We have discussed this a few times already. It's just not that simple. Having profit as the fixed value enables a host of other features (foreign currency, add-ons, etc.) in a much better way. It also allows us to negotiate better base costs for prints and pass those changes on to you without destroying your profit margins. As I said before, that aspect of it is unlikely to change.
The part that we still are discussing and tossing ideas around on is the user interface. If the profit value is fixed rather than the final price, the difficulty becomes how the UI would be handled to allow a targeted price while still making it clear that only the profit field remains fixed.
But it really IS that simple.
Allow the Pro to decide which is the fixed value (final price or profit).
If profit (hell, make it the default since it would be the opposite of what I want it would keep with the trend) then the system works as you seem to think it should.
If final price is fixed then profit fluctuates with the variables you mentioned (currency, prices fluctuations, etc). To handle the upside down pricing (lower final price than cost + SM charges) give the Pro one of two options, automatic disabling of items that go upside down, or the Pro agrees to cover the difference via C.C. on file.
We're a little confused the attention from a few people in this thread that, from looking at their SmugMug sites, have rarely set prices and sold prints. At worst, this is an inconvenience, and from our overall feedback, only for a vocal minority. Pros can still get the prices they want, it's just more time-consuming if they think more about the final price than the profit. We definitely empathize with that inconvenience and we are actively trying to figure out a UI that would eliminate it while still making it clear that the final price could be subject to change (albeit very rarely if you are pricing in the same currency as the lab).
Admittedly, I rarely mess with pricing, but I do sell photos (over 3100 to date). But it's nice to see how you qualify feedback.
The biggest inconvenience (to me) with this new system is the possibility that my customers will see fluctuating prices.
Until you released this half baked system, thinking about final price was THE ONLY WAY. You taught us to do it this way with the original system, why be surprised when some decide they prefer it?
I see this going much the same way as most of the other "improvements" that get jammed down our throats (square thumbs, facebook integration, mobile interface, etc). You guys released a feature without totally thinking it through, and without giving existing users (who are perfectly happy with the way things work RIGHT NOW) a way to disable or otherwise opt-out. It will probably happen eventually, but not without consistent and continued pressure from the "vocal minority".
You guys need to leave price lists as opt-in until it can support fixed final price or profit. Take the end of February forced cut-over off the table.
Hi Art, no intention to slam, at all - I'm sorry I've upset you, I just wanted to help. Happy to have a Hero give you personal step-by-step on any of this, too, if you wish. Just say the word.
Have to say I agree with mbellot here - it would be better to allow the pro to make the choice - fixed final price or profit.
I can't see how a pro can produce a printed price list otherwise. I also don't think it looks good to say to your customer "your prints will cost about €xxx - but you'll have to look at the site to see the actual price - oh, and by the way, the price might be different tomorrow".
I do realise that if the underlying currency is not the buying currency, then some allowance will have to be made in the pricing for currency fluctuations (where 'fixed final price' is used).
Then if the currencies shift significantly over time, then the final price will again need adjustment.
Of course, another solution would be to have labs where the underlying pricing was already in the selling currency
You can still set your own prices. The profit percentage is a base starting point - leave it at 400% for example. Suppose you want your 4x6s to be 7.50 for glossy and lustre and then 8.50 for metallic. You just plug in the numbers until you arrive at what you need. Setting the "rounding tool" to .25 in this case gets me where I wanted to be in about 15 seconds.
It's totally possible, it may take you one or two sizes to get fully comfortable but once you've done one or two, you'll be doing the rest in no-time at all.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I cannot set a 5x7 at $7. I have to go in and set the profit and figure out what amount of profit would equal the final price of $7. It's ridiculous.
This is when my old Staff Sargeant would have said, "Lieutenant, yer gittin' yer belt loop caught on the doorknob there..." Is it really that difficult or riduculous?
No, it is not.
Sure it would take less time to just drop in a final price, but the time I spent adjusting my first default pricelist after migrating, way back then, was maybe two hours. Two very well spent hours that needed to be spent anyway, evaluating the real price levels I wanted to go with.
