But, Andy, I never want to go back there again! Making the switch screwed up the pricing in some of my galleries and it was a pain to fix. In fact, I really need to go through many more galleries before I'll know for sure that they are all correct. Sometimes the price lists don't stick, and yes I am clicking "save." It's a more cumbersome system.
I would have liked to have an option to add a few price lists without changing the other stuff.
If I delete price lists, what will happen to the galleries that currently have that pricing? There are too many to look at.
Write our heroes so we can work with you one-on-one - it's not hard and once you get the hang of it it's actually rather easy. http://help.smugmug.com thanks!
Hi John, I merely said it's very difficult to sort out all the feedback Don't read anything more into it than that, please! There's a ton of feedback we get - from all sorts of customers, here on Dgrin, by email to our help desk, on other forums, on Facebook, in SMUG meetings, and in person at shows and events. We want it all and we love it all. It's really important.
I get you want feedback, but I wasn't commenting on that aspect. You brought up how the pros that make "a lot" of money like the pricelist as is. You then commented the pros that don't make money much money, even pointing out the ones that make "0", are the vocal ones that don't like the pricelist.
Why even bring that up if you guys don't look at how much we make when we complain? I am sure all the complaints are read. It appears like there is also a comparison going on when we do make complaints, otherwise you wouldn't know know how it breaks down.
I have had three friends get smugmug based on my recommendations. This just doesn't sit well with me. How can I not read anything into this? You specifically pointed out those that make money like it, those that don't are vocal against it.
I get you want feedback, but I wasn't commenting on that aspect. You brought up how the pros that make "a lot" of money like the pricelist as is. You then commented the pros that don't make money much money, even pointing out the ones that make "0", are the vocal ones that don't like the pricelist.
Why even bring that up if you guys don't look at how much we make when we complain? I am sure all the complaints are read. It appears like there is also a comparison going on when we do make complaints, otherwise you wouldn't know know how it breaks down.
I have had three friends get smugmug based on my recommendations. This just doesn't sit well with me. How can I not read anything into this? You specifically pointed out those that make money like it, those that don't are vocal against it.
Thanks for posting again. It's really just an interesting point to me, that's all. We don't have any segregation or research going on, we're just taking it all in via this channel and many others. Thanks!
Thanks for posting again. It's really just an interesting point to me, that's all. We don't have any segregation or research going on, we're just taking it all in via this channel and many others. Thanks!
Thank you for replying. Can you tell us why the vocal pros who don't make much and are against the new system is such an interesting point to you? Looking forward to your response! Thanks!
Any word on how all this feedback is being implemented? I need to start setting up an account somewhere else if Smugmug is going to demand so much more of my time, as it's evidencing with how this is being implemented despite such vocal feedback.
Sometimes I think you guys live up to the "smug" in the name way too literally when reading some of the responses in this thread; especially that the few rich 'togs get more weight with Smugmug than the many who are telling you that they hate this new percentage stuff.
Any word on how all this feedback is being implemented? I need to start setting up an account somewhere else if Smugmug is going to demand so much more of my time, as it's evidencing with how this is being implemented despite such vocal feedback.
Sometimes I think you guys live up to the "smug" in the name way too literally when reading some of the responses in this thread; especially that the few rich 'togs get more weight with Smugmug than the many who are telling you that they hate this new percentage stuff.
Smurfy, I'm sorry if you're not satisfied with it. As Andy explained, we get feedback from many different sources. There have been some vocal dissenters here on Dgrin, but the overall consensus from all of our sources has been extremely positive. People are spending far less time managing their pricing, can get a quick visible overview of it all, and are taking less time to familiarize themselves with the new interface.
We are evaluating things and have been making periodic improvements to it. As far as rich photogs, I think Andy's point was that a few people complaining in this thread either don't sell photos through SmugMug or have never set up pricing after being customers for years. Of course we take that into account when looking at feedback.
It's not that we care about any particular Pro more or less, it's that the primary people this feature was built for are working Pros who price and sell their photos through SmugMug.
Smurfy, I'm sorry if you're not satisfied with it. As Andy explained, we get feedback from many different sources. There have been some vocal dissenters here on Dgrin, but the overall consensus from all of our sources has been extremely positive. People are spending far less time managing their pricing, can get a quick visible overview of it all, and are taking less time to familiarize themselves with the new interface.
We are evaluating things and have been making periodic improvements to it. As far as rich photogs, I think Andy's point was that a few people complaining in this thread either don't sell photos through SmugMug or have never set up pricing after being customers for years. Of course we take that into account when looking at feedback.
It's not that we care about any particular Pro more or less, it's that the primary people this feature was built for are working Pros who price and sell their photos through SmugMug.
We know you take feedback into account. The question is what do you DO with the feedback? Right now I am trying to build my business so I can be one of those that "makes a lot of money" as Andy put it. I guess I am one of those "vocal" guys in the minority. I hope I can attain the status of someone whose opinion counts. :ivar
Smurfy, I'm sorry if you're not satisfied with it. As Andy explained, we get feedback from many different sources. There have been some vocal dissenters here on Dgrin, but the overall consensus from all of our sources has been extremely positive. People are spending far less time managing their pricing, can get a quick visible overview of it all, and are taking less time to familiarize themselves with the new interface.
We are evaluating things and have been making periodic improvements to it. As far as rich photogs, I think Andy's point was that a few people complaining in this thread either don't sell photos through SmugMug or have never set up pricing after being customers for years. Of course we take that into account when looking at feedback.
It's not that we care about any particular Pro more or less, it's that the primary people this feature was built for are working Pros who price and sell their photos through SmugMug.
I am really disturbed that this discussion on a new feature with many benefits and 1 glaring problem for some including me has disintegrated into a Company like Smugmug pitting anonymous high volume customers against the ones that are vocal enough to provide feadback on the new feature in writing on dgrin.
Only thing I can think of is name calling never solved anything and it sure isn't helping here is it?
I hope Smugmug hasn't forgotten that we all start somewhere but, that is not what it looks like.
Smurfy, I'm sorry if you're not satisfied with it. As Andy explained, we get feedback from many different sources. There have been some vocal dissenters here on Dgrin, but the overall consensus from all of our sources has been extremely positive. People are spending far less time managing their pricing, can get a quick visible overview of it all, and are taking less time to familiarize themselves with the new interface.
We are evaluating things and have been making periodic improvements to it. As far as rich photogs, I think Andy's point was that a few people complaining in this thread either don't sell photos through SmugMug or have never set up pricing after being customers for years. Of course we take that into account when looking at feedback.
It's not that we care about any particular Pro more or less, it's that the primary people this feature was built for are working Pros who price and sell their photos through SmugMug.
I realize your customers come in all print sale sizes. I'm not a huge earner. Frankly, I'm happy to cover the annual cost ($149 or so) and put a few hundred dollars towards federal taxes at the end of the year from my sales. If it's been a really good year, maybe I'll earn enough to buy a new lens.
What is frustrating about this is that I don't feel that Smugmug understands the difference between their high earners and low earners lives.
There is a big difference in how really big money 'togs run their businesses compared to the rest of us.
The reality is that they have staffs to handle entering percentage points and creating pricelists. They also have staff members to edit, do their accounting, album designs, etc. I don't know who uses Smugmug, but can't imagine that 'togs on the level of Tamara Lackey or Bambi Cantrell are sitting in their living room entering percentage points for each product.
If they use Smugmug, someone is no doubt being paid to do that work for them.
I'm not that type of photographer, and doubt most of your paying pros either. I am happy for those full time pros who earn a ton of money, and don't begrudge anyone hard earned success. But I shoot a limited number of weddings each year simply because I love wedding photography, and am on my own to do all the stuff needed to work legally and deliver a high quality product and experience to those who choose to hire me. That in addition to another full time job and life that has nothing at all to do with photography. I simply don't have the time to 'muck with this percentage stuff', and can't hire someone to do it for me the way the high earners can.
All I'm asking is that if Smugmug wants to make this change, that they do the part most of us little guys and girls are moaning about...The math. That's all. Will you let me enter a price, and You figure out the percentage? If Smugmug won't even consider doing to that, then please just tell me so now, before wedding season starts up again, so I can do what I have to do.
I hope I can attain the status of someone whose opinion counts. :ivar
I'm not sure how I can say this any more plain that I have been for days - we want and value EVERYONE's feedback - really and truly. Your opinion, and the time you take to give it to us, is like gold to us.
I am really disturbed that this discussion on a new feature with many benefits and 1 glaring problem for some including me has disintegrated into a Company like Smugmug pitting anonymous high volume customers against the ones that are vocal enough to provide feadback on the new feature in writing on dgrin.
Only thing I can think of is name calling never solved anything and it sure isn't helping here is it?
I hope Smugmug hasn't forgotten that we all start somewhere but, that is not what it looks like.
David, see my post just above. You're making this into something it's not - we get and take feedback from many, many sources. And we want and value it all.
There is a big difference in how really big money 'togs run their businesses compared to the rest of us.
The reality is that they have staffs
:nah
We're not talking about "big money 'togs" with staffs. I have never talked to a single SmugMug Pro that has a "staff" - these are individual photographers who are making a living shooting and selling. But they don't have a staff.
We're not talking about "big money 'togs" with staffs. I have never talked to a single SmugMug Pro that has a "staff" - these are individual photographers who are making a living shooting and selling. But they don't have a staff.
Then I guess I misunderstood what you said originally about pros who earn a lot of money.
But just FYI, the tone of this response and it's selective quote while ignoring the main point of the post I made is not at all helpful.
I'm not sure how I can say this any more plain that I have been for days - we want and value EVERYONE's feedback - really and truly. Your opinion, and the time you take to give it to us, is like gold to us.
I don't see how I can make it any more plainer and have been saying this since this has been implemented: We have HEARD you want feedback. As smurfy commented on, you guys are continually ignoring points we make or questions we ask. Smurfy brought up some valid points and you did not address his basic question at the end.
What are you doing with the feedback we are giving? Sheaf commented those that are happy with this are working pros, those complaining are a vocal minority who don't make much money so that is taken into account when making decisions. This comes across as our opinions don't matter and is poor PR on your part.
