Demoing them at SMUG meetings like I have and posting public screen shots sounds like a different answer to me.
Of course it would
I see here on the forums when asked when, the answer is soon we are working on it.
If asked again months later , the answer is soon we are working on it.
All I have asked is how can I make an informed decision about sticking with SM with answers like that.
I have been checking out EM and they have all of those features that I have been told are coming soon to SM.
PM Skillz?
Having only been on SmugMug for less than a year, I have lurked quietly in the forums watching the different promises and "coming soon" threads. As a project manager in technology, its obvious that SmugMug has made the decision to not use any popular project management methodoligies, or they would be able to give us milestone reports on each of the different development activities. However, I do understand that SmugMug is capable of doing things any way they wish, and also understand that they may lose clients based upon their own method of doing things. Apparently, they have accepted that risk, and obviously don't think that too many people will leave, because they know that there are people like me who have a renewal coming up shortly, and are too lazy to start again from scratch with another site.
Am I disappointed in their methods in announcing features with misleading/hazy release dates? Absolutely. Will I leave? Probably not. Will my comments in this thread make any difference. Definitely not, as the other irate client's comments have obviously fallen on deaf ears. Does it make me feel better by posting my opinions? Sure. Will I keep coming here anticipating disappointing updates? Naturally. I personally would just prefer no updates, versus a bunch of misleading teaser comments. Overall, I am very happy with what I get from SmugMug. I just feel that they could be more professional in these forums if they are going to continue to reply to threads.
Please just be honest, and only tell us the truth.
i.e. "Yes, it's coming. However, we anticipate at least 10 months of development to get this accomplished. We will keep you updated as we progress and will ask for you feedback throughout the process!" or "Yes, we are working on it, and is the top issue in our queue at the moment and you can expect to see updates in 3rd quarter of 2011." Although, that would be unfortunate, it would at least be honest and you wouldn't be dangling that carrot for extended periods of time.
Having only been on SmugMug for less than a year, I have lurked quietly in the forums watching the different promises and "coming soon" threads. As a project manager in technology, its obvious that SmugMug has made the decision to not use any popular project management methodoligies, or they would be able to give us milestone reports on each of the different development activities. However, I do understand that SmugMug is capable of doing things any way they wish, and also understand that they may lose clients based upon their own method of doing things. Apparently, they have accepted that risk, and obviously don't think that too many people will leave, because they know that there are people like me who have a renewal coming up shortly, and are too lazy to start again from scratch with another site.
Am I disappointed in their methods in announcing features with misleading/hazy release dates? Absolutely. Will I leave? Probably not. Will my comments in this thread make any difference. Definitely not, as the other irate client's comments have obviously fallen on deaf ears. Does it make me feel better by posting my opinions? Sure. Will I keep coming here anticipating disappointing updates? Naturally. I personally would just prefer no updates, versus a bunch of misleading teaser comments. Overall, I am very happy with what I get from SmugMug. I just feel that they could be more professional in these forums if they are going to continue to reply to threads.
Please just be honest, and only tell us the truth.
i.e. "Yes, it's coming. However, we anticipate at least 10 months of development to get this accomplished. We will keep you updated as we progress and will ask for you feedback throughout the process!" or "Yes, we are working on it, and is the top issue in our queue at the moment and you can expect to see updates in 3rd quarter of 2011." Although, that would be unfortunate, it would at least be honest and you wouldn't be dangling that carrot for extended periods of time.
clapclapclapclapclapbarbbarb
That is Exactly what I have been saying.
But I am seriously looking at exposuremanager as they have packages, coupons and a few other items I am interested in. I will not be looking forward to the possibility of all the work to get a new site setup.
... as is the lack of publicity accompanying the recent release of major functionality.
We've put it in release notes, last Thursday. Today or tomorrow, I hope we'll be putting a homepage announcement on your homepage, and we'll be sending you an email if you've opted in to news emails.
And, I hope we'll put it in the login page updates.
I expect it to be before January's over, but anything can happen. We're working fast and furious on this, and it's the company's highest priority.
