I sell photos from events that have been online for years. In fact I just sold several from a December 2007 dance show today!
I think limiting the viewing time and then charging a "put back" fee would kill all of those sales, and quite probably piss off a large number of customers.
YMMV.
And some people just like to put things off. Sometimes, you just have to give them a little "kick" to get them moving.
Not sure where you're counting from. I think it's been over 30 months since I first started waiting -- and I seem to remember a couple of folks were in the process of leaving SM even then, due to the long wait.
Coupons are a complex item for a share site to implement. Perhaps too much to expect. But, to be fair, Smug's primary focus has always been on the share part of the business. My guess is the folks up top see little reason to change.
My two cents? SM is probably the very best U.S.-based share site available today. It's fast, it's pretty, it's reliable, and it provides good product, at a good price, quickly (if you are a U.S.-based consumer).
But if you want a business front-end, I say go elsewhere. A LOT more than coupons is missing to make SM a truly useful business-to-business service. And it seems SM's will to proceed in that direction is tepid at most.
My guess is the folks up top see little reason to change.
You're wrong, dead wrong. And I've rebutted you on this before, and will continue to do so.
We're making coupons. We're making packages. Right now, as we speak. No amount of beating us up can make it go any faster, xris and I'm sorry that you feel the way you do
You're wrong, dead wrong. And I've rebutted you on this before, and will continue to do so.
But actual evidence says otherwise.
How many new features have been introduced since this thread was started?
By his own admission Baldy put Bay Photo ahead of coupons/packages despite the multi-year hue and cry for them. Use whatever reason (he thought it would be "easy") you want, it shows a pattern.
We're making coupons. We're making packages. Right now, as we speak. No amount of beating us up can make it go any faster, xris and I'm sorry that you feel the way you do
Yes, we know you're working on them. And a full time programmer is a great way to accomplish that goal.
However, I can't help but think if some of the man hours that had been spent elsewhere (new uploader, easy customizer, etc) couldn't have been used to get this done in less than the 14 months since this thread started.
I've even stopped harping (for now) about the iphone backdoor, even though that would be at most a five minute fix, because I want coupons ASAP.
Few people are naive enough to believe that two programmers work twice as fast as one.
But the simple fact is that two programmers do indeed work faster than one.
How many new features have been introduced since this thread was started?
By his own admission Baldy put Bay Photo ahead of coupons/packages despite the multi-year hue and cry for them. Use whatever reason (he thought it would be "easy") you want, it shows a pattern.
Yes, we know you're working on them. And a full time programmer is a great way to accomplish that goal.
However, I can't help but think if some of the man hours that had been spent elsewhere (new uploader, easy customizer, etc) couldn't have been used to get this done in less than the 14 months since this thread started.
I've even stopped harping (for now) about the iphone backdoor, even though that would be at most a five minute fix, because I want coupons ASAP.
Few people are naive enough to believe that two programmers work twice as fast as one.
But the simple fact is that two programmers do indeed work faster than one.
It's cool, we can make this a game of armchair software development
We're getting back to coupons (said work I was doing at 7am this morning, it's just as important to me as it is to you guys).
It's cool, we can make this a game of armchair software development
We're getting back to coupons (said work I was doing at 7am this morning, it's just as important to me as it is to you guys).
Andy,
I know you have your work cut out for you. It has got to be a complex task to add all the components people want and to make sure things do not blow up at the same time.
The following is more for others to stop and think about the possible situations. The last thing any of us wants is a botched coupon feature which causes us to loose money.
1. Discount Coupons as a percentage - What to do if a discount is set to go below print cost? Most items will have greater margins in the smaller items. For example a 4x6 will have many hundreds of times of a markup. But larger items may have say a 5% markup. If the coupon is a 10% discount sending the purchase price below the print cost, what is to be done? Does the coupon just not work? Does the photographer pay the difference to make up the price? Or should a coupon be set not to allow the purchase price to drop below the print cost?