In this thread I have had a question ignored 4 times, and I was told the reason it was ignored was to let me "vet". That basic question has been will we ever have the ability to set prices without plugging in numbers? If this is going to be the norm let us know NOW. My time of renewal is coming up, and smurfy needs to know before wedding season gets here.
We feel like we are talking to a brick wall. Just let us know for sure so we can go elsewhere if needed and if our "feedback" is really being taken into account.
I don't see how I can make it any more plainer and have been saying this since this has been implemented: We have HEARD you want feedback. As smurfy commented on, you guys are continually ignoring points we make or questions we ask. Smurfy brought up some valid points and you did not address his basic question at the end.
What are you doing with the feedback we are giving? Sheaf commented those that are happy with this are working pros, those complaining are a vocal minority who don't make much money so that is taken into account when making decisions. This comes across as our opinions don't matter and is poor PR on your part.
In this thread I have had a question ignored 4 times, and I was told the reason it was ignored was to let me "vet". That basic question has been will we ever have the ability to set prices without plugging in numbers? If this is going to be the norm let us know NOW. My time of renewal is coming up, and smurfy needs to know before wedding season gets here.
We feel like we are talking to a brick wall. Just let us know for sure so we can go elsewhere if needed and if our "feedback" is really being taken into account.
Hi John, I can promise you we're reading and taking it all in. I can't say what changes we'll make, if any right now. I don't have an answer one way or another on your specific question about being able to set prices by price rather than percentage as it is now.
Right now, I do wish I had a better answer for you, but I don't - I'm sorry. I want to thank you for posting though, and for the discussion - which is really valuable and I know how valuable your times is.
1. After migration, what happens to images now under "image pricing" within an existing gallery?
As an example, if out of a dozen images in a gallery, currently three images EACH have different sizes and/or prices that are NOT based on percentages/profit. They are not part of a pricing "scheme" referred to in Smugmug's Help section but are unique for whatever reasons. Will they still be shown with the rest of the dozen images from the original gallery? And will each of them require their own pricelist? If the latter is the case, that can be a potential nightmare for many of us.
2. To create a new price list, in the Help section it says to enter a "default profit percentage over base price." How is a photog supposed to do that if we don't price our work via an overall percentage? We don't work under a "default profit." (See #1, above). Literally, what are we supposed to enter there?
I skipped pages 2-11 of this thread but it looks like the same complaint as the one I have from beginning to end. I have 15 years of experience designing corporate web sites and, in my opinion, making the decision to not allow us to manually set the retail prices for products is a bad user experience. A really bad user experience. You can't maintain a good relationship with the people who pay your bills by forcing us to change the way we think about pricing the products we sell. I could get into the numerous reasons why it's common sense functionality to have but it looks like that's been covered pretty thoroughly.
Please add the ability to price products by the retail price and don't force anyone to migrate over until this is corrected.
1. After migration, what happens to images now under "image pricing" within an existing gallery?
As an example, if out of a dozen images in a gallery, currently three images EACH have different sizes and/or prices that are NOT based on percentages/profit. They are not part of a pricing "scheme" referred to in Smugmug's Help section but are unique for whatever reasons. Will they still be shown with the rest of the dozen images from the original gallery? And will each of them require their own pricelist? If the latter is the case, that can be a potential nightmare for many of us.
2. To create a new price list, in the Help section it says to enter a "default profit percentage over base price." How is a photog supposed to do that if we don't price our work via an overall percentage? We don't work under a "default profit." (See #1, above). Literally, what are we supposed to enter there?
Hi Susan,
1. For each set of prices, you would need a separate pricelist. To make this easier, maybe you have similarly priced photos that you could combine into one pricing scheme and therefore one pricelist to cut down on the need for different pricelists?
2. Enter a percentage that comes close to the desired profits you're looking for. After creating the pricelist, you can then fine tune or even completely change the profits for individual products.
Hi Susan,
1. For each set of prices, you would need a separate pricelist. To make this easier, maybe you have similarly priced photos that you could combine into one pricing scheme and therefore one pricelist to cut down on the need for different pricelists?
2. Enter a percentage that comes close to the desired profits you're looking for. After creating the pricelist, you can then fine tune or even completely change the profits for individual products.
Thanks for replying, Sebastian.
I looked through this thread and based on your response #2, I agree with everyone else for whom figuring out percentages to arrive at a desired price will create major headaches.
On the "create" page what percentage would you suggest putting as a starting point? Percentages on small prints vs. large prints, for example, will vary widely. The 400 percent example on the Help create page would translate into a $.21 base-cost photo being sold at under $1 while 400 percent of a super-sized print might be astronomical for most buyers. I hate math, but that is just common sense.
I really appreciate the SM heroes who have helped me on many occasions, but whoever created this, IMO, didn't think it through. Plugging in a final price and having it immediately convert onscreen to a percentage - AND vice versa - shouldn't be that difficult a program to create in Silicon Valley in 2012.
