Yeah, us bird shooters tend to use selective sharpening and/or selective noise reduction for exactly that reason. I was kind of hoping this camera had noise levels so low that this sort of selective processing wouldn't be necessary. But I guess that was wishful thinking.
Yeah, us bird shooters tend to use selective sharpening and/or selective noise reduction for exactly that reason. I was kind of hoping this camera had noise levels so low that this sort of selective processing wouldn't be necessary. But I guess that was wishful thinking.
Thanks, Andy.
-joel
You're kidding, yes? You really think the noise is high ?
High, no. But it's noticeable, and a little disappointing for ISO 160.
Cheers,
-joel
I think you're crazy But that's just me.
I've been working with some massively large 5D II Panorama files, nightshots, with sky - this is by far the lowest noise I've ever, ever, ever seen in doing these.
I've been working with some massively large 5D II Panorama files, nightshots, with sky - this is by far the lowest noise I've ever, ever, ever seen in doing these.
Happy to hear there are some REAL positives from Real Users... I'd like to say I have a camera to try out, but not yet.. soon I hope though!! I also well want to use it for "Low Light" shots primarily... and LIKE what I hear/see for the most part!!
Back from beautiful Vail, Colorado. After my first real week with this camera, a few preliminary thoughts. Mind you, I was a 30D owner and a 5D owner before this camera, so that class of interface is very familiar to me:
1. Thanks to your advice in another thread, I kept out condensation. The weather sealing worked great in one hour's exposure to falling (and melting) snow. This is a positive change. Somewhere, Canon tells you the sealing is about equivalent to the EOS 1V (or 1N?). An odd disclosure—a bit like saying "you've just bought a new car with some of the same aspects as our highly-regarded 1998 Model!" Still, it's working so no complaints about the camera, but this is still one area I think Canon undervalues it's non-1D customers as "non-pros".
2. Live View rules. Focusing on a tripod in LV at 10x is just the greatest thing. I think Canon did a great job making LV as easy as possible to use. I kept it in Quick focus and didn't use the contrast focus or face recognition.
3. ISO. The high ISOs do indeed look really good and they've changed how I shoot, which is the revolution I wanted. I think Canon doesn't quite beat Nikon here but it's very close—close enough to feel competitive. Considering the increase in resolution it's positively amazing.
4. Auto ISO. This is weak. It becomes clear after a few minutes using the 5D2 on Auto ISO how they derive their "algorhythm". It's based on the equivalent shutter speed/focal length rule for shooting hand-held, e.g., a 50mm lens gives you a minimum handholdable shutter speed of 1/50. Canon have taken this to heart even for wide angles. On auto ISO at 24mm with my 24-105mm zoom, I get 1/20s. This system of bare-minimums is kind of lame and there's no way to set the minimum SS. 1/20 might be acceptable for handholding at 24mm but not when taking pictures of people. Worse still, the Auto ISO doesn't let you utilize all that great ISO to give you HIGHER shutter speeds. Even though 6400 ISO is a "standard" ISO on this camera, you can only AUTO up to 3200. Manual mode makes the Auto ISO snap to 400 and hold on for dear life. What a missed opportunity to match a really helpful Nikon feature.
5. Wireless shutter release. I had one of these little IR RC-1 units from my old XTi and I'm delighted to see I can use it again. I like that you can flip a switch on the unit that let's you choose between immediate release and 2-second delay without having to change it on the camera. I keep it strapped to my strap and it's always there. Great for tripod/MLU use and for group shots. Since I have observed that strangers—without exception—CANNOT manage to use AF effectively when taking your picture (I don't know why but it's the truth) I can pre-focus AND snap off as many as I want with the li'l remote while they simply hold the camera!
6. LCD Screen. This is almost worth the price of admission. Finally a high-res screen that not only has superior color but you can genuinely judge focus and sharpness for what seems like the first time. Combine this with Live View and you have a convenient dimension to photography that was previously missing. I turned off the auto-dimming, as this will absolutely fool you into thinking your exposure is wrong if you only view blinkies, as I do.
7. Battery life in the cold was surprisingly good.
8. Menus. I'm a fan of My Menu. It's easy to register menu commands and the navigation is easier than before. I like that the CFs have their own menu now, and are organized more helpfully. There are times when you would think it would be intuitive to select something by pressing the joystick (sorry don't know the official name for this little controller) but you have to press the set button instead. Not sure why. I like the new quick menu thingy, but don't use it all that much. Pressing ISO when in LV for example, brings up every possible ISO setting on the LCD. Not necessary but I like that.
9. AF On button. I was a user of the * button for AF previously, so I love this button. I have it set to have the shutter button meter and engage IS and the AF button do AF.
10. Movie Mode. I only just started to try this out and I don't quite get the exposure part yet. You can have your exposure set to compensate for snow (say, +1 stop) and pop into movie record and you're back to +0 EC to start with. I have much to investigate here but my initial movies seem nice, once I can get them to play back on my laptop without stuttering. WAY too many reviews focus too much on this mode which seems really stupid to me. Nobody's talking about the AF or the nuts and bolts.
11. AF. This has certainly been slightly improved in speed, but for the most part, is the same as the 5D and remains my biggest disappointment with the upgrade of the camera. It's not that it doesn't work well for what it's designed for—it does. For stationary subjects and tripod use, it's great. For tracking moving objects from a distance, it's not bad. What I wanted was a small, non-grip Canon body with AF from their 1D-series and it's clear Canon don't believe in this as a model and the 5D is the closest model Canon makes that suits my needs. I have to side with Matthew Saville when I express my disappointment for Canon's lack of trickle down amenities when it comes to the 5D series. Don't get me wrong, it works, I am just pining for a more PJ-style camera that is smaller than a 1DmkIII and is FF. For landscapery, the 5D2 can't be beat.
12. Image Quality is pretty fantastic. I have not yet seen any black dots. Zooming to 1:1 shows some pretty amazing far-away detail that the 5D1 would not have resolved. With high IQ comes increasing scrutiny of your existing lenses. Anything that was less than great with your previous collection will be all that and maybe more. My fave lens, the 35L, shows more CA on this body than on the 5D, in my initial tests. Maybe not MORE CA but you can see it easily now since the screen and resolution is so much better. Live view also increases your perception of lens imperfections but only the end result matters. But in the end, I can live with what I get because my lenses are mostly HQ and things like CA and vignetting are easily dealt with in Lightroom. I haven't looked into differences between 12- and 14-bit files yet, but I'm happy with what comes out of the camera.
13. The viewfinder is WAY better, showing a lot more info and the top LCD shows the ISO full time so this is a positive change. I don't notice the extra 2% increase in VF size.
14. 3 custom modes is better than 1, enough said. I haven't used the CA mode yet and not sure I ever will. At least I can turn it to full-auto (green square mode) to hand to somebody to take a picture and actually get a RAW file now. I would prefer the mode changer was not on a detented knob, which is easily mis-handled. But you can't complain it's hard to use.
15. Highlight Tone Priority. I'm staying away from this until it's no longer associated with the Black Dot phenomenon.
16. Silent shooting modes. In LV, you get two versions of a quiet shutter release. In the environments I work, this will be a huge boon. The downside, is that you don't get the same speed of focus as you do when NOT in LV. The Live View giveth and the Live View taketh away.
Apart from this, everything you liked about the 5D is still there, more or less. The button layout on the top is handy for lighting the LCD, but I feel like the WB button is now farther away that it was before. I would like more than +/- 2 stops of compensation or metering measurement.
Overall, I love this camera and it's a huge improvement in many areas. I'll have to wait to see if Canon wants to make the camera I really want, but for now, this is the best fit for me.
I have a wedding tomorrow where I'll be dual-wielding the 5D and the 5D MK II. I'll have plenty of real-world work to compare the two.
EDIT: Just got my 85mm f/1.2L... wow it's a big bitch...
Modus Imagery
Moving away from photography and into cinema. PM me if you have questions about DSLR workflow or production questions.
Film Reel: http://vimeo.com/19955876
Modus Imagery
Moving away from photography and into cinema. PM me if you have questions about DSLR workflow or production questions.