2. Dollar amount coupon - Many of us want a dollar amount to give to clients. Who is going to pay for the printing cost on the order? If the photographer pays for the printing, how is Smug Mug to handle the transaction? Does the photographer pay Smug Mug ahead of time by adding the money into their account if the account does not currently have the funds? What happens if Smug Mug sends the photographer a check putting the account back to $0.00 then the customer try's to make an order?
3. One time use coupon or limited number of use coupon - the dollar amount coupon most likely needs to be a one time use. Perhaps a pass code needs to go along with this so other people do not use it.
4. Tracking - I am sure we all want to see who used the coupon and when.
5. Coupon limited to certain galleries and certain products - Think pricing is a lot to set up, adding coupons to this can make it more difficult, especially if there are global coupons to apply to all galleries.
6. Coupon expiration - need just a general expiration date.
7. Multiple coupons - If there is a global coupon for any gallery and another coupon limited to one gallery, can both be combined?
8. I am sure there are other features people want that I have not mentioned.
With the type of work I do, I do feel a coupon with expiration dates on particular galleries limited to certain print sizes can increase my sales so my potential customers will not wait to order. When they wait, they really wait to the point they do not order.
I have tried to work around this by informing them prices on each gallery has been discounted for X days and after that, the price will return to normal. As it is now, I have to go in and change the pricing.
While this provides the effect of a coupon, there is just something about seeing the normal price reduced with a coupon at check out that gives people a feel good warmth that they saved money by purchasing now.
Now Andy, with all that said, we have waited long enough on coupons. I know as complex of a task this is, programming such as feature should not be a 12 month or more job and not to have one thing to show for it.
Just a small subset of full coupon feature should be a rather simple innovation. A coupon field on the price setup screen for the gallery should be simple enough. It would give us the ability to check which items are available with the coupon and see if the margins as so low we do not want the coupon to apply. At least this would be a start.
2. Dollar amount coupon - Many of us want a dollar amount to give to clients. Who is going to pay for the printing cost on the order?
- we call these 'Credit' Coupons. Since the typical use case is that you have rolled the cost of this into the price you quoted your clients (hire me for $2000 and get $200 in prints), we will charge your credit card when the credits are used.
Thanks bigwebguy! That's the kind of information I've been looking for. I don't usually change my packages mid-year, so I'll be changing my packages for 2010. I'd like to include print credits for the upcoming year. Can you give a nod, wink, smile, or hint? We're getting impatient out here, but we know you're working your tail off. Now get back to work!
- we will charge the photographers credit card
- we call these 'Credit' Coupons. Since the typical use case is that you have rolled the cost of this into the price you quoted your clients (hire me for $2000 and get $200 in prints), we will charge your credit card when the credits are used.
In that scenario, when we give away $200 in prints, and you charge us for them, we are only paying the actual cost of printing them (i.e. as if we had ordered them at cost), right? I am pretty sure, just wanted to make absolutely sure ( ). Trying to work out how to use the coupons and looking forward to them!
In that scenario, when we give away $200 in prints, and you charge us for them, we are only paying the actual cost of printing them (i.e. as if we had ordered them at cost), right? I am pretty sure, just wanted to make absolutely sure ( ). Trying to work out how to use the coupons and looking forward to them!
Yes. We, the SmugMug Pros, would only be paying the cost of the prints (and possibly shipping, depending on whether that will be effected by coupons).
- we will charge the photographers credit card
- we call these 'Credit' Coupons. Since the typical use case is that you have rolled the cost of this into the price you quoted your clients (hire me for $2000 and get $200 in prints), we will charge your credit card when the credits are used.
- yes
- limited at first, but we plan on more robust tracking
- not for the initial release
- yes
- only one coupon per photographer in checkout
With that kind of answer, it must be close. We got a peek at the UI a couple months ago.
School sports is about upon us, followed by holidays.
