Yell at me later, but reading all this Nikon/Canon stuff brings back the old days of the Chevy/Ford muscle car wars. Aha the passion!!! The hours worked to have the MONEY to buy the stuff (cams, carbs, paint jobs). Awesome cars both sides, but different, and both had strengths and weaknesses. Oh the grudge matches that would pop up. Guess I'm really dating myself here huh.
There was one guy, had a raggie Camaro, didn't have much money, and we use to say he kept the carb on the car with rubberbands.. But oh man could he drive. In his hands that car was sweat.
Same with cameras me thinks. I have a Canon and will probably stay there, but Nikon blue is pretty cool
Thusie, Please. Don't even get me started. I need all my rage right now for this particular debate.
Chevy? Obviously a French name. You might as well buy a Citroen.
I knew, of course, that trees and plants had roots, stems, bark, branches and foliage that reached up toward the light. But I was coming to realize that the real magician was light itself.
Edward Steichen
Elementary! My Dear Watson!
"[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Oh, he has his faults, too," said Mr. Wilson. "Never was such a fellow for photography. Snapping away with a nikon camera when he ought to be improving his mind"
Arthur Conan Doyle - The Red-Headed League
Need I misquote anymore?
Brian
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
"I forget who it was that recommended men for their soul's good to do each day two things they dislike: it was a wise man, and it is a precept that I have followed scrupulously; for every day I have got up and I have gone to bed"
- W. Somerset Maugham
Oh gee look what I came upon ....... A Canon Nikon debate ....... oh my what a suprise ........... started by a Canon user ........... my my will wonders never cease :lol4 :lol
Oh please let me join in, Hmmm let's see
Canon shooters are always busy upgrading equipment every sick (yes that's what I mean) months to keep up with ....... I don't know who !!
Nikon shooters are busy perfecting their craft with equipment that has stood the test of time and every conflict you can remember. Bringing home memorable and timeless images of what the viewfinder has seen.
Canon shooters worry about megapixels, sensors and crop factor etc. etc.
Nikon shooters worry about comp., exp., framing oh and the light !!
Canon makes faxes, printers, multifunctions machines to name a few.
Nikon makes imaging equipment.
there really is no war/debate about Cano/Nikon, Nikon won years ago :lol
Oh yeah Ford/Chevy wars well one line
FORD ..... fix or repair daily :lol
or
Buy Mopar again :lol4
I knew, of course, that trees and plants had roots, stems, bark, branches and foliage that reached up toward the light. But I was coming to realize that the real magician was light itself.
Edward Steichen
Whomever stopped building film bodies must not care about students and filmaphiles.....nice public message to send out :beatwax
Remember the F6 that was released by Nikon? I don't recall Canon coming out with amy major new film cameras.
Alas its a sign of the changing times. I'm sure Canon is going all out for the film shooters.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
The vaunted 200D is just the latest example of "catch-up" Two steps behind suckah! Great time to one up the 20D (as if!) when the 5d came out like AGES ago. That's soooo 2005.
I have to agree. It FINALLY seems like Nikon is a viable choice for high-end amatuers. Just last year your choices in the Nikon range was a $1500 D70.. or a $3500-5000 D2-whatever. That's one helluva gap. Personally were I parting w/ $1500 for a camera, I'd rather have had the 20D. And then there was the bottom end of the market. The Rebel cleaned house. I think users like myself demonstrate that.
Now things have changed. The D200 looks nice.. and is almost afordable.. almost. The D50 gives a nice entry level option.. especially if you catch a rebate dealio. Although it all feels like a day late.
But Nikon's problem is that the 200d wasn't available when I bought my dSLR. So now I am committed to Canon, as I have made a serious investment in lenses. Nikon needs to capture and hold the lead at the semi-pro price point in order to get "transitioners." Once you transit from P&S to SLR, you are partisanized, usually for life.
Exactly!
Another concern is upgrade path. Almost every Canon user I know 'dreams' of upgrading one day to a FF sensor'ed 1-series camera.. and they make their lens investments w/ that vaguely in the backs of their minds. I bought my DRebel w/ every intention of selling it off and upgrading to a x0D series in a few years.. then maybe one day to an xD series and full frame. Canon smartly offers this upgrade path. And I know that each stage of the path will be refreshed on a regular basis. Meanwhile Nikon does not offer FF whatsoever! And some stages of the upgrade path have historically been left out in the cold for some time. The D100 announced Feb 21, 2002.. the D200 was announced Nov 1, 2005.. nearly THREE YEARS LATER! That's a long time to wait if you've outgrown your D70 but can't afford a D2-whatever..
Err Steve, your avatar still has its holiday garb. Time to get that avatar current.
Heck when we both shot Sony we were constantly beating up on Canon users preaching the Canon liturgy to us on STF. What ever happened to that good old Steve? Another one who fell victim to the Dark Side. :lol
Yeah I like da hat. It makes me look Jolly, doncha think?
Yeah, I remember those Canonbals Harry I think I fell under the same spell as Andy You know, clean high ISOs and spending thousands on lenses......
have to agree. It FINALLY seems like Nikon is a viable choice for high-end amatuers. Just last year your choices in the Nikon range was a $1500 D70.. or a $3500-5000 D2-whatever. /QUOTE]
The pirce of the D70 on release was $999 (body only) and $1299 with the 18-70 kit lens.
Another concern is upgrade path. Almost every Canon user I know 'dreams' of upgrading one day to a FF sensor'ed 1-series camera.. and they make their lens investments w/ that vaguely in the backs of their minds. I bought my DRebel w/ every intention of selling it off and upgrading to a x0D series in a few years.. then maybe one day to an xD series and full frame. Canon smartly offers this upgrade path. And I know that each stage of the path will be refreshed on a regular basis. Meanwhile Nikon does not offer FF whatsoever! And some stages of the upgrade path have historically been left out in the cold for some time. The D100 announced Feb 21, 2002.. the D200 was announced Nov 1, 2005.. nearly THREE YEARS LATER! That's a long time to wait if you've outgrown your D70 but can't afford a D2-whatever..
I have been using the D100 for awhile now and it still gets me fantastic captures. I don't see the advantage in incremental upgrades every 6 months. Its good for Canon as their users are constantly "upgrading" but I have yet to see these "upgrades" demonstrated in their pictures.
I would rather wait 3 years for a D200 and spend my $ on glass than be spending it on the latest upgraded body every 6 months. I'll wait one to three years for a major improvement but spare me these "camera of the month" releases with their incremental increases that could have been included with the original release but were withheld for future sales. FF is nice for some shots but has little appeal for me when I'm shooting wildlife and surfing shots.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
I do love those pictures Robert Capa took with his D2X.
pw3ned!
HAHAHAHAH!
I knew you nikon users were Leica wannabees!
[waiting for someone to start talking about the "Nikon Glow.]
Well if Mr. Capa would of had access to one ....... he would of used one
Your right about the nikon/leica connection! I have a few "M's" tucked away and some real "L" glass to go with em. I came back to photography with an FZ20, which uses Leica glass and finally they both strive for the best damum optics you can look thru!!
I have to agree. It FINALLY seems like Nikon is a viable choice for high-end amatuers. Just last year your choices in the Nikon range was a $1500 D70.. or a $3500-5000 D2-whatever.
The pirce of the D70 on release was $999 (body only) and $1299 with the 18-70 kit lens.
I stand corrected. But still.. that's $1000 -> $3500-5000! Quite a step.
My point is that 12 months ago Nikon didn't have as much of an impressive lineup as Canon did. And Canon definitely seemed to have better value. Now Nikon has made fantastic progress in the last 12 months. But again.. is it too late? .. Hopefully not.
I don't see the advantage in incremental upgrades every 6 months. Its good for Canon as their users are constantly "upgrading" but I have yet to see these "upgrades" demonstrated in their pictures.
I don't understand your point of view here at all! How on earth is having more options ever a bad thing for us consumers? Just because they revise and replace a model doesn't mean you have to buy it! There have been plenty of very happy (and very smart in my eyes) users who have skipped one or more of the more incremental refreshes.
Still, it's nice to have the options available. When you're ready for an upgrade it's nice to know that they'll be a body available w/ all the latest bells and whistles. Little things like large, high-res LCD displays, support for large (FAT32) memory, or USB2.0 connectivity. Nevermind pixel counts or burst frame-rates. The technology involved in digital cameras evolves quickly, I think it speaks favorably that Canon has this ~12-18 month revision pace going. It certianly doesn't HURT us consumers!
