New Challenges!!!

135

Comments

  • mwgricemwgrice Registered Users Posts: 383 Major grins
    edited May 5, 2008
    make it a cool 100 posts and i would start trusting that type of voting....:D

    My advice is to not worry about it. The prizes are small, and do you really think judges are immune to the temptation to vote for their friends? :D
  • Lee MasseyLee Massey Registered Users Posts: 274 Major grins
    edited May 5, 2008
    Hi Emily,

    Thanks for being involved. I am just glad that new challenges are being provided. iloveyou.gif

    Thanks and good luck!

    Lee
  • TangoTango Registered Users Posts: 4,592 Major grins
    edited May 5, 2008
    and for that matter would someone with 100 posts be immune to the temptation to vote for their friends? (i dont know....)

    btw, i really dont expect to win so whatever the prizes are/were i care less....

    i guess i am just totally against public voting for something like this...
    Aaron Nelson
  • NeilLNeilL Registered Users Posts: 4,201 Major grins
    edited May 5, 2008
    and for that matter would someone with 100 posts be immune to the temptation to vote for their friends? (i dont know....)

    btw, i really dont expect to win so whatever the prizes are/were i care less....

    i guess i am just totally against public voting for something like this...

    I guess the principle here is "reasonable precautions", not absolute surety. Voting membership would certainly prevent opportunistic registrations to stack votes for an entry.
    "Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

    http://www.behance.net/brosepix
  • TangoTango Registered Users Posts: 4,592 Major grins
    edited May 5, 2008
    when it all comes down to it......

    we all grow, we have fun, and its great to do.

    imho if someone doesnt like the rules placed by the authority of the contest just dont enter, dont whine, and move along.....

    i think the original ideas of lps were just about as good as it gets when you take into account all the variables....

    as for the coming up with a genre theme, i think that great, but like newman said not 3 in a row...
    i think setting genres is a good idea, like all portraits, or all landscape, all street, etc... ...but i liked lps as it was too...

    it really does not matter to me as long as the rules are set, the people dont whine and the judging is fair and complete.
    Aaron Nelson
  • TangoTango Registered Users Posts: 4,592 Major grins
    edited May 5, 2008
    NeilL wrote:
    I guess the principle here is "reasonable precautions", not absolute surety. Voting membership would certainly prevent opportunistic registrations to stack votes for an entry.

    i agree, but still...

    in general...losing or winning from a panel of judges is better than losing or winning thanks to the circle of friends that voted....
    Aaron Nelson
  • NeilLNeilL Registered Users Posts: 4,201 Major grins
    edited May 5, 2008
    i agree, but still...

    in general...losing or winning from a panel of judges is better than losing or winning thanks to the circle of friends that voted....

    Yes, you make a good point, and that's one of the reasons why I think independent judging and two prizes - judges' and popular - is best. It generates greater chance of success and produces greater variety of response, which in your terms would be fairer.

    Neil
    "Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

    http://www.behance.net/brosepix
  • DJ-S1DJ-S1 Registered Users Posts: 2,303 Major grins
    edited May 5, 2008
    when it all comes down to it......

    we all grow, we have fun, and its great to do.
    15524779-Ti.gif This is the heart of it. This is what makes Dgrin great, and this is largely self-enforced in the forums. This cannot be allowed to change just because there are a few prizes available. deal.gif

    JMO
  • NeilLNeilL Registered Users Posts: 4,201 Major grins
    edited May 5, 2008
    DJ-S1 wrote:
    15524779-Ti.gif This is the heart of it. This is what makes Dgrin great, and this is largely self-enforced in the forums. This cannot be allowed to change just because there are a few prizes available. deal.gif

    JMO

    Yes, absolutely! thumb.gif

    BUT - how to run a contest AND ensure the "heart" of it is safeguarded?

    This is what we are discussing, and it is by no means trivial!

    Neil
    "Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

    http://www.behance.net/brosepix
  • GreensquaredGreensquared Registered Users Posts: 2,115 Major grins
    edited May 5, 2008
    Strick wrote:
    Having not participated in LPS, I was wondering why have a "feedback" in the challenges? I think that the judges giving a little about why they choose the 10 (or however many) is a good thing but to expect them to critique every photo posted by every person entered could get a little much. There are plenty of places here on Dgrin where you can post your photos to get feedback on them, I don't see a "challenge" or contest to be the best place for it.