I skipped pages 2-11 of this thread but it looks like the same complaint as the one I have from beginning to end. I have 15 years of experience designing corporate web sites and, in my opinion, making the decision to not allow us to manually set the retail prices for products is a bad user experience. A really bad user experience. You can't maintain a good relationship with the people who pay your bills by forcing us to change the way we think about pricing the products we sell. I could get into the numerous reasons why it's common sense functionality to have but it looks like that's been covered pretty thoroughly.
Please add the ability to price products by the retail price and don't force anyone to migrate over until this is corrected.
You can still set your own prices. The profit percentage is a base starting point - leave it at 400% for example. Suppose you want your 4x6s to be 7.50 for glossy and lustre and then 8.50 for metallic. You just plug in the numbers until you arrive at what you need. Setting the "rounding tool" to .25 in this case gets me where I wanted to be in about 15 seconds.
It's totally possible, it may take you one or two sizes to get fully comfortable but once you've done one or two, you'll be doing the rest in no-time at all.
You just plug in the numbers until you arrive at what you need. Setting the "rounding tool" to .25 in this case gets me where I wanted to be in about 15 seconds.
But it would take less than 5 seconds to get what you want if we could directly enter final pricing.
Why the extreme resistance to such a simple (and obvious) pricing method?
But it would take less than 5 seconds to get what you want if we could directly enter final pricing.
Why the extreme resistance to such a simple (and obvious) pricing method?
We have discussed this a few times already. It's just not that simple. Having profit as the fixed value enables a host of other features (foreign currency, add-ons, etc.) in a much better way. It also allows us to negotiate better base costs for prints and pass those changes on to you without destroying your profit margins. As I said before, that aspect of it is unlikely to change.
The part that we still are discussing and tossing ideas around on is the user interface. If the profit value is fixed rather than the final price, the difficulty becomes how the UI would be handled to allow a targeted price while still making it clear that only the profit field remains fixed.
We're a little confused the attention from a few people in this thread that, from looking at their SmugMug sites, have rarely set prices and sold prints. At worst, this is an inconvenience, and from our overall feedback, only for a vocal minority. Pros can still get the prices they want, it's just more time-consuming if they think more about the final price than the profit. We definitely empathize with that inconvenience and we are actively trying to figure out a UI that would eliminate it while still making it clear that the final price could be subject to change (albeit very rarely if you are pricing in the same currency as the lab).
I'm getting from some responses that a fixed profit % is unrealistic across all products. Small prints typically
would be a very much higher % then large prints. Maybe a curved profit line set by entering % for small
and a % for largest?
I'm getting from some responses that a fixed profit % is unrealistic across all products. Small prints typically
would be a very much higher % then large prints. Maybe a curved profit line set by entering % for small
and a % for largest?
That's a great suggestion, Allen. Thanks.
It seems a few people are also getting held up believing that the percentage is the only way to enter profits when they are mostly intended as a starting point. We're looking into ways to make that more clear as well.
It seems a few people are also getting held up believing that the percentage is the only way to enter profits when they are mostly intended as a starting point. We're looking into ways to make that more clear as well.
REALLY PERCENTAGE PROFIT IS ONT THE ONLY WAY...SO i CAN QUIT WORRYING ABOUT IT AND GO RIGHT AHEAD AND JUST ENTER A FIXED PRICE.....CAUSE THAT IS THE ONLYU OTHER ALT. THAT IS LOGICAL AND ACTUALLY THE ONLY OTHER CHOICE.... ??????????????????????????????????
tOATALLY FIXED PRICES ARE THE Best starting point not pecentage points...let the software compute the damn percentage of profit...and allow us to enter fixed princes...my accountant could care less about my profit percentage or pricing...she even thinks this is BS!!!
IWANT TO KILL ALL AND I DO MEAN ALL OF MY PRICES ON MY GALLERIES..BEFORE ALL i NEEDED TO DO WAS CLICK ON PORTFOLIO AND THEN IT WAS DONE....I DO NOT WANT 1 SINGLE THING TO BE SELLABLE ON MY SITE...HOW DO I NOW ACCOMPLISH THIS? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ?
But it would take less than 5 seconds to get what you want if we could directly enter final pricing.
Why the extreme resistance to such a simple (and obvious) pricing method?
IF we can make it so, we will.
But the profit-based system allows for things like price changes, lab sales (rare) increases in price as needed (remember we haven't done that in forever but may need to at some point) foreign currency and other things.
REALLY PERCENTAGE PROFIT IS ONT THE ONLY WAY...SO i CAN QUIT WORRYING ABOUT IT AND GO RIGHT AHEAD AND JUST ENTER A FIXED PRICE.....CAUSE THAT IS THE ONLYU OTHER ALT. THAT IS LOGICAL AND ACTUALLY THE ONLY OTHER CHOICE.... ??????????????????????????????????
tOATALLY FIXED PRICES ARE THE Best starting point not pecentage points...let the software compute the damn percentage of profit...and allow us to enter fixed princes...my accountant could care less about my profit percentage or pricing...she even thinks this is BS!!!
