I think it was Ansel Adams who said the print is not finished until the corners are burned in, and I certainly tend to agree, but I think these corners look too dark for my taste - they seem to call attention to themselves. They should be just dark enough to keep the eye from wandering off the page. Maybe Edit - Fade a little bit? Or maybe an overlay of medium black layer blended with Overlay. I like that technique a lot that I picked up form someone( who might that be??) here
I would blurr the white building to the right perhaps also, or maybe use the burn tool to burn down the highlights in it a bit. The lightness is distracting there.
I like the repetition of the call boxes, and the lines of the posts supporting them, and I agree with the simplicity of B&W.
That particular subtle orange is beautiful IMO. I prefer it 100%.
It kind of looks like a duotone. I will try to remember this when picking my colors, never know............ this is really nice.
ginger
Thank you Ginger - It is very hard for me to evaluate this image - It is technically good, but I am not sure it connects for me emotionally and I wondered if that is how other viewers see it also.
Kind of lonely perhaps, Orange sky with a sepia foreground. Maybe it needs a solitary bicyclist or something.
Only needs lines or curves, not necessary to have both, Ginge. I quite like the lines of the wing. Perhaps a little cropping, Sandy?
I have been intepreting the challenge as "Lines and Curves", but when I rechecked Andy's original post I see you are correct, waxy. Lines OR Curves - Not necessary to have both. Does this mean Rutt's cheeky image is disqualified?
I think it was Ansel Adams who said the print is not finished until the corners are burned in, and I certainly tend to agree, but I think these corners look too dark for my taste - they seem to call attention to themselves. They should be just dark enough to keep the eye from wandering off the page. Maybe Edit - Fade a little bit? Or maybe an overlay of medium black layer blended with Overlay. I like that technique a lot that I picked up form someone( who might that be??) here
I would blurr the white building to the right perhaps also, or maybe use the burn tool to burn down the highlights in it a bit. The lightness is distracting there.
Thanks mate. I agree, the vignetting is a little obvious. I'll tone it down a bit. Knowhatcha mean about the white building, I've been knocking it down. I made it grey in the non-vignette version of the photo on the previous page of this thread.
And thanks for the technical suggestions, I shall try them. I've been making a layer of black then erasing it with a brush.
I liked the lines and curves in this street trolley As I look at the picture I see Reflections and Motion too. Do I get extra points for incorperating old challenges? . I need all the help I can get.
Most water is not this color blue, in a labratory somewhere maybe, but PS likes to turn mine like this, too.
Just that comment. Frustrating.
ginger
Maybe there is water that blue, but it looks kind of funny to me with the grey sky. If there is blue sky, it might help, but I would try to get some grey in that water, or move to the Bahamas.
I've been offline for a few days, I have to go back and see what everyone as posted. That one up there looks pretty nice. Here's a couple that I snagged this weekend in Portsmouth, NH. Comments welcome. Thanks!
Maybe there is water that blue, but it looks kind of funny to me with the grey sky. If there is blue sky, it might help, but I would try to get some grey in that water, or move to the Bahamas.
g
Actually Ginger, I really didn't do anything to the water. Small saturation bump, but it pretty much was that color off the camera. I don't know why the sky is so light considering it was sunset (the sun was behind me). I tried to tone the sky but everything I try looks terrible. So I added some grey to the water, and warmed up the bridge a touch. Here's the original followed by the latest; I'll probably leave it this way unless you guys think there's a problem.
Well, it was a little painful, but I realize that Andy has taught me something about competing in photo contests with themes. On message is really an objective thing, like being on key. When you are really on message, there is no arguing with it. One thing I know for sure about "rutt's butt" is that the judges are not going to say that they don't see the lines and curves. It might not be a finalist for other reasons, but not that reason. There really is no room for disagreement. It's a picutre of lines and curves.
Contrast this with the child portrait (probably a better picture) or the lane in town after the rain. Well, OK, these have lines and curves. And I suppose I'd be miffed if I entered one and the judges said it wasn't on message. But I can see how this would happen. There is room for reasonable people to differ. This was true of the Yellowstone shot from the reflections challenge as well. And I suppose I have to admit (grudgingly) that it was also true of the fog man picture from the QOL challenge.
I suppose I'm left with a question. What about the daisy?
Forget for a minute about the quality of this shot (and the fact that Ginger has found some interesting crops of it.) Is this on message for Lines & Curves? Is there room for reasonable people to differ? I don't think so, but I'm still learning (and trying to overcome a tin ear, apparently.) I'd especially like to hear from Andy.
Not that I agree here with cmr, but maybe a little longer focal length might accomplish that for ya. Ya think, cmr?
Was this a wide angle lens waxy?