Now Nikon is showing signs of serious life.. at least in the lesser markets. (Meaning their higher-tier lineup has always been very respectable.) Let's hope they can keep it going.
this may just be my personal opinion, but heres what i'm gonna do. wait for the D200's price to drop some, wait for the Canon 30D to come out, if i'm content with it, i'll invest and get it, if not... i'll abandon my canon gear and sell it to all the junkies who want the next best thing that are switching to Canon. buy a D200, some nice lenses. and that'll be that.
sorry to any loyal canon users of which i am, but honestly, i don't shoot high ISO, so the noise isn't a problem. really, its whoever has a better consumer camera for a teenage photojournalist
sorry to any loyal canon users of which i am, but honestly, i don't shoot high ISO, so the noise isn't a problem. really, its whoever has a better consumer camera for a teenage photojournalist
Daniel
I think photojournalism is a place that can demand shooting high ISO. You never know (and most times not can't control) the lighting you are going to be dealt.
Canon makes fantastic bodies and great lens. 80% of the pros shoot Canon. Daniel, stick with what you have. You will waste valuable shooting time buying/selling/trading.
This entire thread has been an entertaining read, but I never expected anyone to actually switch (or even entertain switching) because of it.
Both Nikon and Canon make great equipment and competition is good for the consumer. I have shot both brands, and my reason for going back to Canon is how prevalent their gear is. Every pro I know shoots Canon... that means every pro I know can let me borrow their gear! This is important to me (and probably would be to a teenage photo journalist).
As far as teenage photojournalism, I was in your shoes 10 years ago. I shot with an all manual Canon FT. I mean not even aperature priority or a motor drive. I still got the shot. I was even able to shoot far away sporting events with a 70-210 (without the a ratio) like football with great results. Learn your own gear and learn it well. That is the best way to take great shots!
I stand corrected. But still.. that's $1000 -> $3500-5000! Quite a step.
The gap wasn't that wide the D100 was still available and the pro body D2H was going for $1900 (best buy I ever made).
My point is that 12 months ago Nikon didn't have as much of an impressive lineup as Canon did. And Canon definitely seemed to have better value. Now Nikon has made fantastic progress in the last 12 months. But again.. is it too late? .. Hopefully not.
The current line-up of the D50, D70, D200, D2Hs, and the D2X is the best out there. This is not a race. I don't care who has the best sales. I care about a product line that suits my needs. By 5 PM (the delivery time for my D2X) I will have the D100, the D2H and the D2X. Those 3 bodies and my glass will fit my needs perfectly.
I don't understand your point of view here at all! How on earth is having more options ever a bad thing for us consumers? Just because they revise and replace a model doesn't mean you have to buy it! There have been plenty of very happy (and very smart in my eyes) users who have skipped one or more of the more incremental refreshes.
Photography for me is about taking pictures and not getting the newest gadget with more bells and whistles. When I buy a camera I intend to shoot with it for a few years. It takes that long to get to know a camera (I'm slow). I don't want a new camera every other month. I want to get a quality body and spend some time with it. I find that very often I get my best shots with my D100. Its old and its pokey but I know it very well, we work well together. Too many folks, IMHO, spend too much time on the technology when they should be concentrating on the art.
As for FF, its nice but not vital. Dixie has taken the best landscapes I've seen here with Canon cameras with the 1.6 mag factor. You don't need FF to get landscapes, you need talent.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
I would agree with you if anyone here started taking this too seriously. The underlying message here is, if it works for you, great. Because it's not the camera, it's the photographer. And hopefully along the way you'll learn a little something. But mostly it's to have fun.
Remember the F6 that was released by Nikon? I don't recall Canon coming out with amy major new film cameras.
Alas its a sign of the changing times. I'm sure Canon is going all out for the film shooters.
I'm just playing around by the way. I am a Canon shooter (Sony before now), but most of my lenses do not sport the C-name. I'm in it for what works best for me
Comments
That is a sentence that should make it into a novel. It's a classic!
Thusie, Please. Don't even get me started. I need all my rage right now for this particular debate.
Chevy? Obviously a French name. You might as well buy a Citroen.
I used to have a flash that I held on with rubberbands - but that was neither Canon nor Nilon . . . Olympus
I knew, of course, that trees and plants had roots, stems, bark, branches and foliage that reached up toward the light. But I was coming to realize that the real magician was light itself.
Edward Steichen
"[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Oh, he has his faults, too," said Mr. Wilson. "Never was such a fellow for photography. Snapping away with a nikon camera when he ought to be improving his mind"
Arthur Conan Doyle - The Red-Headed League
Need I misquote anymore?
Brian
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
- W. Somerset Maugham
Godwins law example #1 for this thread.
What's wrong with Ghandi?!
Oh please let me join in, Hmmm let's see
Canon shooters are always busy upgrading equipment every sick (yes that's what I mean) months to keep up with ....... I don't know who !!
Nikon shooters are busy perfecting their craft with equipment that has stood the test of time and every conflict you can remember. Bringing home memorable and timeless images of what the viewfinder has seen.
Canon shooters worry about megapixels, sensors and crop factor etc. etc.
Nikon shooters worry about comp., exp., framing oh and the light !!
Canon makes faxes, printers, multifunctions machines to name a few.
Nikon makes imaging equipment.
there really is no war/debate about Cano/Nikon, Nikon won years ago
Oh yeah Ford/Chevy wars well one line
FORD ..... fix or repair daily
or
Buy Mopar
My Galleries
Flicker
G+
FORD ..... fix or repair daily
or
Buy Mopar
I do love those pictures Robert Capa took with his D2X.
pw3ned!
HAHAHAHAH!
I knew you nikon users were Leica wannabees!
[waiting for someone to start talking about the "Nikon Glow.]
And sunglasses
I guess that's sort of imaging - optical at least.
I knew, of course, that trees and plants had roots, stems, bark, branches and foliage that reached up toward the light. But I was coming to realize that the real magician was light itself.
Edward Steichen
Whomever stopped building film bodies must not care about students and filmaphiles.....nice public message to send out :beatwax
Remember the F6 that was released by Nikon? I don't recall Canon coming out with amy major new film cameras.
Alas its a sign of the changing times. I'm sure Canon is going all out for the film shooters.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
..But seriously..
You guys all talking about your 1D's and D2's.. Don't forgetabout the rest of the market. Canon really has been cleaning up there! I have to agree. It FINALLY seems like Nikon is a viable choice for high-end amatuers. Just last year your choices in the Nikon range was a $1500 D70.. or a $3500-5000 D2-whatever. That's one helluva gap. Personally were I parting w/ $1500 for a camera, I'd rather have had the 20D. And then there was the bottom end of the market. The Rebel cleaned house. I think users like myself demonstrate that.
Now things have changed. The D200 looks nice.. and is almost afordable.. almost. The D50 gives a nice entry level option.. especially if you catch a rebate dealio. Although it all feels like a day late.
Exactly!
Another concern is upgrade path. Almost every Canon user I know 'dreams' of upgrading one day to a FF sensor'ed 1-series camera.. and they make their lens investments w/ that vaguely in the backs of their minds. I bought my DRebel w/ every intention of selling it off and upgrading to a x0D series in a few years.. then maybe one day to an xD series and full frame. Canon smartly offers this upgrade path. And I know that each stage of the path will be refreshed on a regular basis. Meanwhile Nikon does not offer FF whatsoever! And some stages of the upgrade path have historically been left out in the cold for some time. The D100 announced Feb 21, 2002.. the D200 was announced Nov 1, 2005.. nearly THREE YEARS LATER! That's a long time to wait if you've outgrown your D70 but can't afford a D2-whatever..
Yeah I like da hat. It makes me look Jolly, doncha think?
Yeah, I remember those Canonbals Harry
Steve
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Well if Mr. Capa would of had access to one ....... he would of used one
Your right about the nikon/leica connection! I have a few "M's" tucked away and some real "L" glass to go with em. I came back to photography with an FZ20, which uses Leica glass and finally they both strive for the best damum optics you can look thru!!
Oh did I mention Canon makes, Calculators
My Galleries
Flicker
G+
My point is that 12 months ago Nikon didn't have as much of an impressive lineup as Canon did. And Canon definitely seemed to have better value. Now Nikon has made fantastic progress in the last 12 months. But again.. is it too late? .. Hopefully not. I don't understand your point of view here at all! How on earth is having more options ever a bad thing for us consumers? Just because they revise and replace a model doesn't mean you have to buy it! There have been plenty of very happy (and very smart in my eyes) users who have skipped one or more of the more incremental refreshes.
Still, it's nice to have the options available. When you're ready for an upgrade it's nice to know that they'll be a body available w/ all the latest bells and whistles. Little things like large, high-res LCD displays, support for large (FAT32) memory, or USB2.0 connectivity. Nevermind pixel counts or burst frame-rates. The technology involved in digital cameras evolves quickly, I think it speaks favorably that Canon has this ~12-18 month revision pace going. It certianly doesn't HURT us consumers!
Now Nikon is showing signs of serious life.. at least in the lesser markets. (Meaning their higher-tier lineup has always been very respectable.) Let's hope they can keep it going. Yes, but then the crop simply sucks for other uses like landscapes. And for some, it's nice to have the option.
sorry to any loyal canon users of which i am, but honestly, i don't shoot high ISO, so the noise isn't a problem. really, its whoever has a better consumer camera for a teenage photojournalist
Daniel
smugmug: www.StandOutphoto.smugmug.com
I think photojournalism is a place that can demand shooting high ISO. You never know (and most times not can't control) the lighting you are going to be dealt.
Canon makes fantastic bodies and great lens. 80% of the pros shoot Canon. Daniel, stick with what you have. You will waste valuable shooting time buying/selling/trading.
This entire thread has been an entertaining read, but I never expected anyone to actually switch (or even entertain switching) because of it.
Both Nikon and Canon make great equipment and competition is good for the consumer. I have shot both brands, and my reason for going back to Canon is how prevalent their gear is. Every pro I know shoots Canon... that means every pro I know can let me borrow their gear! This is important to me (and probably would be to a teenage photo journalist).
As far as teenage photojournalism, I was in your shoes 10 years ago. I shot with an all manual Canon FT. I mean not even aperature priority or a motor drive. I still got the shot. I was even able to shoot far away sporting events with a 70-210 (without the a ratio) like football with great results. Learn your own gear and learn it well. That is the best way to take great shots!
Glass: >Sigma 17-35mm,f2.8-4 DG >Tamron 28-75mm,f2.8 >Canon 100mm 2.8 Macro >Canon 70-200mm,f2.8L IS >Canon 200mm,f2.8L
Flash: >550EX >Sigma EF-500 DG Super >studio strobes
Sites: Jim Mitte Photography - Livingston Sports Photos - Brighton Football Photos
The gap wasn't that wide the D100 was still available and the pro body D2H was going for $1900 (best buy I ever made).
The current line-up of the D50, D70, D200, D2Hs, and the D2X is the best out there. This is not a race. I don't care who has the best sales. I care about a product line that suits my needs. By 5 PM (the delivery time for my D2X) I will have the D100, the D2H and the D2X. Those 3 bodies and my glass will fit my needs perfectly.
Photography for me is about taking pictures and not getting the newest gadget with more bells and whistles. When I buy a camera I intend to shoot with it for a few years. It takes that long to get to know a camera (I'm slow). I don't want a new camera every other month. I want to get a quality body and spend some time with it. I find that very often I get my best shots with my D100. Its old and its pokey but I know it very well, we work well together. Too many folks, IMHO, spend too much time on the technology when they should be concentrating on the art.
As for FF, its nice but not vital. Dixie has taken the best landscapes I've seen here with Canon cameras with the 1.6 mag factor. You don't need FF to get landscapes, you need talent.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
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sigh.
Yea, yea, all in good fun. But then the bickering, the bickering, the endless bickering...
http://cusac.smugmug.com
What good is life without a little fun?
I would agree with you if anyone here started taking this too seriously. The underlying message here is, if it works for you, great. Because it's not the camera, it's the photographer. And hopefully along the way you'll learn a little something. But mostly it's to have fun.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Setup: One camera, one lens, and one roll of film.
It's all fun until someone gets poked in the eye :poke
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I'm just playing around by the way. I am a Canon shooter (Sony before now), but most of my lenses do not sport the C-name. I'm in it for what works best for me
? It is
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Well, see, that's my kind of fun!
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops