2) Any packages I've defined appear on a separate tab next to the Prints, Downloads, and Merchandise tabs, so the user can go straight to them if that's what they want.
I think I would actually like it on the prints tab as well - or at least the option to have it there if possible. But I can see the advantages of a "packages" and "a la cart" sections.
4) If the user is selecting individual pictures and just happens to select a combination of products that fits one of my predefined packages, then the site should tell them so before they go to pay, and give them the option to convert to the package deal.
5) Some kind of package "digital purchase" deal that allows a customer to select a bunch of pictures and get the digital versions (low res or hi res, their choice) burned onto a CD or DVD. On this item I'd like to be able to set a bulk discount, such that the more photos you order, the more you save per photo.
I can do this part after the fact - send them a personalized CD for free as a thank you, but it would be nice. For me, this would be a "nice to have" but a lower priority than the other things mentioned.
I like what Jwoolf said except for #5. Right now I turn off digital downloads everywhere except where there is pre-arrangement with the customer so that it's in a limited gallery with completely retouched images. Simply can't abide selling proofs as finished images, whether digital or not. And to comply with California law, I deliver digitally only outside of smuggy and not on CD--that is the customer's responsibility, to make their own backup. That way, at the moment, it is not sales-taxable. I want all sales tax collected by Smuggy, but again, can't handle that there's no proof delay on those. Otherwise I would love to see DD included in packages.
If it's part of a package where the primary image is on proof delay, will the digital one be delivered immediately?
My other concern is the crop. Will the pro still be able to adjust the crop, especially when there are different sizes ordered? I don't know how ExMan handles that.
And to comply with California law, I deliver digitally only outside of smuggy and not on CD--that is the customer's responsibility, to make their own backup. That way, at the moment, it is not sales-taxable.
Can you expand on this? (In a PM would be fine) I'm trying to understand what you're getting at wrt to state law.....
If it's part of a package where the primary image is on proof delay, will the digital one be delivered immediately?
I suspect this will be no different than today. The download is immediately available, however, after you replace the proof with a retouched image, that image is now available under the same download link... so if the customer simply waits or redownloads then they'll get the final image, not the proof. (And they'll know to do that because you've emailed them to thank them for their order and tell them you've finished proofing it, saw that they had downloads and told them those have been replaced with the retouched images so they should download them again. )
My other concern is the crop. Will the pro still be able to adjust the crop, especially when there are different sizes ordered? I don't know how ExMan handles that.
Again, this should happen just like it does today... if the customer orders two different aspect ratios from the same image, you'll need to upload an image that's capable of handling both. Every now and again we get a mail from a pro asking why when they replace the image for the 5x7 does it affect the 8x10 from the same image... the answer is to NOT upload a different aspect ratio image than the original; just use the customer's cropping in the cart (or recrop if you've uploaded more pixels).
SmugMug Sorcerer - Engineering Team Champion for Commerce, Finance, Security, and Data Support http://wall-art.smugmug.com/
I like the idea of packages, but with the current cart setup (which I think is great) I think packages will get very confusing.
I do think however, that packages and coupons should be directly related. At least, a customer should be able to enter a photographer-created coupon to receive a package. Such as a discounted rate if they purchase a specific amount of photos at specific sizes. Or, this package should be able to apply by default, but this option should be specified by the photographer.
Also, packages should be photographer-independent. Not smugmug-wide. I don't think I'll run into this issue as I don't think my customers are ordering from fellow smugmug photogs very often.
Hopefully they'll be organized in an easy way to follow both on a gallery level and a cart level, without confusing the customer too much even if it's saving the customer money...
Thanks Smugmug - hope to see coupons (and packages I guess) soon! Coupons are going to be far more beneficial for me though, but I think they go together...
P.S. - I just thought of this... Maybe it's been said... Can packages be color coded in the cart? A photographer could even title packages by color and they could be highlighted and grouped in the cart to make the discount easier to follow in the cart...
--
_:nod Nate____
Canon 1D Mark II N . Canon 20D . Canon Digital Rebel Xti .
Speedlite 430 EX .
Canon : 18-55 kit, 75-300 IS, 70-200 IS f/2.8 L .
if a bride selected all her favorites in her little smugmug gallery,
then hit the "Send Photographer Your Favorites" button, I could login
and pay for them and send them off to print.
Now this is a great idea. I have sat through many a tedious sessions of going through a bunch of image numbers to get the images the customer wanted ready for printing.
Now this is a great idea. I have sat through many a tedious sessions of going through a bunch of image numbers to get the images the customer wanted ready for printing.
Seems unlikely since you would be cutting out the 15% SM gets from print orders.
Much more likely that you would issue the bride a "coupon" for $xxx worth of photos (at your Pro prices) and SM would take their normal profit.
I would love to see packages implemented-it's a great way to sell more prints both by bundling a print package with portraits and weddings, and also after the fact.
Most likely I would charge for the print package with the photo session cost, and then give the client a coupon code equal to the cost of the package so they could redeem it that way. What would be really great is if I could give them a package code, so it would be a one step process-they would enter the code, it would add the package to their cart and mark it as paid. They would then add the photos they wanted to fill the package, and could also order additional photos at the same time.
I really, really hope both packages and coupons are implemented very soon-the wedding season is starting back up again, and I could really use some more income (who couldn't?). Prints are a great low effort, high margin product, and it would be great if SmugMug offered more ways to sell the prints-there are plenty of products to order, now the pros want ways to sell more of those products.
Also-I was about to ask for the feature Mr. Woolf suggested where the cart will detect if a package is in the cart, and take it a step further-let's say I have a package that is 1 8x10 and 2 5x7 prints, and they have 1 8x10 and 1 5x7-the cart could offer them a second 5x7 print to make a package for $x more (or less, depending on the pricing). There is a reason stores will price things as 8/$5-it's very effective, and most people will buy 8, even if they only needed 2. So if we can offer 6 5x7 prints for $30, somebody who was only going to get 4 may very well decide to up their order to 6.
I would also like to see SM become less visable to my customers. I'm assuming Smug Pro will most likely be going toward this but I hate the fact that Smug is all over the packaging that my customer receives and mine is no where to be found. I wish they would go the way of Exposure Manager and give us control of what is on the packaging.
From EM:
"You can even customize the packaging we ship your shots in to match your brand. We remain invisible to your customer. Always."
Amen to what the last poster said, too! I would even be willing to pay a little more to either have no logo or my logo on the packaging. The other sort of discouraging thing is that anybody who is browsing my smugmug site can click a link down at the bottom of the page and go see exactly how much smugmug charges for prints, and figure out my mark up. I have yet to hear a complaint from a customer, but I could imagine how a client that is being charged $2.75 for a print from me could be a little upset to find out that my cost is $0.38.
As I've said, I do like SmugMug a lot, but as I work to grow my business, I am running up against some of the limitations and annoyances.
The other sort of discouraging thing is that anybody who is browsing my smugmug site can click a link down at the bottom of the page and go see exactly how much smugmug charges for prints, and figure out my mark up.
Try this logged out, and see what non SmugMug account holders see! Or, replace the footer with CSS, #16 on the Customizing FAQ:http://www.smugmug.com/help/customize-faq
That seems like a new thing, or maybe I never looked at prices logged out-I like the way that works! I still would like to be able to have my name and logo on print packaging, but it does make me happy that my cost isn't being advertised.
I really see big issues coming up if you try implement all these ideas and suggestions. You will never satisfy everyone.
Something that lets you (the photog) simply pick from the list of already available items and build a package and then set a price for it, is likely the best route. Interface for the customer should be a simple "buy package" option where they select the images they want. At the end of that process there could simply be an option to "add to order" where that takes customers back to the gallery (while storing the previous selections in the shopping cart) where they can add shots via ala carte or heck even buy a whole additional package.
I'm having a problem coming up with what might be "non-obvious" for a package feature set. But I'll get the ball rolling.
Must:
1 - be able to select products (not just prints) to be included in a package.
2 - be able to price all as one item
3 - be able to set it so that coupons work or don't work with the package (selectable by SMer)
Should:
1 - allow for swapping in packages (e.g. allow the end customer to swap 2 5x7s in place of an 8x10)
Well I hope something is coming soon. I just promised someone I'm working a deal with that I will have packages and coupons before the games begin. If Smug doesn't do it then I will have to go to EM. I just paid for a year with Smug so I may have two sites.
Try this logged out, and see what non SmugMug account holders see! Or, replace the footer with CSS, #16 on the Customizing FAQ:http://www.smugmug.com/help/customize-faq
I'm with Mr. Davis above. The easy ability for clients -- or anyone for that matter -- to calculate a pro's markup is QUITE annoying to put it nicely.
Unless I'm missing something here...
I'm also in total agreement with the idea of SmugMug becoming less(in) visible for pro account sales.
And to stay on thread topic:
I feel packages shouldn't be client customizable.
Keep coupons for client selections. Keep packages for what the photog is offering.
I'm with Mr. Davis above. The easy ability for clients -- or anyone for that matter -- to calculate a pro's markup is QUITE annoying to put it nicely.
While I can understand your reasoning, I really don't think any of our clients don't know how much, ballpark, an 8x10 print costs to have made.
And to stay on thread topic:
I feel packages shouldn't be client customizable.
Keep coupons for client selections. Keep packages for what the photog is offering.
Agreed. Don't let these features get out-of-hand. Keep things simple.
I'm with Mr. Davis above. The easy ability for clients -- or anyone for that matter -- to calculate a pro's markup is QUITE annoying to put it nicely.
Unless I'm missing something here...
I'm also in total agreement with the idea of SmugMug becoming less(in) visible for pro account sales.
And to stay on thread topic:
I feel packages shouldn't be client customizable.
Keep coupons for client selections. Keep packages for what the photog is offering.
Hi Aaron, don't believe for a second that your clients don't know what a print costs - they buy stuff from labs too. They're paying for what you put on the paper.
Still, we're working hard to have some less SmugMug on Pro pages, as part of SmugMug Pro - and this will be an area we'll work on.
Hi Aaron, don't believe for a second that your clients don't know what a print costs - they buy stuff from labs too. They're paying for what you put on the paper.
I understand what both you and Bill above are saying -- as do most photographers using SmugMug. But the opportunity for someone to readily see my exact markup bothers me more as a privacy issue for my business than as a determination of what my work's value is. There's a real difference between ballpark guessing and transparent information.
All arguements of whether the information should / could be accessible withstanding, I think Pros would feel better knowing it would take more than two clicks to figure out how much our markup is.
Still, we're working hard to have some less SmugMug on Pro pages, as part of SmugMug Pro - and this will be an area we'll work on.
Thanks for the great feedback!
I am glad to know that SmugMug will be working on removing themselves from our Pro pages. Will there simply be "less" SmugMug or an invisible presence like the previously mentioned site? I am a really big supporter of SmugMug and love the way you all handle things.
I understand what both you and Bill above are saying -- as do most photographers using SmugMug. But the opportunity for someone to readily see my exact markup bothers me more as a privacy issue for my business than as a determination of what my work's value is. There's a real difference between ballpark guessing and transparent information.
All arguements of whether the information should / could be accessible withstanding, I think Pros would feel better knowing it would take more than two clicks to figure out how much our markup is.
I agree with this entirely. One click on the smugmug link at the bottom of our sites, and one click on the "Prints and Gifts" link, and whammy, all the PRO prices are viewable by anyone in the general public.
I agree with this entirely. One click on the smugmug link at the bottom of our sites, and one click on the "Prints and Gifts" link, and whammy, all the PRO prices are viewable by anyone in the general public.
I also have to agree.. I don't want my customer's to easily find out the wholesale price.
Dealing with parents, a lot wouldn't understand the major price hike if you tried to explain it to them.
I also have to agree.. I don't want my customer's to easily find out the wholesale price.
You guys really do think people are too stupid to figure out how much it costs to make a print? Like they don't go to Wal Mart to get their own prints done from time to time? I'm with Andy on this one, this is a non-issue.
Coupons
I sure don't want to go to another service but I do need a way to offer my customers at sporting events to "pre-register" for photos and then reward them back with a coupon....
You gave us really great feedback on coupons, which we really appreciate. Lee is coding away on them and we have the user interface and feature set mostly worked out (but lots of code and testing to go).
We have a different guy working on packages and we could use the same feedback. If you're local to Mountain View, why not stop by and give us a brain dump? We'll buy your lunch.
If not, we'd love to hear from you at baldy at smugmug dot com, or here.
I don't mind that SmugMug advertises what the wholesale prices are, but I don't want people to know I'm using SmugMug (and thus the two together to figure out how much markup I'm charging).