    The guidelines for the judges was to critique their top ten, not every entry.
    Emily
    Psalm 62:5-6

  • StrickStrick Registered Users Posts: 79 Big grins
    edited May 5, 2008
    Well that would make sense then.:D
    www.zoominphoto.com
    Various pieces of Canon gear.
  • anwmn1anwmn1 Registered Users Posts: 3,469 Major grins
    edited May 5, 2008
    :deadhorse This is starting to be like the threads of old

    Can we just go ahead and post the rules -

    1. Post Process is allowed unless challenge specifically restricts it

    2. Composites are allowed as long as all photos are taken within the challenge time frame (exif for each image must be posted)

    3. No whining, sniveling, complaining, or cheating. 1st offense warning, 2nd offense 10 day suspension from dgrin, 3rd strike and you are out permanently!

    4. NO PM'S regarding the contest to moderators or judges- 1st offense- 10 day suspension- 2nd time you are out permanently

    5. Don't like the rules- don't participate


    Now- Lets SHOOT!! :D
    "The Journey of life is as much in oneself as the roads one travels"


    Aaron Newman

    Website:www.CapturingLightandEmotion.com
    Facebook: Capturing Light and Emotion
  • anwmn1anwmn1 Registered Users Posts: 3,469 Major grins
    edited May 5, 2008
    On a more positive note
    THEME IDEAS

    Dual:
    Water or Vapor
    Solid or Fluid
    Smooth or Rough
    Stillness or Restlesness
    Grounded or Elevated
    High Key or Low Key (photo technique)
    Following the rules of 3rds or Breaking the rule of 3rds


    Single:
    Motion
    Expression
    Straight out of Camera
    Out of Border (Post Process Technique)
    Framed
    Emptiness

    Just a few I thought of in the last 3 minutes- mwink.gif
    "The Journey of life is as much in oneself as the roads one travels"


    Aaron Newman

    Website:www.CapturingLightandEmotion.com
    Facebook: Capturing Light and Emotion
  • StrickStrick Registered Users Posts: 79 Big grins
    edited May 5, 2008
    anwmn1 wrote:
    :deadhorse This is starting to be like the threads of old

    Can we just go ahead and post the rules -

    1. Post Process is allowed unless challenge specifically restricts it

    2. Composites are allowed as long as all photos are taken within the challenge time frame (exif for each image must be posted)

    3. No whining, sniveling, complaining, or cheating. 1st offense warning, 2nd offense 10 day suspension from dgrin, 3rd strike and you are out permanently!

    4. NO PM'S regarding the contest to moderators or judges- 1st offense- 10 day suspension- 2nd time you are out permanently

    5. Don't like the rules- don't participate


    Now- Lets SHOOT!! :D

    I like it.......case closed.:D:D
    www.zoominphoto.com
    Various pieces of Canon gear.
  • renstarrenstar Registered Users Posts: 167 Major grins
    edited May 5, 2008
    Can we just go ahead and post the rules -

    1. Post Process is allowed unless challenge specifically restricts it

    2. Certain composites are allowed as long as all photos are taken within the challenge time frame (exif for each image must be posted) and the image isn't a total fake.

    3. Whine, snivel, complain all you want, its a public forum. If you don't like it, don't read it. But, no cheating (don't fake images.)

    4. PM'S whoever you want regarding the contest. Of course, they are also welcome to ignore you as you are to ignore them.

    5. Don't like the rules- don't participate

    See? I can just make the rules up how I'd want them to be too. You speak of beating a dead horse, but you need to get off your high horse. Greensquared posted asking us for our opinions and we are giving them, generally in a constructive way.

    If the issues keep coming up, there are obviously many people that would like the rules to work differently. Sticking your fingers in your ears and sayd "LALALALALALA" doesn't mean its not the case. People don't tend to appreciate having their opinions brushed aside as "beating a dead horse". Sure, they arn't required to participate, but maybe they want to and maybe they are taking advantage of a public forum to express their (requested) opinions.