Andy I understand that you have had both hands tied behind your back, blindfolded, and every other thing that could be done to keep you from giving us something more than 'soon'. Bravo on this post. I dont need to know it will be January 7th at 3pm sharp. But I do appreciate an informed ballpark guess. And if you see its longer then I will applaud even more if you come back and say, Guess what? We had a bit of a snafu on part of it and its looking like late January or early February. Anything more than that dreaded phrase, 'soon'. Now of course if a year from now you are still moving it back one month at a time....
I expect it to be before January's over, but anything can happen. We're working fast and furious on this, and it's the company's highest priority.
Now that's what I like to hear. Based on this, I'll only have to give two of my big shoots to Exposure Manager and will only be paying for a month of EM. I look forward to SmugMug's implementation of packages.
I would like to point out, however, how I've been disappointed by the SmugMug Pro campaign. From the teaser site that was put up, it seemed like all of these features would come out as one revamped service (coupons, packages, direct deposit, better branding, maybe even self-fulfillment). There's nothing wrong with doing it this way, but I think that if it was possible to get all these features out together at a time with a few months of when the teaser site was put up, SmugMug would have gotten a lot of press. Whereas now, there's essentially none.
Now that's what I like to hear. Based on this, I'll only have to give two of my big shoots to Exposure Manager and will only be paying for a month of EM. I look forward to SmugMug's implementation of packages.
I would like to point out, however, how I've been disappointed by the SmugMug Pro campaign. From the teaser site that was put up, it seemed like all of these features would come out as one revamped service (coupons, packages, direct deposit, better branding, maybe even self-fulfillment). There's nothing wrong with doing it this way, but I think that if it was possible to get all these features out together at a time with a few months of when the teaser site was put up, SmugMug would have gotten a lot of press. Whereas now, there's essentially none.
It's interesting that EM already has all the features you just mention,(coupons, packages, self-fulfillment)
We've put it in release notes, last Thursday. Today or tomorrow, I hope we'll be putting a homepage announcement on your homepage, and we'll be sending you an email if you've opted in to news emails.
I got an email via the "news" mailing list, which was basically a link to the help page. What's puzzles me is that this is the first time I can recall getting a 'news' email... Personally I'd much prefer getting all my updates via a 'news' email instead of having to repeatedly check an RSS feed or even my website.
Save $5 off your first year's SmugMug image hosting with coupon code hccesQbqNBJbc
I expect it to be before January's over, but anything can happen.
Now this is the kind of answer SM users deserve. Bravo!
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BaldyRegistered Users, Super ModeratorsPosts: 2,853moderator
edited December 7, 2009
Hey everyone,
We really respect your need for dates and to have us hit them because your businesses depend on us, and a lot of money and your reputations are on the line...
Which is why, paradoxically, we don't want to give them. Honestly, we'd rather you went to Exposure Manager than for us to take a risk by projecting a date that we don't hit, and look like we were stringing you along. It isn't that we don't love you or that we're casual about losing you to a competitor, it's respect for the consequences if we miss our date.
The question I'm sure you'll ask is, "Then why don't you hit your frackin' dates!? I work at a software company that does."
And the simple answer is, because this year we didn't. So until we do, I'm not confident in our internal dates. It's our #1 priority to hit them and you've probably noticed the pace of releases picking up, but after the things that came from left field this year I won't feel comfortable giving dates for awhile.
For example, who would have predicted that SmugMug would be the target of three major patent lawsuits that could cost us far more than our engineering budget, and that a great deal of our time would be taken up by them? It's hard to hire like we hoped when so much is being invested in law firms.
As far as Exposure Manager goes, we have a lot of respect for them and if you go there, we understand even though it would be painful for us. We're not them and for better or worse, our customers persuaded us that we can't release packages without true multi-image support. Perhaps they were wiser by keeping their packages simpler.
We really respect your need for dates and to have us hit them because your businesses depend on us, and a lot of money and your reputations are on the line...
Which is why, paradoxically, we don't want to give them. Honestly, we'd rather you went to Exposure Manager than for us to take a risk by projecting a date that we don't hit, and look like we were stringing you along. It isn't that we don't love you or that we're casual about losing you to a competitor, it's respect for the consequences if we miss our date.
