DGrin Shootout 2009 FAQ -- Details

Ann McRae

Announcing!
The 2009 Dgrin Shoout: Oct 7-11, 2009, Acadia National Park

Update: We will be staying at the Bar Harbor Regency


Sounds cool to me, how do I join?
Sign up is in a separate thread, via a form.We will be able to accommodate a total of 60 people.

Update Aug. 15: Waitlist has been accommodated and there are spots available. See the sign up thread!

Nitty Gritty Details
This is not a workshop, so there is no schedule. We will have a whiteboard posted in the ballroom we have reserved, and our pro photogs (of which we have three) jot down what locations they plan to shoot and associated meeting times. You can choose who you go with or where. It's a bit like choose-your-own-adventure.

At least one night our pros will gather and ask folks to submit a couple images they shot for critique. Other times they will demonstrate some processing tricks. A typical day is usually rise at 3am, shoot sunrise, eat breakfast, take a nap, leave at 3pm, shoot sunset, return for dinner or eat dinner in the field and hang out to shoot star trails, sleep a couple hours and start all over again at 3am. On Saturday everyone will return for dinner, and we may have one presentation from the pros after that since everyone is gathered. And, of course, you have full access to the pros in the field, so pepper them with questions at every opportunity!

Roomies:
Everyone's responsible for choosing their own roommate. There's a thread here for folks to find others who have registered, and we suggest everyone chat with their potential roommate to ensure there's a good fit. If things don't work out, we expect people to resolve it themselves however they choose.

What about my significant other? Can they come?
We have limited space and would only prefer snuggle-bunnies who also want to participate in the photography part of the shootout.

The signup form allows single or dual signup. For double occupancy, you must sign up together. A person who's already on somebody else's entry cannot signup on his/her own.

How much do I have to pay for the shootout?
A deposit of $104 per person is required when you are notified to register and will contribute to a meet and greet on Oct. 7 as well as other associated goodies and costs. We will be disclosing all the costs associated with your deposit. As the shootout approaches, participants will also be e-mailed rough itineraries for the social events.

The rate we negotiated with the hotel is $159/night for a non-oceanview room and $189 for an oceanview room for the four nights we are there. With a roommate, you will be splitting the cost. So $159 * 4 / 2 = $318 plus taxes. This is in addition to your deposit.

You are responsible for your own meals, though we are planning for a group dinner our final night there, and a meet and greet with snacks on Wednesday night.

All participants are responsible for the cost of their own transportation, meals, and other expenses.

What happens if I can’t stay all four nights?
You have to pay for all 4 nights, even if you have to leave early. We will not tolerate bill skippers or no shows! It’s not fair for your roommate or for the hotel who blocked off the rooms for us

DEPOSIT: Once you receive the deposit request, you have two weeks to submit your payment. After that, you forfeit your spot in the Shootout.

REFUNDS are available until September 7, 2009, 30 days before the start of the event. If you cancel after that date, you forfeit your deposit amount.

Park Entrance: http://www.nps.gov/acad/planyourvisit/entrancefees.htm has the details. It's $20 when the shuttle buses are running, and $10 after. The extra $10 pays for the buses. The shuttle buses run through Columbus day, which is Oct. 12 this year. So $20 per car while we're there, and we'll be able to use the shuttle buses. See http://www.exploreacadia.com/ for details on the buses.

Those with National Parks Passes won't need to pay the entrance fee.

Check-in is at 4pm Oct. 7 and checkout is 11am Oct. 11. Our negotiated rates apply only for those 4 nights.

Informal meet and greet will be at 8:00pm Wednesday in the ballroom.

Formal gathering time is 11:30am Thursday in the ballroom.

timnosenzo

This sounds cool! Are participants required to stay in the hotel?

Ann McRae

timnosenzo wrote:

This sounds cool! Are participants required to stay in the hotel?

Yes, currently our official point of view is this:

While nothing would prevent someone from shooting in Acadia at the same time as the organized shootout, doing so will not get you access to the pros, special organized events (critique and learning sessions and others) or hosted dinner.
We want this to be a dgrin community event, with as much socializing as shooting (after all, what do you do between sunrise and late afternoon?) and hope to offer some special extras along this line.