    As to bans from dgrin.. seriously? You think the contests forum is that important? People use dgrin for other things too you know.
  • StrickStrick Registered Users Posts: 79 Big grins
    edited May 5, 2008
    renstar wrote:

    If the issues keep coming up, there are obviously many people that would like the rules to work differently. Sticking your fingers in your ears and sayd "LALALALALALA" doesn't mean its not the case. People don't tend to appreciate having their opinions brushed aside as "beating a dead horse". Sure, they arn't required to participate, but maybe they want to and maybe they are taking advantage of a public forum to express their (requested) opinions.

    As to bans from dgrin.. seriously? You think the contests forum is that important? People use dgrin for other things too you know.

    It is rules for contests that do not even need to exist. It is really simple, take a picture you think is good enough to win and submit it. If it doesn't win, it doesn't win just keep trying and maybe you will hit the right shot. I don't see how there can really be so many "issues" that would come up. It doesn't make a difference if it is judged by 1 or 1000 people, the judge/judges either like or not and that is it.

    It is supposed to be about the photography not about the politics or hurt feeling because a shot you liked didn't win.
    www.zoominphoto.com
    Various pieces of Canon gear.
  • GreensquaredGreensquared Registered Users Posts: 2,115 Major grins
    edited May 5, 2008
    All input is welcome in this thread, and we want to say a huge THANK YOU to everyone who has taken the time to express their opinion.

    Once the new contest is under way, I imagine it will have a "no complaints please" rule, but the advisory panel plans to periodically reassess and adjust things as necessary. We have all been working hard to keep up with the input on this thread and hash out ideas, so thanks again!

    This is definitely going to be fun, exciting and challenging! There are already a few special features planned that will truly make this a growth experience for all who participate. I love the idea of mixing things up and adding to the "unexpected" aspect. Personally, I can't wait!!! :D
    Emily
    Psalm 62:5-6

  • renstarrenstar Registered Users Posts: 167 Major grins
    edited May 5, 2008
    All input is welcome in this thread, and we want to say a huge THANK YOU to everyone who has taken the time to express their opinion.

    Once the new contest is under way, I imagine it will have a "no complaints please" rule, but the advisory panel plans to periodically reassess and adjust things as necessary. We have all been working hard to keep up with the input on this thread and hash out ideas, so thanks again!

    This is definitely going to be fun, exciting and challenging! There are already a few special features planned that will truly make this a growth experience for all who participate. I love the idea of mixing things up and adding to the "unexpected" aspect. Personally, I can't wait!!! :D

    Thanks so much, Greensquared. I appreciate what you are doing and am fine with no complaining, I was just frustrated by a few people deciding that certain opinions don't matter because they have been brought up in the past.

    -r
  • anwmn1anwmn1 Registered Users Posts: 3,469 Major grins
    edited May 5, 2008
    renstar wrote:
    Can we just go ahead and post the rules -

    1. Post Process is allowed unless challenge specifically restricts it

    2. Certain composites are allowed as long as all photos are taken within the challenge time frame (exif for each image must be posted) and the image isn't a total fake.

    3. Whine, snivel, complain all you want, its a public forum. If you don't like it, don't read it. But, no cheating (don't fake images.)

    4. PM'S whoever you want regarding the contest. Of course, they are also welcome to ignore you as you are to ignore them.

    5. Don't like the rules- don't participate

    See? I can just make the rules up how I'd want them to be too. You speak of beating a dead horse, but you need to get off your high horse. Greensquared posted asking us for our opinions and we are giving them, generally in a constructive way.

    If the issues keep coming up, there are obviously many people that would like the rules to work differently. Sticking your fingers in your ears and sayd "LALALALALALA" doesn't mean its not the case. People don't tend to appreciate having their opinions brushed aside as "beating a dead horse". Sure, they arn't required to participate, but maybe they want to and maybe they are taking advantage of a public forum to express their (requested) opinions.

    As to bans from dgrin.. seriously? You think the contests forum is that important? People use dgrin for other things too you know.

