I'm swethering..... 7D or 5DII! Same as many others - and it's a tough shout!
Looking at your site, I would think that the choice would be easy.
The 5DMKII will be better for what you shoot. (except the birds and sport shots)
I have both of these cameras, I bought the 5DMKII about a year ago.
It's a great camera, but, if you do a lot of wildlife shooting, and find that you end
up cropping alot, as I do, the 7D will put more pixels at your disposal than the 5DMKII.
I mounted my 300mm lens to a tripod, and placed a ruler in the test frame of the shot I was taking.
I then mounted the 5D2 and took a shot, then mounted the 7D and took a shot.
With the 5DMKII, 7 inches on that ruler took up 1440 pixels. With the 7D, the same 7 inches
took up 2140 pixels. That's about a 50% increase of pixels on a subject with the same lense, at the same distance.
So if you do alot of birding or sports shooting where the subjects are out there and you end up
cropping ... a bunch, the 7D would be the right camera.
The 5DMKII I think handles noise better at higher iso's. The full frame and 21 megapixels help out
with landscapes and portraits. But it can't do 8 frames a second (wow can you rack up the shots that way)
Reading this thread a bit, I came to the conclusion that a photographer who qualifies all those rules should be paid by Canon to join that club and not the other way around! What do these clowns think? that after spending $20k or more they need their club to send them a temporary replacement body?
Or is this the "you're not worthy enough to join our club" kind of thing, with these rules like some form of ballot commission?
ciao!
Nick.
ciao!
Nick.
my equipment: Canon 5D2, 7D, full list here
my Smugmug site: here
In defense of Canon Professional Services (CPS) and Nikon Professional Services (NPS), these are advantages that professionals are happy to pay for and it yields very tangible benefits for the professionals that choose to use the services. (Not all professionals choose to join.)
I'm not a pro but I do own a 7D and think it is a great camera.
If it were designed solely with the needs of a professional photographer in mind, (isn't that what a "pro" camera is?) why would it have a full automatic shooting mode just like the rebel and xxD lines?
Zackwww.zackjonesphotography.net
EOS 7D, Zeiss 50mm f/1.4, EF 24-70mm f/2.8L, EF 135mm f/2L, EF 200mm f/2.8L II, EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF 1.4 Ext II, 430EX, ST-E2, Tamrac Velocity 10X & Expeditioner 7 Bags.
I know I'm WAY late to the coversation, but if the 7d isn't "pro" then I guess our 3 40d's aren't either... even though those 40d's (and our skills) earned us close to $175k in revenues in 2009.
not exactly sure why this is even a debate, but whatver, I thought I'd throw my 2c in.
Las Vegas Wedding, Family, and Special Event Photographers.
Canon 7d
2 Canon 40d
70-200 f2.8L IS, 50mm f1.4, 50mm f1.8, 28mm f1.8, Tamron 17-55 f2.8, ProOptic 8mm Fisheye
And a bunch of other stuff
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[Deleted User]Major grinsRockledge, FL on the Space CoastPosts: 0Major grins
The curious thing is that this seems to be a "hot button" topic, although I'm glad that most folks are treating it with the good nature that the topic really deserves.
I see the application of the term "professional" as having 2 meanings:
1) A "grading" of equipment, based upon manufacturer ratings and durability and feature rankings.
2) A suitability for "professional" usage, as in, "I use (insert camera, lens or accessory here) for professional work and I find it suitable to that application."
Toss in the abbreviation "pro" and the colloquial term "prosumer" just to confuse and confound, and I think we wind up in the current situation of trying to define multiple things with common terms and definitions. It's probably not sensible to expect a simple solution.
It surely is fun to see the different views and perspectives however.
I know I'm WAY late to the coversation, but if the 7d isn't "pro" then I guess our 3 40d's aren't either... even though those 40d's (and our skills) earned us close to $175k in revenues in 2009.
not exactly sure why this is even a debate, but whatver, I thought I'd throw my 2c in.
It's got nothing to do with the photographers skills or lack there of. It's the designation by the company who manufactured them. And no Canon doesn't deem the 40D's as pro bodies.
I used to sell "professional" televisions. Not monitors, displays... TV's. They were intended, by the manufacturer, to watch TV programming. Still, they were called the "professional" line (forgive me if I can't remember the brand off the top of my head). I doubt that anyone other than the manufacturer made money off of the use of the TV (unlike a camera). It does not create any product able to be sold.
Regardless, if we go based on what the manufacturer calls the line, vs the actual and practical use, then there are a slew of things that are "professional" that will never garner a profit for the end user.
Would a Canon 7D satisfy the very 'best' professional photographers?