The extra activities will be primarily organized in meeting rooms at the hotel.

If this changes, we will let everyone know.

Schnauzer

Hotel it is then. I'll get someone to feed the horses.

aktse

timnosenzo wrote:

This sounds cool! Are participants required to stay in the hotel?

If you are selected in the lottery, then staying at the recommended hotel is highly recommended.

All organized activities will be based at the hotel, including meeting for shoots in the field with the pros. We will try and schedule some events, but nearly everything depends on chasing sweet light and the weather. The events are usually scheduled late the previous day or even the morning of the event. It's very difficult to find out where everyone is if you're not in the same hotel. You are attending the shootout to take photos with your fellow dgrinnners; you can visit Acadia anytime by yourself....

I know someone was planning on heading home to feed the animals, etc. I don't recommend this because you will not have the time and honestly, will be too tired. You average about four-five hours a sleep a night during the shootouts, and you try to catch a catnap whenever possible (if possible). In Moab, bed time was around midnight, wake-up was about 4-5 am, and about two minutes after the meetup time, all cars disappeared from the hotel lobby.

Schnauzer

aktse wrote:

If you are selected in the lottery, then staying at the recommended hotel is highly recommended.

All organized activities will be based at the hotel, including meeting for shoots in the field with the pros. We will try and schedule some events, but nearly everything depends on chasing sweet light and the weather. The events are usually scheduled late the previous day or even the morning of the event. It's very difficult to find out where everyone is if you're not in the same hotel. You are attending the shootout to take photos with your fellow dgrinnners; you can visit Acadia anytime by yourself....

I know someone was planning on heading home to feed the animals, etc. I don't recommend this because you will not have the time and honestly, will be too tired. You average about four-five hours a sleep a night during the shootouts, and you try to catch a catnap whenever possible (if possible). In Moab, bed time was around midnight, wake-up was about 4-5 am, and about two minutes after the meetup time, all cars disappeared from the hotel lobby.

That was me and I'll get someone to feed the horses. I'll stay at the hotel like everyone else.

Is this a lottery or first come first served?

aktse

Schnauzer wrote:

Is this a lottery or first come first served?

Lottery -- see FAQ in first post of this thread.

hawkeye978

Forgive me if I'm being dense, but I just want to have a sanity check on costs. We have to pay $100 registration fee, roughly $400 for hotel, plus food and sundry expenses. The reason I'm asking is that from what I remember the fees for these type of events are normally multi-thousand dollar range.

aktse

hawkeye978 wrote:

Forgive me if I'm being dense, but I just want to have a sanity check on costs. We have to pay $100 registration fee, roughly $400 for hotel, plus food and sundry expenses. The reason I'm asking is that from what I remember the fees for these type of events are normally multi-thousand dollar range.

It's the difference between a small intimate workshop in which you have to pay for the pros as well as all of your travel costs. For the dgrin shootout, Smugmug generously pays for the pros (not cheap!).

You just pay for your own travel expenses and provide some money for the meeting rooms and other meet/greet activities. For most workshops, it is a method for the pros to make a living and to share their knowledge. For this Acadia shootout, you only chip $100 and the money is used directly for the shootout itself; the dgrin shootout does not make any money.

You won't get the attention and detail that a workshop provides since workshops are generally ten people or less; they are two entirely different things. At the dgrin shootouts, the pros will be there to answer your questions during shoots and in meetings (and meals too!), but don't expect any detailed hand-holding, specific lesson plans, class-room instructions followed by field exercises, with in-depth reviews of your work. This is not a workshop. If you have any questions, it's up to you to find them and ask and up to you to attend the critique sessions!

However, the shootout provides an entirely different energy and vibe. Also, there are many other experts on the trip other than the official "pros". Dgrin has some fabulous photographers!

How often can you shoot with 60 other photo junkies?

Nikolai

aktse wrote:

It's the difference between a small intimate workshop in which you have to pay for the pros and the dgrin shootout in which smugmug generously pays for the pros.

You just pay for your own travel expenses and help chip in money for the meeting rooms and other meet/greet activities.

You won't get the attention and detail that a workshop provides since workshops are generally ten people or less. However, the shootout provides an entirely different energy and vibe.

How often can you shoot with 60 other photo junkies?

What April said!

anwmn1

hawkeye978 wrote:

Forgive me if I'm being dense, but I just want to have a sanity check on costs. We have to pay $100 registration fee, roughly $400 for hotel, plus food and sundry expenses. The reason I'm asking is that from what I remember the fees for these type of events are normally multi-thousand dollar range.

From this past year I would give the advice to budget $1200-1500 for the trip not including airfare.

$100 Reservation Fee to Cover Meeting Rooms & Pros
$400 For Hotel
$200-$400 for Rental Vehicle & Gas (depending on how many in the car)
$200 for food (depending on how and where you eat)
$200-$400 misc expenses (forgot or lost items like memory cards, gloves - touristy items)

Hope that helps.

Nikolai

anwmn1 wrote:

$100 Reservation Fee to Cover Meeting Rooms & Pros

Minor correction: Pros are covered by SM, otherwise it would be a little bit more than $100
Other than that - great layout, Aaron, this should really help the first-timers!

aktse

anwmn1 wrote:

From this past year I would give the advice to budget $1200-1500 for the trip not including airfare.

$100 Reservation Fee to Cover Meeting Rooms & Pros
$400 For Hotel
$200-$400 for Rental Vehicle & Gas (depending on how many in the car)
$200 for food (depending on how and where you eat)
$200-$400 misc expenses (forgot or lost items like memory cards, gloves - touristy items)

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the post! Helpful! Very helpful!

One minor correction. The $100 reservation fee holds your spot and help pay for the hotel conference room, etc. The pros are generously paid by smugmug. And smugmug also pays for one group dinner. If we paid for pros, it would be much more than $100

You can save money by the following:
1) Not forgetting anything and not buying anything extra. Pack, double check, and check again.
2) Find a roommate to share hotel costs and selecting the cheapest room-type
3) Buy plane tickets early
4) Getting into a group for the rental car to split the cost; Or, find someone local and offer to pay for the gas. The best rental vehicle for four people is either a mini-van or a SUV-type.
5) Finding cheap eating places, bring sandwiches.
6) I can't believe I'm even mentioning this, but don't drink Stay away from beer/wine at meals because it begins to quickly add up.

Nikolai

aktse wrote:

6) I can't believe I'm even mentioning this, but don't drink Stay away from beer/wine at meals because it begins to quickly add up.

Hold on a 1/250s here.
Why on Earth would I even consider going there then?
Cheers!

aktse

Nikolai wrote:

Hold on a 1/250s here.
Why on Earth would I even consider going there then?
Cheers!

It's only a suggestion for those budget conscious dgrinners. You don't have to follow this.

If you want to :slosh or more than :photo, it's your choice. Cheers!

DanielB

:slosh <== me.


just remember, you didn't see anything...<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/mwink.gif" border="0" alt="" >

jdryan3

aktse wrote:

You won't get the attention and detail that a workshop provides since workshops are generally ten people or less; they are two entirely different things. At the dgrin shootouts, the pros will be there to answer your questions during shoots and in meetings (and meals too!)

If you have any questions, it's up to you to find them and ask and up to you to attend the critique sessions!

Don't under estimate the value of this interaction. Our group had the pleasure of riding with David Porter twice, plus having breakfast. Marc was extremely approachable even at 5:30am. I gathered some great tips to fine tune my PS worklfow at Marc's overview. Plus the critique was great to sit in on, for even part of the time.

AND I got to talk to Andy

Nikolai wrote:

Hold on a 1/250s here.
Why on Earth would I even consider going there then?
Cheers!

Or get some else to pay for it, eh Nik?

Nikolai

jdryan3 wrote:

Or get some else to pay for it, eh Nik?

That would work, too :-)

Schnauzer

I will buy you a beer or maybe two Nik. Then you are on your own.

Nikolai

Schnauzer wrote:

I will buy you a beer or maybe two Nik. Then you are on your own.

mmh,
Deal

DavidTO

Just a note to point out that we made a minor revision on the wording in the FAQ. The $100 is a deposit that is used in part to cover shared costs. We were using the term "fee", and that is not accurate.

Phyxius

DavidTO wrote:

Just a note to point out that we made a minor revision on the wording in the FAQ. The $100 is a deposit that is used in part to cover shared costs. We were using the term "fee", and that is not accurate.

I know I'm being a bit anal and detail oriented here, but you mention that the $100 deposit goes in part to cover shared costs. Where's the rest going? Because $100 x 60 people = $6000.

Ann McRae

Phyxius wrote:

I know I'm being a bit anal and detail oriented here, but you mention that the $100 deposit goes in part to cover shared costs. Where's the rest going? Because $100 x 60 people = $6000.

Not anal at all - very valid question.

We will use the deposit to pay to rent a meeting room at the hotel for all the days of the shoot out - for critiques for sure. We are considering some other options as well in terms of some additional organized social stuff.

We will outline our options at some point, will not spend if the options are not wanted by participants, provide full accounting to participants and will refund any excess funds to the participants.

Is that clearer?

Phyxius

Ann McRae wrote:

Not anal at all - very valid question.

We will use the deposit to pay to rent a meeting room at the hotel for all the days of the shoot out - for critiques for sure. We are considering some other options as well in terms of some additional organized social stuff.

We will outline our options at some point, will not spend if the options are not wanted by participants, provide full accounting to participants and will refund any excess funds to the participants.

Is that clearer?

Crystal and sparkly. Thanks.

Scott_Quier

Ann McRae wrote:

Not anal at all - very valid question.

We will use the deposit to pay to rent a meeting room at the hotel for all the days of the shoot out - for critiques for sure. We are considering some other options as well in terms of some additional organized social stuff.

We will outline our options at some point, will not spend if the options are not wanted by participants, provide full accounting to participants and will refund any excess funds to the participants.

Is that clearer?

Wonderfully clear and concise.

Oh, BTW - My confidence in the "committee" to find a fair and equitable way to sort through all this has been shown to be well founded :ivar I guess that's a long-winded way of saying, "See, I told you so!"

Looking forward to the signup form and paying my $200 - both my wife and I are intended to shoot and have a good time!! and all on only 4 - 5 hours of sleep a night!!

Ann McRae

Thanks, Scott! Appreciate it.

Scott_Quier wrote:

Wonderfully clear and concise.

Oh, BTW - My confidence in the "committee" to find a fair and equitable way to sort through all this has been shown to be well founded :ivar I guess that's a long-winded way of saying, "See, I told you so!"

Looking forward to the signup form and paying my $200 - both my wife and I are intended to shoot and have a good time!! and all on only 4 - 5 hours of sleep a night!!

Ann McRae

I thought some information about getting to Bar Harbour might help people when deciding whether they can put their name into the registration process.

Getting to Bar Harbour

Quebec City to Bar Harbour (think preshoot!)

Saint John, NB to Bar Harbour

Halifax to Bar harbour via Yarmouth Ferry, plus 3 hr ferry crossing

Rhuarc

Ok, so just a quick clarification question. I have read the whole first post twice, but I just want to be sure. This year we do not need to sit refreshing the page to try to be one of the first 60 to sign up. As long as we post that we want in the lottery between Nov 7th and the 23rd everyone will have the same chances of getting drawn?

I just don't want to assume this is how it is and then go to sign up on the 14th and suddenly find out all the spots were taken on the 8th!

Thank you!

Nikolai

Rhuarc wrote:

Ok, so just a quick clarification question. I have read the whole first post twice, but I just want to be sure. This year we do not need to sit refreshing the page to try to be one of the first 60 to sign up. As long as we post that we want in the lottery between Nov 7th and the 23rd everyone will have the same chances of getting drawn?

I just don't want to assume this is how it is and then go to sign up on the 14th and suddenly find out all the spots were taken on the 8th!

Thank you!

Yes, that is correct. Everybody who fill registration form during this open period will stand a equal and fair chance before the Lototron!

cj99si

Cool something in my state!

Can I get a discount if I drive some of you around

aktse

cj99si wrote:

Cool something in my state!

Can I get a discount if I drive some of you around

Nice car (and photo!)

Discount on what? Everyone is paying for their own way, smuggy is paying for the pros, everyone is sharing the costs of the conference rooms, and everyone is paying their own way, etc.

However, you might be able to get someone to buy you a beer