Thanks cmr, Path', I treid mightily to close the gap. I was shooting with a 24-70, and I couldn't get the right angle. That's one of two reasons why these won't get submitted. I did shoot the other side of these at 70, it seemed to help compress things. Maybe I'll go back and shoot this side of them at 70 as well. Even if that works, the shot's still missing the second level of story telling, IMHO.
Maybe there is water that blue, but it looks kind of funny to me with the grey sky. If there is blue sky, it might help, but I would try to get some grey in that water, or move to the Bahamas.
g
That doesn't look like a grey sky to me, Ginger, it looks like a blue sky late in the day with a very thin layer of clouds.
Forget for a minute about the quality of this shot (and the fact that Ginger has found some interesting crops of it.) Is this on message for Lines & Curves? Is there room for reasonable people to differ? I don't think so, but I'm still learning (and trying to overcome a tin eary, apparently.) I'd especially like to hear from Andy.
While Andy does his day job, may I offer an opinion? As it stands right now, it qualifies, but barely. I think that way because while the subject of the shot has curves, those curves aren't the dominant thing about the shot. If the flower filled the frame in a way that emphasised the curves of the petals or the roundness of the middle part (stamen?) than it would be about the shape, not just a literal presentation of an object. i.e. The subject awaits interpretation.
rutt's daisy
i think you can do better, much better in the lines and curves department. yes, there are curves. yes, it's a pretty flower, too. nice water drops. but you are not stretching yourself here with this photograph.
i wouldn't pick this one as a finalist. you asked me to jump in, so here i am, two feet, jumping in.
good on you, though, for continuing to shoot! keep going
Well, it was a little painful, but I realize that Andy has taught me something about competing in photo contests with themes. On message is really an objective thing, like being on key. When you are really on message, there is no arguing with it. One thing I know for sure about "rutt's butt" is that the judges are not going to say that they don't see the lines and curves. It might not be a finalist for other reasons, but not that reason. There really is no room for disagreement. It's a picutre of lines and curves.
Contrast this with the child portrait (probably a better picture) or the lane in town after the rain. Well, OK, these have lines and curves. And I suppose I'd be miffed if I entered one and the judges said it wasn't on message. But I can see how this would happen. There is room for reasonable people to differ. This was true of the Yellowstone shot from the reflections challenge as well. And I suppose I have to admit (grudgingly) that it was also true of the fog man picture from the QOL challenge.
I suppose I'm left with a question. What about the daisy?
Forget for a minute about the quality of this shot (and the fact that Ginger has found some interesting crops of it.) Is this on message for Lines & Curves? Is there room for reasonable people to differ? I don't think so, but I'm still learning (and trying to overcome a tin ear, apparently.) I'd especially like to hear from Andy.
While Andy does his day job, may I offer an opinion? As it stands right now, it qualifies, but barely. I think that way because while the subject of the shot has curves, those curves aren't the dominant thing about the shot. If the flower filled the frame in a way that emphasised the curves of the petals or the roundness of the middle part (stamen?) than it would be about the shape, not just a literal presentation of an object. i.e. The subject awaits interpretation.
How's that sound?
Sounds pretty good, but Ginger's crops address some of these issues. I suppose the answer is that even with those crops, there is still room for reasonable people to differ as to whether it's on message.
Sounds pretty good, but Ginger's crops address some of these issues.
Agreed, but you asked for an evaluation excluding Ginger's crops. I think her work puts the shot a lot more on target. FWIW I've spent several hours and a few hundred frames roaming for shots and have yet to make a shot worthy of submission.
Sounds pretty good, but Ginger's crops address some of these issues. I suppose the answer is that even with those crops, there is still room for reasonable people to differ as to whether it's on message.
I may or may not be seen as being "reasonable" depends on my mood but I agree with Andy that whilst this is a nice daisy you still have time to find a shot that stretches you more in the lines and curves focus department. It funny is'nt it how certain assignments suddenly become difficult.. I had the same problem with this one. I mean there are lines and curves everywhere but not the ones I want. Keep at it Rutty.
Don't tell my wife, but I for one could play with this image for days. It's has a level of fun that my usual shots just don't have.
I don't want to monopolize the air time with fine tuning this shot. I think it's worth fine tuning and I think that this particular shot needs a kind of fine tuning I don't really know how to do. I'll try to get that help elsewhere, perhaps on the PS forum. But I'd like a little feedback on a couple of major moves here before I take it elsewhere.
So here is the original, basically right out of the camera:
I agree with Jim (aka Pathfinder) that the arm is a distracting element. I didn't like it when I was shooting, but I couldn't get her to stand comfortably with it out of the way. So here is the first move, PS the arm away:
Better or worse? I think better and more sexy (in this case more sexy equals better.) Am I right?
OK, now there is the issue of the background. Both Sid and Jim think it's distracting and I do agree. But I want a little context. She is at the beach and she is looking out at the ocean. But maybe the sand isn't working. No lines and curves there, really either. So what about losing the sand and keeping the waves:
Is this on the right track? The waves could be muted pretty easily, but brushing over them with a low opacity brush, but let's relegate that question to the fine tuning discussion. Did losing the sand and keeping the waves improve the image? Am I on the right track here?
Lastly there is the issue of making her look a little better (gee, I'm not sure that really is necessary.) A little blur seems to fix a few blemishes and make the whole image stronger (this is very strange for me, coming as I do from the Dan Margulis school of oversharpening with a stiletto). It also erases some of the photoshop artifacts (and some I just fixed with local tools). A global blur wouldn't be required for this, though.
So, again, was this a good move? Is the image improved?
So that's it. I'll probably want help in the glamor photography department, but this isn't the place for that. Watch for a PS post. (And/or an appeal to the pros at FM and Dan Margulis' CT mailing list.)
I may or may not be seen as being "reasonable" depends on my mood but I agree with Andy that whilst this is a nice daisy you still have time to find a shot that stretches you more in the lines and curves focus department. It funny is'nt it how certain assignments suddenly become difficult.. I had the same problem with this one. I mean there are lines and curves everywhere but not the ones I want. Keep at it Rutty.
Actually the daisy question academic at this point. "Rutt's Butt" is on target and sooo much fun to play with. There's no chance I'd choose even the best possible crop of the daisy instead. But I just wanted an answer so I could try to heal my tin ear a litle more. At this point, I can when it's right on the money vs on a different planet. The daisy is sort of in the grey area between.
Oh, and...
She was a great found model and I had a lot of fun shooting her. There are more of here (along with some other stuff, some much less appealing) in this prooofsheat gallery. Here is are a few to catch your interest. Let me know if you think one of the others might be a better starting poing. Thank.
I liked the lines and curves in this street trolley As I look at the picture I see Reflections and Motion too. Do I get extra points for incorperating old challenges? . I need all the help I can get.
Tim
Nicely done Tim. Nice effect. Was it Heritage Park?
Very nice, but I'd have to say not squarly on message. Maybe you want to make sure the shadow is really black with some sort of curves move?
Antique care pornography of the first order. I think this is more on mesage, but I'm obvously just learning. Some sort of plate blending move might give the middle car more depth and make its surfaces look more curved. I think I can see your reflection in one of the bumpers, which I don't mind at all, but I think that antique car pornography is sort of a genre like bird pictures and has its own rules. There was quite a discussion sometime back about how to avoid those reflections.
IMHO, lacks the wow you need for a contest. Perhaps there is an interesting crop there somewhere. I think you need to sharpen this baby a lot but with some very sophisticated techniques the rocks look more vivid but the greenry doesn't go insane on you. Ideally, you'd have Dan Margulis' "Professional Photoshop" and read the chapter "Sharpening with a Stiletto". If you don't have the book, don't want to run out and buy it, and still want to work with this image, post on the PS forum and PM me and I'll try to help.
Comments
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
I would blurr the white building to the right perhaps also, or maybe use the burn tool to burn down the highlights in it a bit. The lightness is distracting there.
I like the repetition of the call boxes, and the lines of the posts supporting them, and I agree with the simplicity of B&W.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
Kind of lonely perhaps, Orange sky with a sepia foreground. Maybe it needs a solitary bicyclist or something.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
Thanks mate. I agree, the vignetting is a little obvious. I'll tone it down a bit. Knowhatcha mean about the white building, I've been knocking it down. I made it grey in the non-vignette version of the photo on the previous page of this thread.
And thanks for the technical suggestions, I shall try them. I've been making a layer of black then erasing it with a brush.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
http://lonepine.shutterbugstorefront.com
I liked the lines and curves in this street trolley As I look at the picture I see Reflections and Motion too. Do I get extra points for incorperating old challenges? .
Tim
g
It is 4:15 AM. Best thinking I can do.
g
we will refer to it as "rutt's butt"
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Was this a wide angle lens waxy?
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
Andy, thanks for the Toning Tutorial!
Well, it was a little painful, but I realize that Andy has taught me something about competing in photo contests with themes. On message is really an objective thing, like being on key. When you are really on message, there is no arguing with it. One thing I know for sure about "rutt's butt" is that the judges are not going to say that they don't see the lines and curves. It might not be a finalist for other reasons, but not that reason. There really is no room for disagreement. It's a picutre of lines and curves.
Contrast this with the child portrait (probably a better picture) or the lane in town after the rain. Well, OK, these have lines and curves. And I suppose I'd be miffed if I entered one and the judges said it wasn't on message. But I can see how this would happen. There is room for reasonable people to differ. This was true of the Yellowstone shot from the reflections challenge as well. And I suppose I have to admit (grudgingly) that it was also true of the fog man picture from the QOL challenge.
