Driving into work this morning, my new Prius started beeping at me. As you can probably guess, there's a million and one things that could go wrong with that car, so I'm on the freeway, looking around like crazy, trying to figure out WTF is wrong, no lights are lit...it keeps beeping...I finally figure out that it's trying to tell me to buckle up my laptop case that's been sitting on the passengers seat for the past 45 minutes.
Find me a Mercedes in my price range with a manual transmission and maybe I will
And no I don't want a 190E 16V, wayyyyy to much maintenance.
Psssh, manual transmission. To quote some parts of the brochure for my 1985 380SE...
Versatility is spelled P-R-N-D-3-2-B
Indeed, this automatic can actually shift slightly quicker than even the quickest human hand. It is also designed to be shifted manually if you prefer Note that the level looks and feels like a manual and is mounted beside your right thigh on the transmission tunnel. A unique shift gate design permits shifting by feel, without constant furtive glances down to find what gear you are in.
Hehehe...I'm probably the only one who finds that humurous. Yes, I do understand the advantages of a manual...but then, automatics make accident avoidance that much easier (I think it was Autoweek that quoted an F1 driver, I think Montoya, as saying he had narrowly avoided what would have been a horrible accident and if his car had a manual transmission he wouldn't have been able to avoid it (he was referring to his person cal, not his race car)), and in a large car add to that air of luxury (to which the brochure said NEIN DAS NICHT RICHTIG "you are not in the soft lap of luxury but in the sure hands of ergonomic science"...they go on to basically scold people who want things like cup holders and digital displays and decorative pieces...which is funny considering what Mercedes does today, though I can't blame them since they have to to compete).
The first one is less boring than it looks. 6.3 liter engine. Granted it's a US engine, but all you have to change is the fuel pump, injectors, and mixture, and it'll run the 1/4 mile in 14 seconds flat (434lb-ft of torque), get some high performance mods from the guys at 300sel for it, and you're looking at 500lb-ft and into the mid/lower 13's. (as a US model that SL is in the mid to upper 15's). To give a little hint, once my project is done, my car should be in that speed range.
One of my buddies just bought a nice '02 AMG. I think it's an S55 and that
thing moves in a serious way. Comfy. Lots of get up and go (13's at the
track). Prolly doesn't handle as well as it could but he's gonna fix that.
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
One of my buddies just bought a nice '02 AMG. I think it's an S55 and that
thing moves in a serious way. Comfy. Lots of get up and go (13's at the
track). Prolly doesn't handle as well as it could but he's gonna fix that.
I am extremely jealous. I'll try and console myself knowing that my car has no possibility for electrical bugs (because it basically has no electronics) while his (and every car built within the past 12 years or so) does.
I am extremely jealous. I'll try and console myself knowing that my car has no possibility for electrical bugs (because it basically has no electronics) while his (and every car built within the past 12 years or so) does.
You will also have the knowledge that spark plugs don't cost $200 either
Ian
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
My dealer sells porches too. What do you suppose I can get a loaner
Porsche? Prolly somewhere between slim and none?
I must be weird but they do nothing for me mate. I suppose it would be fun to fire it around town for a bit but still my old $3500 suzuki could whip most of them & get your heart rate higher.
My dealer sells porches too. What do you suppose I can get a loaner
Porsche? Prolly somewhere between slim and none?
Even Porsche owners don't get Porsche loaners (in DC anyways)...instead they give you a Chevy Malibu or a Ford Focus. In fact, the only dealers in the DC area that give you their own make for a loaner are MB dealers, Audi dealers, and VW dealers.
I must be weird but they do nothing for me mate. I suppose it would be fun to fire it around town for a bit but still my old $3500 suzuki could whip most of them & get your heart rate higher.
Some guys in some local sport bike group got a bit of surprise to see they couldn't out accelerate our '02 911. I couldn't tell what they were riding, but they were seriously fast, and of course could carry more speed through the turns, but in the straight line stuff they couldn't pull any (and in fact got caught up on at times). I don't have any delusions of grandeur, I know 0-60 they'd dust the 911, but something about that 30-100 range they were slower. Motorcycle guys always say 2 wheels are more fun than 4, but I say they just don't drive those 4 properly. Nothing is more fun than long swooping 4 wheel drifts (which is different from those drift races idiots enjoy).
Oh, and BTW, no real Benz was made after 1991 (1994 if you count the South Africa plant), though plenty of the cars they've made since have been very nice.