Since then, the ease of creating a new pricelist has enabled me to copy the default, quickly make the tweeks needed for this or that special venue, and move on to use it.
MUCH better then what was in place before.
And.. Those of us who just "did it" and moved on are not necessarily lemurs who don't know any better and who would just do whatever Smugmug says. Besides, my CPA would attest that I rarely do what she asks anyway..
Edited Added comments:I don't put anything over a 16x20, rarely sold anyway, on my pricelist, and anyway, my profit is set up so that the cost could change quite a bit and not effect what the customer sees in the buy section. Anything outside of that is quoted at the time for a direct sale to the customer, so it really wouldn't matter what they would have seen in the buy cart..
Pricelists... bass ackwards
alright SM.... I get the new price lists... but I don't get it. I know what you're trying to do (making sure our profit stays the same). But how about my sanity?
Never in my life have I ever priced anything based on profit down to the penny. I know we can round and specify a percentage.... But this is the most backwards way of setting prices I've ever seen.
Percentage doesn't ever work because I'd say most of us don't go on exact percentage. We price different items to steer our customers to buy items with better margins. But we all know that there are loss leaders... it's business. Ok so percentage doesn't work.
Rounding... well this works to a point. But just let me type in $30. Not $24...oops that = $28. Ok $26.. opps that equals $31. $25.75.... ok finally $30.
I would MUCH rather type in $30 or $29.99 or what I want to charge. With the knowledge that if it sells in the US i'll make $29.99 less 15%, less cost. And if it sells in AUS it's $29.99 less conversion, less 15%, less cost. It's the cost of doing business. Some transactions cost more then others. But it is easier to price.
I think a lot of us have been in the business long enough to know how much we want to sell an 8x10 for. That's just how much it get's sold for because we know that the customer will buy it. Of course I care what the bottom line is... but to make me dial in $30 with trial, error, and rounding is costing me more in time then the $0.10 I would have lost in an exchange rate.
Not liking the confines of the Price Lists at ALL. As a photographer who also sells on various POD sites, even when those sites offer the choice of pricing by my profit or pricing by final price .... 9 times out of 10 I price by final price point. It's the price I quote to my clients and the how I want to EASILY update my prices. This profit % input ONLY really bites : (-
Pricelists
I do not like the new system. I liked it better before. I actually sell a few photos here, not a lot, but my busniess model will not be the same as most others. I would be happier with a decision tree that would allow me to arrange different galleries into different 'buckets' easily. I am willing to hang with you guys, but can you make it easier for me?
Dave
With the end of February looming soon I guess I need to ask two questions...
Has there been any change in the switchover deadline, or an imminent change to price lists that will support directly setting the final cost (like before)?
Assuming the answer(s) to #1 are no (a safe assumption based on the SM tone in this thread) my next question is this...
What happens to those of us who haven't migrated (including the 95% you claim don't read their email)?
I set up a test account last week and I can honestly say that the way price lists work right now is simply dreadful. You can't seriously force this on everyone in it's current state.
With the end of February looming soon I guess I need to ask two questions...
Has there been any change in the switchover deadline, or an imminent change to price lists that will support directly setting the final cost (like before)?
Assuming the answer(s) to #1 are no (a safe assumption based on the SM tone in this thread) my next question is this...
What happens to those of us who haven't migrated (including the 95% you claim don't read their email)?
I set up a test account last week and I can honestly say that the way price lists work right now is simply dreadful. You can't seriously force this on everyone in it's current state.
I have a feeling once this is forced on all users if it isn't changed, smugmug support is going to be paying overtime.
With the end of February looming soon I guess I need to ask two questions...
Has there been any change in the switchover deadline, or an imminent change to price lists that will support directly setting the final cost (like before)?
Assuming the answer(s) to #1 are no (a safe assumption based on the SM tone in this thread) my next question is this...
What happens to those of us who haven't migrated (including the 95% you claim don't read their email)?
I set up a test account last week and I can honestly say that the way price lists work right now is simply dreadful. You can't seriously force this on everyone in it's current state.
Can you please tell me how you set up a pricelist "test account?" Thanks!
I figured out how pricing products should work. Here are the steps:
Select Products, Prices, and Currency.
Choose the currency tab where your products are located.
Select the vendor partner, which contains the product whose prices you wish to change.
For the items you would like to edit, uncheck the Use Formula box on the far right.
Type a dollar amount in the Profit field and the Selling Price field will be updated immediately. Or, type a dollar amount in the Selling Price field and the Profit field will be updated immediately.
Can you please tell me how you set up a pricelist "test account?" Thanks!
Just use a different email address. I'm not even sure it has to be valid, but since I have several between home and work it wasn't hard to find a real one.
Upload a handful of pics, start messing with price lists and then prepare to lose your mind.
Just use a different email address. I'm not even sure it has to be valid, but since I have several between home and work it wasn't hard to find a real one.
Upload a handful of pics, start messing with price lists and then prepare to lose your mind.
With the end of February looming soon I guess I need to ask two questions...
Has there been any change in the switchover deadline, or an imminent change to price lists that will support directly setting the final cost (like before)?
We've been actively debating and discussing, and we do expect to make some changes and enhancements, once things are finalized we'll report back.
So will we have a reprieve from mandatory switchover to the new system until these "changes and enhancements" are finalized?
That is being discussed. Thanks for your patience while all this goes on. At the same time we're trying to get some VERY exciting things done and dusted and out the door
BaldyRegistered Users, Super ModeratorsPosts: 2,853moderator
edited February 21, 2012
Hey everyone,
Right now we're testing a modification that looks like this:
Testing doesn't mean for sure we'll ship it that way or at all because a lot happens during user testing & feedback, but unless you barf this is looking likely.
It gives you the choice of entering either price or profit directly, since we have, erem, passionate devotees of both approaches.
There are tradeoffs for each. I mentioned one for setting prices, which is as currencies fluctuate, so will your margins. Another is in the event when we have to change prices, your margins will change unless you change your prices. And on the rare SKU where we have to raise the price and the pro's selling price is below the new wholesale (for pros who price a few cents over, typically), we will have to raise their price if the pro doesn't respond to our notices (and with this option they won't have to).
This change is what I was asking for in my post. Let me decide what is applicable. What would be nice is if I could do a set markup of X% and then freeze the prices, so I don't have to go through everything to set the static price. Still haven't sold anything but I can hope.
This change is what I was asking for in my post. Let me decide what is applicable. What would be nice is if I could do a set markup of X% and then freeze the prices, so I don't have to go through everything to set the static price. Still haven't sold anything but I can hope.
For now, if this becomes real (it should), you can set the price! That's what you and others have been asking for
Right now we're testing a modification that looks like this:
Testing doesn't mean for sure we'll ship it that way or at all because a lot happens during user testing & feedback, but unless you barf this is looking likely.
It gives you the choice of entering either price or profit directly, since we have, erem, passionate devotees of both approaches.
There are tradeoffs for each. I mentioned one for setting prices, which is as currencies fluctuate, so will your margins. Another is in the event when we have to change prices, your margins will change unless you change your prices. And on the rare SKU where we have to raise the price and the pro's selling price is below the new wholesale (for pros who price a few cents over, typically), we will have to raise their price if the pro doesn't respond to our notices (and with this option they won't have to).
Will this work for the majority?
No more calls please we have a Winner!! Yes this works for me!! Thank you so much!!
Right now we're testing a modification that looks like this:
[snip]
Will this work for the majority?
barb
Simply beautiful.
One simplification I could see would be to make an individual price list either profit driven OR price driven, and not allow mingling like you show in your example. Unless it's easier (for you) to mingle, then go for it.
The only other (slightly OT) requests would be an easy way to set prices on categories to zero (ie. "compact camera" and "other" sizes, but generally for any major category), along with making sure that any new items get added to a price list as "unavailable".
Comments
But it really IS that simple.
Allow the Pro to decide which is the fixed value (final price or profit).
If profit (hell, make it the default since it would be the opposite of what I want it would keep with the trend) then the system works as you seem to think it should.
If final price is fixed then profit fluctuates with the variables you mentioned (currency, prices fluctuations, etc). To handle the upside down pricing (lower final price than cost + SM charges) give the Pro one of two options, automatic disabling of items that go upside down, or the Pro agrees to cover the difference via C.C. on file.
Admittedly, I rarely mess with pricing, but I do sell photos (over 3100 to date). But it's nice to see how you qualify feedback.
The biggest inconvenience (to me) with this new system is the possibility that my customers will see fluctuating prices.
Until you released this half baked system, thinking about final price was THE ONLY WAY. You taught us to do it this way with the original system, why be surprised when some decide they prefer it?
I see this going much the same way as most of the other "improvements" that get jammed down our throats (square thumbs, facebook integration, mobile interface, etc). You guys released a feature without totally thinking it through, and without giving existing users (who are perfectly happy with the way things work RIGHT NOW) a way to disable or otherwise opt-out. It will probably happen eventually, but not without consistent and continued pressure from the "vocal minority".
You guys need to leave price lists as opt-in until it can support fixed final price or profit. Take the end of February forced cut-over off the table.
Hi Art, no intention to slam, at all - I'm sorry I've upset you, I just wanted to help. Happy to have a Hero give you personal step-by-step on any of this, too, if you wish. Just say the word.
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I can't see how a pro can produce a printed price list otherwise. I also don't think it looks good to say to your customer "your prints will cost about €xxx - but you'll have to look at the site to see the actual price - oh, and by the way, the price might be different tomorrow".
I do realise that if the underlying currency is not the buying currency, then some allowance will have to be made in the pricing for currency fluctuations (where 'fixed final price' is used).
Then if the currencies shift significantly over time, then the final price will again need adjustment.
Of course, another solution would be to have labs where the underlying pricing was already in the selling currency
http://photos.frankcourtney.com/
Wedding Photographer Dublin
Maybe I wasn't clear. I cannot set a 5x7 at $7. I have to go in and set the profit and figure out what amount of profit would equal the final price of $7. It's ridiculous.
No, it is not.
Sure it would take less time to just drop in a final price, but the time I spent adjusting my first default pricelist after migrating, way back then, was maybe two hours. Two very well spent hours that needed to be spent anyway, evaluating the real price levels I wanted to go with.
Since then, the ease of creating a new pricelist has enabled me to copy the default, quickly make the tweeks needed for this or that special venue, and move on to use it.
MUCH better then what was in place before.
And.. Those of us who just "did it" and moved on are not necessarily lemurs who don't know any better and who would just do whatever Smugmug says. Besides, my CPA would attest that I rarely do what she asks anyway..
Edited Added comments:I don't put anything over a 16x20, rarely sold anyway, on my pricelist, and anyway, my profit is set up so that the cost could change quite a bit and not effect what the customer sees in the buy section. Anything outside of that is quoted at the time for a direct sale to the customer, so it really wouldn't matter what they would have seen in the buy cart..
www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..
alright SM.... I get the new price lists... but I don't get it. I know what you're trying to do (making sure our profit stays the same). But how about my sanity?
Never in my life have I ever priced anything based on profit down to the penny. I know we can round and specify a percentage.... But this is the most backwards way of setting prices I've ever seen.
Percentage doesn't ever work because I'd say most of us don't go on exact percentage. We price different items to steer our customers to buy items with better margins. But we all know that there are loss leaders... it's business. Ok so percentage doesn't work.
Rounding... well this works to a point. But just let me type in $30. Not $24...oops that = $28. Ok $26.. opps that equals $31. $25.75.... ok finally $30.
I would MUCH rather type in $30 or $29.99 or what I want to charge. With the knowledge that if it sells in the US i'll make $29.99 less 15%, less cost. And if it sells in AUS it's $29.99 less conversion, less 15%, less cost. It's the cost of doing business. Some transactions cost more then others. But it is easier to price.
I think a lot of us have been in the business long enough to know how much we want to sell an 8x10 for. That's just how much it get's sold for because we know that the customer will buy it. Of course I care what the bottom line is... but to make me dial in $30 with trial, error, and rounding is costing me more in time then the $0.10 I would have lost in an exchange rate.
I do not like the new system. I liked it better before. I actually sell a few photos here, not a lot, but my busniess model will not be the same as most others. I would be happier with a decision tree that would allow me to arrange different galleries into different 'buckets' easily. I am willing to hang with you guys, but can you make it easier for me?
Dave
Alpha 99 & VG, 900x2 & VG; 50mm1.4, CZ135 1.8; CZ16-35 2.8, CZ24-70 2.8, G70-200 2.8, G70-400, Sony TC 1.4, F20, F58, F60.
Has there been any change in the switchover deadline, or an imminent change to price lists that will support directly setting the final cost (like before)?
Assuming the answer(s) to #1 are no (a safe assumption based on the SM tone in this thread) my next question is this...
What happens to those of us who haven't migrated (including the 95% you claim don't read their email)?
I set up a test account last week and I can honestly say that the way price lists work right now is simply dreadful. You can't seriously force this on everyone in it's current state.
I have a feeling once this is forced on all users if it isn't changed, smugmug support is going to be paying overtime.
Can you please tell me how you set up a pricelist "test account?" Thanks!
Up Close With Mother Nature: The Photography of Susan Wiedmann
--- Denise
Musings & ramblings at https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com
- Select Products, Prices, and Currency.
- Choose the currency tab where your products are located.
- Select the vendor partner, which contains the product whose prices you wish to change.
- For the items you would like to edit, uncheck the Use Formula box on the far right.
- Type a dollar amount in the Profit field and the Selling Price field will be updated immediately. Or, type a dollar amount in the Selling Price field and the Profit field will be updated immediately.
Ok I didn't figure that out. I copied that from Zenfolio's help. http://www.zenfolio.com/zf/help/selling-your-work/price-lists/setting-prices . They seem to have figured it out though! They must be laughing all the way to the bank reading this thread.Smugmug, copy everything good about Zenfolio. Keep what's good about Smugmug. That's the formula for success.
Dave
Just use a different email address. I'm not even sure it has to be valid, but since I have several between home and work it wasn't hard to find a real one.
Upload a handful of pics, start messing with price lists and then prepare to lose your mind.
please!!!
Thanks for replying! Good luck.
Up Close With Mother Nature: The Photography of Susan Wiedmann
Thanks, Denise!
Up Close With Mother Nature: The Photography of Susan Wiedmann
We've been actively debating and discussing, and we do expect to make some changes and enhancements, once things are finalized we'll report back.
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Wonderful.
So will we have a reprieve from mandatory switchover to the new system until these "changes and enhancements" are finalized?
That is being discussed. Thanks for your patience while all this goes on. At the same time we're trying to get some VERY exciting things done and dusted and out the door
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Right now we're testing a modification that looks like this:
Testing doesn't mean for sure we'll ship it that way or at all because a lot happens during user testing & feedback, but unless you barf this is looking likely.
It gives you the choice of entering either price or profit directly, since we have, erem, passionate devotees of both approaches.
There are tradeoffs for each. I mentioned one for setting prices, which is as currencies fluctuate, so will your margins. Another is in the event when we have to change prices, your margins will change unless you change your prices. And on the rare SKU where we have to raise the price and the pro's selling price is below the new wholesale (for pros who price a few cents over, typically), we will have to raise their price if the pro doesn't respond to our notices (and with this option they won't have to).
Will this work for the majority?
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For now, if this becomes real (it should), you can set the price! That's what you and others have been asking for
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Even if we do not do this, YOU can set by price. Which is what you wished for, yes?
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No more calls please we have a Winner!! Yes this works for me!! Thank you so much!!
www.phabulousphotos.com
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http://www.sportsshooter.com/members.html?id=10162
Promise?
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Simply beautiful.
One simplification I could see would be to make an individual price list either profit driven OR price driven, and not allow mingling like you show in your example. Unless it's easier (for you) to mingle, then go for it.
The only other (slightly OT) requests would be an easy way to set prices on categories to zero (ie. "compact camera" and "other" sizes, but generally for any major category), along with making sure that any new items get added to a price list as "unavailable".
You guys truly rock!
I'm sorry it is not - I wish I had a better answer for you on this! I will take it as a suggestion though.
www.phabulousphotos.com
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