Hey Marc,
Thanks for sharing this detailed approach (or at least part 1 of it). My only question is in your leaving the default brightness and contrast settings in ACR. I had seen a video by Martin Evening URL="http://lightroom-news.com/2009/03/21/exposure-and-brightness-adjustments/"]link[/URL a while back about the use of brightness and exposure in LR and, since then, have changed my default brightness to 25 so that I now use the exposure slider much more to adjust the overall 'brightness' of the image. I would love to hear your take on this.
Thanks,
E
Great question
IMO the sliders used and the order in which used is all image dependent.
Because this image is predominantly dark and shot at 400 ISO I did not want to increase the noise by increasing the brightness too much.
What I really wish is that one could depress the opt/alt key on the brightness slider as well.
The BIG diff between the brightness slider and the exposure slider is that they effect diff areas of the curve.
The brightness slider will not effect the end point or highlights in most cases. This is only because on some images if you crank the brightness slider up too far the highlights that you previously set in the exposure slider will become blown:cry
For this reason and this image, I left the brightness slider at +50. This increased the values in the mid tones and shoulder (leaves) of the tone curve without effecting the white point. The exposure slider being set at -.55 allowed me to retain as much of the blown highlights as possible and with the brightness slider set to +50, also maintain slightly lighter values in the trunk and leaves.
I actually believe his vid is confusing.
What scares me the most about his vid is his statement that "you dont need to look at the histogram while shooting in RAW, only concern yourself with this when shooting jpeg"
I always view the histogram, EVEN WHEN SHOOTING IN RAW
He goes on to state that you have FULL control in LR or ACR.
IMO you really dont have FULL control, but rather limited. I know it is WAY more control than a film work flow ever allowed, but not FULL.
You only have FULL control if you consider the camera and software as one tool linked together by your vision and FULL understanding of all their secrets, limitations and potential.
Hi, its been awhile since I visited Muench University so I went back through the posts for the last few months and learned two things that I have not been doing regularly. The first is with chromatic aberration-- I usually correct this if I notice it, but in the example Marc set the image to 300% and then corrected visually-- is this the best way to do it? Also, something I did not know was about holding option with the exposure slider to correct blown highlights. I have been using the Recovery slider- is one better than the other? Also, I pulled up some images in my trash folder because they were blown just to try it, and I found that I had to slide past the point of the screen being totally black ( I guess bc they were so blown out) in order to correct properly. This then obviously results in the whole image being underexposed- do you then mask the two different exposures as separate layers to combine in PS? Thanks for the help I'm very happy to be learning these new techniques and uploaded a couple of images that hopefully marc will critique.
Thanks,
Chris
Hi, its been awhile since I visited Muench University so I went back through the posts for the last few months and learned two things that I have not been doing regularly. The first is with chromatic aberration-- I usually correct this if I notice it, but in the example Marc set the image to 300% and then corrected visually-- is this the best way to do it? Also, something I did not know was about holding option with the exposure slider to correct blown highlights. I have been using the Recovery slider- is one better than the other? Also, I pulled up some images in my trash folder because they were blown just to try it, and I found that I had to slide past the point of the screen being totally black ( I guess bc they were so blown out) in order to correct properly. This then obviously results in the whole image being underexposed- do you then mask the two different exposures as separate layers to combine in PS? Thanks for the help I'm very happy to be learning these new techniques and uploaded a couple of images that hopefully marc will critique.
Thanks,
Chris
Everything I know about chromatic aberration correction I learned from Marc - so -- Yes, to evaluate for CA, you need to look at the image at 200% or 300 % in size. I usually try to look out near the corners, to see if there is a consistent pattern of CA, either Red/Green or Blue/Yellow. R/G is usually far more prominent and pervasive than Blue/Yellow. The first thing I do, is turn on Defringe to ALL and recheck the image for CA. Sometimes, Defringing is all that is needed - fast and easy. If R/G remains after setting Defringe to ALL, then I slide the slider to remove the R/G CA visually. Usually you can kill it all, sometimes you have to accept just making it a bit better. Sometimes the Blue/Yellow slider needs to be included as well.
You will find there is a bit of a learning curve to do this well - at first it seems kinds of unpredictable, but with time it gets easier and faster. Primes usually take the same settings for most images, but zooms will have more unpredictable needs depending on focal length used and distance from the sensor plane.
Regarding the Exposure and the Recovery sliders for over exposure. You can set your image so blown pixels are displayed in red, but I prefer to hold the option key down as I adjust the Exposure slider to show me the fried pixels. Generally, the Exposure slider sets the white point, and then you adjust the blackpoint with the Black slider. Then you can use the Recovery slider to help bring back the highlights after setting the exposure slider. The Recovery slider will really help correct over exposed pixels. I rarely use this sider greater than mid point, but there certainly can be exemptions to this.
Raw gives us more room to salvage over exposed images, but there are still limits. If I can't correct an image with modest use of the sliders, I tend to bin it. Yes, you can make two separate exposure from a RAW file, and then recombine them as Smart Objects in Photoshop.
Just discovered the Muench University critiquing and submitted right away! Thanks a lot for taking the time to do this for us, always willing to learn more especially about photography.
Hmmm... I sent in 4 images yesterday on my lunch break and I'm not seeing them in the "Round 4" gallery. Are we on to Round 5? Or did I make a mistake in sending them in? (I'm bettin' it was my fault! )
Hmmm... I sent in 4 images yesterday on my lunch break and I'm not seeing them in the "Round 4" gallery. Are we on to Round 5? Or did I make a mistake in sending them in? (I'm bettin' it was my fault! )
Hey Chris,
Yep, we're in Round Five. It's linked in the body of the instructions as the word "HERE", not at the bottom. The bottom ones are just the archived galleries. Sorry about the confusion!
It's also worth it for anyone who's submitted images to leave a comment with their username if it didn't automatically do it. It just makes Marc's life a little easier
Yep, we're in Round Five. It's linked in the body of the instructions as the word "HERE", not at the bottom. The bottom ones are just the archived galleries. Sorry about the confusion!
It's also worth it for anyone who's submitted images to leave a comment with their username if it didn't automatically do it. It just makes Marc's life a little easier
Oops!
No need to appologize for my failure to read the whole post, Schmoo... that's my fault! Thanks for pointing me to the right spot!
Curiously, the captions appear to have picked up the jpg name instead of the body copy from my email... not a big deal, I'll comment to add my user name now, just trying to say that I read part of the first post and followed the instructions!
Thanks for administering all of this. I just sent in a photo, and it didn't pick up my username or title in the caption. It's the one that just says "Lake" (which was the filename).
I tried clicking "Add Comment", but it wouldn't let me.
Thanks for administering all of this. I just sent in a photo, and it didn't pick up my username or title in the caption. It's the one that just says "Lake" (which was the filename).
I tried clicking "Add Comment", but it wouldn't let me.
Username: bsclark_1
Title: Tranquility Defined
No problem and I fixed this for you! Beautiful scene and I wish I was sitting out there watching that sky right now.
If you are having trouble posting comments can you check to make sure that your browser can run JavaScript? Here's a site that will test that for you.
Good luck and hope to see you sharing more photos with us.
Great composition
Good depth of field
Good subject
Post processing is too dark
Color balance does not appear natural
I like the mood, location and choice of lens in this image. However, there are three things bothering me about this image. The most important is the dark rocks, which may have been dark in reality but appear too muddy in the presentation here. The other is the color of the rocks, which is spilling over into the clouds, and I think is also contaminating the blue of the sky. I do enjoy the small boulder balanced on the top of the large one which is part of the reason I appreciate your choice of composition. The third problem is the point of view, which I think could have been lower. This would shrink the amount of mid ground, forcing the quartz vein in the foreground closer to the large boulders on the horizon.
I am impressed by how much better the edited version is with the darker and greater contrast in the near subject, and the lowered contrast and lightened background far away. I must remember to try this with some of my images,. Very nicely done.
I am impressed by how much better the edited version is with the darker and greater contrast in the near subject, and the lowered contrast and lightened background far away. I must remember to try this with some of my images,. Very nicely done.
I too need to remember this! How in the *%$&^* do you remember all of this?
Sometimes when I wake up I can't remember where I am, who I am or why I am in hand cuffs.
Wow, Thank God I found this thread. Lots of really really good advice here, I am learning a lot. I shall post my pic soon here, I'd love to get my pics reviewed as well clap
There have been a ton of new folks to Dgrin since this thread launched. This is just a reminder to all people who love photography that our fantastic artist-in-residence, Marc, is happy to donate his expertise to help you shoot better, stronger images.
It's a great opportunity to submit your best work to the gallery for a chance at one-on-one critique.
So are we still on ... round 6? Since round 5 closed May 18, 2010?
I'll have to look through my stuff, see if there's anything that's even CLOSE to the level of polish as what's in the galleries already!\
Edit: Yes, I found three that I've been working on recently, and those are up now in the Round 6 gallery. The username & title from the body did not get into the title, so it's still the "DSC 0045" filename that's associated with the pictures. Comments on the picture underneath for keeping track.
Neat stuff - I've been looking through this thread whenever I get a chance.
There's a lot of moving parts with different email clients so sometimes the info you drop into the body of the message may get separated. Glad it worked!
Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
edited September 4, 2012
In the past, the galleries last months! It really depends on how many submit and how much time I have.
I'm heading into the mountains for a week tomorrow, so there will be a slight delay.....
This is your chance to have a one-on-one critique with master photographer and all-around great guy Marc Muench. We've all seen him active in this forum, been awed at what he can do with his camera, read his publications and we know that he has no fear dishing out honest feedback.
To take Muench University's course in landscape photography, here's what you do:
1) Choose up to 3 landscape images of your best work. Post-processed, edited, what you consider to be finished and polished images.
2) Resize your photo to 1024 pixels on the longest size. This is just to be sure that we're working from display copies. If you use Smugmug, this is the XL size.
3) Submit your image to our gallery using the new Guest Upload feature of Smugmug. To do this:
Drag and drop, or use the Browse feature to add your photos, then press Done.
Post a Comment for each of your images containing your Dgrin username, and a title. I (kdog) will move your comment to the caption field of the photo.
4) You may want to subscribe to this thread so if your image is selected, you'll know about it. You can set up subscriptions and notification methods in your Dgrin control panel.
Marc will choose an image from that gallery to critique. If your image does not get chosen, you can always submit more entries for the next round. Remember that we can all learn from the conversation - even if the image isn't our own! When Marc is done, he'll move on and choose the next image, again at his choosing.
The conversation that will follow is between Marc and the chosen photographer. You are invited to follow along, but it is a dialog between the two. We have an open forum [thread=88306]right here[/thread] where you all can chit-chat all you want about what's going on in the main critique. We will move any stray posts in this thread.
This is the big time, folks! Please no whinging, sour grapes, or drama. Have fun... and go learn something!
View the full array of stunning submissions right here in the archives:
Comments
IMO the sliders used and the order in which used is all image dependent.
Because this image is predominantly dark and shot at 400 ISO I did not want to increase the noise by increasing the brightness too much.
What I really wish is that one could depress the opt/alt key on the brightness slider as well.
The BIG diff between the brightness slider and the exposure slider is that they effect diff areas of the curve.
The brightness slider will not effect the end point or highlights in most cases. This is only because on some images if you crank the brightness slider up too far the highlights that you previously set in the exposure slider will become blown:cry
For this reason and this image, I left the brightness slider at +50. This increased the values in the mid tones and shoulder (leaves) of the tone curve without effecting the white point. The exposure slider being set at -.55 allowed me to retain as much of the blown highlights as possible and with the brightness slider set to +50, also maintain slightly lighter values in the trunk and leaves.
I actually believe his vid is confusing.
What scares me the most about his vid is his statement that "you dont need to look at the histogram while shooting in RAW, only concern yourself with this when shooting jpeg"
I always view the histogram, EVEN WHEN SHOOTING IN RAW
He goes on to state that you have FULL control in LR or ACR.
IMO you really dont have FULL control, but rather limited. I know it is WAY more control than a film work flow ever allowed, but not FULL.
You only have FULL control if you consider the camera and software as one tool linked together by your vision and FULL understanding of all their secrets, limitations and potential.
I am still working on that part myself
Muench Workshops
MW on Facebook
Great Idea Jim
Could save someone a lot of $$$$
Muench Workshops
MW on Facebook
Thanks,
Chris
Crescent City Prints
Facebook Fan Page
Blog
Everything I know about chromatic aberration correction I learned from Marc - so -- Yes, to evaluate for CA, you need to look at the image at 200% or 300 % in size. I usually try to look out near the corners, to see if there is a consistent pattern of CA, either Red/Green or Blue/Yellow. R/G is usually far more prominent and pervasive than Blue/Yellow. The first thing I do, is turn on Defringe to ALL and recheck the image for CA. Sometimes, Defringing is all that is needed - fast and easy. If R/G remains after setting Defringe to ALL, then I slide the slider to remove the R/G CA visually. Usually you can kill it all, sometimes you have to accept just making it a bit better. Sometimes the Blue/Yellow slider needs to be included as well.
You will find there is a bit of a learning curve to do this well - at first it seems kinds of unpredictable, but with time it gets easier and faster. Primes usually take the same settings for most images, but zooms will have more unpredictable needs depending on focal length used and distance from the sensor plane.
Regarding the Exposure and the Recovery sliders for over exposure. You can set your image so blown pixels are displayed in red, but I prefer to hold the option key down as I adjust the Exposure slider to show me the fried pixels. Generally, the Exposure slider sets the white point, and then you adjust the blackpoint with the Black slider. Then you can use the Recovery slider to help bring back the highlights after setting the exposure slider. The Recovery slider will really help correct over exposed pixels. I rarely use this sider greater than mid point, but there certainly can be exemptions to this.
Raw gives us more room to salvage over exposed images, but there are still limits. If I can't correct an image with modest use of the sliders, I tend to bin it. Yes, you can make two separate exposure from a RAW file, and then recombine them as Smart Objects in Photoshop.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
-Chris W.
SmugMug QA
My Photos
Yep, we're in Round Five. It's linked in the body of the instructions as the word "HERE", not at the bottom. The bottom ones are just the archived galleries. Sorry about the confusion!
Are your photos here? http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/8570317_wuSfN
It's also worth it for anyone who's submitted images to leave a comment with their username if it didn't automatically do it. It just makes Marc's life a little easier
Photos that don't suck / 365 / Film & Lomography
Oops!
No need to appologize for my failure to read the whole post, Schmoo... that's my fault! Thanks for pointing me to the right spot!
Curiously, the captions appear to have picked up the jpg name instead of the body copy from my email... not a big deal, I'll comment to add my user name now, just trying to say that I read part of the first post and followed the instructions!
SmugMug QA
My Photos
Thanks fot this thread.
Thanks for administering all of this. I just sent in a photo, and it didn't pick up my username or title in the caption. It's the one that just says "Lake" (which was the filename).
I tried clicking "Add Comment", but it wouldn't let me.
Username: bsclark_1
Title: Tranquility Defined
No problem and I fixed this for you! Beautiful scene and I wish I was sitting out there watching that sky right now.
If you are having trouble posting comments can you check to make sure that your browser can run JavaScript? Here's a site that will test that for you.
Good luck and hope to see you sharing more photos with us.
Photos that don't suck / 365 / Film & Lomography
I'm with you there... I'd give anything to trade this November winter for that June summer night.
I am able to run Javascript based on the test on that site.
"Out where the rivers like to run, I stand alone, and take back something worth remembering..."
Three Dog Night
www.northwestnaturalimagery.com
Hurrah, thanks Rocky and good luck!
Photos that don't suck / 365 / Film & Lomography
The text in our original post has also been massaged a bit.
Good luck!
Photos that don't suck / 365 / Film & Lomography
Cheers.
Pat
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
I too need to remember this! How in the *%$&^* do you remember all of this?
Sometimes when I wake up I can't remember where I am, who I am or why I am in hand cuffs.
Sam
Photobyhendy - Facebook - Twitter
There have been a ton of new folks to Dgrin since this thread launched. This is just a reminder to all people who love photography that our fantastic artist-in-residence, Marc, is happy to donate his expertise to help you shoot better, stronger images.
It's a great opportunity to submit your best work to the gallery for a chance at one-on-one critique.
Photos that don't suck / 365 / Film & Lomography
I'll have to look through my stuff, see if there's anything that's even CLOSE to the level of polish as what's in the galleries already!\
Edit: Yes, I found three that I've been working on recently, and those are up now in the Round 6 gallery. The username & title from the body did not get into the title, so it's still the "DSC 0045" filename that's associated with the pictures. Comments on the picture underneath for keeping track.
Neat stuff - I've been looking through this thread whenever I get a chance.
Jake
There's a lot of moving parts with different email clients so sometimes the info you drop into the body of the message may get separated. Glad it worked!
Photos that don't suck / 365 / Film & Lomography
Here's the the link to the Round Seven Gallery
Link to my Smugmug site
Link to my Smugmug site
I'm heading into the mountains for a week tomorrow, so there will be a slight delay.....
Muench Workshops
MW on Facebook
Link to my Smugmug site
Is there a way to remove an image that I thought I had already removed and replace it with another?