I guess my primary issue stems from the fact that Smugmug is still branded during the checkout and on the merchandise instead of providing a truly transparent solution for photographers to control their image.
As for this thread, one more vote for KISS packages and pre-generating coupons for a gallery.
As for this thread, one more vote for KISS packages and pre-generating coupons for a gallery.
BTW Folks, the Sorcerer responsible for making packages had a bit of a setback last week, having fallen ill and requiring immediate gall bladder surgery. Gabe's home recovering now and is working a bit this week and we hope to have him back to full action as soon as possible. Your good wishes should help too Sorry for this news but I know Gabe's committed to getting on track ASAP.
Comments
I think I would actually like it on the prints tab as well - or at least the option to have it there if possible. But I can see the advantages of a "packages" and "a la cart" sections.
This would be GREAT!
I can do this part after the fact - send them a personalized CD for free as a thank you, but it would be nice. For me, this would be a "nice to have" but a lower priority than the other things mentioned.
Leander, Texas
http://www.2-dphoto.com
If it's part of a package where the primary image is on proof delay, will the digital one be delivered immediately?
My other concern is the crop. Will the pro still be able to adjust the crop, especially when there are different sizes ordered? I don't know how ExMan handles that.
Galleries here Upcoming Ranch/Horse Workshop
Can you expand on this? (In a PM would be fine) I'm trying to understand what you're getting at wrt to state law.....
I suspect this will be no different than today. The download is immediately available, however, after you replace the proof with a retouched image, that image is now available under the same download link... so if the customer simply waits or redownloads then they'll get the final image, not the proof. (And they'll know to do that because you've emailed them to thank them for their order and tell them you've finished proofing it, saw that they had downloads and told them those have been replaced with the retouched images so they should download them again.
Again, this should happen just like it does today... if the customer orders two different aspect ratios from the same image, you'll need to upload an image that's capable of handling both. Every now and again we get a mail from a pro asking why when they replace the image for the 5x7 does it affect the 8x10 from the same image... the answer is to NOT upload a different aspect ratio image than the original; just use the customer's cropping in the cart (or recrop if you've uploaded more pixels).
http://wall-art.smugmug.com/
I like the idea of packages, but with the current cart setup (which I think is great) I think packages will get very confusing.
I do think however, that packages and coupons should be directly related. At least, a customer should be able to enter a photographer-created coupon to receive a package. Such as a discounted rate if they purchase a specific amount of photos at specific sizes. Or, this package should be able to apply by default, but this option should be specified by the photographer.
Also, packages should be photographer-independent. Not smugmug-wide. I don't think I'll run into this issue as I don't think my customers are ordering from fellow smugmug photogs very often.
Hopefully they'll be organized in an easy way to follow both on a gallery level and a cart level, without confusing the customer too much even if it's saving the customer money...
Thanks Smugmug - hope to see coupons (and packages I guess) soon! Coupons are going to be far more beneficial for me though, but I think they go together...
P.S. - I just thought of this... Maybe it's been said... Can packages be color coded in the cart? A photographer could even title packages by color and they could be highlighted and grouped in the cart to make the discount easier to follow in the cart...
_:nod Nate____
Canon 1D Mark II N . Canon 20D . Canon Digital Rebel Xti .
Speedlite 430 EX .
Canon : 18-55 kit, 75-300 IS, 70-200 IS f/2.8 L .
Now this is a great idea. I have sat through many a tedious sessions of going through a bunch of image numbers to get the images the customer wanted ready for printing.
Monte
Seems unlikely since you would be cutting out the 15% SM gets from print orders.
Much more likely that you would issue the bride a "coupon" for $xxx worth of photos (at your Pro prices) and SM would take their normal profit.
Follow the money.
I would use SM in a hearbeat for order fullfilment, same me a ton of time, but until they have a way to charge in CDN dollars it is a no go.
Monte
Most likely I would charge for the print package with the photo session cost, and then give the client a coupon code equal to the cost of the package so they could redeem it that way. What would be really great is if I could give them a package code, so it would be a one step process-they would enter the code, it would add the package to their cart and mark it as paid. They would then add the photos they wanted to fill the package, and could also order additional photos at the same time.