    Renstar-

    This was not meant to be anything that you made it out to be. It was not an attack against you or anyone else- but for those of us that have been around for a while have seen A LOT of threads like this one. Also sarcasm and humor are lost in translation on forums :D

    There is one simple fact- THERE WILL NEVER BE 100% Agreement. These threads will continue to go on and on and never stop if they are allowed to do so. Trust me- I have seen it! Notice that the mods are for the most part not involved with this thread. deal.gif

    My point is we have already lost 4 months this year because - YES - PEOPLE RUINED THE CONTEST - by complaining about the rules.

    These are not my ideal rules but the rules i feel everyone should be able to live by- we do not need to limit creativity for the entire contest- but we can have certain challenges that help even the playing field so to speak.

    I am not good with photoshop- I do not do composites- but I realize that a competition that limits them does not help push me to learn those techniques and improve my overall skills.


    My final statement and I am sticking too it!!
    Keep them simple- keep them open- have consequences for those that ruin it- but most of all - lets get on with it!!!
    "The Journey of life is as much in oneself as the roads one travels"


    Aaron Newman

    Website:www.CapturingLightandEmotion.com
    Facebook: Capturing Light and Emotion
  • TangoTango Registered Users Posts: 4,592 Major grins
    edited May 5, 2008
    k, based on suggestions ive read... i thought why not combine them with lps style format..

    each/every two week contest be unique yes.
    maybe one will have duel themes, do our best to translate our own take on it and make a photo. (just like good ol' LPS.)

    the next contest in line #2, surprise b+w only of architecture photography.

    contest #3, human portrait,

    #4 go on a hike and shot something.....("oh my" no plans! just go find something on a hike)

    #5 dual themes lps style again....

    etc...etc....

    seems simple enough:D
    Aaron Nelson
  • NeilLNeilL Registered Users Posts: 4,201 Major grins
    edited May 6, 2008
    Like renstar I think it's very bad form in some posters to bully in to this discussion dismissing it as a big bore and a waste of time, and to egotistically assert that because they have seen it all before they are above what they consider to be useless triviality, and to push their own opinions as self-evident, arrogantly requiring that we don't argue with them but accept them as the final word. To be consistent, these posters should not post at all here so as not to continue the uselessness of it all! Their later beg that they are doing it for fun and games is hardly less obnoxious.

    Well, this is brainless desperation (or laziness) in the face of history, which would lead us all to repeat its disasters. The fact is that well-reasoned NEW ideas have emerged in this thread which could be effective in preventing the rot which attacked LPS, which was caused as much by faults in its rules and management as by the often harped-on greed and bitching of members.

    Things could be improved, but some people have to let go of their prejudices.

    Of all the references related to the length of the entry period for LPS rounds that I saw during and after LPS the most characteristic comment was about its briefness - that it challenged (euphemism for uncomfortably short) or that it excluded from participation. Similar comments have appeared in this thread. Yet, this same 2 week period is being pushed again, from above and from below. Are people blind?

    Distrust of judging by judges and popular vote, is a recurring worry. Yet we are told that in the new contests there will be the grand total of 2 judges whose 2 opinions would seem to be so extraordinarily superior that they can preempt the popular vote by vetting the entries put to it. Further, because one of these 2 exalted beings is the winner of a contest, she/he could enjoy an unlimited reign over the contests. This is incredible!

    As for the popular judging, dissatisfaction has been repeatedly expressed about its validity and LPS almost ended in a scandal! But it looks like we are going into the same old troubled waters in the future.

    Greensquared, you caringly attempt to prop up morale by hints of fabulous bells and whistles to be attached to the new contests. I think though that these are like the worthless baubles for which natives exchanged their lands with colonists if the cracks in the design of the contests, exposed again here as in the LPS fallout, are ignored. If that happens then this thread is proved as useless as the posters mentioned above claim.

    No doubt I am making enemies in high places as well as low by speaking in this way. I want what you promised, that is that people's ideas would be implemented, to be real and not cynically rhetorical. I have nothing to lose from saying what I do, but others might have something to gain.