If covers the majority of their needs then perhaps it is a 'professional grade' camera.
People seem to be missing the point and getting hung up on what we as photographers use our cameras for. No one has said or implied that a "professional" (and thats opened to your own interpretation) can't get great results from any body. Thats not in question. The sticking point is the manufacturer of the bodies, THEY are the ones that don't deem some bodies to be "pro" level.
"Pro" and "Professional" are just marketing buzz-words the manufacturer uses. They have nothing to do with the definition of the words, if semantics is the issue of understanding here.
Main Entry: 1pro·fes·sion·al
Pronunciation: \prə-ˈfesh-nəl, -ˈfe-shə-nəl\
Function: adjective
Date: 1606
1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b : engaged in one of the learned professions c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace
2 a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b : having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football>
3 : following a line of conduct as though it were a profession <a professional patriot>
— pro·fes·sion·al·ly adverb
"Pro" and "Professional" are just marketing buzz-words the manufacturer uses. They have nothing to do with the definition of the words, if semantics is the issue of understanding here.
They are only 'pro' cameras because most of the professionals use them and they have professional performance and durability. Which is why I use them.
The 7D is a remarkable camera and one I'd recommend (even though I don't own one. I own a Mark II N).
People seem to be missing the point and getting hung up on what we as photographers use our cameras for. No one has said or implied that a "professional" (and thats opened to your own interpretation) can't get great results from any body. Thats not in question. The sticking point is the manufacturer of the bodies, THEY are the ones that don't deem some bodies to be "pro" level.
Fotoworx, you are looking at this in a very one-sided manor. There are many ways to approach a topic and some people do it differently than others. There were no rules saying that we were supposed to discuss what the manufacturer deems the camera. I think you are missing the point that this is an open discussion and it is fine if people want to look at this differently than you.
Fotoworx, you are looking at this in a very one-sided manor. There are many ways to approach a topic and some people do it differently than others. There were no rules saying that we were supposed to discuss what the manufacturer deems the camera. I think you are missing the point that this is an open discussion and it is fine if people want to look at this differently than you.
You're one of the ones thats missing the point. Theres only one way to look at it when the manufacturer deems the body to NOT be a pro level body and not be eligable for CPS.
You may like to think you have a pro level body, thats fine.....but Canon don't think you do.
You're one of the ones thats missing the point. Theres only one way to look at it when the manufacturer deems the body to NOT be a pro level body and not be eligable for CPS.
You may like to think you have a pro level body, thats fine.....but Canon don't think you do.
Again fotoworx, there are two ways to look at it.
1. The manufacturer considers it a pro body or not.
2. The body accomplishes pro needs and regardless of the manufacturer's classification it works for professional use.
And no, I am not missing the point because there are truly different ways of looking at the same subject. Neither is wrong unless you only want to be one sided and consider only the manufacturer.
Also, I am not disagreeing with the fact that Canon doesn't consider the 7D a pro camera.
In regards to Canon 1 series pro bodies thats not true at all.
In regards to their top-of-the-line, this is our best camera in our eyes, I agree (on terms of their best, but not professional by definition), but for all intents and purposes, it's still marketing.
Comments
Looking at your site, I would think that the choice would be easy.
The 5DMKII will be better for what you shoot. (except the birds and sport shots)
I have both of these cameras, I bought the 5DMKII about a year ago.
It's a great camera, but, if you do a lot of wildlife shooting, and find that you end
up cropping alot, as I do, the 7D will put more pixels at your disposal than the 5DMKII.
I mounted my 300mm lens to a tripod, and placed a ruler in the test frame of the shot I was taking.
I then mounted the 5D2 and took a shot, then mounted the 7D and took a shot.
With the 5DMKII, 7 inches on that ruler took up 1440 pixels. With the 7D, the same 7 inches
took up 2140 pixels. That's about a 50% increase of pixels on a subject with the same lense, at the same distance.
So if you do alot of birding or sports shooting where the subjects are out there and you end up
cropping ... a bunch, the 7D would be the right camera.
The 5DMKII I think handles noise better at higher iso's. The full frame and 21 megapixels help out
with landscapes and portraits. But it can't do 8 frames a second (wow can you rack up the shots that way)
Basking in the shadows of yesterday's triumphs'.
Or is this the "you're not worthy enough to join our club" kind of thing, with these rules like some form of ballot commission?
ciao!
Nick.
Nick.
my equipment: Canon 5D2, 7D, full list here
my Smugmug site: here
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
I'm not a pro but I do own a 7D and think it is a great camera.
If it were designed solely with the needs of a professional photographer in mind, (isn't that what a "pro" camera is?) why would it have a full automatic shooting mode just like the rebel and xxD lines?
EOS 7D, Zeiss 50mm f/1.4, EF 24-70mm f/2.8L, EF 135mm f/2L, EF 200mm f/2.8L II, EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF 1.4 Ext II, 430EX, ST-E2, Tamrac Velocity 10X & Expeditioner 7 Bags.
Bear
Some of my photos on Flickr
My Facebook
Yes. Pro in some markets and non-pro in others.
Malte
Bear
Some of my photos on Flickr
My Facebook
What a revealing and relieving consensus...
Does it still count as a pro-body?
Dunno'.......does it lift weights ?
Bear
Some of my photos on Flickr
My Facebook
not exactly sure why this is even a debate, but whatver, I thought I'd throw my 2c in.
Canon 7d
2 Canon 40d
70-200 f2.8L IS, 50mm f1.4, 50mm f1.8, 28mm f1.8, Tamron 17-55 f2.8, ProOptic 8mm Fisheye
And a bunch of other stuff
Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
~ Gear Pictures
The curious thing is that this seems to be a "hot button" topic, although I'm glad that most folks are treating it with the good nature that the topic really deserves.
I see the application of the term "professional" as having 2 meanings:
1) A "grading" of equipment, based upon manufacturer ratings and durability and feature rankings.
2) A suitability for "professional" usage, as in, "I use (insert camera, lens or accessory here) for professional work and I find it suitable to that application."
Toss in the abbreviation "pro" and the colloquial term "prosumer" just to confuse and confound, and I think we wind up in the current situation of trying to define multiple things with common terms and definitions. It's probably not sensible to expect a simple solution.
It surely is fun to see the different views and perspectives however.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
It's got nothing to do with the photographers skills or lack there of. It's the designation by the company who manufactured them. And no Canon doesn't deem the 40D's as pro bodies.
Bear
Some of my photos on Flickr
My Facebook
Regardless, if we go based on what the manufacturer calls the line, vs the actual and practical use, then there are a slew of things that are "professional" that will never garner a profit for the end user.
http://silversx80.smugmug.com/
Olympus E-M5, 12-50mm, 45mm f/1.8
Some legacy OM lenses and an OM-10
Would a Canon 7D satisfy the very 'best' professional photographers?
If covers the majority of their needs then perhaps it is a 'professional grade' camera.
People seem to be missing the point and getting hung up on what we as photographers use our cameras for. No one has said or implied that a "professional" (and thats opened to your own interpretation) can't get great results from any body. Thats not in question. The sticking point is the manufacturer of the bodies, THEY are the ones that don't deem some bodies to be "pro" level.
Bear
Some of my photos on Flickr
My Facebook
http://silversx80.smugmug.com/
Olympus E-M5, 12-50mm, 45mm f/1.8
Some legacy OM lenses and an OM-10
They are only 'pro' cameras because most of the professionals use them and they have professional performance and durability. Which is why I use them.
The 7D is a remarkable camera and one I'd recommend (even though I don't own one. I own a Mark II N).
Oh, and hello
Fotoworx, you are looking at this in a very one-sided manor. There are many ways to approach a topic and some people do it differently than others. There were no rules saying that we were supposed to discuss what the manufacturer deems the camera. I think you are missing the point that this is an open discussion and it is fine if people want to look at this differently than you.
You're one of the ones thats missing the point. Theres only one way to look at it when the manufacturer deems the body to NOT be a pro level body and not be eligable for CPS.
You may like to think you have a pro level body, thats fine.....but Canon don't think you do.
Bear
Some of my photos on Flickr
My Facebook
In regards to Canon 1 series pro bodies thats not true at all.
Bear
Some of my photos on Flickr
My Facebook
1. The manufacturer considers it a pro body or not.
2. The body accomplishes pro needs and regardless of the manufacturer's classification it works for professional use.
And no, I am not missing the point because there are truly different ways of looking at the same subject. Neither is wrong unless you only want to be one sided and consider only the manufacturer.
Also, I am not disagreeing with the fact that Canon doesn't consider the 7D a pro camera.
In the US, they do.
But regardless - even if Canon didn't classify it as 'pro' - and I know they don't where you live - WHO CARES?.
Pro is as pro does.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
In regards to their top-of-the-line, this is our best camera in our eyes, I agree (on terms of their best, but not professional by definition), but for all intents and purposes, it's still marketing.
http://silversx80.smugmug.com/
Olympus E-M5, 12-50mm, 45mm f/1.8
Some legacy OM lenses and an OM-10
Well then we are in 100% harmony because thats all I've said all along
Bear
Some of my photos on Flickr
My Facebook
Since like page 3 of this thread.
www.tednghiem.com
Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
~ Gear Pictures