I really, really hope both packages and coupons are implemented very soon-the wedding season is starting back up again, and I could really use some more income (who couldn't?). Prints are a great low effort, high margin product, and it would be great if SmugMug offered more ways to sell the prints-there are plenty of products to order, now the pros want ways to sell more of those products.
From EM:
"You can even customize the packaging we ship your shots in to match your brand. We remain invisible to your customer. Always."
DMunsonPhoto
MaxPreps Profile
Sports Shooter
As I've said, I do like SmugMug a lot, but as I work to grow my business, I am running up against some of the limitations and annoyances.
Try this logged out, and see what non SmugMug account holders see! Or, replace the footer with CSS, #16 on the Customizing FAQ:http://www.smugmug.com/help/customize-faq
My Galleries My Photography BLOG
Ramblings About Me
I really see big issues coming up if you try implement all these ideas and suggestions. You will never satisfy everyone.
Something that lets you (the photog) simply pick from the list of already available items and build a package and then set a price for it, is likely the best route. Interface for the customer should be a simple "buy package" option where they select the images they want. At the end of that process there could simply be an option to "add to order" where that takes customers back to the gallery (while storing the previous selections in the shopping cart) where they can add shots via ala carte or heck even buy a whole additional package.
Simple = good
Just my humble opinion. Matt
My Site
I would love this!
DMunsonPhoto
MaxPreps Profile
Sports Shooter
When I go to www.smugmug.com and click on "Prints & Gifts" at the bottom,
it takes me to http://www.smugmug.com/prints/catalog/P where the prices
are clearly printed for anyone to see.
I'm with Mr. Davis above. The easy ability for clients -- or anyone for that matter -- to calculate a pro's markup is QUITE annoying to put it nicely.
Unless I'm missing something here...
I'm also in total agreement with the idea of SmugMug becoming less(in) visible for pro account sales.
And to stay on thread topic:
I feel packages shouldn't be client customizable.
Keep coupons for client selections. Keep packages for what the photog is offering.
Website: www.aaronbrownphotos.com
Facebook: www.facebook.com/aaronbrownphotography
Twitter: www.twitter.com/abrownphotos
Agreed. Don't let these features get out-of-hand. Keep things simple.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
Still, we're working hard to have some less SmugMug on Pro pages, as part of SmugMug Pro - and this will be an area we'll work on.
Thanks for the great feedback!
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
All arguements of whether the information should / could be accessible withstanding, I think Pros would feel better knowing it would take more than two clicks to figure out how much our markup is.
I am glad to know that SmugMug will be working on removing themselves from our Pro pages. Will there simply be "less" SmugMug or an invisible presence like the previously mentioned site? I am a really big supporter of SmugMug and love the way you all handle things.
Thanks for the reply, Andy!
Website: www.aaronbrownphotos.com
Facebook: www.facebook.com/aaronbrownphotography
Twitter: www.twitter.com/abrownphotos
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
I agree with this entirely. One click on the smugmug link at the bottom of our sites, and one click on the "Prints and Gifts" link, and whammy, all the PRO prices are viewable by anyone in the general public.
OneTwoFiftieth | Portland, Oregon | Modern Portraiture
My Equipment:
Bodies: Canon 50D, Canon EOS 1
Lenses: Canon 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS, Canon 50mm f/1.4, Canon 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8
Lighting: Canon 580EXII, Canon 420 EX, 12" Reflector, Pocket Wizard Plus II (3), AB800 (3), Large Softbox
Stability: Manfrotto 190CXPRO3 Tripod, Manfrotto 488RC4 Ball Head, Manfrotto 679B Monopod
I also have to agree.. I don't want my customer's to easily find out the wholesale price.
Dealing with parents, a lot wouldn't understand the major price hike if you tried to explain it to them.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
Thanks.
Nonetheless, it's in our plans to make it not possible to find the price list, from pro sites and pro shopping carts.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
I sure don't want to go to another service but I do need a way to offer my customers at sporting events to "pre-register" for photos and then reward them back with a coupon....
Please tell me this is important to others.....
Nick, in waiting
I guess my primary issue stems from the fact that Smugmug is still branded during the checkout and on the merchandise instead of providing a truly transparent solution for photographers to control their image.
As for this thread, one more vote for KISS packages and pre-generating coupons for a gallery.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter