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*** new comments and critiques procedure ***

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    AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited August 26, 2004
    okay everyone ....
    first of all, thanks for all the detailed help by you guys that are taking the time to provide it - for captions, etc ... okay it's something new for some of us to learn, and no ginger, i'm not only referring to you i promise :D there are plenty of folks that don't know a "break" from an "italic or bold" so this is excellent stuff that we're learning, and it'll help lots of folks.

    does it take a bit longer than the regular c&c thread for the critiquee to put up his or her shots? yeah. but after doing it i think, a couple of times, you'll have it down to about a minute or so per photo, and that's not too much to ask in the long run, is it?

    can we have community spirit? camaraderie? back and forth? you bet we can. the comments flow sequentially. they are on each photo. versus the old c&c thread, where if you missed a day or two, you had a lot of difficulty following along - so for those folks that can only "pop in" once every day or two, this format is going to be really a boon to them.

    remember, sign your comments. don't worry about if you are logged in as your name, or as dgrin, or as whatever - it doesn't matter so long as after your comment and or critique, you simply sign your name, like this -- andy

    i really think this can work - look at evil eggplant's bodie school room pic example - it shows that this works (except he forgot to put his name down as author of the photo, but he won't do that next time)

    keep up the good work everyone, keep shooting those song titles and i promise that after this challenge, we'll assess how this method worked out for everyone, and see what we can do to make it better. we will have a vote towards the end of the challenge after this one, and you will all have a chance to determine which method we use going forward.

    thanks again for your support, help, and participation as we all try something new.
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    gubbsgubbs Registered Users Posts: 3,166 Major grins
    edited August 26, 2004
    Rutts revised "castles in the sand" comes up next to the original, I think that's a ++ thumb.gif.
    Did you have to re-sort the gallery Rutt?
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    lynnmalynnma Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 5,207 Major grins
    edited August 26, 2004
    Final example in real time...
    Arrhuh! thanks...
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    ruttrutt Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited August 26, 2004
    gubbs wrote:
    Rutts revised "castles in the sand" comes up next to the original, I think that's a ++ thumb.gif.
    Did you have to re-sort the gallery Rutt?
    Yes, I used bulk easy move new to move it next to the original.
    If not now, when?
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    ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited August 26, 2004
    Thanks so much for the HTML stuff. I was totally baffled. It is amazing what some of us don't know that others take for granted that we know. I am the same way. Woe be to my husband when he doesn't "know" something obvious, which I guess html is.

    I will print everything out.

    I just got back from taking pictures.

    Lynn, I could use some song titles. I have the artists I like I hate to just hunt for titles from a rapper or something.

    I have old dogs, shrimp boats, Shem Creek (restaurants, shrimp boats, fish, pellicans, kayaks), and a few marsh photos. Songs would be appreciated.

    ginger
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
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    ruttrutt Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited August 26, 2004
    ginger_55 wrote:

    Lynn, I could use some song titles. I have the artists I like I hate to just hunt for titles from a rapper or something.

    I have old dogs, shrimp boats, Shem Creek (restaurants, shrimp boats, fish, pellicans, kayaks), and a few marsh photos. Songs would be appreciated.

    ginger
    A great source is www.allmusic.com. New Orleans music sounds like a good bet. What about Duke Ellington's "Gonna Go Fishin'" It's on this great Dr. John record, "Duke Elegant"
    If not now, when?
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    ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited August 26, 2004
    rutt wrote:
    A great source is www.allmusic.com. New Orleans music sounds like a good bet. What about Duke Ellington's "Gonna Go Fishin'" It's on this great Dr. John record, "Duke Elegant"
    Thanks, Rutt, gonna check out that Dr John thing, no matter, but sure I can use it, just don't know on what.

    Have an eye doctor appt I had forgotten about. Drives me nuts, just uploaded my photos and they look good.

    Want to get one and a song title, can I put one up without a title and ask for suggestions??

    That would not be now, though, as I have to crate the dogs and leave.

    It is cloudy here today, off and on rain, that is why I was shooting at noon, deal with the grey at any time.

    later,
    ginger

    All suggestions still taken. Some are kinda weird to tital, such as a bunch of colorful kayaks, and a man working on his porch on shem creek?? That is valuable property, and it is a shack, just have to show you all the photo.
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
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    AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited August 26, 2004
    gone fishin' by louis armstrong and bing crosby
    it's a great song. louis really belts it and scats ... and bing really croons

    look it up :D
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    SandySandy Registered Users Posts: 762 Major grins
    edited August 26, 2004
    Andy what an ingenious idea, this works better for me. I was overwhelmed with the comments thread and felt bad that I couldn't read through everything.

    This is much cleaner. clap.gif
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    BryanBryan Registered Users Posts: 153 Major grins
    edited August 27, 2004
    I Love It!
    I will be honest, the Critiques threads were getting so long that I was losing interest. I could not keep up with 30, 50 , 70 pages of comments. I wanted to learn from everyones process, but it was so difficult to see who was talking about which picture that I gave up. When I would post a picure, I would have to sort though 10 pages of comments to find 2 or 3 on my picture to see how I could improve my work. That became very fusterating.

    ture I do enjoy the conversation about the pictures, but I was no longer learning from everyones process. Threads that long were just too much to follow. I hope we can have a discussion thread about the comments and critiques, but seeing the comments listed under the photo now, makes it an easier learning experience.
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    AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited August 27, 2004
    multiple iterations of the same photo
    thanks bryan, for your comments.

    i also want to point out, that one of the things that happens in the c&c process, is folks will put up v2, v3, v4 of their pics - and so we see the progression.... we'll NOT delete the old versions, becuase it's so great for all of us to see the comments with the progression of the pics. look in the gallery at spockling's airplane rainbow shots for an example of what i mean.

    use the move tool, when you are signed in as dgrin/dgrinchallenge, and you can move your new versions next to your old versions of your same pics.

    what a learning tool!
    Bryan wrote:
    I will be honest, the Critiques threads were getting so long that I was losing interest. I could not keep up with 30, 50 , 70 pages of comments. I wanted to learn from everyones process, but it was so difficult to see who was talking about which picture that I gave up. When I would post a picure, I would have to sort though 10 pages of comments to find 2 or 3 on my picture to see how I could improve my work. That became very fusterating.

    ture I do enjoy the conversation about the pictures, but I was no longer learning from everyones process. Threads that long were just too much to follow. I hope we can have a discussion thread about the comments and critiques, but seeing the comments listed under the photo now, makes it an easier learning experience.
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    lynnmalynnma Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 5,207 Major grins
    edited August 27, 2004
    andy wrote:
    thanks bryan, for your comments.

    i also want to point out, that one of the things that happens in the c&c process, is folks will put up v2, v3, v4 of their pics - and so we see the progression.... we'll NOT delete the old versions, becuase it's so great for all of us to see the comments with the progression of the pics. look in the gallery at spockling's airplane rainbow shots for an example of what i mean.

    use the move tool, when you are signed in as dgrin/dgrinchallenge, and you can move your new versions next to your old versions of your same pics.

    what a learning tool!
    I must admit.. I'm much happier going to the new cc thread. I'ts not as daunting and much clearer. I also feel a sense of settling with the folks posting there, I think we are getting more comfy with it. I'm enjoying being able to see Spocks work for instance, his three pics. with the improvements, I can flip back and forth so easily to view the difference.. This change is a def. improvement for me. clap.gifclap.gifclap.gif
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    ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited August 27, 2004
    How did Rutt make his shots line up in a progression. Sorry, I don't understand.

    I want to move some in for the songs, without retyping the songs, is that possible?

    ginger
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
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    ruttrutt Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited August 27, 2004
    ginger_55 wrote:
    How did Rutt make his shots line up in a progression. Sorry, I don't understand.

    I want to move some in for the songs, without retyping the songs, is that possible?

    ginger
    When you are logged in as "dgrin" you will find a little box (a pull down menu) under your the selected photo (in this case it doesn't matter which photo is selected.) On the right of the box is an downward pointing arrow. Click on it. You will get a rather longish menu and toward the bottom you will find an item "Move (Bulk, Easy, NEW!!)". You might have to use the a slide on the side of the menu to find this. Anyway, select "Move (Bulk, Easy, NEW!!)" and then you can point at a picture and use the arrow keys to move it around in the gallery. You can move as many of them around as you like until you think it looks right. Then you have to click the "update" button in the help box on the upper left to finalize.

    Hope that helps.

    Baldy, what happens if more than one person does this at once?
    If not now, when?
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    ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited August 27, 2004
    Thanks, Rutt,

    ginger
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
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    ruttrutt Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited August 27, 2004
    Right on deletes/maybe not right on original downloads
    andy wrote:
    i also want to point out, that one of the things that happens in the c&c process, is folks will put up v2, v3, v4 of their pics - and so we see the progression.... we'll NOT delete the old versions, becuase it's so great for all of us to see the comments with the progression of the pics. look in the gallery at spockling's airplane rainbow shots for an example of what i mean.

    use the move tool, when you are signed in as dgrin/dgrinchallenge, and you can move your new versions next to your old versions of your same pics.

    what a learning tool!
    Andy, I get it. Not deleting the old versions is a good idea. I suppose if someone posts something and then really regrets it, s/he can always get you to delete it. It might be good if you shared this super power with another moderator or so.