Please get this thing out soon. Our business depends on it, which just follows that yours does too. We've supported you with our fees, our business, our loyalty. If you can't get full feature out, at least roll out a barebones (%-age off or dollar) coupon feature.
This thread is way more than a year old, which means that lots of us have renewed, based on promises.
Our promise to you was in $$$. How about coming through now? You may want spectacular...at this point, we just want functional.
The NYC SMUG is tonight. While Andy won't be there, I'm going to try to figure out some info about the new SM Pro service. As you mentioned, the fall season is the beginning of a lot of business for sports, portrait, event, and all kinds of other shooters. Summer is a dead period, and the end of August or early September would be a perfect time to release all the new features. Come on SM: my birthday is August 28th. Give me the new SmugMug Pro as a present!
A photo pass is a coupon that gives your customer a credit for a set number of prints in your online store. You pay for the cost of the products in advance, we provide the coupon numbers, and then you sell the coupons to your customers at your retail price. This saves the previewing until your customers are at home on their computer instead of on site previewing. Better still, it invites additional sales when they see all of the images and products that you offer!
-Jack
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
I'm the guy that sees every dollar coming in. And I can tell you, the summer is not dead.
Andy, you are a nice guy...you've been very helpful to me and others, but...
Why don't you quit throwing up rebuttals against everything that someone says on here and admit that SM has fallen down dreadfully on this issue? Set a release date, announce it so we can start making marketing plans, then work around the clock to get the bugs out so you can meet the release date. Better marketing tools means more sales which equates to a h**l of a lot more money for SM, which, after all, is what you are wanting.
With all the other, less desirable photo sites out there having coupon/package features, it really can't be that hard for competent programmers to execute. The rest of SM is quite competently done. But was the EZ customizer that necessary of a business tool, compared to a sales and marketing feature like coupons and packages? I don't think you would find many of your pro customers that would say so. I don't know how many pro customers SM has, but i'd venture it in the thousands. And at $150 a year each, that's a chunk of change that should be spent supporting what pros need to do business.
Set a release date, announce it so we can start making marketing plans, then work around the clock to get the bugs out so you can meet the release date.
I agree. Set a date so we have some idea when this is going to happen.
Andy, you are a nice guy...you've been very helpful to me and others, but...
Why don't you quit throwing up rebuttals against everything that someone says on here and admit that SM has fallen down dreadfully on this issue?
Is it later than we hoped? Yes. Fallen down? That would mean we're not pouring our heart and soul into it. Thanks for posting, I really mean it. It's customers like you who care so much that keep us going, and really do appreciate how important this feature is to you. Coupons will come out. I'm sorry I don't have an exact date, I'm terribly sorry. We will release coupons, I can promise that.
And you simply can't equate Easy Customizer, or any other feature, to Coupons, as we have different Sorcerers on different jobs.
A photo pass is a coupon that gives your customer a credit for a set number of prints in your online store. You pay for the cost of the products in advance, we provide the coupon numbers, and then you sell the coupons to your customers at your retail price. This saves the previewing until your customers are at home on their computer instead of on site previewing. Better still, it invites additional sales when they see all of the images and products that you offer!
Are they serious?
If you have a credit card on file why would you need to pay for (unsold) product up front?
Issue coupon codes and charge me as they are redeemed.
Fortunately SM seems to have that detail figured out.
I'm not a Pro, and maybe I'm crazy. But I think SM has done a phenomenal job at rolling out new features - especially considering they're such a small, family-oriented company. I know you "Pros" can be demanding, since you're paying a higher price, and "need" certain features... But seriously - $150/yr to have a fantastic looking, extremely reliable e-commerce website, all for yourself? That's a smokin deal. You gotta remember too, just because you pay more for more features, doesn't mean that me - the "average user who wants to store pictures for his family" is any less important when it comes to rolling out new features.
Kudos to SM! You do a great job of taking care of ALL of your users. Keep up the good work!
I'm not a Pro, and maybe I'm crazy. But I think SM has done a phenomenal job at rolling out new features - especially considering they're such a small, family-oriented company. I know you "Pros" can be demanding, since you're paying a higher price, and "need" certain features... But seriously - $150/yr to have a fantastic looking, extremely reliable e-commerce website, all for yourself? That's a smokin deal. You gotta remember too, just because you pay more for more features, doesn't mean that me - the "average user who wants to store pictures for his family" is any less important when it comes to rolling out new features.
Kudos to SM! You do a great job of taking care of ALL of your users. Keep up the good work!
We all know the average user like you is more important. $150/yr is absolutely a good price. Not any different than any other similar service, but definitely worth it.
Until you start earning money with your photos, you won't understand how important coupons and packages is to a pro. I would pay $300/yr without blinking if it meant I had coupons and packages vs. not having them at $150/yr.
I understand that SmugMug has a difficult job in balancing the needs of a consumer and a professional. You do need to understand though that for you, your photos are a hobby and a fun activity. For a pro, not having coupons/print credit hurts the business. I know for a fact that I lost hundreds of dollars this spring alone by not offering coupons. Again, I'm not saying that SmugMug shouldn't make its consumer end strong as well and release new features. All I'm saying is that there's way more at stake for a pro than there is for you.
While SM does take care of all its users needs, the pros have many more needs and we pay more to have them addressed.
All I'm saying is that there's way more at stake for a pro than there is for you.
But what's at stake for SmugMug? Losing 100,000 "consumers", would be a lot worse than losing 1,000 pros. Yes - I made those numbers up. But, in the end, SmugMug is a business, they have to focus on ALL of their customers. When you pay for more "features" for your brick & mortar gallery, you pay more rent. At SmugMug, the rent doesn't seem to be going up - but Pros keep asking for more and more features.
Yes - I understand they'd help your business. And apparently, I don't understand "business" since I'm a "hobbyist"... But as Andy has said many times, there are sorcerers assigned. They're working on it. If you want it faster, I'd bet they'll have to increase the rent.
All's I'm saying - Give Andy and the rest of the SM staff a break. They've more than outdone what most would think capable from such a small staff.
Comments
And some people just like to put things off. Sometimes, you just have to give them a little "kick" to get them moving.
Neal Jacob
[URL="http://nealjacob.com/twitter"]Twitter[/URL]|[B][URL="http://photos.nealjacob.com"]SmugMug[/URL][/B
Which is why a coupon system is desperately needed.
Entice them to buy rather than threaten them that the opportunity will be short lived.
http://www.knippixels.com
Not sure where you're counting from. I think it's been over 30 months since I first started waiting -- and I seem to remember a couple of folks were in the process of leaving SM even then, due to the long wait.
Coupons are a complex item for a share site to implement. Perhaps too much to expect. But, to be fair, Smug's primary focus has always been on the share part of the business. My guess is the folks up top see little reason to change.
My two cents? SM is probably the very best U.S.-based share site available today. It's fast, it's pretty, it's reliable, and it provides good product, at a good price, quickly (if you are a U.S.-based consumer).
But if you want a business front-end, I say go elsewhere. A LOT more than coupons is missing to make SM a truly useful business-to-business service. And it seems SM's will to proceed in that direction is tepid at most.
Yes, yes, yes... I like.
Can you give us a status as to where SM is on the coupon issue?
Thanks!
Canon 7D & 20D;
You're wrong, dead wrong. And I've rebutted you on this before, and will continue to do so.
We're making coupons. We're making packages. Right now, as we speak. No amount of beating us up can make it go any faster, xris and I'm sorry that you feel the way you do
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
How many new features have been introduced since this thread was started?
By his own admission Baldy put Bay Photo ahead of coupons/packages despite the multi-year hue and cry for them. Use whatever reason (he thought it would be "easy") you want, it shows a pattern.
Yes, we know you're working on them. And a full time programmer is a great way to accomplish that goal.
However, I can't help but think if some of the man hours that had been spent elsewhere (new uploader, easy customizer, etc) couldn't have been used to get this done in less than the 14 months since this thread started.
I've even stopped harping (for now) about the iphone backdoor, even though that would be at most a five minute fix, because I want coupons ASAP.
Few people are naive enough to believe that two programmers work twice as fast as one.
But the simple fact is that two programmers do indeed work faster than one.
We're getting back to coupons (said work I was doing at 7am this morning, it's just as important to me as it is to you guys).
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
I know you have your work cut out for you. It has got to be a complex task to add all the components people want and to make sure things do not blow up at the same time.
The following is more for others to stop and think about the possible situations. The last thing any of us wants is a botched coupon feature which causes us to loose money.
1. Discount Coupons as a percentage - What to do if a discount is set to go below print cost? Most items will have greater margins in the smaller items. For example a 4x6 will have many hundreds of times of a markup. But larger items may have say a 5% markup. If the coupon is a 10% discount sending the purchase price below the print cost, what is to be done? Does the coupon just not work? Does the photographer pay the difference to make up the price? Or should a coupon be set not to allow the purchase price to drop below the print cost?
2. Dollar amount coupon - Many of us want a dollar amount to give to clients. Who is going to pay for the printing cost on the order? If the photographer pays for the printing, how is Smug Mug to handle the transaction? Does the photographer pay Smug Mug ahead of time by adding the money into their account if the account does not currently have the funds? What happens if Smug Mug sends the photographer a check putting the account back to $0.00 then the customer try's to make an order?
3. One time use coupon or limited number of use coupon - the dollar amount coupon most likely needs to be a one time use. Perhaps a pass code needs to go along with this so other people do not use it.
4. Tracking - I am sure we all want to see who used the coupon and when.
5. Coupon limited to certain galleries and certain products - Think pricing is a lot to set up, adding coupons to this can make it more difficult, especially if there are global coupons to apply to all galleries.
6. Coupon expiration - need just a general expiration date.
7. Multiple coupons - If there is a global coupon for any gallery and another coupon limited to one gallery, can both be combined?
8. I am sure there are other features people want that I have not mentioned.
With the type of work I do, I do feel a coupon with expiration dates on particular galleries limited to certain print sizes can increase my sales so my potential customers will not wait to order. When they wait, they really wait to the point they do not order.
I have tried to work around this by informing them prices on each gallery has been discounted for X days and after that, the price will return to normal. As it is now, I have to go in and change the pricing.
While this provides the effect of a coupon, there is just something about seeing the normal price reduced with a coupon at check out that gives people a feel good warmth that they saved money by purchasing now.
Now Andy, with all that said, we have waited long enough on coupons. I know as complex of a task this is, programming such as feature should not be a 12 month or more job and not to have one thing to show for it.
Just a small subset of full coupon feature should be a rather simple innovation. A coupon field on the price setup screen for the gallery should be simple enough. It would give us the ability to check which items are available with the coupon and see if the margins as so low we do not want the coupon to apply. At least this would be a start.
So please give us something soon as an appetizer.
Thank you,
David Moon
In that scenario, when we give away $200 in prints, and you charge us for them, we are only paying the actual cost of printing them (i.e. as if we had ordered them at cost), right? I am pretty sure, just wanted to make absolutely sure (
Yes. We, the SmugMug Pros, would only be paying the cost of the prints (and possibly shipping, depending on whether that will be effected by coupons).
Save $5 on a new Smugmug Membership
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With that kind of answer, it must be close. We got a peek at the UI a couple months ago.
School sports is about upon us, followed by holidays.
Please get this thing out soon. Our business depends on it, which just follows that yours does too. We've supported you with our fees, our business, our loyalty. If you can't get full feature out, at least roll out a barebones (%-age off or dollar) coupon feature.
This thread is way more than a year old, which means that lots of us have renewed, based on promises.
Our promise to you was in $$$. How about coming through now? You may want spectacular...at this point, we just want functional.
http://www.takeflightphoto.com
http://www.usdgcphotos.com
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I'm the guy that sees every dollar coming in. And I can tell you, the summer is not dead.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
The summer is the slowest time of the year for me and every other photographer I know.
Save $5 on a new Smugmug Membership
Host your website for just $3.45/mo with JustHost - Rated best web host of 2010
See my profile for a gear list & more
Increase your bottom line with Photo Passes
A photo pass is a coupon that gives your customer a credit for a set number of prints in your online store. You pay for the cost of the products in advance, we provide the coupon numbers, and then you sell the coupons to your customers at your retail price. This saves the previewing until your customers are at home on their computer instead of on site previewing. Better still, it invites additional sales when they see all of the images and products that you offer!
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Andy, you are a nice guy...you've been very helpful to me and others, but...
Why don't you quit throwing up rebuttals against everything that someone says on here and admit that SM has fallen down dreadfully on this issue? Set a release date, announce it so we can start making marketing plans, then work around the clock to get the bugs out so you can meet the release date. Better marketing tools means more sales which equates to a h**l of a lot more money for SM, which, after all, is what you are wanting.
With all the other, less desirable photo sites out there having coupon/package features, it really can't be that hard for competent programmers to execute. The rest of SM is quite competently done. But was the EZ customizer that necessary of a business tool, compared to a sales and marketing feature like coupons and packages? I don't think you would find many of your pro customers that would say so. I don't know how many pro customers SM has, but i'd venture it in the thousands. And at $150 a year each, that's a chunk of change that should be spent supporting what pros need to do business.
http://www.takeflightphoto.com
http://www.usdgcphotos.com
I agree. Set a date so we have some idea when this is going to happen.
David Moon
And you simply can't equate Easy Customizer, or any other feature, to Coupons, as we have different Sorcerers on different jobs.
Thanks!
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
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Host your website for just $3.45/mo with JustHost - Rated best web host of 2010
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Are they serious?
If you have a credit card on file why would you need to pay for (unsold) product up front?
Issue coupon codes and charge me as they are redeemed.
Fortunately SM seems to have that detail figured out.
You may consider me pacified. Thanks bigwebguy!
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
We all know the average user like you is more important. $150/yr is absolutely a good price. Not any different than any other similar service, but definitely worth it.
Until you start earning money with your photos, you won't understand how important coupons and packages is to a pro. I would pay $300/yr without blinking if it meant I had coupons and packages vs. not having them at $150/yr.
I understand that SmugMug has a difficult job in balancing the needs of a consumer and a professional. You do need to understand though that for you, your photos are a hobby and a fun activity. For a pro, not having coupons/print credit hurts the business. I know for a fact that I lost hundreds of dollars this spring alone by not offering coupons. Again, I'm not saying that SmugMug shouldn't make its consumer end strong as well and release new features. All I'm saying is that there's way more at stake for a pro than there is for you.
While SM does take care of all its users needs, the pros have many more needs and we pay more to have them addressed.
Save $5 on a new Smugmug Membership
Host your website for just $3.45/mo with JustHost - Rated best web host of 2010
See my profile for a gear list & more
But what's at stake for SmugMug? Losing 100,000 "consumers", would be a lot worse than losing 1,000 pros. Yes - I made those numbers up. But, in the end, SmugMug is a business, they have to focus on ALL of their customers. When you pay for more "features" for your brick & mortar gallery, you pay more rent. At SmugMug, the rent doesn't seem to be going up - but Pros keep asking for more and more features.
Yes - I understand they'd help your business. And apparently, I don't understand "business" since I'm a "hobbyist"... But as Andy has said many times, there are sorcerers assigned. They're working on it. If you want it faster, I'd bet they'll have to increase the rent.
All's I'm saying - Give Andy and the rest of the SM staff a break. They've more than outdone what most would think capable from such a small staff.