Baldy, I think the vast majority here aren't looking for hard dates, more a general time frame (q1, next six months, etc), particularly as things get close. If you had said "Thanksgiving" at the beginning of November and slipped to 12/4 (or even Christmas) I don't think anyone could accuse you of "stringing them along". Valentines Day might be a different matter.
The question I'm sure you'll ask is, "Then why don't you hit your frackin' dates!? I work at a software company that does."
We're all (or most anyway) adults and understand poop happens even in the simplest of things. Honest answers and realistic updates would be appreciated much more than "soon" and "its important". (No offense Andy).
If I had a nickel for every project I ever worked on that had a schedule slip I could have retired at 25.
And the simple answer is, because this year we didn't. So until we do, I'm not confident in our internal dates. It's our #1 priority to hit them and you've probably noticed the pace of releases picking up, but after the things that came from left field this year I won't feel comfortable giving dates for awhile.
For example, who would have predicted that SmugMug would be the target of three major patent lawsuits that could cost us far more than our engineering budget, and that a great deal of our time would be taken up by them? It's hard to hire like we hoped when so much is being invested in law firms.
As far as Exposure Manager goes, we have a lot of respect for them and if you go there, we understand even though it would be painful for us. We're not them and for better or worse, our customers persuaded us that we can't release packages without true multi-image support. Perhaps they were wiser by keeping their packages simpler.
I for one would be happy with date ranges when a project is just getting started (ie, aiming for Q3 2010) w/periodic updates as the project moves along. That 'stuff happens' is a given, so all we'd need would be a 'ran into a snag that'll cost a month or so of extra work.' We'd all be :cry for a bit, but that's ok.
Save $5 off your first year's SmugMug image hosting with coupon code hccesQbqNBJbc
I also work for a company that has roll outs dealing with different programs and equipment and we will put out a projected date and then inform the users of any changes. Example one project I am on now the projected date was Oct 1st and we have just yesterday started to roll out. There was no problem because when we knew the Oct 1st date was not going to be met we informed the users that we ran into some issues and we would update them our Nov 1st date was not met same thing we let the users know.
In away I guess I feel that smugmug does not trust us with the information. Inform us with better answers than just soon.
In away I guess I feel that smugmug does not trust us with the information. Inform us with better answers than just soon.
It's not a matter of trust at all. Like Baldy said, there'd be an angry mob if we miss a date, and also, we do have competitors out here, we don't need to publicly state every thing
It's not a matter of trust at all. Like Baldy said, there'd be an angry mob if we miss a date, and also, we do have competitors out here, we don't need to publicly state every thing
I guess you did not read all of my post if you keep people informed the vast majority of them understand. And as far "we do have competitors out here, we don't need to publicly state every thing" What the heck are the thread you guys start "package feedback" all we are asking it to be kept informed, you could send out a monthly newsletter or something to that affect. When we are not informed is when I feel like I am being strung along
I guess you did not read all of my post if you keep people informed the vast majority of them understand. And as far "we do have competitors out here, we don't need to publicly state every thing" What the heck are the thread you guys start "package feedback" all we are asking it to be kept informed, you could send out a monthly newsletter or something to that affect. When we are not informed is when I feel like I am being strung along
Yeah, I can see it's definitely a shoot-or-be-hanged kinda situation.... we'll try and improve the way we do all this in the future, thanks!
It's not a matter of trust at all. Like Baldy said, there'd be an angry mob if we miss a date,
is this based on experience or supposition?
Considering that you've already got an 'angry mob' because of this lack of guidance, at least make some of us happy(er) than the ones who'd complain about missed dates. At least by providing a projected date, you'd have some people to defend you from the "why can't you hit the date" crowd.
Psst
Psst... you don't need packages. Use an amount-off-a-minimum-order coupon instead. Let's say you have a package that you sell for $35, and the a la carte price of all the stuff in the package is $50. Simple, just issue a coupon for $15 off an order of $50 or more. Then your customers get the same discount, can buy whatever they want, and aren't locked in to what you think they want.
-Jack
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Psst... you don't need packages. Use an amount-off-a-minimum-order coupon instead. Let's say you have a package that you sell for $35, and the a la carte price of all the stuff in the package is $50. Simple, just issue a coupon for $15 off an order of $50 or more. Then your customers get the same discount, can buy whatever they want, and aren't locked in to what you think they want.
I really see big issues coming up if you try implement all these ideas and suggestions. You will never satisfy everyone.
Something that lets you (the photog) simply pick from the list of already available items and build a package and then set a price for it, is likely the best route. Interface for the customer should be a simple "buy package" option where they select the images they want. At the end of that process there could simply be an option to "add to order" where that takes customers back to the gallery (while storing the previous selections in the shopping cart) where they can add shots via ala carte or heck even buy a whole additional package.
Simple = good
Just my humble opinion. Matt
I agree competely, it gives the photographer complete control over the best shots to add to the package. Which in turn helps sale more packages.
They're on the way! I don't expect too much longer, but it's software, and you never know. I hope we're testing them soon.
If you switch to EM, will you not have to take your domain name with you, or have more than one. If you have another domain name, then how will older customers find you? etc...... New business cards to pass out, brochures, advertising?
Ive only been here a short while and love the look of smugmug, I on the other hand find the choosing photos a little difficult for some customers.
So we cant have it all! But I do think in time Smug will step up....
Comments
I see here on the forums when asked when, the answer is soon we are working on it.
If asked again months later , the answer is soon we are working on it.
All I have asked is how can I make an informed decision about sticking with SM with answers like that.
I have been checking out EM and they have all of those features that I have been told are coming soon to SM.
http://www.realphotoman.com/
Work in progress
http://www.realphotoman.net/ Zenfolio 10% off Referral Code: 1KH-5HX-5HU
Should and will are two very different things.
Andy has made it pretty clear that SM will not discuss release dates, even if they should be able to because the release is imminent.
Not the wisest policy IMHO, but they stick to it.
This doesn't mean that we can't lobby for them to change their practice.
Having only been on SmugMug for less than a year, I have lurked quietly in the forums watching the different promises and "coming soon" threads. As a project manager in technology, its obvious that SmugMug has made the decision to not use any popular project management methodoligies, or they would be able to give us milestone reports on each of the different development activities. However, I do understand that SmugMug is capable of doing things any way they wish, and also understand that they may lose clients based upon their own method of doing things. Apparently, they have accepted that risk, and obviously don't think that too many people will leave, because they know that there are people like me who have a renewal coming up shortly, and are too lazy to start again from scratch with another site.
Am I disappointed in their methods in announcing features with misleading/hazy release dates? Absolutely. Will I leave? Probably not. Will my comments in this thread make any difference. Definitely not, as the other irate client's comments have obviously fallen on deaf ears. Does it make me feel better by posting my opinions? Sure. Will I keep coming here anticipating disappointing updates? Naturally. I personally would just prefer no updates, versus a bunch of misleading teaser comments. Overall, I am very happy with what I get from SmugMug. I just feel that they could be more professional in these forums if they are going to continue to reply to threads.
Please just be honest, and only tell us the truth.
i.e. "Yes, it's coming. However, we anticipate at least 10 months of development to get this accomplished. We will keep you updated as we progress and will ask for you feedback throughout the process!" or "Yes, we are working on it, and is the top issue in our queue at the moment and you can expect to see updates in 3rd quarter of 2011." Although, that would be unfortunate, it would at least be honest and you wouldn't be dangling that carrot for extended periods of time.
I am asking point blank for an approximate date that packages will be implemented
My account expires in January and I need to be able to decide if I should wait it out.
I understand that if you give a date there could be complications that may change the date. But the answer soon will not cut it.
http://www.realphotoman.com/
Work in progress
http://www.realphotoman.net/ Zenfolio 10% off Referral Code: 1KH-5HX-5HU
That is Exactly what I have been saying.
But I am seriously looking at exposuremanager as they have packages, coupons and a few other items I am interested in. I will not be looking forward to the possibility of all the work to get a new site setup.
http://www.realphotoman.com/
Work in progress
http://www.realphotoman.net/ Zenfolio 10% off Referral Code: 1KH-5HX-5HU
We've put it in release notes, last Thursday. Today or tomorrow, I hope we'll be putting a homepage announcement on your homepage, and we'll be sending you an email if you've opted in to news emails.