IWANT TO KILL ALL AND I DO MEAN ALL OF MY PRICES ON MY GALLERIES..BEFORE ALL i NEEDED TO DO WAS CLICK ON PORTFOLIO AND THEN IT WAS DONE....I DO NOT WANT 1 SINGLE THING TO BE SELLABLE ON MY SITE...HOW DO I NOW ACCOMPLISH THIS? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ?
If you want to not sell anything on your site, perhaps the best thing to do is to set printing off for your galleries?
You surely can set all items to $0 now, and you won't sell anything, as you have been.
Again, we can help, just email or chat with our heroes, we can help you do this if you like.
Hi, Art.
You can accomplish this now. Use the steps I posted just above. Want $7.50 for 4x6 glossy and lustre? Sure, do it. When (and if) we announce Lab sales, where the price is lower to you, then your price will come down (and you can re-adjust if you want, or just leave it). When (and if ever) we have to raise prices, then you can re-adjust if you want.
You can do this now, but you seem to not be interested in doing so I'm happy to help, or have one of our heroes help you personally if you wish. Just say the word.
If you want to not sell anything on your site, perhaps the best thing to do is to set printing off for your galleries? You surely can set all items to $0 now, and you won't sell anything, as you have been.
Again, we can help, just email or chat with our heroes, we can help you do this if you like.
Hi, Art.
You can accomplish this now. Use the steps I posted just above. Want $7.50 for 4x6 glossy and lustre? Sure, do it. When (and if) we announce Lab sales, where the price is lower to you, then your price will come down (and you can re-adjust if you want, or just leave it). When (and if ever) we have to raise prices, then you can re-adjust if you want.
You can do this now, but you seem to not be interested in doing so I'm happy to help, or have one of our heroes help you personally if you wish. Just say the word.
FEELS JUST LIKE THE SAME SLAM THAT WAS POSTED A FEW DAYS AGO COMPARING THE ALLEDGED SILENT MAJORITY TO US VOCAL LOW TO NO SALES PEOPLE.........DAMN RIGH i HAVE NOT SOLD ANYTHING THRU MY WEBSITE...BUT OFF MY WEBSITE IS TOTALLY FRIGGIN DIFFERNT... BUT WE NEED THE OPTION AND BEING ABLE TO ADJUST BY PERCENT IS NOT ....IS NOT.....IS NOT THE EASIEST SOLUTION...... WHEN i HAVE ACCOUNTANTS AND BUSINESS PHD'S TELLING ME THAT THIS SYSTEM STINKS...I COME TO BELIEVE THEM MORE THAN I DO WHAT I SEE THE VERY FEW PEOPLE THAT JUST LOVE THIS SYSTEM......WE ALL KNOW THAT IF ONE IS GETTING PAID BY SMUGMUG THEY ARE NOT GOING TO ROCK THE BOAT... ... .... THE OPTION FOR CLIENTS TO BUY OFF THE SITE IS POSSIBLE IN CASE SOMETHING HAPPENS THAT I AM UNABLE TO FULL FILL THEIR ORDERS ... ... ...NOT AFTER THIS WEEK ...BUT i CAN STILL DOWNLOAD AND FTP TO MY PROFESSIONAL LAB THAT ALWAYS GIVES ME AT LEATS A 90 DAYS NOTICE FOR PRICE INCREASES.....GIVE YOUR TOO LAZY TO DO THAT I NO LONGER NEED TO EVEN OFFER ORDERS THRU SMUGMUG...I CAN DO AS i HAVE BEEN, GIVE PERSONAL CUSTOMER SERVICE TAKE ORDERS BY EMAIL AND MAIL THE ORDERRS OUT MYSELF...AT LEAST IT IS PERSONAL SERVICE, WHETHER TO MY NEIGHBOR NEXT DOOR OR MY CLIENTS IN rIGA, pRAGUE bERLIN OR jOHANNESBURG... YEAH i LOST SOME SALES 6YRS AGO WHEN I CAME HERE DUE TO SMUGMUG'S LACK OF INTEREST IN FOREIGN CURRENCY TRANSACTIONS BUT WITH INSTANT MESSAGING AND EMAIL AND A FRIEND IN PRAGUE THAT LENDED A HAND...WE ARE NOT WORRIED ABOUT YOUR IMPLEMENTING FOREIGN CURRENCY OR EVEN FTP ANY MORE..... ... I will turn off the ability to purchase thru the site... ... and I could careless about any of the other things i have needed for 6 yrs and that many others needed.....
REALLY PERCENTAGE PROFIT IS ONT THE ONLY WAY...SO i CAN QUIT WORRYING ABOUT IT AND GO RIGHT AHEAD AND JUST ENTER A FIXED PRICE.....CAUSE THAT IS THE ONLYU OTHER ALT. THAT IS LOGICAL AND ACTUALLY THE ONLY OTHER CHOICE.... ??????????????????????????????????
tOATALLY FIXED PRICES ARE THE Best starting point not pecentage points...let the software compute the damn percentage of profit...and allow us to enter fixed princes...my accountant could care less about my profit percentage or pricing...she even thinks this is BS!!!
Art, you can set individual values.
IWANT TO KILL ALL AND I DO MEAN ALL OF MY PRICES ON MY GALLERIES..BEFORE ALL i NEEDED TO DO WAS CLICK ON PORTFOLIO AND THEN IT WAS DONE....I DO NOT WANT 1 SINGLE THING TO BE SELLABLE ON MY SITE...HOW DO I NOW ACCOMPLISH THIS? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ?
This is very easy with Pricelists or with gallery settings. To do it with Pricelists, just create a new Pricelist without choosing any products to be available. Make it your portfolio and either delete or make sure the other Pricelists are not applied to any galleries or photos.
Comments
Write our heroes so we can work with you one-on-one - it's not hard and once you get the hang of it it's actually rather easy. http://help.smugmug.com thanks!
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
I get you want feedback, but I wasn't commenting on that aspect. You brought up how the pros that make "a lot" of money like the pricelist as is. You then commented the pros that don't make money much money, even pointing out the ones that make "0", are the vocal ones that don't like the pricelist.
Why even bring that up if you guys don't look at how much we make when we complain? I am sure all the complaints are read. It appears like there is also a comparison going on when we do make complaints, otherwise you wouldn't know know how it breaks down.
I have had three friends get smugmug based on my recommendations. This just doesn't sit well with me. How can I not read anything into this? You specifically pointed out those that make money like it, those that don't are vocal against it.
Thanks for posting again. It's really just an interesting point to me, that's all. We don't have any segregation or research going on, we're just taking it all in via this channel and many others. Thanks!
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Thank you for replying. Can you tell us why the vocal pros who don't make much and are against the new system is such an interesting point to you? Looking forward to your response! Thanks!
Sometimes I think you guys live up to the "smug" in the name way too literally when reading some of the responses in this thread; especially that the few rich 'togs get more weight with Smugmug than the many who are telling you that they hate this new percentage stuff.
Smurfy, I'm sorry if you're not satisfied with it. As Andy explained, we get feedback from many different sources. There have been some vocal dissenters here on Dgrin, but the overall consensus from all of our sources has been extremely positive. People are spending far less time managing their pricing, can get a quick visible overview of it all, and are taking less time to familiarize themselves with the new interface.
We are evaluating things and have been making periodic improvements to it. As far as rich photogs, I think Andy's point was that a few people complaining in this thread either don't sell photos through SmugMug or have never set up pricing after being customers for years. Of course we take that into account when looking at feedback.
It's not that we care about any particular Pro more or less, it's that the primary people this feature was built for are working Pros who price and sell their photos through SmugMug.
We know you take feedback into account. The question is what do you DO with the feedback? Right now I am trying to build my business so I can be one of those that "makes a lot of money" as Andy put it. I guess I am one of those "vocal" guys in the minority. I hope I can attain the status of someone whose opinion counts. :ivar
I am really disturbed that this discussion on a new feature with many benefits and 1 glaring problem for some including me has disintegrated into a Company like Smugmug pitting anonymous high volume customers against the ones that are vocal enough to provide feadback on the new feature in writing on dgrin.
Only thing I can think of is name calling never solved anything and it sure isn't helping here is it?
I hope Smugmug hasn't forgotten that we all start somewhere but, that is not what it looks like.
www.phabulousphotos.com
Sportsshooter.com Member
http://www.sportsshooter.com/members.html?id=10162
I realize your customers come in all print sale sizes. I'm not a huge earner. Frankly, I'm happy to cover the annual cost ($149 or so) and put a few hundred dollars towards federal taxes at the end of the year from my sales. If it's been a really good year, maybe I'll earn enough to buy a new lens.
What is frustrating about this is that I don't feel that Smugmug understands the difference between their high earners and low earners lives.
There is a big difference in how really big money 'togs run their businesses compared to the rest of us.
The reality is that they have staffs to handle entering percentage points and creating pricelists. They also have staff members to edit, do their accounting, album designs, etc. I don't know who uses Smugmug, but can't imagine that 'togs on the level of Tamara Lackey or Bambi Cantrell are sitting in their living room entering percentage points for each product.
If they use Smugmug, someone is no doubt being paid to do that work for them.
I'm not that type of photographer, and doubt most of your paying pros either. I am happy for those full time pros who earn a ton of money, and don't begrudge anyone hard earned success. But I shoot a limited number of weddings each year simply because I love wedding photography, and am on my own to do all the stuff needed to work legally and deliver a high quality product and experience to those who choose to hire me. That in addition to another full time job and life that has nothing at all to do with photography. I simply don't have the time to 'muck with this percentage stuff', and can't hire someone to do it for me the way the high earners can.
All I'm asking is that if Smugmug wants to make this change, that they do the part most of us little guys and girls are moaning about...The math. That's all. Will you let me enter a price, and You figure out the percentage? If Smugmug won't even consider doing to that, then please just tell me so now, before wedding season starts up again, so I can do what I have to do.
Thank you.
I'm not sure how I can say this any more plain that I have been for days - we want and value EVERYONE's feedback - really and truly. Your opinion, and the time you take to give it to us, is like gold to us.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
David, see my post just above. You're making this into something it's not - we get and take feedback from many, many sources. And we want and value it all.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
:nah
We're not talking about "big money 'togs" with staffs. I have never talked to a single SmugMug Pro that has a "staff" - these are individual photographers who are making a living shooting and selling. But they don't have a staff.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Then I guess I misunderstood what you said originally about pros who earn a lot of money.
But just FYI, the tone of this response and it's selective quote while ignoring the main point of the post I made is not at all helpful.
I don't see how I can make it any more plainer and have been saying this since this has been implemented: We have HEARD you want feedback. As smurfy commented on, you guys are continually ignoring points we make or questions we ask. Smurfy brought up some valid points and you did not address his basic question at the end.
What are you doing with the feedback we are giving? Sheaf commented those that are happy with this are working pros, those complaining are a vocal minority who don't make much money so that is taken into account when making decisions. This comes across as our opinions don't matter and is poor PR on your part.
In this thread I have had a question ignored 4 times, and I was told the reason it was ignored was to let me "vet". That basic question has been will we ever have the ability to set prices without plugging in numbers? If this is going to be the norm let us know NOW. My time of renewal is coming up, and smurfy needs to know before wedding season gets here.
We feel like we are talking to a brick wall. Just let us know for sure so we can go elsewhere if needed and if our "feedback" is really being taken into account.
Hi John, I can promise you we're reading and taking it all in. I can't say what changes we'll make, if any right now. I don't have an answer one way or another on your specific question about being able to set prices by price rather than percentage as it is now.
Right now, I do wish I had a better answer for you, but I don't - I'm sorry. I want to thank you for posting though, and for the discussion - which is really valuable and I know how valuable your times is.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
As an example, if out of a dozen images in a gallery, currently three images EACH have different sizes and/or prices that are NOT based on percentages/profit. They are not part of a pricing "scheme" referred to in Smugmug's Help section but are unique for whatever reasons. Will they still be shown with the rest of the dozen images from the original gallery? And will each of them require their own pricelist? If the latter is the case, that can be a potential nightmare for many of us.
2. To create a new price list, in the Help section it says to enter a "default profit percentage over base price." How is a photog supposed to do that if we don't price our work via an overall percentage? We don't work under a "default profit." (See #1, above). Literally, what are we supposed to enter there?
Thanks to whoever answers these.
Susan
Up Close With Mother Nature: The Photography of Susan Wiedmann
Please add the ability to price products by the retail price and don't force anyone to migrate over until this is corrected.
1. For each set of prices, you would need a separate pricelist. To make this easier, maybe you have similarly priced photos that you could combine into one pricing scheme and therefore one pricelist to cut down on the need for different pricelists?
2. Enter a percentage that comes close to the desired profits you're looking for. After creating the pricelist, you can then fine tune or even completely change the profits for individual products.
SmugMug Support Hero
Thanks for replying, Sebastian.
I looked through this thread and based on your response #2, I agree with everyone else for whom figuring out percentages to arrive at a desired price will create major headaches.
On the "create" page what percentage would you suggest putting as a starting point? Percentages on small prints vs. large prints, for example, will vary widely. The 400 percent example on the Help create page would translate into a $.21 base-cost photo being sold at under $1 while 400 percent of a super-sized print might be astronomical for most buyers. I hate math, but that is just common sense.
I really appreciate the SM heroes who have helped me on many occasions, but whoever created this, IMO, didn't think it through. Plugging in a final price and having it immediately convert onscreen to a percentage - AND vice versa - shouldn't be that difficult a program to create in Silicon Valley in 2012.
Susan
Up Close With Mother Nature: The Photography of Susan Wiedmann
You can still set your own prices. The profit percentage is a base starting point - leave it at 400% for example. Suppose you want your 4x6s to be 7.50 for glossy and lustre and then 8.50 for metallic. You just plug in the numbers until you arrive at what you need. Setting the "rounding tool" to .25 in this case gets me where I wanted to be in about 15 seconds.
It's totally possible, it may take you one or two sizes to get fully comfortable but once you've done one or two, you'll be doing the rest in no-time at all.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
But it would take less than 5 seconds to get what you want if we could directly enter final pricing.
Why the extreme resistance to such a simple (and obvious) pricing method?
We have discussed this a few times already. It's just not that simple. Having profit as the fixed value enables a host of other features (foreign currency, add-ons, etc.) in a much better way. It also allows us to negotiate better base costs for prints and pass those changes on to you without destroying your profit margins. As I said before, that aspect of it is unlikely to change.
The part that we still are discussing and tossing ideas around on is the user interface. If the profit value is fixed rather than the final price, the difficulty becomes how the UI would be handled to allow a targeted price while still making it clear that only the profit field remains fixed.
We're a little confused the attention from a few people in this thread that, from looking at their SmugMug sites, have rarely set prices and sold prints. At worst, this is an inconvenience, and from our overall feedback, only for a vocal minority. Pros can still get the prices they want, it's just more time-consuming if they think more about the final price than the profit. We definitely empathize with that inconvenience and we are actively trying to figure out a UI that would eliminate it while still making it clear that the final price could be subject to change (albeit very rarely if you are pricing in the same currency as the lab).
would be a very much higher % then large prints. Maybe a curved profit line set by entering % for small
and a % for largest?