Some guys in some local sport bike group got a bit of surprise to see they couldn't out accelerate our '02 911. I couldn't tell what they were riding, but they were seriously fast, and of course could carry more speed through the turns, but in the straight line stuff they couldn't pull any (and in fact got caught up on at times). I don't have any delusions of grandeur, I know 0-60 they'd dust the 911, but something about that 30-100 range they were slower. Motorcycle guys always say 2 wheels are more fun than 4, but I say they just don't drive those 4 properly. Nothing is more fun than long swooping 4 wheel drifts (which is different from those drift races idiots enjoy).
Oh, and BTW, no real Benz was made after 1991 (1994 if you count the South Africa plant), though plenty of the cars they've made since have been very nice.
Any stock modern 1000-1300 will pull a 10 sec pass. Standard 911 do that ? Maybe the local bikes were 600's.
Any stock modern 1000-1300 will pull a 10 sec pass. Standard 911 do that ? Maybe the local bikes were 600's.
Must have been 600's then. They didn't seem as surprised as I was. At a stop sign there was 2 in front of us and the rest behind, and I like to let bikers ride as a group (increases their visibility to cars that aren't paying attention for one thing), and one of the guys came up to the window and said "You go ahead, you're faster than we are"
Isn't the price around $100k on that? Meaning it would have to compete with the 911 Turbo (which it can't). Either way, honestly, faster may be one thing, but there is nothing that can kill a 911 in the sense of killing it's appeal. A 911 is all in the way it handles (not necessarily the best handling, but it is certainly unique), and there is no car that can duplicate that feel (also...911's are nice in that after the first few years of ownership they depreciate in a big way, so you can buy a 4 year old 911 for less than half the new sticker price).
Isn't the price around $100k on that? Meaning it would have to compete with the 911 Turbo (which it can't). Either way, honestly, faster may be one thing, but there is nothing that can kill a 911 in the sense of killing it's appeal. A 911 is all in the way it handles (not necessarily the best handling, but it is certainly unique), and there is no car that can duplicate that feel (also...911's are nice in that after the first few years of ownership they depreciate in a big way, so you can buy a 4 year old 911 for less than half the new sticker price).
When was the last time you priced a 911? Do you really think anyone buy's one for the base price? They are the most obscene option whores in the industry. A decently optioned 911 Carrera will push 90k without a hitch and optioned out to the level the R8 comes standard with will top 110k. The 911 is timeless, but it's also boring. 911's handle like crap, the wieght distribution is so horrid the suspension set ups are required to be extremely soft to the point that they literally bounce down the track. The 911 has a mystique that is far greater than it's reality. This is a derivative of the long standing availability o9f 911 "cup" race car kits and not becuase they are the greatest race cars. The Cayman is a far more interesting car. The 911 is a status symbol at this point. It's the mid-life crisis car of choice. In a year when the V-10 drops into the R8 body you'll have a GT3 killer. A Gallardo with Audi service.
When was the last time you priced a 911? Do you really think anyone buy's one for the base price? They are the most obscene option whores in the industry. A decently optioned 911 Carrera will push 90k without a hitch and optioned out to the level the R8 comes standard with will top 110k. The 911 is timeless, but it's also boring. 911's handle like crap, the wieght distribution is so horrid the suspension set ups are required to be extremely soft to the point that they literally bounce down the track. The 911 has a mystique that is far greater than it's reality. This is a derivative of the long standing availability o9f 911 "cup" race car kits and not becuase they are the greatest race cars. The Cayman is a far more interesting car. The 911 is a status symbol at this point. It's the mid-life crisis car of choice. In a year when the V-10 drops into the R8 body you'll have a GT3 killer. A Gallardo with Audi service.
I agree, the Cayman is interesting, though not as a stock car since they come from the factory detuned (I wouldn't say it's more interesting, I'm not a fan of mid-engine - warm and noisy).
The handling of a 911 can be bad or extremely good, it's just all in the hands of the driver (plus the 996 and later models have a pretty decent weigth distribution so it makes it easier to be good). But it's not just a handling that requires driver ability, but also driver compatability, so I'll let that point rest.
But WTF are you talking about 90K????? The only option I would get on a 997 is metallic paint (and maybe floormats, though it appears those are now a no cost option), not to mention you can get thousands off sticker on a 911 whereas the R8 is likely to be one of those MSRP deals where they'll even try to do a markup. And again, as a specialty car R8 likely won't depreciate hard. You can get a 2002 911 with decent options for people who like those things (power seats, xenons - plus whatever else it was in that technics package, 18" lightweight wheels) for under $40k.
As far as that V-10, the Gallardo can keep it. I've had the "pleasure" of riding in one of those (and a very short drive) and even with Lambo engineering, a V-10 is still the inherently worst engine design there is. Good engines are I-6 or V-12, H-6 and V-8 are ok, I-4...well 4-bangers can be good I suppose if they're small and not too powerful and in a light car (i.e. BMW 2002), but V-10's are just awful.
But WTF are you talking about 90K????? The only option I would get on a 997 is metallic paint (and maybe floormats, though it appears those are now a no cost option), not to mention you can get thousands off sticker on a 911 whereas the R8 is likely to be one of those MSRP deals where they'll even try to do a markup. And again, as a specialty car R8 likely won't depreciate hard. You can get a 2002 911 with decent options for people who like those things (power seats, xenons - plus whatever else it was in that technics package, 18" lightweight wheels) for under $40k.
The only options you'd get...that's not an apple to apples comparison. Equip a 911 in R8 base trim and the price is no longer an issue. Comparing a used 911 to an R8 is equally ridiculous. You want a 911 as a track slut (you'd be best served finding a used 944 turbo), I'm looking at this as a daily driver GT car which is how Audi intended it. The base R8 lines up best with the 911 C4S fully optioned out. In that comparison the Audi is cheaper and comes with a much more sophisticated AWD system and a rock solid engine. Both cars are capapble 4 season GT's but the Audi is not plagued with the 911's inherent design flaws. True the 996/7 have tamed the beast, but only through the addition of electronic systems and not through elegant design. The Audi was a clean slate (well the Gallardo was anyway) and suffers none of the pitfalls of being forced to design within a 50 year old shape / form factor that the 911 purists demand.
Personally, the BMW M3 (currently dirve a 2002 e46 M with a few non stock bits) is more interesting to me as it gives 9/10ths the performance at 60% of the price and has split fold down rear seats that accomodate quite an impressive cargo load when called upon. If the new 335i (drove one last weekend) is any indication of the V8 2007 M3 then it ought to be quite a value.
The Gallardo V10 is no slouch of an engine, the weak link in that car was the inherent Audiness in a Lambo. It was simply too refined to wear the charging bull. It ought to play better in 4 ring skin though i'd much prefer a twin turbo version of the 4.2 V8. Perhaps the most intruiging aspects of the R8 are the Audi magnetic suspension and the real deal sR-tronic sequential gear box plucked right from the Audi Racing parts bin. Don't forget the same 4.2 engine blasts the 17% heavier RS4 to 60 in 4.6 seconds clearly putting Audi's performance numbers for the R8 on the conservative side.
In reality, the R8 is squarely aimed at the 911 carrera. It ought to be a good fight. Either way it's good to see Audi jump into the deep end of the pool with something as fresh and chalenging as the TT was almost a decade ago.
The only options you'd get...that's not an apple to apples comparison. Equip a 911 in R8 base trim and the price is no longer an issue. Comparing a used 911 to an R8 is equally ridiculous. You want a 911 as a track slut (you'd be best served finding a used 944 turbo), I'm looking at this as a daily driver GT car which is how Audi intended it. [snipping has been done]
Personally, the BMW M3 (currently dirve a 2002 e46 M with a few non stock bits) is more interesting to me as it gives 9/10ths the performance at 60% of the price and has split fold down rear seats that accomodate quite an impressive cargo load when called upon. If the new 335i (drove one last weekend) is any indication of the V8 2007 M3 then it ought to be quite a value.
The Gallardo V10 is no slouch of an engine, [more snipping]
On that first point, I agree, but who wants all that junk anyways? I hate having to pay for options I don't want. I don't see how a 2002 996 is a track slut. Just cause it's not loaded with options? I refer anybody who cares for options to a pre-1992 Mercedes S-class brochure...those are basically my thoughts on options ("the automobile is not a lounge" is one of the many things they say to scold people who want luxury in the 1985 brochure, but from what I've seen every brochure from before 1992 has this attitude) I know my dad uses his as a daily driver, and when he bought it at 3.5 years old for $42k including 4 year extended warranty it looked mint (ask DocIt, I know about my automotive cosmetics) and still does (it's been about 8 months of ownership).
Also, I wasn't comparing a used 911 to a new R8, I'm comparing a used 911 to a future used R8 (which I doubt will depreciate much).
Ah, an e46 M3 owner. Well that explains it, 911's and e46 M3's seem to appeal to two poles, people who like e46 M3's hate 911's and people who like 911's hate e46 M3's in my experience (consider I get both Roundel and Panerama to consider what my likely sample size is). I for one like the e36 M3 but can't stand the e46, it comes down to opinion.
The V-10 is no slouch? Audi made it too refined? Have you driven/ridden in one? The engine feels like...what the lambo symbol has coming out the unseen end.
I for one don't care all that much for these small "sports" cars that weigh over 3000lbs (which includes the 911, M3, and R8). IMHO if it's going to be a small impractical sports car, it better be under 3000lbs, otherwise it better be cheap (Mustang GT) or it better be big (which is why I've chosen to build up my 3670lb 1985 S-class rather than buy anything...sheesh it's getting tempting to say what the build entails, but I won't say until it's done, which will be less than 1.5 months from now)
Comments
Turn your head to the left when you do that.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
And no I don't want a 190E 16V, wayyyyy to much maintenance.
http://zwilliams.smugmug.com/
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
Versatility is spelled P-R-N-D-3-2-B
Indeed, this automatic can actually shift slightly quicker than even the quickest human hand. It is also designed to be shifted manually if you prefer Note that the level looks and feels like a manual and is mounted beside your right thigh on the transmission tunnel. A unique shift gate design permits shifting by feel, without constant furtive glances down to find what gear you are in.
Hehehe...I'm probably the only one who finds that humurous. Yes, I do understand the advantages of a manual...but then, automatics make accident avoidance that much easier (I think it was Autoweek that quoted an F1 driver, I think Montoya, as saying he had narrowly avoided what would have been a horrible accident and if his car had a manual transmission he wouldn't have been able to avoid it (he was referring to his person cal, not his race car)), and in a large car add to that air of luxury (to which the brochure said NEIN DAS NICHT RICHTIG "you are not in the soft lap of luxury but in the sure hands of ergonomic science"...they go on to basically scold people who want things like cup holders and digital displays and decorative pieces...which is funny considering what Mercedes does today, though I can't blame them since they have to to compete).
http://zwilliams.smugmug.com/
(edit: er, scratch that on that second one, I don't think it's a euro car).
Ok, so they're about 30k out of your price range.
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
http://zwilliams.smugmug.com/
His car in action http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4SXhcVvcKg
I can't imagine he'll get more than 3k for that.
Plus, you can rest assured you'd walk out of a crash
http://fifthgear.motorwaypileup.patrz.pl/
thing moves in a serious way. Comfy. Lots of get up and go (13's at the
track). Prolly doesn't handle as well as it could but he's gonna fix that.
I am extremely jealous. I'll try and console myself knowing that my car has no possibility for electrical bugs (because it basically has no electronics) while his (and every car built within the past 12 years or so) does.
You will also have the knowledge that spark plugs don't cost $200 either
Ian
I got to drool over the glossys but that was it. We'll see what I get for a
loaner when dropping off the A4 for it's first service...
My dealer sells porches too. What do you suppose I can get a loaner
Porsche? Prolly somewhere between slim and none?
Im a merc lover to the bone. This thing really rings my bell.
Even Porsche owners don't get Porsche loaners (in DC anyways)...instead they give you a Chevy Malibu or a Ford Focus. In fact, the only dealers in the DC area that give you their own make for a loaner are MB dealers, Audi dealers, and VW dealers.
Some guys in some local sport bike group got a bit of surprise to see they couldn't out accelerate our '02 911. I couldn't tell what they were riding, but they were seriously fast, and of course could carry more speed through the turns, but in the straight line stuff they couldn't pull any (and in fact got caught up on at times). I don't have any delusions of grandeur, I know 0-60 they'd dust the 911, but something about that 30-100 range they were slower. Motorcycle guys always say 2 wheels are more fun than 4, but I say they just don't drive those 4 properly. Nothing is more fun than long swooping 4 wheel drifts (which is different from those drift races idiots enjoy).
Oh, and BTW, no real Benz was made after 1991 (1994 if you count the South Africa plant), though plenty of the cars they've made since have been very nice.
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
Any stock modern 1000-1300 will pull a 10 sec pass. Standard 911 do that ? Maybe the local bikes were 600's.
Video
Pics....
Details on Audi's 911 killer
Must have been 600's then. They didn't seem as surprised as I was. At a stop sign there was 2 in front of us and the rest behind, and I like to let bikers ride as a group (increases their visibility to cars that aren't paying attention for one thing), and one of the guys came up to the window and said "You go ahead, you're faster than we are"
When was the last time you priced a 911? Do you really think anyone buy's one for the base price? They are the most obscene option whores in the industry. A decently optioned 911 Carrera will push 90k without a hitch and optioned out to the level the R8 comes standard with will top 110k. The 911 is timeless, but it's also boring. 911's handle like crap, the wieght distribution is so horrid the suspension set ups are required to be extremely soft to the point that they literally bounce down the track. The 911 has a mystique that is far greater than it's reality. This is a derivative of the long standing availability o9f 911 "cup" race car kits and not becuase they are the greatest race cars. The Cayman is a far more interesting car. The 911 is a status symbol at this point. It's the mid-life crisis car of choice. In a year when the V-10 drops into the R8 body you'll have a GT3 killer. A Gallardo with Audi service.
The handling of a 911 can be bad or extremely good, it's just all in the hands of the driver (plus the 996 and later models have a pretty decent weigth distribution so it makes it easier to be good). But it's not just a handling that requires driver ability, but also driver compatability, so I'll let that point rest.
But WTF are you talking about 90K????? The only option I would get on a 997 is metallic paint (and maybe floormats, though it appears those are now a no cost option), not to mention you can get thousands off sticker on a 911 whereas the R8 is likely to be one of those MSRP deals where they'll even try to do a markup. And again, as a specialty car R8 likely won't depreciate hard. You can get a 2002 911 with decent options for people who like those things (power seats, xenons - plus whatever else it was in that technics package, 18" lightweight wheels) for under $40k.
As far as that V-10, the Gallardo can keep it. I've had the "pleasure" of riding in one of those (and a very short drive) and even with Lambo engineering, a V-10 is still the inherently worst engine design there is. Good engines are I-6 or V-12, H-6 and V-8 are ok, I-4...well 4-bangers can be good I suppose if they're small and not too powerful and in a light car (i.e. BMW 2002), but V-10's are just awful.
The only options you'd get...that's not an apple to apples comparison. Equip a 911 in R8 base trim and the price is no longer an issue. Comparing a used 911 to an R8 is equally ridiculous. You want a 911 as a track slut (you'd be best served finding a used 944 turbo), I'm looking at this as a daily driver GT car which is how Audi intended it. The base R8 lines up best with the 911 C4S fully optioned out. In that comparison the Audi is cheaper and comes with a much more sophisticated AWD system and a rock solid engine. Both cars are capapble 4 season GT's but the Audi is not plagued with the 911's inherent design flaws. True the 996/7 have tamed the beast, but only through the addition of electronic systems and not through elegant design. The Audi was a clean slate (well the Gallardo was anyway) and suffers none of the pitfalls of being forced to design within a 50 year old shape / form factor that the 911 purists demand.
Personally, the BMW M3 (currently dirve a 2002 e46 M with a few non stock bits) is more interesting to me as it gives 9/10ths the performance at 60% of the price and has split fold down rear seats that accomodate quite an impressive cargo load when called upon. If the new 335i (drove one last weekend) is any indication of the V8 2007 M3 then it ought to be quite a value.
The Gallardo V10 is no slouch of an engine, the weak link in that car was the inherent Audiness in a Lambo. It was simply too refined to wear the charging bull. It ought to play better in 4 ring skin though i'd much prefer a twin turbo version of the 4.2 V8. Perhaps the most intruiging aspects of the R8 are the Audi magnetic suspension and the real deal sR-tronic sequential gear box plucked right from the Audi Racing parts bin. Don't forget the same 4.2 engine blasts the 17% heavier RS4 to 60 in 4.6 seconds clearly putting Audi's performance numbers for the R8 on the conservative side.
In reality, the R8 is squarely aimed at the 911 carrera. It ought to be a good fight. Either way it's good to see Audi jump into the deep end of the pool with something as fresh and chalenging as the TT was almost a decade ago.
Also, I wasn't comparing a used 911 to a new R8, I'm comparing a used 911 to a future used R8 (which I doubt will depreciate much).
Ah, an e46 M3 owner. Well that explains it, 911's and e46 M3's seem to appeal to two poles, people who like e46 M3's hate 911's and people who like 911's hate e46 M3's in my experience (consider I get both Roundel and Panerama to consider what my likely sample size is). I for one like the e36 M3 but can't stand the e46, it comes down to opinion.
The V-10 is no slouch? Audi made it too refined? Have you driven/ridden in one? The engine feels like...what the lambo symbol has coming out the unseen end.
I for one don't care all that much for these small "sports" cars that weigh over 3000lbs (which includes the 911, M3, and R8). IMHO if it's going to be a small impractical sports car, it better be under 3000lbs, otherwise it better be cheap (Mustang GT) or it better be big (which is why I've chosen to build up my 3670lb 1985 S-class rather than buy anything...sheesh it's getting tempting to say what the build entails, but I won't say until it's done, which will be less than 1.5 months from now)
http://www.noblecars.com/m15/index.html
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]