    On the other hand, the original download thing... Let me make the case. Because this gallery is just for challenge entries, don't upload anything there that you don't want downloaded. I love people to have accesss to my full sized originals and find that most people like to share them with me. But if I had one I didn't want to share, I could resize before uploading. So please can't we turn on original downloads and leave it up to the indivdual uploaders what they want to make public?
    If not now, when?
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    AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited August 27, 2004
    rutt wrote:
    Andy, I get it. Not deleting the old versions is a good idea. I suppose if someone posts something and then really regrets it, s/he can always get you to delete it. It might be good if you shared this super power with another moderator or so.

    On the other hand, the original download thing... Let me make the case. Because this gallery is just for challenge entries, don't upload anything there that you don't want downloaded. I love people to have accesss to my full sized originals and find that most people like to share them with me. But if I had one I didn't want to share, I could resize before uploading. So please can't we turn on original downloads and leave it up to the indivdual uploaders what they want to make public?

    i hear you, rutt. - but - i'm worried. many folks who use smugmug are not used to resizing 800x600 and i'd hate to see someone load up a fs file and then have it pinched, and see it on some stock agency website in two weeks time. you can ask for a link for a fs file, in your comment maybe? and then the shooter can reply with a link - if they chose - personally i worry about things like this - it's *your* work and yeah while i see the benefit or sharing for ps purposes, and learning / sharing etc ... we also should balanced the needs of protecting the artist's work. so maybe you could ask for the fs file, if they want to give it, they can provide a link back to their smugmug gallery eh? would that work as a compromise solution?
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    ruttrutt Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited August 28, 2004
    andy wrote:
    would that work as a compromise solution?
    That's been what I've been doing and it's basically what happens on FM. It works OK, but loses some immediency. Because of my previous points, I'd like to hear a few other voices here. OK, Andy? Let's see if there is a consensus out there?
    If not now, when?
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    AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited August 28, 2004
    the immediacy ...
    rutt wrote:
    That's been what I've been doing and it's basically what happens on FM. It works OK, but loses some immediency. Because of my previous points, I'd like to hear a few other voices here. OK, Andy? Let's see if there is a consensus out there?


    is probably for you, b/c you have ideas etc *now* i understand. the the pics, they belong the shooters, right? so let's see what happens :D
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    ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited August 28, 2004
    re original photos being made available
    I think that anytime a concern about something like this is raised, one has to err on the conservative side. (And I am not, believe me, a conservative, but situations can't make for policy.)

    I know I read at least one concerned post re the originals being available, or seen.

    The problem, as I see it, is if something bad were to happen, Rutt, it would fall kind of in your lap and more directly in dgrin's lap.

    Perhaps, I don't know if this could happen, and I don't know how you get the originals anyway, from the "PSd" posted photos, but perhaps, we could have a choice as to whether each of us wanted this turned on or off individually. I don't know if that is feasable. And I don't talk PC speak, so I don't understand a lot of what is said.

    My photos are up for grabs. I would rather take a chance than wall them off, just more work for me to stand over them and guard them, and I have never worried about being pirated.

    So I would make mine available. But perhaps it could be a legal issue if they were made available, and I was not aware of it. If I were aware of it, and I did not want them made available, I would not post anything. So, that is not an answer, as I see it.

    Anyone can have mine, I don't care, in most circumstances, that I know of. I do have some password galleries, for my own purposes, but if I put them on here, I just do not expect to have my photos stolen (sp?) and sold, I don't live my life like that. I might if I had experienced something like that, though.

    So I would say, for dgrin's, or smugmug's sake, that it is a risk that they can't take, shouldn't, take. If we could individually agree, that seems OK to me. I would agree.

    ginger

    Perhaps you could add a spell check to the system, though.:D
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
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    DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited August 28, 2004
    andy wrote:
    i hear you, rutt. - but - i'm worried. many folks who use smugmug are not used to resizing 800x600 and i'd hate to see someone load up a fs file and then have it pinched, and see it on some stock agency website in two weeks time. you can ask for a link for a fs file, in your comment maybe? and then the shooter can reply with a link - if they chose - personally i worry about things like this - it's *your* work and yeah while i see the benefit or sharing for ps purposes, and learning / sharing etc ... we also should balanced the needs of protecting the artist's work. so maybe you could ask for the fs file, if they want to give it, they can provide a link back to their smugmug gallery eh? would that work as a compromise solution?

    Do these things really get pinched? Should I worry about pictures of my family getting used as stock photos? Never worried about that one before....
    Moderator Emeritus
    Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
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    ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited August 28, 2004
    re links and "I don't know how to tell someone <i>here</i>
    and have them go to my gallery, or anywhere. I am trying to learn it, I have the print out put together by PerezDesignGroup.

    Could someone help me further with this on that one issue. I have used the symbols on the title line so that "here" should be in italics, just to test my use of these things. The
    one is easy, but I want to go beyond that.

    ginger
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
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    BodwickBodwick Registered Users Posts: 396 Major grins
    edited August 28, 2004
    andy wrote:
    the c & c thread *is* getting a bit unmanageable. let's try something new, okay?

    go to www.dgrin.smugmug.com

    at bottom of page, click "login"
    username is "dgrin" (no quotes)
    use guest password "dgrinchallenge" (no quotes)

    upload your photos. comment and critique away using the comments button right there in the gallery. don't forget to add a caption (title) to your photo, and put your name on it to. use the html tag <br>to make a new line for your name.

    for example

    "how much is that doggie in the window"<br>
    by jane challenger

    *** if you are a smugmug user, you must first "logout" of your own account before you can "login" as a guest user on the dgrin.smugmug.com account.

    the password is dgrinchallenge

    have fun, kids.


    A few idea's to make it easy to link to the 'new system'

    Shortcut at the top of the main page. Replace a pic with a link to the main dgrin page http://www.dgrin.smugmug.com/ and also maybe a direct link to the relevent page for posts and reviews eg 20(at the moment)

    In the link place text explaining how to 'login' to post and include the Username and password.

    Username change from dgrin to dg (lazy type)

    Password change from dgrinchallenge to dgc(lazy type)

    eg.
    Post here for challange 20
    and make your comments
    also Review previous winners
    Username:- dg
    Password:- dgc

    All in a nice little box at the top of the forums.

    I hope that makes sense....<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/ne_nau.gif&quot; border="0" alt="" >
    "The important thing is to just take the picture with the lens you have when the picture happens."
    Jerry Lodriguss - Sports Photographer

    Reporters sans frontières
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    lynnesitelynnesite Registered Users Posts: 747 Major grins
    edited August 28, 2004
    andy wrote:
    i hear you, rutt. - but - i'm worried. many folks who use smugmug are not used to resizing 800x600 and i'd hate to see someone load up a fs file and then have it pinched, and see it on some stock agency website in two weeks time. you can ask for a link for a fs file, in your comment maybe? and then the shooter can reply with a link - if they chose - personally i worry about things like this - it's *your* work and yeah while i see the benefit or sharing for ps purposes, and learning / sharing etc ... we also should balanced the needs of protecting the artist's work. so maybe you could ask for the fs file, if they want to give it, they can provide a link back to their smugmug gallery eh? would that work as a compromise solution?

    I'm probably late on this but I do not want my originals released, ever.

    The ones I do let go (like my foal photos) are on 1024x768 postcards where the image itself is a lot smaller than that. What can I say? I'm not willing to see the stuff show up on webshots or other heinous non-authorized place.

    Everything makes more sense now that I've hopped back over here to dgrin to see the nuances of using the smugmug gallery, like moving changed images side by side and the basic html for captioning properly.

    Thanks, Andy for working on this (and Rutt for your well-reasoned suggestions).

    Lynne
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    snapapplesnapapple Registered Users Posts: 2,093 Major grins
    edited August 28, 2004
    Ginger and David,

    Obout originals being pinched - Sometimes we tend to thing of "all of us" here at dGrin as "one happy family". It does seem so. But, there are over 700 members, most of whom we don't know. The site is also open to the public to view without even registering. (millions of people, some not so honest) Someone can see your smugmug address on this site and go to your Smugmug site. Once there, they can view everything you have public. This is great for publicity. However, you would not want the original full size photo available. Of course people probably don't want pictures of your family. But imagine a stranger seeing Ginger's beautiful marsh shots on her site. The medium or large sizes are not high enough resolution for good prints. They would be all "pixeley". But if the "Original" high resolution size is available, it could get stolen. Someone, in another part of the nation or the world, could download the original file. They could put it on their own site or print it and sell it as their own. They could add a boat or plane or tree and claim it was all original. This same thing could happen on the challenge critique site if originals are available.

    I agree with Andy that the best way to give someone access to your original file for "workup" is to give them a special place on your Smugmug site. I have done this myself. Put your original file in a password protected gallery and email the password to the person who will have access. This gallery would have the spot checked where you select if originals will be available.It's in "customize gallery".
    "A wise man will make more opportunities than he finds." - Francis Bacon
    Susan Appel Photography My Blog
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    snapapplesnapapple Registered Users Posts: 2,093 Major grins
    edited August 28, 2004
    Bodwick - good idea...
    Bodwick wrote:
    A few idea's to make it easy to link to the 'new system'

    Shortcut at the top of the main page. Replace a pic with a link to the main dgrin page http://www.dgrin.smugmug.com/ and also maybe a direct link to the relevent page for posts and reviews eg 20(at the moment)

    In the link place text explaining how to 'login' to post and include the Username and password.

    Username change from dgrin to dg (lazy type)

    Password change from dgrinchallenge to dgc(lazy type)

    eg.
    Post here for challange 20
    and make your comments
    also Review previous winners
    Username:- dg
    Password:- dgc

    All in a nice little box at the top of the forums.

    I hope that makes sense....ne_nau.gif

    I agree about an easier username and password, especially password. dgrinchallenge is way too long to type.
    A direct link is also easier. Great idea. clap.gif
    "A wise man will make more opportunities than he finds." - Francis Bacon
    Susan Appel Photography My Blog
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    ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited August 28, 2004
    snapapple wrote:
    I agree about an easier username and password, especially password. dgrinchallenge is way too long to type.
    A direct link is also easier. Great idea. clap.gif
    Me, too, I think that would really help. I am keeping a bunch of windows open just about constantly now, going back and forth. Sometimes I have computer problems, I am not having them now.

    When I am having PC problems, anything that is expedient would be a big help and make a difference in use of the system. Also I am on cable, for people on dial up this could make a difference also.

    In any case, I would love a direct link, and at this point, I am still keeping a print out of Andy's instructions beside me with the password, address, etc.
    I can be slow when I have a bunch of things to remember, and they are all new. Simplification is always best. And a "time" saver.

    ginger:D
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
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    snapapplesnapapple Registered Users Posts: 2,093 Major grins
    edited August 28, 2004
    Ginger, Jesus spelled it all out on page 9..
    ginger_55 wrote:
    and have them go to my gallery, or anywhere. I am trying to learn it, I have the print out put together by PerezDesignGroup.

    Could someone help me further with this on that one issue. I have used the symbols on the title line so that "here" should be in italics, just to test my use of these things. The <br> one is easy, but I want to go beyond that.

    ginger

    It's all spelled out in the realtime white box on page nine. You put your Smugmug address in the www. spot and then type "Here" followed by </a> and you have created a link.
    Lookes like this:
    <a href="http://www.gingersnap.smugmug.com">Here</a&gt;
    thumb.gif
    "A wise man will make more opportunities than he finds." - Francis Bacon
    Susan Appel Photography My Blog
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    ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited August 28, 2004
    snapapple wrote:
    It's all spelled out in the realtime white box on page nine. You put your Smugmug address in the www. spot and then type "Here" followed by </a> and you have created a link.
    Lookes like this:
    <a href="http://www.gingersnap.smugmug.com">Here</a&gt;
    <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/thumb.gif&quot; border="0" alt="" >
    Thanks, Snappy, Andy and who all replied to me. I am going to paper clip it all together and see what happens.

    I did something wrong when I used the info in the white box, a very valuable box of info, which I am paper clipping with all this.

    I don't have time to try it out now, but will try it again this weekend. Thanks for the help.

    The sun is coming out, don't know if that is good or bad. For photography, is still early in the day.

    ginger
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
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    ruttrutt Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited August 28, 2004
    lynnesite wrote:
    I'm probably late on this but I do not want my originals released, ever.

    Thanks, Andy for working on this (and Rutt for your well-reasoned suggestions).

    Lynne
    I just want to make the point one more time. You control what you upload to the dgrin.smugmug.com gallery. If you don't want originals released, don't upload them there. Then there is absolutely no danger at all, because the originals won't be there. It's actually one of the beauties of the new system. Even if someone managed to break in (as I did the other night, sort of by mistake), the originals wouldn't be there to take.

    So if we take this attitude, you upload exactly what you want to make available for others to edit, etc. No more. You can keep originals or not and grant access or not in your own galleries.

    I just want everyone to have the facts right when they think about this.
    If not now, when?
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