I suppose I'm left with a question. What about the daisy?
Forget for a minute about the quality of this shot (and the fact that Ginger has found some interesting crops of it.) Is this on message for Lines & Curves? Is there room for reasonable people to differ? I don't think so, but I'm still learning (and trying to overcome a tin ear, apparently.) I'd especially like to hear from Andy.
Thanks cmr, Path', I treid mightily to close the gap. I was shooting with a 24-70, and I couldn't get the right angle. That's one of two reasons why these won't get submitted. I did shoot the other side of these at 70, it seemed to help compress things. Maybe I'll go back and shoot this side of them at 70 as well. Even if that works, the shot's still missing the second level of story telling, IMHO.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
That doesn't look like a grey sky to me, Ginger, it looks like a blue sky late in the day with a very thin layer of clouds.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
While Andy does his day job, may I offer an opinion? As it stands right now, it qualifies, but barely. I think that way because while the subject of the shot has curves, those curves aren't the dominant thing about the shot. If the flower filled the frame in a way that emphasised the curves of the petals or the roundness of the middle part (stamen?) than it would be about the shape, not just a literal presentation of an object. i.e. The subject awaits interpretation.
How's that sound?
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
i think you can do better, much better in the lines and curves department. yes, there are curves. yes, it's a pretty flower, too. nice water drops. but you are not stretching yourself here with this photograph.
i wouldn't pick this one as a finalist. you asked me to jump in, so here i am, two feet, jumping in.
good on you, though, for continuing to shoot! keep going
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Agreed, but you asked for an evaluation excluding Ginger's crops. I think her work puts the shot a lot more on target. FWIW I've spent several hours and a few hundred frames roaming for shots and have yet to make a shot worthy of submission.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
Don't tell my wife, but I for one could play with this image for days. It's has a level of fun that my usual shots just don't have.
I don't want to monopolize the air time with fine tuning this shot. I think it's worth fine tuning and I think that this particular shot needs a kind of fine tuning I don't really know how to do. I'll try to get that help elsewhere, perhaps on the PS forum. But I'd like a little feedback on a couple of major moves here before I take it elsewhere.
So here is the original, basically right out of the camera:
I agree with Jim (aka Pathfinder) that the arm is a distracting element. I didn't like it when I was shooting, but I couldn't get her to stand comfortably with it out of the way. So here is the first move, PS the arm away:
Better or worse? I think better and more sexy (in this case more sexy equals better.) Am I right?
OK, now there is the issue of the background. Both Sid and Jim think it's distracting and I do agree. But I want a little context. She is at the beach and she is looking out at the ocean. But maybe the sand isn't working. No lines and curves there, really either. So what about losing the sand and keeping the waves:
Is this on the right track? The waves could be muted pretty easily, but brushing over them with a low opacity brush, but let's relegate that question to the fine tuning discussion. Did losing the sand and keeping the waves improve the image? Am I on the right track here?
Lastly there is the issue of making her look a little better (gee, I'm not sure that really is necessary.) A little blur seems to fix a few blemishes and make the whole image stronger (this is very strange for me, coming as I do from the Dan Margulis school of oversharpening with a stiletto). It also erases some of the photoshop artifacts (and some I just fixed with local tools). A global blur wouldn't be required for this, though.
So, again, was this a good move? Is the image improved?
So that's it. I'll probably want help in the glamor photography department, but this isn't the place for that. Watch for a PS post. (And/or an appeal to the pros at FM and Dan Margulis' CT mailing list.)
She was a great found model and I had a lot of fun shooting her. There are more of here (along with some other stuff, some much less appealing) in this prooofsheat gallery. Here is are a few to catch your interest. Let me know if you think one of the others might be a better starting poing. Thank.
http://lonepine.shutterbugstorefront.com
Very nice, but I'd have to say not squarly on message. Maybe you want to make sure the shadow is really black with some sort of curves move?
Antique care pornography of the first order. I think this is more on mesage, but I'm obvously just learning. Some sort of plate blending move might give the middle car more depth and make its surfaces look more curved. I think I can see your reflection in one of the bumpers, which I don't mind at all, but I think that antique car pornography is sort of a genre like bird pictures and has its own rules. There was quite a discussion sometime back about how to avoid those reflections.
IMHO, lacks the wow you need for a contest. Perhaps there is an interesting crop there somewhere. I think you need to sharpen this baby a lot but with some very sophisticated techniques the rocks look more vivid but the greenry doesn't go insane on you. Ideally, you'd have Dan Margulis' "Professional Photoshop" and read the chapter "Sharpening with a Stiletto". If you don't have the book, don't want to run out and buy it, and still want to work with this image, post on the PS forum and PM me and I'll try to help.