My Website index | My Blog
That's a great suggestion, Allen. Thanks.
It seems a few people are also getting held up believing that the percentage is the only way to enter profits when they are mostly intended as a starting point. We're looking into ways to make that more clear as well.
REALLY PERCENTAGE PROFIT IS ONT THE ONLY WAY...SO i CAN QUIT WORRYING ABOUT IT AND GO RIGHT AHEAD AND JUST ENTER A FIXED PRICE.....CAUSE THAT IS THE ONLYU OTHER ALT. THAT IS LOGICAL AND ACTUALLY THE ONLY OTHER CHOICE.... ??????????????????????????????????
tOATALLY FIXED PRICES ARE THE Best starting point not pecentage points...let the software compute the damn percentage of profit...and allow us to enter fixed princes...my accountant could care less about my profit percentage or pricing...she even thinks this is BS!!!
IWANT TO KILL ALL AND I DO MEAN ALL OF MY PRICES ON MY GALLERIES..BEFORE ALL i NEEDED TO DO WAS CLICK ON PORTFOLIO AND THEN IT WAS DONE....I DO NOT WANT 1 SINGLE THING TO BE SELLABLE ON MY SITE...HOW DO I NOW ACCOMPLISH THIS? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ?
But the profit-based system allows for things like price changes, lab sales (rare) increases in price as needed (remember we haven't done that in forever but may need to at some point) foreign currency and other things.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
If you want to not sell anything on your site, perhaps the best thing to do is to set printing off for your galleries?
You surely can set all items to $0 now, and you won't sell anything, as you have been.
Again, we can help, just email or chat with our heroes, we can help you do this if you like.
Hi, Art.
You can accomplish this now. Use the steps I posted just above. Want $7.50 for 4x6 glossy and lustre? Sure, do it. When (and if) we announce Lab sales, where the price is lower to you, then your price will come down (and you can re-adjust if you want, or just leave it). When (and if ever) we have to raise prices, then you can re-adjust if you want.
You can do this now, but you seem to not be interested in doing so
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
FEELS JUST LIKE THE SAME SLAM THAT WAS POSTED A FEW DAYS AGO COMPARING THE ALLEDGED SILENT MAJORITY TO US VOCAL LOW TO NO SALES PEOPLE.........DAMN RIGH i HAVE NOT SOLD ANYTHING THRU MY WEBSITE...BUT OFF MY WEBSITE IS TOTALLY FRIGGIN DIFFERNT... BUT WE NEED THE OPTION AND BEING ABLE TO ADJUST BY PERCENT IS NOT ....IS NOT.....IS NOT THE EASIEST SOLUTION...... WHEN i HAVE ACCOUNTANTS AND BUSINESS PHD'S TELLING ME THAT THIS SYSTEM STINKS...I COME TO BELIEVE THEM MORE THAN I DO WHAT I SEE THE VERY FEW PEOPLE THAT JUST LOVE THIS SYSTEM......WE ALL KNOW THAT IF ONE IS GETTING PAID BY SMUGMUG THEY ARE NOT GOING TO ROCK THE BOAT... ... .... THE OPTION FOR CLIENTS TO BUY OFF THE SITE IS POSSIBLE IN CASE SOMETHING HAPPENS THAT I AM UNABLE TO FULL FILL THEIR ORDERS ... ... ...NOT AFTER THIS WEEK ...BUT i CAN STILL DOWNLOAD AND FTP TO MY PROFESSIONAL LAB THAT ALWAYS GIVES ME AT LEATS A 90 DAYS NOTICE FOR PRICE INCREASES.....GIVE YOUR TOO LAZY TO DO THAT I NO LONGER NEED TO EVEN OFFER ORDERS THRU SMUGMUG...I CAN DO AS i HAVE BEEN, GIVE PERSONAL CUSTOMER SERVICE TAKE ORDERS BY EMAIL AND MAIL THE ORDERRS OUT MYSELF...AT LEAST IT IS PERSONAL SERVICE, WHETHER TO MY NEIGHBOR NEXT DOOR OR MY CLIENTS IN rIGA, pRAGUE bERLIN OR jOHANNESBURG... YEAH i LOST SOME SALES 6YRS AGO WHEN I CAME HERE DUE TO SMUGMUG'S LACK OF INTEREST IN FOREIGN CURRENCY TRANSACTIONS BUT WITH INSTANT MESSAGING AND EMAIL AND A FRIEND IN PRAGUE THAT LENDED A HAND...WE ARE NOT WORRIED ABOUT YOUR IMPLEMENTING FOREIGN CURRENCY OR EVEN FTP ANY MORE..... ... I will turn off the ability to purchase thru the site... ... and I could careless about any of the other things i have needed for 6 yrs and that many others needed.....
Art, you can set individual values.
This is very easy with Pricelists or with gallery settings. To do it with Pricelists, just create a new Pricelist without choosing any products to be available. Make it your portfolio and either delete or make sure the other Pricelists are not applied to any galleries or photos.
You can always have us do that if you want to.
You can.
Simply don't force the new system on us until you fix it.