    Neil
    "Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

    http://www.behance.net/brosepix
  • StrickStrick Registered Users Posts: 79 Big grins
    edited May 6, 2008
    I was looking forward to participating in LPS2 but now I realize why it is not going to happen. Unless some memebers here don't win every month or at all they will think the challenge is faulty, rigged, biased etc...
    www.zoominphoto.com
    Various pieces of Canon gear.
  • evorywareevoryware Registered Users Posts: 1,330 Major grins
    edited May 6, 2008
    I'm sorry but the prize could be a $20 gift certificate for gas and people would still complain so lowering the ante on the prizes is just a bad idea. Now judges will stress themselves out for less. It's good to see that people say they would be satisfied with mini prizes, but there is no reason why prizes should be any smaller. Just tighten up the rules.

    I would like feedback, but after feedback is given, judges are under no obligation to respond to whiners, complainers, and incessant pm'ers.

    Don't mix public and judged voting and then after judging it's final - end of discussion.
    And preferably no public poll voting at all. I much preferred the rounds where a panel of judges picked and then critiqued the best shots. Then disappeared into anonymity.
    Canon 40D : Canon 400D : Canon Elan 7NE : Canon 580EX : 2 x Canon 430EX : Canon 24-70 f2.8L : Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L USM : Canon 28-135mm f/3.5 IS : 18-55mm f/3.5 : 4GB Sandisk Extreme III : 2GB Sandisk Extreme III : 2 x 1GB Sandisk Ultra II : Sekonik L358

    dak.smugmug.com
  • NeilLNeilL Registered Users Posts: 4,201 Major grins
    edited May 6, 2008
    evoryware wrote:
    I'm sorry but the prize could be a $20 gift certificate for gas and people would still complain so lowering the ante on the prizes is just a bad idea. Now judges will stress themselves out for less. It's good to see that people say they would be satisfied with mini prizes, but there is no reason why prizes should be any smaller. Just tighten up the rules.

    I would like feedback, but after feedback is given, judges are under no obligation to respond to whiners, complainers, and incessant pm'ers.

    Don't mix public and judged voting and then after judging it's final - end of discussion.
    And preferably no public poll voting at all. I much preferred the rounds where a panel of judges picked and then critiqued the best shots. Then disappeared into anonymity.

    Nice points, evoryware thumb.gif

    But as you know, I do like (separate) judging by judges and public poll (with restriction on voting rights). More chance to win, more feedback (from very different viewpoints), more excitement. nod.gif

    Neil
    "Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

    http://www.behance.net/brosepix
  • anwmn1anwmn1 Registered Users Posts: 3,469 Major grins
    edited May 6, 2008
    NeilL wrote:
    Like renstar I think it's very bad form in some posters to bully in to this discussion dismissing it as a big bore and a waste of time, and to egotistically assert that because they have seen it all before they are above what they consider to be useless triviality, and to push their own opinions as self-evident, arrogantly requiring that we don't argue with them but accept them as the final word. To be consistent, these posters should not post at all here so as not to continue the uselessness of it all! Their later beg that they are doing it for fun and games is hardly less obnoxious.

    Well, this is brainless desperation (or laziness) in the face of history, which would lead us all to repeat its disasters. The fact is that well-reasoned NEW ideas have emerged in this thread which could be effective in preventing the rot which attacked LPS, which was caused as much by faults in its rules and management as by the often harped-on greed and bitching of members.

    Things could be improved, but some people have to let go of their prejudices.

    Of all the references related to the length of the entry period for LPS rounds that I saw during and after LPS the most characteristic comment was about its briefness - that it challenged (euphemism for uncomfortably short) or that it excluded from participation. Similar comments have appeared in this thread. Yet, this same 2 week period is being pushed again, from above and from below. Are people blind?

    Distrust of judging by judges and popular vote, is a recurring worry. Yet we are told that in the new contests there will be the grand total of 2 judges whose 2 opinions would seem to be so extraordinarily superior that they can preempt the popular vote by vetting the entries put to it. Further, because one of these 2 exalted beings is the winner of a contest, she/he could enjoy an unlimited reign over the contests. This is incredible!

    As for the popular judging, dissatisfaction has been repeatedly expressed about its validity and LPS almost ended in a scandal! But it looks like we are going into the same old troubled waters in the future.

    Greensquared, you caringly attempt to prop up morale by hints of fabulous bells and whistles to be attached to the new contests. I think though that these are like the worthless baubles for which natives exchanged their lands with colonists if the cracks in the design of the contests, exposed again here as in the LPS fallout, are ignored. If that happens then this thread is proved as useless as the posters mentioned above claim.

    No doubt I am making enemies in high places as well as low by speaking in this way. I want what you promised, that is that people's ideas would be implemented, to be real and not cynically rhetorical. I have nothing to lose from saying what I do, but others might have something to gain.

    Neil

    Thanks for the personal attack Neil- rolleyes1.gif

    But I believe you have been the most active in this thread about shooting down others thoughts including those of Greensquared because they do not fit into YOUR 4 rules. deal.gif

    I suggest everyone read this thread and then this one . These are only 2 of many that had the same rhetoric over the past 16 months. And yes- the majority of members on this forum are tired of hearing about the same things over and over. And guess what- as people join after the new contest starts it is going to come up again and again. Just like it is now, did throughout the LPS, and the challenges that preceeded LPS.

    If you enter any other photo contest (non forum) you do not have the right to complain, question the rules, or challenge the winning photo. You have a choice to enter or not enter.

    Are you going to question National Geographics Photo Contest? How about Canon's?

    Lets stop talking in circles. Accept the fact that it will not be perfect and lets enjoy it.

    I do not care what the rules are- I am just ready to get back to what makes the forum great. Great people helping each other improve upon their photography. Anyone disagree with that desire?
    "The Journey of life is as much in oneself as the roads one travels"


    Aaron Newman

    Website:www.CapturingLightandEmotion.com
    Facebook: Capturing Light and Emotion
  • TangoTango Registered Users Posts: 4,592 Major grins
    edited May 6, 2008
    How about more monochrome challenges. I have a passion for monochromes, but rarely see any get past the initial judging. If periodic challenges had to be in monochrome I feel like I and other monochrome enthusiasts might have a better shot at actually becoming a finalist.
    So, maybe it's just a plug for my interests, ok it is... hehe. But, I never feel like I can have a shot because everyone only wants color. I love color, but have a true passion for monochromes. Hence, I don't ever feel like I have a shot at being seriously considered.

    i second this.
    even though i have no idea how to do monochrome....
    i know where to find help. Dgrin
    Aaron Nelson
  • TangoTango Registered Users Posts: 4,592 Major grins
    edited May 6, 2008
    anwmn1 wrote:

    1. Post Process is allowed unless challenge specifically restricts it

    i second this.

    it would be cool if one of the contests were straight out of camera.
    zero post processing....so shoot in jpeg....
    wow....
    Aaron Nelson
  • TangoTango Registered Users Posts: 4,592 Major grins
    edited May 6, 2008
    NeilL wrote:
    Yes, you make a good point, and that's one of the reasons why I think independent judging and two prizes - judges' and popular - is best. It generates greater chance of success and produces greater variety of response, which in your terms would be fairer.

    Neil

    i agree that would be good to see.
    Aaron Nelson
  • TangoTango Registered Users Posts: 4,592 Major grins
    edited May 6, 2008
    evoryware wrote:
    I much preferred the rounds where a panel of judges picked and then critiqued the best shots. Then disappeared into anonymity.

    i liked that also....
    i was fine wilth losing on the fact these people didnt care for my shots...

    even though i was not even close to getting into the finials i had a problem with people getting votes from all their lobbing and campaining....
    i know this happend. weather or not it affected the finial outcome i have no idea....but see that is what bothers me....
    Aaron Nelson
  • TangoTango Registered Users Posts: 4,592 Major grins
    edited May 6, 2008
    NeilL wrote:
    Distrust of judging by judges and popular vote, is a recurring worry. Yet we are told that in the new contests there will be the grand total of 2 judges whose 2 opinions would seem to be so extraordinarily superior that they can preempt the popular vote by vetting the entries put to it. Further, because one of these 2 exalted beings is the winner of a contest, she/he could enjoy an unlimited reign over the contests. This is incredible!.

    Neil

    that is a problem, (especially if they dont like a specific type of photography or genre or whatever)
    Aaron Nelson
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