Film Reel: http://vimeo.com/19955876
OK, now I can finally add to this thread
I've been waiting for months for a 5D MII, and finally just got the kit even though I already have the 24-105. By the time my battery charged, it was dark, and I don't have an L-plate or any mounting bracket for a tripod (yet), which left only one real subject available for testing...
ISO 500:
ISO 1000:
Both shot with the 85 f/1.2 wide open, hand-held, no flash, using crappy artificial light at night with shadows all over the place, and I had to bump up the "fill light" in ACR to bring out some details in the eyes. So basically, the worst possible scenario for noise, but the noise levels are still well within reason.
Once I get my L-plate I can use this thing for what I bought it for, full frame landscapes After a few outings, I'll be able to offer a more detailed review, but initial impressions are definitely positive.
Cat, that's brilliant shots, I need to check out the whole gallery now Did you use 5D2 solely or 40D as well to shoot the wedding? Did you change lenses?
I took about 700+ shots. 500+ were 5D2 and 200+ were 40D. I tried to stick to the 5D2 when possible, but sometimes I couldn't switch the lenses fast enough and just took the shots w/ the 40D.
I second that. I discovered at Christmas that 35L seemed a bit wide and 135L seemed a bit close... and though I have a 50 1.4 and a 100 2.8... I think an 85L would have been perfect.
Thankfully my empty wallet prevents me from pursuing such things now, haha.
Christmas pictures and adorable videos of my nephew (who is almost 2) to follow once I have time to upload them, just got home from my in-laws late last night.... must get caught up now!
Thankfully my empty wallet prevents me from pursuing such things now, haha.
Yep thankfully to my empty wallet, all those primes are out of my reach! Well that is ok, if I do want to go to Denmark it is SAVE SAVE SAVE! I can live with just shooting a 24-70!!! for now.
Modus Imagery
Moving away from photography and into cinema. PM me if you have questions about DSLR workflow or production questions.
Film Reel: http://vimeo.com/19955876
I agree. However, being one that has taken the financial plunge, I am now on the list of people waiting with baited memory cards and wireless file transmitters for their new body!!!!!!!!!!
Comments
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
BTW, all of your 5D II pics are amazing.............
troy
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
-joel
Link to my Smugmug site
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
And some NR applied in RAW for those that like to use that.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Thanks, Andy.
-joel
Link to my Smugmug site
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Edit: Seeing it now - that's one hell of a piccie!
High, no. But it's noticeable, and a little disappointing for ISO 160.
Cheers,
-joel
Link to my Smugmug site
I've been working with some massively large 5D II Panorama files, nightshots, with sky - this is by far the lowest noise I've ever, ever, ever seen in doing these.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Happy to hear there are some REAL positives from Real Users... I'd like to say I have a camera to try out, but not yet.. soon I hope though!! I also well want to use it for "Low Light" shots primarily... and LIKE what I hear/see for the most part!!
1. Thanks to your advice in another thread, I kept out condensation. The weather sealing worked great in one hour's exposure to falling (and melting) snow. This is a positive change. Somewhere, Canon tells you the sealing is about equivalent to the EOS 1V (or 1N?). An odd disclosure—a bit like saying "you've just bought a new car with some of the same aspects as our highly-regarded 1998 Model!" Still, it's working so no complaints about the camera, but this is still one area I think Canon undervalues it's non-1D customers as "non-pros".
2. Live View rules. Focusing on a tripod in LV at 10x is just the greatest thing. I think Canon did a great job making LV as easy as possible to use. I kept it in Quick focus and didn't use the contrast focus or face recognition.
3. ISO. The high ISOs do indeed look really good and they've changed how I shoot, which is the revolution I wanted. I think Canon doesn't quite beat Nikon here but it's very close—close enough to feel competitive. Considering the increase in resolution it's positively amazing.
4. Auto ISO. This is weak. It becomes clear after a few minutes using the 5D2 on Auto ISO how they derive their "algorhythm". It's based on the equivalent shutter speed/focal length rule for shooting hand-held, e.g., a 50mm lens gives you a minimum handholdable shutter speed of 1/50. Canon have taken this to heart even for wide angles. On auto ISO at 24mm with my 24-105mm zoom, I get 1/20s. This system of bare-minimums is kind of lame and there's no way to set the minimum SS. 1/20 might be acceptable for handholding at 24mm but not when taking pictures of people. Worse still, the Auto ISO doesn't let you utilize all that great ISO to give you HIGHER shutter speeds. Even though 6400 ISO is a "standard" ISO on this camera, you can only AUTO up to 3200. Manual mode makes the Auto ISO snap to 400 and hold on for dear life. What a missed opportunity to match a really helpful Nikon feature.
5. Wireless shutter release. I had one of these little IR RC-1 units from my old XTi and I'm delighted to see I can use it again. I like that you can flip a switch on the unit that let's you choose between immediate release and 2-second delay without having to change it on the camera. I keep it strapped to my strap and it's always there. Great for tripod/MLU use and for group shots. Since I have observed that strangers—without exception—CANNOT manage to use AF effectively when taking your picture (I don't know why but it's the truth) I can pre-focus AND snap off as many as I want with the li'l remote while they simply hold the camera!
6. LCD Screen. This is almost worth the price of admission. Finally a high-res screen that not only has superior color but you can genuinely judge focus and sharpness for what seems like the first time. Combine this with Live View and you have a convenient dimension to photography that was previously missing. I turned off the auto-dimming, as this will absolutely fool you into thinking your exposure is wrong if you only view blinkies, as I do.
7. Battery life in the cold was surprisingly good.
8. Menus. I'm a fan of My Menu. It's easy to register menu commands and the navigation is easier than before. I like that the CFs have their own menu now, and are organized more helpfully. There are times when you would think it would be intuitive to select something by pressing the joystick (sorry don't know the official name for this little controller) but you have to press the set button instead. Not sure why. I like the new quick menu thingy, but don't use it all that much. Pressing ISO when in LV for example, brings up every possible ISO setting on the LCD. Not necessary but I like that.
9. AF On button. I was a user of the * button for AF previously, so I love this button. I have it set to have the shutter button meter and engage IS and the AF button do AF.
10. Movie Mode. I only just started to try this out and I don't quite get the exposure part yet. You can have your exposure set to compensate for snow (say, +1 stop) and pop into movie record and you're back to +0 EC to start with. I have much to investigate here but my initial movies seem nice, once I can get them to play back on my laptop without stuttering. WAY too many reviews focus too much on this mode which seems really stupid to me. Nobody's talking about the AF or the nuts and bolts.
11. AF. This has certainly been slightly improved in speed, but for the most part, is the same as the 5D and remains my biggest disappointment with the upgrade of the camera. It's not that it doesn't work well for what it's designed for—it does. For stationary subjects and tripod use, it's great. For tracking moving objects from a distance, it's not bad. What I wanted was a small, non-grip Canon body with AF from their 1D-series and it's clear Canon don't believe in this as a model and the 5D is the closest model Canon makes that suits my needs. I have to side with Matthew Saville when I express my disappointment for Canon's lack of trickle down amenities when it comes to the 5D series. Don't get me wrong, it works, I am just pining for a more PJ-style camera that is smaller than a 1DmkIII and is FF. For landscapery, the 5D2 can't be beat.
12. Image Quality is pretty fantastic. I have not yet seen any black dots. Zooming to 1:1 shows some pretty amazing far-away detail that the 5D1 would not have resolved. With high IQ comes increasing scrutiny of your existing lenses. Anything that was less than great with your previous collection will be all that and maybe more. My fave lens, the 35L, shows more CA on this body than on the 5D, in my initial tests. Maybe not MORE CA but you can see it easily now since the screen and resolution is so much better. Live view also increases your perception of lens imperfections but only the end result matters. But in the end, I can live with what I get because my lenses are mostly HQ and things like CA and vignetting are easily dealt with in Lightroom. I haven't looked into differences between 12- and 14-bit files yet, but I'm happy with what comes out of the camera.
13. The viewfinder is WAY better, showing a lot more info and the top LCD shows the ISO full time so this is a positive change. I don't notice the extra 2% increase in VF size.
14. 3 custom modes is better than 1, enough said. I haven't used the CA mode yet and not sure I ever will. At least I can turn it to full-auto (green square mode) to hand to somebody to take a picture and actually get a RAW file now. I would prefer the mode changer was not on a detented knob, which is easily mis-handled. But you can't complain it's hard to use.
15. Highlight Tone Priority. I'm staying away from this until it's no longer associated with the Black Dot phenomenon.
16. Silent shooting modes. In LV, you get two versions of a quiet shutter release. In the environments I work, this will be a huge boon. The downside, is that you don't get the same speed of focus as you do when NOT in LV. The Live View giveth and the Live View taketh away.
Apart from this, everything you liked about the 5D is still there, more or less. The button layout on the top is handy for lighting the LCD, but I feel like the WB button is now farther away that it was before. I would like more than +/- 2 stops of compensation or metering measurement.
Overall, I love this camera and it's a huge improvement in many areas. I'll have to wait to see if Canon wants to make the camera I really want, but for now, this is the best fit for me.
I have a wedding tomorrow where I'll be dual-wielding the 5D and the 5D MK II. I'll have plenty of real-world work to compare the two.
EDIT: Just got my 85mm f/1.2L... wow it's a big bitch...
Moving away from photography and into cinema. PM me if you have questions about DSLR workflow or production questions.
Film Reel: http://vimeo.com/19955876
www.tednghiem.com
here's a test of the 85mm f/1.2L with my MK II
Moving away from photography and into cinema. PM me if you have questions about DSLR workflow or production questions.
Film Reel: http://vimeo.com/19955876
I've been waiting for months for a 5D MII, and finally just got the kit even though I already have the 24-105. By the time my battery charged, it was dark, and I don't have an L-plate or any mounting bracket for a tripod (yet), which left only one real subject available for testing...
ISO 500:
ISO 1000:
Both shot with the 85 f/1.2 wide open, hand-held, no flash, using crappy artificial light at night with shadows all over the place, and I had to bump up the "fill light" in ACR to bring out some details in the eyes. So basically, the worst possible scenario for noise, but the noise levels are still well within reason.
Once I get my L-plate I can use this thing for what I bought it for, full frame landscapes
Photo Gallery | Blog | I'm Unemployed!
I took about 700+ shots. 500+ were 5D2 and 200+ were 40D. I tried to stick to the 5D2 when possible, but sometimes I couldn't switch the lenses fast enough and just took the shots w/ the 40D.
Facebook: Friend / Fan || Twitter: @shimamizu || Google Plus
I second that. I discovered at Christmas that 35L seemed a bit wide and 135L seemed a bit close... and though I have a 50 1.4 and a 100 2.8... I think an 85L would have been perfect.
Thankfully my empty wallet prevents me from pursuing such things now, haha.
Christmas pictures and adorable videos of my nephew (who is almost 2) to follow once I have time to upload them, just got home from my in-laws late last night.... must get caught up now!
Facebook: Friend / Fan || Twitter: @shimamizu || Google Plus
Yep thankfully to my empty wallet, all those primes are out of my reach! Well that is ok, if I do want to go to Denmark it is SAVE SAVE SAVE! I can live with just shooting a 24-70!!! for now.
www.tednghiem.com
And so you shall!
Full image:
100% crop: (attached)
Moving away from photography and into cinema. PM me if you have questions about DSLR workflow or production questions.
Film Reel: http://vimeo.com/19955876
Just stop it now, it's not funny any more!
Charlie
www.brogen.com
Member: PPA , PPANE, PPAM & NAPP
Are you developing Canonitis?
www.tednghiem.com
Also higher for inoculation in Canada I believe.
Facebook: Friend / Fan || Twitter: @shimamizu || Google Plus
ISO 2000, 135 f2/L lens @ f2, 1/250 shutter speed
I have videos from him as well, need to quick teach myself how to embed them and then that will be the next step.
Facebook: Friend / Fan || Twitter: @shimamizu || Google Plus