above.
There is a noticeable difference in the reaction on people's faces when you give them cards of high quality.
Hope you guys like my card!
Michael
Michael Landry Photography, LLC
http://www.michaellandry.com
photos@michaellandry.com
I like it, but maybe I could make a couple of comments?
You don't need the words gallery, email or contact. It's obvious what those are, and if it's not obvious to someone, then they'll never use them anyway!
Canon is a distracting and unnecessary detail, IMO. Not to mention the possibility of legal concerns...
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops