A few days with Marc and damn near private instruction would be too cool
(checking vacation balance....).
Ian, you were at Yosemite with us, so you've had a taste of what it could be like to have only 10 people on a workshop with Marc. It's a great opportunity. In this other thread, Marc is talking about making your own luck. This is something he's really good at, and I don't think it's luck at all, but a deeply rooted intuition about where and when to be, based on years of experience. So not only do you get great instruction, but you get to piggy back on that intuition, and hopefully develop some of your own.
Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
edited January 31, 2007
equipment
When it comes to the proper equipment I only recommend what I use. If you can't get your hands on such equipment don't worry. I will teach you how to stitch hundreds of photos together from a point and shoot!
Marc has a big list of people who've attended past workshops with him. We will be notifying them very shortly, and these last 5 spots should go pretty quickly....
....so if you've been on the fence, now is the time to GET OFF!
Dgrin had the jump on this workshop, but it ain't gonna last long...so sign up now.
Gearing Up for Utah
I'm looking for some advice from people who have upgraded from the Canon 20D to the 5D. I have been using my 20D for 2 years and have been patiently waiting to upgrade with an updated version of the 5D. Now that I'm going on the Wild Utah workshop that is only a few months away, I don't know whether I should take advantage of the current Canon $600 rebate on the 5D or stick it out until it is updated. My gut feeling is that by using my 20D during the workshop I will limit the IQ on my photos but not my learning experiences. My main concern about getting a 5D is the publicity it has received for having excessive sensor and viewfinder dust and hope a new updated model will improve this condition. If I buy the 5D now I will have a camera with improved IQ capability, most of its bugs fixed, and have my 20D as a backup camera for the Utah workshop. On the other hand I usually like to buy the latest technology. I keep going back and forth on getting the 5D. Any advice is appreciated.
Fred, for important shots, and short of running out and buying a 5D, you could place the 20D in portrait and fire off 2 overlapped shots and stitch them later for a 12MP pic (or more). In fact, that's one of the topics of the trip.
Fred, for important shots, and short of running out and buying a 5D, you could place the 20D in portrait and fire off 2 overlapped shots and stitch them later for a 12MP pic (or more). In fact, that's one of the topics of the trip.
In addition to what David just said I think Marc's gonna use his Tilt-Shift lens (24mm) he was using in Utah last spring. Its shift mode allows for some amazing panos with pretty much zero distortion (however, sturdy tripod is a sine qua non in this case).
In addition to what David just said I think Marc's gonna use his Tilt-Shift lens (24mm) he was using in Utah last spring. Its shift mode allows for some amazing panos with pretty much zero distortion (however, sturdy tripod is a sine qua non in this case).
HTH
He is, and on a 1.6x body, the 24 is a little tight. Perfect on full frame!
He is, and on a 1.6x body, the 24 is a little tight. Perfect on full frame!
It's not *that* tight. (I used it during the same trip, remember? ;-)
Besides, the very technique David_S85 described allows for a easily done 12..16Mp composits.
On a FF body you'd get a lot more vignetting (and CA on the edge, esp. if shifted all the way). I got only a taste of it on my 30D, on the 5D you'd get the whole entree...
"May the f/stop be with you!"
0
Options
Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
I'm looking for some advice from people who have upgraded from the Canon 20D to the 5D. I have been using my 20D for 2 years and have been patiently waiting to upgrade with an updated version of the 5D. Now that I'm going on the Wild Utah workshop that is only a few months away, I don't know whether I should take advantage of the current Canon $600 rebate on the 5D or stick it out until it is updated. My gut feeling is that by using my 20D during the workshop I will limit the IQ on my photos but not my learning experiences. My main concern about getting a 5D is the publicity it has received for having excessive sensor and viewfinder dust and hope a new updated model will improve this condition. If I buy the 5D now I will have a camera with improved IQ capability, most of its bugs fixed, and have my 20D as a backup camera for the Utah workshop. On the other hand I usually like to buy the latest technology. I keep going back and forth on getting the 5D. Any advice is appreciated.
Hello Fred
If it makes you feel any better, I go through the very same gyrations!
However, just so ya know, Canon will release a 40D that may just be your answer since you might have lenses now that you don't want to change as the 40D will most likely have a 1.6 chip. I would not want a back up with a diff size chip, although that is only my opinion! However, If you can afford it, you could buy the 5D and use it for wide angle shooting and keep your 20D for telephoto shooting. This would prevent you from having to change lenses (which is what causes most of the dirty sensors) and offer you the ease of always being locked and loaded for both focal length shots!
I did several comparisons with some cronies here at my studio and we decided that the 12mp 5d was about 90% the camera of the 1ds M2 for 1/2 the price. In close scrutiny the color noise was less which can be a large plus in sky shots!
