Harry, that's certainly your prerogative. But then you have nothing to add to this particular strand of the thread. Expressing one's lack of interest isn't constructive. Don't reply. If nobody else is interested either, it will die a natural death.
My problem is a promiscuity of curiosity, I suppose.
Nah, Nah, My expression of disinterest has been the only interest shown in the question on hand (that being the marketing strategy of Nikon). Just by my profession of disinterest and your responses to it we keep the topic on page 1 thereby increasing the possibility that someone will stop by with an answer to your question. Therefore my expression of disinterest is highly constructive as it keeps your question in the forefront of this rather twisted thread and increases the possibility that your question will be answered (as uninteresting , IMHO, as it is).
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
I think in general Canon shooters are more promiscuous that is why there are so much more of them.
Yeah, Canon shooters have more fun, friends, and (err) offspring. Jeez, why did I waste my time teasing Harry when I could have been being (err) promiscuous.
Nah, Nah, My expression of disinterest has been the only interest shown in the question on hand (that being the marketing strategy of Nikon).
In case you missed it, Jimf and I were on the brink of a major nerd out.
Well, maybe that's overstating it. But it doesn't really matter. If you think this is so uninteresting, just move it into it's own thread and then it will live or die on its merits. The last thing I want to do is bore anyone (well...)
In case you missed it, Jimf and I were on the brink of a major nerd out.
Well, maybe that's overstating it. But it doesn't really matter. If you think this is so uninteresting, just move it into it's own thread and then it will live or die on its merits. The last thing I want to do is bore anyone (well...)
Go ahead bore me!!!! I dare you!!! :rambo
I worked for the government for 27 years. I sat through a two day government training session on why AIDS is bad. I've been bored by experts. Bring it on.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
I worked for the government for 27 years. I sat through a two day government training session on why AIDS is bad. I've been bored by experts. Bring it on.
OK, I have to admit, you made me laugh. I'm can be pretty boring, but that's world class!
I disagree that Harry's comment isn't constructive. Quite the opposite in
fact.
I understand what Harry is saying. But I think his absolute rejection of its importance is, well, too absolute.
I am not interested in canon or nikon's marketing strategy per se. I want the camera that I can pay for, that fills the widest possible range of uses to which I might put it, and feels the best in my hands. However, as a photographer with (hopefully) a few decades of shooting ahead of me, I am concerned with how the supplier of my raw materials will evolve with me. The supplier must remain healthy, responsive to my needs, and hopefully innovative and solution oriented. So that the supplier and I can grow together.
I don't have any brand loyalty, per se. I value the brands insofar as they can support me. I just think that Canon's support is a bit better. Particularly for photographers not buying top tier equipment.
I have a great deal of curiousity. I am curious about politics, religion, photography, music, art, etc. Of all the things available to ponder the marketing strategy of Nikon or Canon or Sony or ....... is very close to the bottom of the pile.
Im with you here harry...i couldnt give a brown rats arse either. I get up at 4am & if i can see stars outside then i know there is a chance of a great sunrise. That interests me.
Im with you here harry...i couldnt give a brown rats arse either. I get up at 4am & if i can see stars outside then i know there is a chance of a great sunrise. That interests me.
Exactly.
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Matthew SavilleRegistered Users, Retired ModPosts: 3,352Major grins
Im with you here harry...i couldnt give a brown rats arse either. I get up at 4am & if i can see stars outside then i know there is a chance of a great sunrise. That interests me.
Ironic. I hope I CAN'T see the stars, that's what makes a good sunrise! Nice layer of clouds, up at high altitude, with a crack at the horizon for the sun to peep through for a couple minutes. I couldn't ask for more!
And I sort of scratch my head at Ginger's saying she waits to see "versatility" from Nikon shoters. I thought my post of images was about as versatile as one can get, maybe there's some aspect of photography I'm missing?
Landscape, anyone?
Architectural night photography?
Bokeh, anyone?
ISO 1600 portrait?
ISO 1600 fast action?
I don't want to try and convince anyone that Nikon, or my D70, is "better," neither do I mean to impress anyone with "what I accomplished using a lesser camera," I only want to make the point that cameras are just cameras. Buy what works for you! The noise in my high-ISO shots is acceptable for me because I don't print larger than 5x7"; if you shoot constantly at high ISO and print big enlargements, I wouldn't reccomend a different camera.
If I could afford them all, I would own multiple systems without a doubt. I think that's the best kind of camera fanatic to be. Not the guy who buys $30,000 of one system, but the guy who owns cameras in every system, and can therefore give honest advice twixt them all... It's just not as effective to argue which is better when most of everybody's shooting is with their respective particular system, no?
At any rate, I WOULD try to play it cool and nonchalantly say "Im going out to take pictures, have fun arguing" ...but I've got calculus, physics, and vector statics all requiring my attention at the moment so I'm going to go take care of that. Bleah. The things I do to AVOID making photography my career. How ironic!
Yeah, I gotta agree with Andy. I was going to single out one or two as being extra specially good, but they all are. When was that last one shot? If eligible, it would be a killer entry for the current challenge, "Air".
I am not interested in canon or nikon's marketing strategy per se. I want the camera that I can pay for, that fills the widest possible range of uses to which I might put it, and feels the best in my hands. However, as a photographer with (hopefully) a few decades of shooting ahead of me, I am concerned with how the supplier of my raw materials will evolve with me. The supplier must remain healthy, responsive to my needs, and hopefully innovative and solution oriented. So that the supplier and I can grow together.
I think there's a point there. I'm no expert, but I just gotta believe that photo-journalists generate some very serious income for camera companies. Therefore I would suggest that if you see a given brand used by lots of pros, that that company is probably doing well.. and therefore not going anywhere for a while. This is important because as we all know, these systems are investments that grow and change over time. Knowing that the maker will still be in business when/if you want an upgrade is certianly important. Therefore I can understand the connection between how a company markets to pros and how long it will be around.
But then I don't think this issue goes for or against either Canon or Nikon. I think both have the pro user-base to keep them around for quite some time. Nikon has the legacy, the history. Meanwhile you don't have to go much further than the sidelines of a major sporting event to be able to tell that Canon is selling more than a few bux worth of equipment these days. I think both brands are here to stay. So I think it's a draw in that respect.
Just to bore Harry, I dug around a little for Annual Reports, analyst conference calls, industry news letters, that sort of thing. It's a little hard to sort out, but it seems that Nikon does have more camera revenues than Canon, maybe as much as 2x more. But Canon has a bigger dSLR market share, again maybe as much as 2x. In 2005, Nikon had only 14% of it's camera sales in dSLRs as opposed to "compact digital cameras", in Canon's case it seems the number was more like 35%.
I could easily be wrong abou this. I'm not good at reading these kind of reports from Japanese companies. I think someone with a Bloomberg machine could get much better info a lot easier.
Just to bore Harry, I dug around a little for Annual Reports, analyst conference calls, industry news letters, that sort of thing. It's a little hard to sort out, but it seems that Nikon does have more camera revenues than Canon, maybe as much as 2x more. But Canon has a bigger dSLR market share, again maybe as much as 2x. In 2005, Nikon had only 14% of it's camera sales in dSLRs as opposed to "compact digital cameras", in Canon's case it seems the number was more like 35%.
I could easily be wrong abou this. I'm not good at reading these kind of reports from Japanese companies. I think someone with a Bloomberg machine could get much better info a lot easier.
But the greater goal, boring Harry, is advanced.
Outside of our fun little game here, this is actually a really interesting question. So the numbers you found were for cameras only? As a whole company, I would be very curious which is bigger in $$$. Canon seems to have a bigger consumer lineup, but what most people don't know is the deathgrip Nikon has on intermediate to upper level microscopy equipment - only Leica (actually Leitz on the microscopes) is considered better for optical scopes. Then, there is an entire end of the business many people don't even know about - Nikon makes quite a few photolithography machines, some pretty high end big bucks equipment. What does Canon make outside of consumer products besides some copiers (I'm asking that seriously, not to poke at Canon)?
What does Canon make outside of consumer products besides some copiers (I'm asking that seriously, not to poke at Canon)?
Not much.
Consumer Products
Digital SLR Cameras
Compact Digital Cameras
Digital Video Camcorders
Compact Photo Printers
Film Cameras
Lenses
Binoculars
Image Scanners
Personal-use PPCs, Digital PPCs
Inkjet Printers
Inkjet AIO Printers
Inkjet Chemical Products
Facsimiles
Office Products
Office Color MFDs, Network MFDs
Color POD Systems
Full-color LBPs, Monochrome LBPs
Toner, Photosensitive Drums,
and Toner Cartridges
Packaged Software
Internet Services
Large-format Inkjet Printers
Business Inkjet Printers
LCD Projectors
Visual Communications Products
Industrial Products
Semiconductor Production Equipment
Mirror Projection Aligners
Broadcasting Equipment
Devices, Components
Digital Radiography Systems
Ophthalmic Equipment
Canon Group Products
Document Scanners
Handy Terminals
Personal Information Products
Color Card and Label Printers
Ironic. I hope I CAN'T see the stars, that's what makes a good sunrise! Nice layer of clouds, up at high altitude, with a crack at the horizon for the sun to peep through for a couple minutes. I couldn't ask for more!
And I sort of scratch my head at Ginger's saying she waits to see "versatility" from Nikon shoters. I thought my post of images was about as versatile as one can get, maybe there's some aspect of photography I'm missing?
Landscape, anyone?
i'm suprised many more nikon shooters DON"T to landscapes, what with the superb quality of Nikon's glass *especially wide angle*
just thought about that last night, kinda ironic you posted some landscape shots:D
just for kicks I looked up their annual reports. I pulled data from 2004, since that is all that is I could find.
Nikon 506,378
Canon 3,467,853
Both are Millions of Yen. I think Canon has a slight edge, but who knows I could be reading the wrong numbers. perhaps there is a financial expert out there who could fill us in.
Imaging products, cameras/scanners are 55% of Nikons business.
Cameras are 22% of Canons business, scanners are included in Business Machines/Peripherals.
Thanks, Patch. These numbers make a lot more sense than anything I've been able to find. The way I read it:
Canon is a much bigger company, with anual revenues north of $30 billion vs about $7 for Nikon.
Canon's camera sales for this period are a bit higer than Nikon's entire sales.
So Canon's camera sales are roughly 2x Nikon's.
Currently you can get 115 yen for your dollar, just to get your feet on the ground.
I couldn't figure out the breakdown of point and shoot vs all other camers from these numbers, so I'd love to see those numbers. When I was digging this afternoon, I thought that Canon was more slanted toward dSLRs than Nikon, but the digital rebel had a big influence in this particular period.
Thanks, Patch. These numbers make a lot more sense than anything I've been able to find. The way I read it:
Canon is a much bigger company, with anual revenues north of $30 billion vs about $7 for Nikon.
Canon's camera sales for this period are a bit higer than Nikon's entire sales.
So Canon's camera sales are roughly 2x Nikon's.
Currently you can get 115 yen for your dollar, just to get your feet on the ground.
I couldn't figure out the breakdown of point and shoot vs all other camers from these numbers, so I'd love to see those numbers. When I was digging this afternoon, I thought that Canon was more slanted toward dSLRs than Nikon, but the digital rebel had a big influence in this particular period.
:snore
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
There was no way Nikon's photography-related revenue was anywhere close to Canon's. What's more, if they can't successfully convert their film-oriented resources to digital, and get a far greater leverage from this investment, their overall share of the photography market will not increase. Even if they can hold the share they have, with Sony and the Koreans coming at them, that might be doing incredibly well.
prediction..suggestion
After reading this i suggest that ,after some bloodshed ,that the shootout will be declared a draw.You heard it here first.
Another way to make it interesting is to post the shots but not indicate which lens and camera was used and let the punters out there take a stab at identifying the lens used.
My bet is that canon shooters will be claiming nikon shots as canon and vice versa and lens chauvinism will be exposed.
It would be a good way to put this good natured rivalry into perspective.
We have the same thing here between Ford and Holden car owners-at the end of the day the similiarities outweigh the differences.It all good fun.
I am just curious if anyone out there has actually used both brands or read a comparison. I was thinking if anyone going to Bryce/Zion had more than one camera we could swap...
I am just curious if anyone out there has actually used both brands or read a comparison. I was thinking if anyone going to Bryce/Zion had more than one camera we could swap...
I think Doc's used both brands...
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
Comments
Nah, Nah, My expression of disinterest has been the only interest shown in the question on hand (that being the marketing strategy of Nikon). Just by my profession of disinterest and your responses to it we keep the topic on page 1 thereby increasing the possibility that someone will stop by with an answer to your question. Therefore my expression of disinterest is highly constructive as it keeps your question in the forefront of this rather twisted thread and increases the possibility that your question will be answered (as uninteresting , IMHO, as it is).
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Yeah, Canon shooters have more fun, friends, and (err) offspring. Jeez, why did I waste my time teasing Harry when I could have been being (err) promiscuous.
In case you missed it, Jimf and I were on the brink of a major nerd out.
Well, maybe that's overstating it. But it doesn't really matter. If you think this is so uninteresting, just move it into it's own thread and then it will live or die on its merits. The last thing I want to do is bore anyone (well...)
Go ahead bore me!!!! I dare you!!! :rambo
I worked for the government for 27 years. I sat through a two day government training session on why AIDS is bad. I've been bored by experts. Bring it on.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
OK, I have to admit, you made me laugh. I'm can be pretty boring, but that's world class!
I understand what Harry is saying. But I think his absolute rejection of its importance is, well, too absolute.
I am not interested in canon or nikon's marketing strategy per se. I want the camera that I can pay for, that fills the widest possible range of uses to which I might put it, and feels the best in my hands. However, as a photographer with (hopefully) a few decades of shooting ahead of me, I am concerned with how the supplier of my raw materials will evolve with me. The supplier must remain healthy, responsive to my needs, and hopefully innovative and solution oriented. So that the supplier and I can grow together.
I don't have any brand loyalty, per se. I value the brands insofar as they can support me. I just think that Canon's support is a bit better. Particularly for photographers not buying top tier equipment.
Im with you here harry...i couldnt give a brown rats arse either. I get up at 4am & if i can see stars outside then i know there is a chance of a great sunrise. That interests me.
Exactly.
And I sort of scratch my head at Ginger's saying she waits to see "versatility" from Nikon shoters. I thought my post of images was about as versatile as one can get, maybe there's some aspect of photography I'm missing?
Landscape, anyone?
Architectural night photography?
Bokeh, anyone?
ISO 1600 portrait?
ISO 1600 fast action?
I don't want to try and convince anyone that Nikon, or my D70, is "better," neither do I mean to impress anyone with "what I accomplished using a lesser camera," I only want to make the point that cameras are just cameras. Buy what works for you! The noise in my high-ISO shots is acceptable for me because I don't print larger than 5x7"; if you shoot constantly at high ISO and print big enlargements, I wouldn't reccomend a different camera.
If I could afford them all, I would own multiple systems without a doubt. I think that's the best kind of camera fanatic to be. Not the guy who buys $30,000 of one system, but the guy who owns cameras in every system, and can therefore give honest advice twixt them all... It's just not as effective to argue which is better when most of everybody's shooting is with their respective particular system, no?
At any rate, I WOULD try to play it cool and nonchalantly say "Im going out to take pictures, have fun arguing" ...but I've got calculus, physics, and vector statics all requiring my attention at the moment so I'm going to go take care of that. Bleah. The things I do to AVOID making photography my career. How ironic!
Take care,
-Matt-
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
I was talking about full overcast.
Nice examples, Matt - you're stuff is really good.
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But then I don't think this issue goes for or against either Canon or Nikon. I think both have the pro user-base to keep them around for quite some time. Nikon has the legacy, the history. Meanwhile you don't have to go much further than the sidelines of a major sporting event to be able to tell that Canon is selling more than a few bux worth of equipment these days. I think both brands are here to stay. So I think it's a draw in that respect.
I could easily be wrong abou this. I'm not good at reading these kind of reports from Japanese companies. I think someone with a Bloomberg machine could get much better info a lot easier.
But the greater goal, boring Harry, is advanced.
Oh I didn't know you knew my Mom, she never mentioned it to me, but yes a Nikon Lady (and a damm fine one) to the end.
Well I called them on your behalf to ask and they said they get back to me on that :lol
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Not much.
From Canon.
i'm suprised many more nikon shooters DON"T to landscapes, what with the superb quality of Nikon's glass *especially wide angle*
just thought about that last night, kinda ironic you posted some landscape shots:D
-Daniel-
smugmug: www.StandOutphoto.smugmug.com
Nikon 506,378
Canon 3,467,853
Both are Millions of Yen. I think Canon has a slight edge, but who knows I could be reading the wrong numbers.
Imaging products, cameras/scanners are 55% of Nikons business.
Cameras are 22% of Canons business, scanners are included in Business Machines/Peripherals.
http://www.nikon.co.jp/main/eng/portfolio/ir/ir_tool/ar/pdf/2005/05annual_e.pdf I used the 2004 data off this annual report.
http://canon.com/ir/finance/index.html I used the data in the 2004 annual report.
:snore
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
It's working!
There was no way Nikon's photography-related revenue was anywhere close to Canon's. What's more, if they can't successfully convert their film-oriented resources to digital, and get a far greater leverage from this investment, their overall share of the photography market will not increase. Even if they can hold the share they have, with Sony and the Koreans coming at them, that might be doing incredibly well.
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
After reading this i suggest that ,after some bloodshed ,that the shootout will be declared a draw.You heard it here first.
Another way to make it interesting is to post the shots but not indicate which lens and camera was used and let the punters out there take a stab at identifying the lens used.
My bet is that canon shooters will be claiming nikon shots as canon and vice versa and lens chauvinism will be exposed.
It would be a good way to put this good natured rivalry into perspective.
We have the same thing here between Ford and Holden car owners-at the end of the day the similiarities outweigh the differences.It all good fun.
Longitude: 145° 08'East
Canon 20d,EFS-60mm Macro,Canon 85mm/1.8. Pentax Spotmatic SP,Pentax Super Takumars 50/1.4 &135/3.5,Pentax Super-Multi-Coated Takumars 200/4 ,300/4,400/5.6,Sigma 600/8.
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I think Doc's used both brands...
Owned: Rebel, Rebel XT, 10D
shot with: 20D, 1DmkII
and this month's switch...
Own: D2H, D70 (in the mail)
shot with: D70, D1, D1H
whaddya want to know?
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