One Stop Live Music Thread
Hey all,
I'd like to get a thread going for music photographers. We've no Forum, but I think a thread is appropriate for the unique set of photographic dilemmas associated with shooting live music. Low light, almost constantly moving subjects, a crowded work space, limited perspectives, personal intoxication (oops), yada, blah, etc., each force us to take a different approach to things.
I'm sticking to amatuer shooting, personally, but I'd love to see some pro shots and read some pro stories. For intellectual property reasons (a musician's concern more than mine, as an amateur) I don't allow downloading of my music shots with professional artists... so here's a link to my music section: http://ledudeprojects.smugmug.com/Music.
I'll also take some shots of cats on the street... here's my small collection so far: (I've already posted some elsewhere)
1 (Wash, DC)
2 (NYC)
3 (NYC)
4 (NYC)
Equipment:
Nikon D70s; Nikkor 85mm 1.8; Nikkor 17-70mm 3.5*; Nikkor 70-300mm 4.0*; SB-800 Flash*
*Almost never used.
Basic Approach:
1. Full Manual & Raw
2. 1/15" - 1/40"; 1.8 (usually) - 4.0 stop
3. Given my lighting situation I start with the highest ISO where I am garuanteed to get some shots. I work my way back down and push myself as far as possible to the D70 max (200). I'll then return to the 'sweet spot' as determined via the previous shots and stick there for the remainder of the night. Sweet spot settings on shutter and stop are almost always 1/15" & 1.8 [edit: I've begun working predominantly in the 1/20-1/30 range as I was losing too many shots to blurriness]; this might be different on big stages where there's far more light than the typically bar/restaurant setting.
4. I shoot in continuous mode with bursts of 2-4 at a time. At slow SS and being handheld, it is very important for getting at least one focused version. I have a monopod, but have yet to use it... besides, it's usually the musician moving that causes most of the blur.
5. I always ask permission before shooting. This can be before the music starts (a great time to make an introduction... which, can often yield some free drinks:D) or after (with a pointing to the camera and facial contortion of 'is this cool?'). I can't remember being told no by a musician. Once by a manager... actually twice (first time I didn't ask first, booo), but never by a musician. The key for me is courtesy, I am always mindful that an artist may be tempermental and I never want to get in the way of the music. It also helps when I observe the goings on between the band a bit so I can pick out the 'leader.'
6. For the first few songs I usually sit and take in as much as possible. Assuming no one attractive is chatting at me, I'll be pondering the lighting offered, potential shooting positions, overall tone/sentiment of the music.
7. I always aim for some 'artistic' type shots to mix in with the portraits. Whether it be a different angle on an instrument, a shot through a mirror or window... sometimes this is planned, sometimes spur of the moment.
Ahh! Alright, I'm sick of my own voice in my head (all three of them :huh)... who else wants to get in on this thread? Calling all music lovers!
-Rich
-p.s. I'm located in D.C.
I'd like to get a thread going for music photographers. We've no Forum, but I think a thread is appropriate for the unique set of photographic dilemmas associated with shooting live music. Low light, almost constantly moving subjects, a crowded work space, limited perspectives, personal intoxication (oops), yada, blah, etc., each force us to take a different approach to things.
I'm sticking to amatuer shooting, personally, but I'd love to see some pro shots and read some pro stories. For intellectual property reasons (a musician's concern more than mine, as an amateur) I don't allow downloading of my music shots with professional artists... so here's a link to my music section: http://ledudeprojects.smugmug.com/Music.
I'll also take some shots of cats on the street... here's my small collection so far: (I've already posted some elsewhere)
1 (Wash, DC)
2 (NYC)
3 (NYC)
4 (NYC)
Equipment:
Nikon D70s; Nikkor 85mm 1.8; Nikkor 17-70mm 3.5*; Nikkor 70-300mm 4.0*; SB-800 Flash*
*Almost never used.
Basic Approach:
1. Full Manual & Raw
2. 1/15" - 1/40"; 1.8 (usually) - 4.0 stop
3. Given my lighting situation I start with the highest ISO where I am garuanteed to get some shots. I work my way back down and push myself as far as possible to the D70 max (200). I'll then return to the 'sweet spot' as determined via the previous shots and stick there for the remainder of the night. Sweet spot settings on shutter and stop are almost always 1/15" & 1.8 [edit: I've begun working predominantly in the 1/20-1/30 range as I was losing too many shots to blurriness]; this might be different on big stages where there's far more light than the typically bar/restaurant setting.
4. I shoot in continuous mode with bursts of 2-4 at a time. At slow SS and being handheld, it is very important for getting at least one focused version. I have a monopod, but have yet to use it... besides, it's usually the musician moving that causes most of the blur.
5. I always ask permission before shooting. This can be before the music starts (a great time to make an introduction... which, can often yield some free drinks:D) or after (with a pointing to the camera and facial contortion of 'is this cool?'). I can't remember being told no by a musician. Once by a manager... actually twice (first time I didn't ask first, booo), but never by a musician. The key for me is courtesy, I am always mindful that an artist may be tempermental and I never want to get in the way of the music. It also helps when I observe the goings on between the band a bit so I can pick out the 'leader.'
6. For the first few songs I usually sit and take in as much as possible. Assuming no one attractive is chatting at me, I'll be pondering the lighting offered, potential shooting positions, overall tone/sentiment of the music.
7. I always aim for some 'artistic' type shots to mix in with the portraits. Whether it be a different angle on an instrument, a shot through a mirror or window... sometimes this is planned, sometimes spur of the moment.
Ahh! Alright, I'm sick of my own voice in my head (all three of them :huh)... who else wants to get in on this thread? Calling all music lovers!
-Rich
-p.s. I'm located in D.C.
We are the music-makers; and we are the dreamers of dreams.
... come along.
... come along.
0
Comments
OOOh forgot....here is a couple>>>>
Jim Dandy of Black Oak Arkansas 1989 /\ 1998\/
Riccochett Reynolds of Black Oak Arkansas 1998\/
My contibution to the thread so far...now where did I put Joe Houston, Charlie Daniels, Omen and all those others......
I also have been wanting to see some live music shots from dgrinners. You forgot the problem of venues not allowing cameras let alone SLRs...so these pics I am posting were from my Sony DSC-W1(which fits great in between your legs while being patted down). I also has decent manual features, so I'm not blasting my flash off. I guess is just need a press pass or something.
I have pics in my concert gallery if you care to look. Enjoy.
Jason Mraz and Tristan Prettyman at the Fillmore, SF
Dave Matthews Band at Red Rocks 2005
Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds - Vegoose Festival 2005
Howie Day at the Fillmore, SF
Tristan Prettyman at the Great American Music Hall, SF
Matt Nathanson at the Great American Music Hall, SF
Kevin
www.rightangleimages.com
As for venues refusing SLRs, yeah... I missed out on Soulive! pics for that reason. Funny thing to me is that they allow p&s-ters, which means they are encouraging the proliferation of lesser quality photos of themselves... it's a label (sometimes venue) thing though, so most unsigned artists have no such problem.
It definitely helps to know people in the biz though. Even my relative - sometimes cripplingly so - lack of status has helped occasionally. The Robert Randolph pics are an example... I knew the club manager, and, because of the whole no-downloading of pics thing, I felt comfortable assuring him he'd get no legal backlash.
Thanks for sharing man; now, it's time to hit the town.
peace,
Rich
p.s. Art, your subjects are scary... whose that last one? Ron Jeremy!
... come along.
How did that come to be? Were you providing press shots for the bands? I'm curious to know how you attained this celebrity status.
... come along.
The one thing I realized very quickly was all wanted the same thing..respect and to be treated like people.....
I collected tons of autographs...never asked for any of them......took many an artist to their hotel rooms....let the limo drive all over town empty.....
I never acted like I was special or deserved special attention, I was polite and professional with all of them.....
I had one bad night with a band.....one of the band members basically hooked me up with a groupie..so all went well till I left the party....groupie wanted a ride ...so we were going to same city and as I let her out of the car I had a crack head get in and robbed me of 1 camera.....wrote the band told them what happened and damn a check came....the letter was an answer to one they sent me wanting to know of my adventures after I left...so I gave all details.....again I did not ask for any thing as it was insured and I told them this....I even called their management agency to return the check and they refused the return of the check.........