Fred, for important shots, and short of running out and buying a 5D, you could place the 20D in portrait and fire off 2 overlapped shots and stitch them later for a 12MP pic (or more). In fact, that's one of the topics of the trip.
Hi Dave,
Thanks for your response. I am on board with your thinking. My plan is to shoot Utah with the 20D and if Canon comes out with a great new FF in time for the trip, then I'll get that too. My wheels have already been turning to prepare for taking pano shots. In fact, I already ordered a new RRS pano package and L-plate for the 20D last week. You did a great job on your tutorial for the pano rail calibration !!! I hope to receive and set mine up soon.
Hello Fred
If it makes you feel any better, I go through the very same gyrations!
However, just so ya know, Canon will release a 40D that may just be your answer since you might have lenses now that you don't want to change as the 40D will most likely have a 1.6 chip. I would not want a back up with a diff size chip, although that is only my opinion! However, If you can afford it, you could buy the 5D and use it for wide angle shooting and keep your 20D for telephoto shooting. This would prevent you from having to change lenses (which is what causes most of the dirty sensors) and offer you the ease of always being locked and loaded for both focal length shots!
I did several comparisons with some cronies here at my studio and we decided that the 12mp 5d was about 90% the camera of the 1ds M2 for 1/2 the price. In close scrutiny the color noise was less which can be a large plus in sky shots!
Hi Marc,
Thanks for your response. I'm really looking forward to the Utah workshop. I've been eyeing the 5D for more than a year now while hoping for an updated model release. Most of my recent lense purchases were selected for my 20D but with anticipation for use on a future FF body. The only lense I would need to lose is the EFS10-22 for possibly a 17-40. My complete lense lineup is in my profile. At this time I agree with the stategy that David S85 suggested to me earlier in this thread. I'm gonna forego the current 5D and use my 20D at the Utah workshop unless Canon releases something sweet beforehand.
I'm psyched!!! It's time to learn how to shoot better panos. I have already selected my pano equipment in anticipation of the upcomming workshop. Last week I placed my order for a Really Right Stuff 192 Precision Plus Package, PCL-1 Paning Clamp, PCL-DVTL quick release dovetail mount for the PCL-1 base, and a 20D L-plate. They will be mounted on the RRS BH-55 ballhead I already use.
Thanks again for your camera insight and any other equipment recommendations you may have.
In addition to what David just said I think Marc's gonna use his Tilt-Shift lens (24mm) he was using in Utah last spring. Its shift mode allows for some amazing panos with pretty much zero distortion (however, sturdy tripod is a sine qua non in this case).
HTH
I'd like to see how this lense performs....maybe even try one too.
I'd like to see how this lense performs....maybe even try one too.
We will have plenty of time for just that as the days are very long.
A great pano has a purpose!
One of the creative elements about the way I have fallen into shooting panos is the concept of "building compositions". You either form the composition first in your minds eye than take the necessary images to fulfill the entire image or If that does not occur, you may find yourself stumbleing into the shot as you are re-composing it in Adobe Photomerge later! Either way you become more involved with the composition than ever before. I compare the process with how I used to shoot with the large format 4 x 5. But it gets better, the traditional aspect ratios that we have come to use, 2 to 3 (35mm) or 4 x 5 (large format) are forgotten, lending the photographer unlimited possibilities. I believe new book formats might even be in the near future to accommodate such creative thinking.:ivar
The very best way to illustrate this "building compositions" is on location!
We will have plenty of time for just that as the days are very long.
A great pano has a purpose!
One of the creative elements about the way I have fallen into shooting panos is the concept of "building compositions". You either form the composition first in your minds eye than take the necessary images to fulfill the entire image or If that does not occur, you may find yourself stumbleing into the shot as you are re-composing it in Adobe Photomerge later! Either way you become more involved with the composition than ever before. I compare the process with how I used to shoot with the large format 4 x 5. But it gets better, the traditional aspect ratios that we have come to use, 2 to 3 (35mm) or 4 x 5 (large format) are forgotten, lending the photographer unlimited possibilities. I believe new book formats might even be in the near future to accommodate such creative thinking.:ivar
The very best way to illustrate this "building compositions" is on location!
Interesting.... Is this kind of like what your eye does as you are taking a scene in? Often I'm at a place and I'm soaking it all in. The impression in my mind is a particular image of the place. Yet, when I bring the camera up and try various locations and focal lengths I can't seem to capture what's in my mind. So, is this technique basically "scanning" the scene the way your eye did to create that impression of the place?
Erich
0
Options
Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
Interesting.... Is this kind of like what your eye does as you are taking a scene in? Often I'm at a place and I'm soaking it all in. The impression in my mind is a particular image of the place. Yet, when I bring the camera up and try various locations and focal lengths I can't seem to capture what's in my mind. So, is this technique basically "scanning" the scene the way your eye did to create that impression of the place?
Erich
I believe part of the creative process is similar to what you suggest. The difficult part is, and will always remain, what part of what our eye takes in makes a composition in the two dimensional world? Therefore I am not suggesting that one merely shoots everything in hopes of finding the composition later. Rather, once I locate a composition, I am no longer restricted to a particular focal length. The process demands a better understanding of composition than single shot seeing, as when shooting this way I must know a composition with out verifying through the lens or in the display. Since I have spent over 15 years working with a large format camera, yes, under the dark cloth and the works I am now able to see the composition most of the time before looking through any view finder. With this experience I am now able to build up enough exposures to encompass the entire composition and not see any results until later in my studio.
I believe part of the creative process is similar to what you suggest. The difficult part is, and will always remain, what part of what our eye takes in makes a composition in the two dimensional world? Therefore I am not suggesting that one merely shoots everything in hopes of finding the composition later. Rather, once I locate a composition, I am no longer restricted to a particular focal length. The process demands a better understanding of composition than single shot seeing, as when shooting this way I must know a composition with out verifying through the lens or in the display. Since I have spent over 15 years working with a large format camera, yes, under the dark cloth and the works I am now able to see the composition most of the time before looking through any view finder. With this experience I am now able to build up enough exposures to encompass the entire composition and not see any results until later in my studio.
So you actually take pictures at *different* focal lengths and then combine them into a single composition? How do you keep lens distortions/artifacts from creating seams in your composite image?
0
Options
Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
So you actually take pictures at *different* focal lengths and then combine them into a single composition? How do you keep lens distortions/artifacts from creating seams in your composite image?
Wow! that could actually be cool, but not!
I always use the same lens, shutter speed, aperature, and focus point during the creation of one image. What I mean by not being restricted to one focal length is that when ever multiple images are stitched together, the combined effect is that of what would be a completely different focal length.
You might want to check out Katrin's version of this,,
I outta drive over and meet ya guys at CNM lol This place is utterly awesome, like a mini Grand Canyon and best of all, not many folks there! Check out Google Images to see what I am talkin about http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=colorado%20national%20monument&btnG=Google+Search&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi It could make for some very magical night time long exposure shots if ya all have some free time after the intro night, it would be full starlight, no city lights to mess things up. CNM has been on my hitlist for a long while now!
Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
edited February 20, 2007
You are correct!
There are enough locations between Grand Junction and Hanksville to take a lifetime exploring. May is a great time of year to burn both ends of the candle. Early sunrise and late sunset makes for long afternoons. This will give us some time to discuss Photoshop in detail as I will have my projector and laptop. The best critiques always occur following the long hours of a shoot just as one enters the delirious stage of ones creativity. It is amazing what our minds do given the opportunity.:ivar
Comments
A few days with Marc and damn near private instruction would be too cool
(checking vacation balance....).
Ian, you were at Yosemite with us, so you've had a taste of what it could be like to have only 10 people on a workshop with Marc. It's a great opportunity. In this other thread, Marc is talking about making your own luck. This is something he's really good at, and I don't think it's luck at all, but a deeply rooted intuition about where and when to be, based on years of experience. So not only do you get great instruction, but you get to piggy back on that intuition, and hopefully develop some of your own.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
When it comes to the proper equipment I only recommend what I use. If you can't get your hands on such equipment don't worry. I will teach you how to stitch hundreds of photos together from a point and shoot!
Muench Workshops
MW on Facebook
Awesome!!!
But you're not "in" until your deposit is "in"!!!!!
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Received!
Only 5 spots left.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
We can resume our previous discussions of riding to Alaska.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
Photos that don't suck / 365 / Film & Lomography
Marc has a big list of people who've attended past workshops with him. We will be notifying them very shortly, and these last 5 spots should go pretty quickly....
....so if you've been on the fence, now is the time to GET OFF!
Dgrin had the jump on this workshop, but it ain't gonna last long...so sign up now.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
I'm looking for some advice from people who have upgraded from the Canon 20D to the 5D. I have been using my 20D for 2 years and have been patiently waiting to upgrade with an updated version of the 5D. Now that I'm going on the Wild Utah workshop that is only a few months away, I don't know whether I should take advantage of the current Canon $600 rebate on the 5D or stick it out until it is updated. My gut feeling is that by using my 20D during the workshop I will limit the IQ on my photos but not my learning experiences. My main concern about getting a 5D is the publicity it has received for having excessive sensor and viewfinder dust and hope a new updated model will improve this condition. If I buy the 5D now I will have a camera with improved IQ capability, most of its bugs fixed, and have my 20D as a backup camera for the Utah workshop. On the other hand I usually like to buy the latest technology. I keep going back and forth on getting the 5D. Any advice is appreciated.
http://photosbyfred.smugmug.com/
Do you have an L-bracket for your cam and a good tripod head? Better yet, those plus a pano rail? Tute here for calibrating rail & L bracket (for a 20D) to shoot pano's.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
In addition to what David just said I think Marc's gonna use his Tilt-Shift lens (24mm) he was using in Utah last spring. Its shift mode allows for some amazing panos with pretty much zero distortion (however, sturdy tripod is a sine qua non in this case).
HTH
He is, and on a 1.6x body, the 24 is a little tight. Perfect on full frame!
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
It's not *that* tight. (I used it during the same trip, remember?
Besides, the very technique David_S85 described allows for a easily done 12..16Mp composits.
On a FF body you'd get a lot more vignetting (and CA on the edge, esp. if shifted all the way). I got only a taste of it on my 30D, on the 5D you'd get the whole entree...
Hello Fred
If it makes you feel any better, I go through the very same gyrations!
However, just so ya know, Canon will release a 40D that may just be your answer since you might have lenses now that you don't want to change as the 40D will most likely have a 1.6 chip. I would not want a back up with a diff size chip, although that is only my opinion! However, If you can afford it, you could buy the 5D and use it for wide angle shooting and keep your 20D for telephoto shooting. This would prevent you from having to change lenses (which is what causes most of the dirty sensors) and offer you the ease of always being locked and loaded for both focal length shots!
I did several comparisons with some cronies here at my studio and we decided that the 12mp 5d was about 90% the camera of the 1ds M2 for 1/2 the price. In close scrutiny the color noise was less which can be a large plus in sky shots!
Muench Workshops
MW on Facebook
Hi Dave,
Thanks for your response. I am on board with your thinking. My plan is to shoot Utah with the 20D and if Canon comes out with a great new FF in time for the trip, then I'll get that too. My wheels have already been turning to prepare for taking pano shots.
http://photosbyfred.smugmug.com/
Hi Marc,
Thanks for your response. I'm really looking forward to the Utah workshop. I've been eyeing the 5D for more than a year now while hoping for an updated model release. Most of my recent lense purchases were selected for my 20D but with anticipation for use on a future FF body. The only lense I would need to lose is the EFS10-22 for possibly a 17-40. My complete lense lineup is in my profile. At this time I agree with the stategy that David S85 suggested to me earlier in this thread. I'm gonna forego the current 5D and use my 20D at the Utah workshop unless Canon releases something sweet beforehand.
I'm psyched!!! It's time to learn how to shoot better panos. I have already selected my pano equipment in anticipation of the upcomming workshop.
Thanks again for your camera insight and any other equipment recommendations you may have.
http://photosbyfred.smugmug.com/
I'd like to see how this lense performs....maybe even try one too.
http://photosbyfred.smugmug.com/
We will have plenty of time for just that as the days are very long.
A great pano has a purpose!
The very best way to illustrate this "building compositions" is on location!
Muench Workshops
MW on Facebook
Interesting.... Is this kind of like what your eye does as you are taking a scene in? Often I'm at a place and I'm soaking it all in. The impression in my mind is a particular image of the place. Yet, when I bring the camera up and try various locations and focal lengths I can't seem to capture what's in my mind. So, is this technique basically "scanning" the scene the way your eye did to create that impression of the place?
Erich
Muench Workshops
MW on Facebook
So you actually take pictures at *different* focal lengths and then combine them into a single composition? How do you keep lens distortions/artifacts from creating seams in your composite image?
Wow! that could actually be cool
I always use the same lens, shutter speed, aperature, and focus point during the creation of one image. What I mean by not being restricted to one focal length is that when ever multiple images are stitched together, the combined effect is that of what would be a completely different focal length.
You might want to check out Katrin's version of this,,
http://www.photoshopdiva.com/images/new_gallerys/photomerge/index.html
Muench Workshops
MW on Facebook
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
website | photoblog | facebook | twitter | deviantArt | RedBubble
There are enough locations between Grand Junction and Hanksville to take a lifetime exploring. May is a great time of year to burn both ends of the candle. Early sunrise and late sunset makes for long afternoons. This will give us some time to discuss Photoshop in detail as I will have my projector and laptop. The best critiques always occur following the long hours of a shoot just as one enters the delirious stage of ones creativity.
Muench Workshops
MW on Facebook
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops