Depending on what you shoot.
People - not so much, landscapes - often, architecture/real estate - extremely. If I didn't have one already I'd jump on this one...
I know a few dgrinners who seem to have permanently attached it to their cameras (Hi Jack )
In the DSS #11 Feedback thread, Emily expressed an interest in seeing the community become more involved in providing critiques of the entries. I agree with her observation that giving and receiving feedback is an important part of these Challenges. So I thought I would try to open up a discussion about ways we might better accomplish this.
The feedback threads have generally evolved into people listing their top selections from the entries. This approach is valuable in that it highlights images that are broadly appealing within the confines of the Challenge rules. It also provides a welcome ego boost to those whose images were selected--who doesn't like to hear that someone liked their image!
Of course, those entrants who don't receive this type of feedback could be left wondering why their image didn't have the impact to be selected as someone's favorite. What could be done to improve the quality of the image or make sure it better expresses the theme? This is where broader critique could be helpful. I'm not suggesting we recreate the Whipping Post here. Just guidance and encouragement to those who are seeking to improve their work through participation in these Challenges.
Some impediments to broader critique could be:
1. reluctance to appear judgmental (especially if you don't fully trust your judgment against the judgment of people who appear more experienced or skillfull than you.)
2. Time. Some participants have tried in past challenges to provide critiques on every entry. This is a huge undertaking. I tried it for one Challenge. While the exercise was instructive, it was impossible to keep doing. Besides, it's not always evident that everyone is looking for a critique of their image, thank you very much.
So how could we as a community provide valuable critique to those who might be seeking it? Is it is as simple as just encouraging those who are looking for feedback to pose the question? Any thoughts?
And, of course, if I'm barking up the wrong tree, I'm sure you'll tell me.
Speaking for myself - as a relative newcomer both to photography, and to the dgrin community - I know that I'm reluctant to offer anything other than positive comment after the selections have been to avoid seeming ilke a poor sportsman if I'm responding regarding an image that was chosen when my own wasn't! In almost all cases I know exactly why I did or didn't select one image over another in my own favorites list and, while my reasons may not match another's, I like to think I could "justify" my choices according to my own parameters if I was asked to do so (the very occasional photo falls into the "I don't know why, but I do know I love it" category, but with most my choices are more conscious than that!)
As is obvious from the wide number of entries which are included in folks' favorites selections (and often how different the community's choices are from the two judges'), one man's "yes" is another's "no", so I would hope that people don't take it personally, but then again - this is an artistic endeavour, and we all know how much a part of us the "artistic process" can make the end image that we produce!
My entire life revolves around (hopefully constructive!) criticism, both as a voice teacher and a singer; for this reason, I suspect I deal with it all a little differently since it is so much a part of each and everything I do - I accept that others may find it a little more intimidating than I do! But I say.... bring it on. As long as the commentary is *constructive* and designed to help us grow (or at least hear a reasoned point of view even if does not match our own) I see no reason why not. It's how we learn, surely?
As you suggest, perhaps those who wish feedback could post it afterwards as well as before (since, as you say, it's not REALLY practical for everybody to comment on everything....) Or perhaps people could comment more in depth on their favorites and the "near misses" that almost wind up in their picks? I sometimes find those the most interesting pictures, the ones that are soooo close to being winners but for one reason or another don't *quite* make it into the top 10...
Anyway, just rambling musings written in haste between students. Thanks again for opening up a great topic, Halite.
I like your assessment Halite and your recommendation. I think people who would like coaching/feedback should ask. Personally, I have asked Emily for feedback a couple of times. She is very very helpful (Sorry Emily if this results in you becoming even more swamped). I do think it's a good idea for us to all pitch in and provide coaching to those who really want it. I know I do.
I've been trying to think how we can make this possible. I am going to attempt something this round, which may or may not be practical as far as my time goes. I'm going to give it a try though.
What I'm going to do is, instead of feedback going in a thread, I will post a link to a gallery with all of the entries in it. This way, everyone can flip through the images, leaving their comments. How does this sound? It will be super easy to read, and comments can be added over time even, without cluttering up a thread.
Most of the time invested will be in populating the gallery, so if I can find a fairly quick way to do it, it might actually fly.
What a great idea, Emily! As long as it isn't going to require you to upload it all manually (which in some of the larger rounds could be more than tedious!!). It wouldn't work this time out, but I wonder if there's a way of setting up a "central repository" for images, so it would cut out the middle man? If you want to enter an image, you upload to the designated place and then link to it from there? (This may, of course, prove even more complicated, time consuming or for that matter costly, but just brainstorming!)
Thanks again for the work that goes into this - I haven't been around long, but dgrin and the challenges have become a real part of life in our house, and I'm so grateful for the chance to learn from this community!
I've been trying to think how we can make this possible. I am going to attempt something this round, which may or may not be practical as far as my time goes. I'm going to give it a try though.
What I'm going to do is, instead of feedback going in a thread, I will post a link to a gallery with all of the entries in it. This way, everyone can flip through the images, leaving their comments. How does this sound? It will be super easy to read, and comments can be added over time even, without cluttering up a thread.
Most of the time invested will be in populating the gallery, so if I can find a fairly quick way to do it, it might actually fly.
I've been trying to think how we can make this possible. I am going to attempt something this round, which may or may not be practical as far as my time goes. I'm going to give it a try though.
What I'm going to do is, instead of feedback going in a thread, I will post a link to a gallery with all of the entries in it. This way, everyone can flip through the images, leaving their comments. How does this sound? It will be super easy to read, and comments can be added over time even, without cluttering up a thread.
Most of the time invested will be in populating the gallery, so if I can find a fairly quick way to do it, it might actually fly.
Emily, That's a great idea. It will allow us all to give and receive feedback from all of us. Though I wonder if participants would still like to know why their picture was or wasn't selected by the judges?
I'll happily volunteer time to help you out with copying the image if you would like.
I've been trying to think how we can make this possible. I am going to attempt something this round, which may or may not be practical as far as my time goes. I'm going to give it a try though.
What I'm going to do is, instead of feedback going in a thread, I will post a link to a gallery with all of the entries in it. This way, everyone can flip through the images, leaving their comments. How does this sound? It will be super easy to read, and comments can be added over time even, without cluttering up a thread.
Most of the time invested will be in populating the gallery, so if I can find a fairly quick way to do it, it might actually fly.
An elegant solution. Hope it doesn't create a time issue for you. Thanks for continuing to improve these Challenges
Emily, That's a great idea. It will allow us all to give and receive feedback from all of us. Though I wonder if participants would still like to know why their picture was or wasn't selected by the judges?
I'll happily volunteer time to help you out with copying the image if you would like.
Keep the good ideas coming. cheers/Peter
Judges' critiques will still apply for their chosen top ten, but it will be posted in the gallery. I'm hoping this will make it easier for me to do full feedback whenever time permits.
I like this idea. I did sort of think that we were critiqueing (sp) each other during the run up to deadline. However, if you do go in this direction, I would volunteer to do the gallery one week. (Or more)
Thank you for continuing to try to improve on what we have here.
To save you time, why don't you just have us upload our images to both the entry thread and the latest challenge gallery? That might save you some time with copying and pasting, right? But I may be missing something.
Thanks for the work!
More Photography . . . Less Photoshop [. . . except when I do it] Jeff Meyers
I've been trying to think how we can make this possible. I am going to attempt something this round, which may or may not be practical as far as my time goes. I'm going to give it a try though.
What I'm going to do is, instead of feedback going in a thread, I will post a link to a gallery with all of the entries in it. This way, everyone can flip through the images, leaving their comments. How does this sound? It will be super easy to read, and comments can be added over time even, without cluttering up a thread.
Most of the time invested will be in populating the gallery, so if I can find a fairly quick way to do it, it might actually fly.
yep, a wrong date, (the camera i used resets the date between battery changes and i did not know that until tonight looking at my exif...) should i look forward to a dq?
(you can ask about my camera issue at the moment, but its a long story)
yep, a wrong date, (the camera i used resets the date between battery changes and i did not know that until tonight looking at my exif...) should i look forward to a dq?
(you can ask about my camera issue at the moment, but its a long story)
Hey Aaron,
You've got killer Canon and Nikon equipment and you're shooting with a Fuji Finepix that resets a date on you? What's up with that? And I'm supposed to take pity on you? HA!
Actually, it's my general ruling that anyone who confesses to user error/camera screwup prior to the close of a round and then sticks a reminder in the entry thread for me...I'll allow it. I figure anyone willing to push themselves further into the "Digital Sometimes-Sharp-But-Occasionally-Not Shooters" club, should be given the benefit of the doubt.
now for the fuji?
what can i say im going back to my roots from the P&S time in my life but for a small duration of time....
and let me tell you that little bugger is a pretty darn good camera for the conditions we were in....(FLORESCENT!)
I dunno Aaron - THIS is what we can expect from winners of the MC? Sheesh rofl (actually, I KNOW you're just doing this to make the rest of us feel better. My new xsi pulled a date trick on me that I only spotted when I went to post the EXIF for #13 - it only uses a 24hr clock and because I set it at night without realising that, I was running 12 hrs behind myself. Duhhhhhh)
And I'm with Emily - to all US forumites, Happy Thanksgiving. I'm certainly grateful for having found this place! wave
I I KNOW you're just doing this to make the rest of us feel better.
trust me, im doing everything i can to win just like everyone else... ...
i just had a small overlook with my equipment....and btw, i might have other equipment, but i still try my best to be able to produce a great shot no mater what is in my hands....wish me luck, ive been in a slump....
Comments
http://gadget.brando.com.hk/prod_detail.php?prod_id=00695
pyroPrints.com/5819572 The Photo Section
Yes, but is it useful?
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Facebook Fan Page
People - not so much, landscapes - often, architecture/real estate - extremely. If I didn't have one already I'd jump on this one...
I know a few dgrinners who seem to have permanently attached it to their cameras (Hi Jack
The feedback threads have generally evolved into people listing their top selections from the entries. This approach is valuable in that it highlights images that are broadly appealing within the confines of the Challenge rules. It also provides a welcome ego boost to those whose images were selected--who doesn't like to hear that someone liked their image!
Of course, those entrants who don't receive this type of feedback could be left wondering why their image didn't have the impact to be selected as someone's favorite. What could be done to improve the quality of the image or make sure it better expresses the theme? This is where broader critique could be helpful. I'm not suggesting we recreate the Whipping Post here. Just guidance and encouragement to those who are seeking to improve their work through participation in these Challenges.
Some impediments to broader critique could be:
1. reluctance to appear judgmental (especially if you don't fully trust your judgment against the judgment of people who appear more experienced or skillfull than you.)
2. Time. Some participants have tried in past challenges to provide critiques on every entry. This is a huge undertaking. I tried it for one Challenge. While the exercise was instructive, it was impossible to keep doing. Besides, it's not always evident that everyone is looking for a critique of their image, thank you very much.
So how could we as a community provide valuable critique to those who might be seeking it? Is it is as simple as just encouraging those who are looking for feedback to pose the question? Any thoughts?
And, of course, if I'm barking up the wrong tree, I'm sure you'll tell me.
Speaking for myself - as a relative newcomer both to photography, and to the dgrin community - I know that I'm reluctant to offer anything other than positive comment after the selections have been to avoid seeming ilke a poor sportsman if I'm responding regarding an image that was chosen when my own wasn't! In almost all cases I know exactly why I did or didn't select one image over another in my own favorites list and, while my reasons may not match another's, I like to think I could "justify" my choices according to my own parameters if I was asked to do so
As is obvious from the wide number of entries which are included in folks' favorites selections (and often how different the community's choices are from the two judges'), one man's "yes" is another's "no", so I would hope that people don't take it personally, but then again - this is an artistic endeavour, and we all know how much a part of us the "artistic process" can make the end image that we produce!
My entire life revolves around (hopefully constructive!) criticism, both as a voice teacher and a singer; for this reason, I suspect I deal with it all a little differently since it is so much a part of each and everything I do - I accept that others may find it a little more intimidating than I do! But I say.... bring it on. As long as the commentary is *constructive* and designed to help us grow (or at least hear a reasoned point of view even if does not match our own) I see no reason why not. It's how we learn, surely?
As you suggest, perhaps those who wish feedback could post it afterwards as well as before (since, as you say, it's not REALLY practical for everybody to comment on everything....) Or perhaps people could comment more in depth on their favorites and the "near misses" that almost wind up in their picks? I sometimes find those the most interesting pictures, the ones that are soooo close to being winners but for one reason or another don't *quite* make it into the top 10...
Anyway, just rambling musings written in haste between students. Thanks again for opening up a great topic, Halite.
Dan
http://danielplumer.com/
Facebook Fan Page
I've been trying to think how we can make this possible. I am going to attempt something this round, which may or may not be practical as far as my time goes. I'm going to give it a try though.
What I'm going to do is, instead of feedback going in a thread, I will post a link to a gallery with all of the entries in it. This way, everyone can flip through the images, leaving their comments. How does this sound? It will be super easy to read, and comments can be added over time even, without cluttering up a thread.
Most of the time invested will be in populating the gallery, so if I can find a fairly quick way to do it, it might actually fly.
Thanks again for the work that goes into this - I haven't been around long, but dgrin and the challenges have become a real part of life in our house, and I'm so grateful for the chance to learn from this community!
http://danielplumer.com/
Facebook Fan Page
Emily, That's a great idea. It will allow us all to give and receive feedback from all of us. Though I wonder if participants would still like to know why their picture was or wasn't selected by the judges?
I'll happily volunteer time to help you out with copying the image if you would like.
Keep the good ideas coming. cheers/Peter
My images | My blog | My free course
An elegant solution. Hope it doesn't create a time issue for you. Thanks for continuing to improve these Challenges
Judges' critiques will still apply for their chosen top ten, but it will be posted in the gallery. I'm hoping this will make it easier for me to do full feedback whenever time permits.
http://pyryekholm.kuvat.fi/
Thank you for continuing to try to improve on what we have here.
— Kevin
My Site, My Book
To save you time, why don't you just have us upload our images to both the entry thread and the latest challenge gallery? That might save you some time with copying and pasting, right? But I may be missing something.
Thanks for the work!
Jeff Meyers
what if someone only wants to hear nice things:D
-Fleetwood Mac
...the curate's?
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
My images | My blog | My free course
http://danielplumer.com/
Facebook Fan Page
Ive read, but this issue i dont think was covered other than no exif = dq,
here is my Exif from last nights shoot....
EXIF
yep, a wrong date, (the camera i used resets the date between battery changes and i did not know that until tonight looking at my exif...) should i look forward to a dq?
(you can ask about my camera issue at the moment, but its a long story)
Hey Aaron,
You've got killer Canon and Nikon equipment and you're shooting with a Fuji Finepix that resets a date on you? What's up with that? And I'm supposed to take pity on you? HA!
Actually, it's my general ruling that anyone who confesses to user error/camera screwup prior to the close of a round and then sticks a reminder in the entry thread for me...I'll allow it. I figure anyone willing to push themselves further into the "Digital Sometimes-Sharp-But-Occasionally-Not Shooters" club, should be given the benefit of the doubt.
now for the fuji?
what can i say im going back to my roots from the P&S time in my life but for a small duration of time....
and let me tell you that little bugger is a pretty darn good camera for the conditions we were in....(FLORESCENT!)
enjoy! i hope you save us some pumpkin pie
I dunno Aaron - THIS is what we can expect from winners of the MC? Sheesh
And I'm with Emily - to all US forumites, Happy Thanksgiving. I'm certainly grateful for having found this place!
Now, back to cooking....
trust me, im doing everything i can to win just like everyone else...
i just had a small overlook with my equipment....and btw, i might have other equipment, but i still try my best to be able to produce a great shot no mater what is in my hands....wish me luck, ive been in a slump....
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth." — Mark Twain