And, I hope we'll put it in the login page updates.
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Andy I understand that you have had both hands tied behind your back, blindfolded, and every other thing that could be done to keep you from giving us something more than 'soon'. Bravo on this post.
Now that's what I like to hear. Based on this, I'll only have to give two of my big shoots to Exposure Manager and will only be paying for a month of EM. I look forward to SmugMug's implementation of packages.
I would like to point out, however, how I've been disappointed by the SmugMug Pro campaign. From the teaser site that was put up, it seemed like all of these features would come out as one revamped service (coupons, packages, direct deposit, better branding, maybe even self-fulfillment). There's nothing wrong with doing it this way, but I think that if it was possible to get all these features out together at a time with a few months of when the teaser site was put up, SmugMug would have gotten a lot of press. Whereas now, there's essentially none.
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http://www.realphotoman.com/
Work in progress
http://www.realphotoman.net/ Zenfolio 10% off Referral Code: 1KH-5HX-5HU
We really respect your need for dates and to have us hit them because your businesses depend on us, and a lot of money and your reputations are on the line...
Which is why, paradoxically, we don't want to give them. Honestly, we'd rather you went to Exposure Manager than for us to take a risk by projecting a date that we don't hit, and look like we were stringing you along. It isn't that we don't love you or that we're casual about losing you to a competitor, it's respect for the consequences if we miss our date.
The question I'm sure you'll ask is, "Then why don't you hit your frackin' dates!? I work at a software company that does."
And the simple answer is, because this year we didn't. So until we do, I'm not confident in our internal dates. It's our #1 priority to hit them and you've probably noticed the pace of releases picking up, but after the things that came from left field this year I won't feel comfortable giving dates for awhile.
For example, who would have predicted that SmugMug would be the target of three major patent lawsuits that could cost us far more than our engineering budget, and that a great deal of our time would be taken up by them? It's hard to hire like we hoped when so much is being invested in law firms.
As far as Exposure Manager goes, we have a lot of respect for them and if you go there, we understand even though it would be painful for us. We're not them and for better or worse, our customers persuaded us that we can't release packages without true multi-image support. Perhaps they were wiser by keeping their packages simpler.
We'll know they've hired the Bibble development team.
:cry
We're all (or most anyway) adults and understand poop happens even in the simplest of things. Honest answers and realistic updates would be appreciated much more than "soon" and "its important". (No offense Andy).
If I had a nickel for every project I ever worked on that had a schedule slip I could have retired at 25.
Stuff like this is what I'm talking about:
In away I guess I feel that smugmug does not trust us with the information. Inform us with better answers than just soon.
http://www.realphotoman.com/
Work in progress
http://www.realphotoman.net/ Zenfolio 10% off Referral Code: 1KH-5HX-5HU
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
http://www.realphotoman.com/
Work in progress
http://www.realphotoman.net/ Zenfolio 10% off Referral Code: 1KH-5HX-5HU
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Considering that you've already got an 'angry mob' because of this lack of guidance, at least make some of us happy(er) than the ones who'd complain about missed dates. At least by providing a projected date, you'd have some people to defend you from the "why can't you hit the date" crowd.
That goes against your claim to transparency.
People, move on, get over it.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
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Psst... you don't need packages. Use an amount-off-a-minimum-order coupon instead. Let's say you have a package that you sell for $35, and the a la carte price of all the stuff in the package is $50. Simple, just issue a coupon for $15 off an order of $50 or more. Then your customers get the same discount, can buy whatever they want, and aren't locked in to what you think they want.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Dave
coupons can't be stacked.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
I agree competely, it gives the photographer complete control over the best shots to add to the package. Which in turn helps sale more packages.
If you switch to EM, will you not have to take your domain name with you, or have more than one. If you have another domain name, then how will older customers find you? etc...... New business cards to pass out, brochures, advertising?
Ive only been here a short while and love the look of smugmug, I on the other hand find the choosing photos a little difficult for some customers.
So we cant have it all! But I do think in time Smug will step up....