I did find out that in the rock genre most all bands want pics for free...shooting blues, jazz, oldies rock, and country (especially) I got paid at the concert....most of the time it was enough to cover my expenses ....but they offered.....all my concert shooting was done on spec....unless I got a call asking specifically for me to come and shoot...then the basic charge was around $350 + expenses (gas and food if the travel was out of town)....$350 was what I charged for a wedding at that time (early 80's)....
So as time went on I just became known by all the security and also by the stage hand union and the stage hand union would double as security.....so I would get escorted from the front door of a venue to infront of the cattle guard fence separating the crowd from the stage.....Also made friends with the sound companuies in this area....that was a big help also....gave me a good vantage poing to shoot from....
It was not something I ever asked for....I was never given the normaal 2 or 3 minutes to shoot...I was always allowed to shoot from start of concert until it was over or I ran out of film.........
Most of the time if I was seen by the front man packing my gear to leave, I got a hand shake was told to meet them back stage....where I would talk with the road manager gather business cards or just addresses .......
One of my last concerts was Carlos Santana.....I went in and shot the concert....and as I was leaving and got hit in the back of the head by a tee-shirt....turned around and it was Carlos..trying to stop me....the t-shirt was autographed...(ihad ear plugs in and could not hear him yelling at me)...I already had management info so I wasn't hanging around but he as looking for me...his reason was, it was a seated concert and I was taking pics with other peoples cameras....and that impressed him..that I wasn't so selfish to tell them too bad, take'm from your seat.......I had full run of the front of the stage and aisles to shoot from....
I always treated everyone courteously....performer and audience member alike.....it was hard sometimes...but I made myself do it........
Then I gave it all up..... the magic was lost.....no photography for almost 15 years......
Now the game begins.........again.:D
For me digital is tough, cause I can shoot way to many pics to beable to turn them around properly....I have not learned PS well enuff....camera use was no prob....but I did not do my own processing when I used film cause I just did not have the time....for me digital is the same.....
My little story....
Art,
WOW! - thank you so much. It really helps to hear your tale. I don't know if pro-photography is where I'm going, it's probably more of a means to an end as far as music goes. But, it is tremendously beneficial to read what you wrote - to know what I'm doing right and wrong, what I'm not doing at all.
I started this thread with hopes for good shots and shooting tips/advice, but I wasn't sure if I could expect the kind of contribution you've made... I hope others read and benefit, and I hope you re-visit this thread often. I'd love to hear more as you are re-born into the digital world.
Best Regards,
Rich
... come along.
Art: Great stories!
I'm pysched about this thread. I have nothing to contribute, yet. I'm planning on going to the New Orleans Jazz Fest at the end of April, and I'm hoping to get my 70-200 by then. Hopefully I'll come home with something worth sharing.:D
http://www.juliejules.com
Canon 70D, Canon EF 24-105mm F4L IS, Canon EF 16-35mm F2.8L, Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS USM, Canon Ext 1.4x II, SpeedLite 430EX
70-200 canon or sigma 2.8? I really want that sigma. Say hi to DMB for me!
Art! Great stories man.
Kevin
www.rightangleimages.com
Will do! I can't wait.
http://www.juliejules.com
Canon 70D, Canon EF 24-105mm F4L IS, Canon EF 16-35mm F2.8L, Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS USM, Canon Ext 1.4x II, SpeedLite 430EX
Kevin
www.rightangleimages.com
Microphones suck. Mostly, because that's what singers seem to do to them. Hard to get a good shot without a mic in it. Drummers are very hard. They're often tucked away in a shadow. The autofocus grabs the drum kit, not the drummer. Hard to manually focus in a dark club with the small viewfinder of most DSLRs. And they move a lot, putting a premium on shutter speed.
Shutter speed is king. I buy fast glass, pump the ISO as high as I dare. I watch the RGB histogram very carefully. With unusual lighting, it's easy to blow out one of the color channels. For example, a performer could be bathed in red light. The combined histogram might look OK. But the RGB histogram shows that the red channel is blown out. And if it's the singer's face that's blown out, there's not much you can do. Blown out is blown out.
Because of the funky light and white balance challenges, I usually convert to B&W. Sometimes they turn out looking pretty good. Usually, I find the conversion to be painstaking work.
In B&W and in color.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
30 & 36 from the Derek Clegg Band gallery (by wxwax), not posted here, are superb... maybe not classically perfect shots, but in my mind great live music shots for the not-so-subtle sentiment they convey... I try to remind myself of Dylan sometimes when shooting, 'cause the voice wasn't pretty, but it sure made a point.
As for painstaking conversion (processing in general really), good lord yes.
And another hell yeah on the drummers thing... when I can get consitent drummer shots I'll have made it, whether because I'm on stage or b/c I'm just that good.
Focus. Auto-focus is the way I go; I use the lock feature constantly. This is the second level of setting up a shot that I think is important. After scouting something I like, I set my view and lock focus on a position the musician has taken. Then, hopefully, they return (or, haven't moved) and I get a shot burst.
Tonight was a good example of the "layering approach," as I call it. First layer is setup: basic lighting, angle and camera settings discerned. Second layer is focus (see above). Third layer is timing: artist position, artist expression and, as was the case was tonight, intermittent lighting as produced by strobe/rotating 'show lights,' all need to groove for the shot to git sweet.
good shooting all,
-Rich
... come along.
http://www.juliejules.com
Canon 70D, Canon EF 24-105mm F4L IS, Canon EF 16-35mm F2.8L, Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS USM, Canon Ext 1.4x II, SpeedLite 430EX
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
Just needs to get a little heavier!
Anorexia Nervosa
Vader
Lost Soul
Trashcanned
Regards,
Andreas
Kevin
www.rightangleimages.com
Thank you very much, Kevin!
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
thanks for the posts Nordic, ridetwistyroads
-Rich
... come along.
I've been looking for gig photo advice for a while. In the past I have smuggled in my Canon A95, but I really struggle to get anything sharp in low light, and the results have often been frustrating.
Here's an example. This is actually one of my better efforts!
I'm taking my camera to gigs less frequently these days, as security checks in London get tighter, and I prefer to concentrate on the music rather than fiddle with my camera for the duration of a gig.
Oh, and another common hazard not yet mentioned: flying beer. it once took me months to unstick my zoom dial.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
I've got some new pics from last night. Not particularly good in general, but I like #9... http://ledudeprojects.smugmug.com/gallery/1331969/9/63121568
Spagbag... good effort - it can be tough, especially when you are smuggling photo gear
... come along.
If you want to see some (actually a lot of) excellent heavy metal concert photos, take a look on this site: http://www.photopit.com
Its the site of a freind of mine. She regulary sells her photos to magazines and gets published a lot. Her portfolio is unbelievable! :wow
Regards,
Andreas
I remembered reading, a while back when I first got started, a tutorial posted on the web. Much of what I wrote about my approach in the opening post of this thread is drawn from my memory and application of that tutorial. Here it is!: http://www.boo-photos.co.uk/lowlight.html
... come along.
This first one is an S5000 shot from a Marillion gig at Manchester Academy, was lucky enough to get a photo pass for this one, although this was taken from behind the barrier in the front row of the crowd :
And this second one was taken at a gig by a UK progressive rock band called Pallas :
And finally, took this one last week in a small club - the band are a Norwegian prog metal outfit called Pagan's Mind - this shot was a total fluke but I just like the way it came out - the lighting was appalling for this one as the club doesn't have any stage lights - the band were playing under the disco lights - luckily someone switched on a couple of the white ones or I doubt I would have got a decent pic all night :
I've got some more pics up from U-Turn... hey, any cats from DC that like hip-hop or poetry and haven't seen/heard Komplex- well, get on it. I heard only one song and one poem last night but both were superb.
Along photographic lines... I'm really an idiot when it comes to shooting sometimes. Anytime I try to take a shot of someone not on stage, like the quick portrait that is requested every so often, I never change the settings properly. I don't put up the built-in flash or switch to auto-Ap or even full-auto... dumb, dumb.
... come along.