True, although it was a very close thing. I shoot film (or perhaps more properly "shot") on a Nikon FG and really like Nikkor lenses; I was biased towards the D100 when I went shopping for my first DSLR. Thing was, the 300D was a much better buy at the time - images every bit as good, but half the cost. Had the D70 been out three months earlier I think I'd still be shooting Nikon.
A series of L lenses later and I'm effectively locked into Canon (my order for a 30D will be in right around the time B&H starts taking orders for it).
To be completely blunt about it once you get above the consumer DSLR line I don't see any significant difference between the two brands. I'd happily take either. At the consumer level I like the D50/70/70s better than the 300D and, especially, the 350D (whose speed and sensor I like, but ergonomics and battery I do not). And the lenses ... six of one, half a dozen of the other in my book. They both make great lenses with the occasional "what were they thinking?" model.
For my use the only significant difference between the brands is the superior Nikon lens caps. And you can buy them for your Canon lenses if you want, which I did.
jim frost
jimf@frostbytes.com
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Matthew SavilleRegistered Users, Retired ModPosts: 3,352Major grins
...I shoot film (or perhaps more properly "shot")...
You poor soul, you mean you've abandoned the art that is film photography?
Hehe I jest, but honestly I haven't been able to change from "shoot" to "shot" yet because I find that when I shoot film for some reason it drives me to compose better images and take better care of my settings. (probably because there's fewer settings to take care of!)
To me, film is a source of creativity that supplements my digital shooting, and it will continue to be even after I can upgrade to a DSLR that actually betters the quality of my Velvia.
On another note, sometimes I suspect that "the grass is greener"... When I shoot with a 20D and my D70 side-by-side, the results on the 20D look just fantastic on the LCD compared to my D70. But then when I view the CRW's in CS2, things look quite equal. To me the biggest caveat is exposure. Nikon had this wonderful RGB matrix meter and, in my opinion, they threw it out the window so they could favor "highlight preservation" ...Which some consider a blessing, but I absolutely hate it. The only redeeming factor is the D70's spot meter, which I enjoy using quite often. I dunno if this is everyone else's experience, but I've had my body checked twice by Nikon service and twice they "adjusted" the light meter, and still I get a histogram clumped up on the left half of the image, "preserving" highlights by putting sometimes a ridiculous 2-3 stops between the brightest detail and the "edge of burning".
Any way, other than that I see no real difference between the Nikon and Canon systems. Nikon has the joypad, Canon has the wheel. I prefer the joypad. Nikon has put the power button in the same spot on it's entire lineup as far as I know, and Canon can't seem to decide where to put it. (And the latest locations aren't anywhere NEAR where I could access them when picking the camera up one-handed.)
Considering that Canon also makes a 24-85mm lens which specs (especially the range and sharpness) I love on my Nikon, and since Tokina makes a 12-24mm DX almost as good as Nikon's, I would have no problem giving the Canon system a spin for my landscape / nature photography some day when I can afford it.
Nikon has put the power button in the same spot on it's entire lineup as far as I know, and Canon can't seem to decide where to put it. (And the latest locations aren't anywhere NEAR where I could access them when picking the camera up one-handed.)
Why would you ever turn a camera off? Except to put it away!
I once saw someone describe how they handle turning their camera on and off. It went something like: "Wake up, turn camera on ... shoot ... turn camera off, go to bed."
I have yet to see anything comparable. I'm all ears, if there are any? And don't give me that junk about Canonites having to shoot at 1600 and 3200. The point is, you don't want to or have to, but when you NEED it, it's sure nice to have - and dependable!
If nikon are that good why do they fall to bits when some pressure is on with high ISO.
From a scientific study of recent purchases by dgrin members, Nikons don't need any high ISO pressure to fall to bits. They just do it without any help at all.
So, Andy, here's a serious question. Yes, I know it's out of place in this thread, but that never stopped me before.
How do the medium format backs do in the high ISO department? There really is no reason why the makers should want them to do well, since I think they are mostly used in studios. But they do have much larger pixels then the dSLRs we know and love, which should naturally lead to low noise.
Who saw Capote? Who was jealous of Avedon when he was shooting Perry Smith and Capote with his Haselblad. Man! Make that thing digital and I'll kill for it.
I dug through my Avedon books and didn't find any of Perry Smith. I think they are in a book coauthored with Truman Capote. I'll be trying to find that book.
From a scientific study of recent purchases by dgrin members, Nikons don't need any high ISO pressure to fall to bits. They just do it without any help at all.
I haven’t seen so much self satisfaction being passed around since my son’s boy scout troop got caught in a circle jerk.
I remember the good ole 10D focusing fiasco. If the 10D had focused properly I would have gotten that over the D100 but alas when I tried it out the rumors of it having a focusing problem were proven correct. As for current times:
“The DX format has shown real muscle with the introduction of the D2X, transcending the quality expectation for this tiny format. Pitched against the reigning DSLR champion, Canon 1 DS Mk.II, D2X comes out on top with better performance in nearly all aspects. This shows that Nikon's approach to digital SLR technology with focus on the "DX" format, stubborn and seemingly in conflict with the current perception of "full frame" as the only viable solution, in the end might just be the more prudent move after all.” -Bjorn Roslett
“Compare the resolving power of the D2X's high density 90 Lp/mm sensor with other DSLR sensors. The D2X clearly leads the pack by a significant margin.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
“Compare the resolving power of the D2X's high density 90 Lp/mm sensor with other DSLR sensors. The D2X clearly leads the pack by a significant margin.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Take your big lens and strap it to a high res P&S and it beats all of them hands down. Maybe someone will build that camera just for you, Harry.
Sounds like a job for Super Rutt
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
I got a new roll of gaffers tape today, so bring it on!
Great! I'll send you an 8MP P&S with an itty bitty senser. Harry will send you his longest tele. And then you can go to it. Harry, just let me know when your lens is in the mail to the good Dr. and I'll get the P&S right out to him. He should have it done in a day or so and good to go.
Great! I'll send you an 8MP P&S with an itty bitty senser. Harry will send you his longest tele. And then you can go to it. Harry, just let me know when your lens is in the mail to the good Dr. and I'll get the P&S right out to him. He should have it done in a day or so and good to go.
I know we're kidding around, but I do happen to have an assortment of c to f-mount adapters and a machine shop at my disposal.
I know we're kidding around, but I do happen to have an assortment of c to f-mount adapters and a machine shop at my disposal.
I knew I had the right guy. Think of the Make Magazine article we could write! I'm serious about contributing the point & shoot to this project. And, Harry, just think of it! It'll make your 500mm lens effectively 2,000mm. Just think of the wildlife shots you'll be alble to snag! Hummingbirds at 1 mile! You'll be famous.
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moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
Talk about hunting for scraps - I once saw a Chevette that had a nicer oil-cap than a Corvette but I still didn't want the Chevette
When you look hard enough one's bound to find something.
"Tis better keep your mouth shut and be thought of as an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
'Cept the original poster shoots Canon.
http://cusac.smugmug.com
True, although it was a very close thing. I shoot film (or perhaps more properly "shot") on a Nikon FG and really like Nikkor lenses; I was biased towards the D100 when I went shopping for my first DSLR. Thing was, the 300D was a much better buy at the time - images every bit as good, but half the cost. Had the D70 been out three months earlier I think I'd still be shooting Nikon.
A series of L lenses later and I'm effectively locked into Canon (my order for a 30D will be in right around the time B&H starts taking orders for it).
To be completely blunt about it once you get above the consumer DSLR line I don't see any significant difference between the two brands. I'd happily take either. At the consumer level I like the D50/70/70s better than the 300D and, especially, the 350D (whose speed and sensor I like, but ergonomics and battery I do not). And the lenses ... six of one, half a dozen of the other in my book. They both make great lenses with the occasional "what were they thinking?" model.
For my use the only significant difference between the brands is the superior Nikon lens caps. And you can buy them for your Canon lenses if you want, which I did.
jimf@frostbytes.com
Hehe I jest, but honestly I haven't been able to change from "shoot" to "shot" yet because I find that when I shoot film for some reason it drives me to compose better images and take better care of my settings. (probably because there's fewer settings to take care of!)
To me, film is a source of creativity that supplements my digital shooting, and it will continue to be even after I can upgrade to a DSLR that actually betters the quality of my Velvia.
On another note, sometimes I suspect that "the grass is greener"... When I shoot with a 20D and my D70 side-by-side, the results on the 20D look just fantastic on the LCD compared to my D70. But then when I view the CRW's in CS2, things look quite equal. To me the biggest caveat is exposure. Nikon had this wonderful RGB matrix meter and, in my opinion, they threw it out the window so they could favor "highlight preservation" ...Which some consider a blessing, but I absolutely hate it. The only redeeming factor is the D70's spot meter, which I enjoy using quite often. I dunno if this is everyone else's experience, but I've had my body checked twice by Nikon service and twice they "adjusted" the light meter, and still I get a histogram clumped up on the left half of the image, "preserving" highlights by putting sometimes a ridiculous 2-3 stops between the brightest detail and the "edge of burning".
Any way, other than that I see no real difference between the Nikon and Canon systems. Nikon has the joypad, Canon has the wheel. I prefer the joypad. Nikon has put the power button in the same spot on it's entire lineup as far as I know, and Canon can't seem to decide where to put it. (And the latest locations aren't anywhere NEAR where I could access them when picking the camera up one-handed.)
Considering that Canon also makes a 24-85mm lens which specs (especially the range and sharpness) I love on my Nikon, and since Tokina makes a 12-24mm DX almost as good as Nikon's, I would have no problem giving the Canon system a spin for my landscape / nature photography some day when I can afford it.
Brand loyalty is silly! (but oh-so-entertaining!)
-Matt-
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
Can we change the title of this thread to "Brand loyalty is silly"?
You know the rulez rutt. Requests like this go in another thread
But Matt's right. Well sort of. There's nothing wrong with Brand Loyalty. But
putting down others choices is.
Ian
I once saw someone describe how they handle turning their camera on and off. It went something like: "Wake up, turn camera on ... shoot ... turn camera off, go to bed."
Although maybe that's just a Canon thing!
Dont put purfume on a dead dog & tell me it smells nice.
http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/1134620/1/53163544/Large
But that's not really fair, now, is it, to Nikon? So, here's an ISO 1600, don't forget the crops...
http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/1134620/1/53205203/Large
And here is a little gallery of High-ISO Canon shots:
http://williams.smugmug.com/gallery/1141376
I have yet to see anything comparable. I'm all ears, if there are any? And don't give me that junk about Canonites having to shoot at 1600 and 3200. The point is, you don't want to or have to, but when you NEED it, it's sure nice to have - and dependable!
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
From a scientific study of recent purchases by dgrin members, Nikons don't need any high ISO pressure to fall to bits. They just do it without any help at all.
[Notice invisible smiley.]
How do the medium format backs do in the high ISO department? There really is no reason why the makers should want them to do well, since I think they are mostly used in studios. But they do have much larger pixels then the dSLRs we know and love, which should naturally lead to low noise.
Who saw Capote? Who was jealous of Avedon when he was shooting Perry Smith and Capote with his Haselblad. Man! Make that thing digital and I'll kill for it.
I dug through my Avedon books and didn't find any of Perry Smith. I think they are in a book coauthored with Truman Capote. I'll be trying to find that book.
Statistically significant sample
I remember the good ole 10D focusing fiasco. If the 10D had focused properly I would have gotten that over the D100 but alas when I tried it out the rumors of it having a focusing problem were proven correct.
As for current times:
“The DX format has shown real muscle with the introduction of the D2X, transcending the quality expectation for this tiny format. Pitched against the reigning DSLR champion, Canon 1 DS Mk.II, D2X comes out on top with better performance in nearly all aspects. This shows that Nikon's approach to digital SLR technology with focus on the "DX" format, stubborn and seemingly in conflict with the current perception of "full frame" as the only viable solution, in the end might just be the more prudent move after all.” -Bjorn Roslett
“Compare the resolving power of the D2X's high density 90 Lp/mm sensor with other DSLR sensors. The D2X clearly leads the pack by a significant margin.
- Nikon D2X - 90 Lp/mm
- Canon 20D & Rebel XT - 78 Lp/mm
- Olympus E1 - 74 Lp/mm
- Canon 1Ds Mk II - 69 Lp/mm
- Canon Digital Rebel - 68 Lp/mm
- Nikon D50, D70, D70s, D100 - 63 Lp/mm
- Kodak DCS 14n, DCS SLR/n, DCS SLR/c - 63 Lp/mm
- Nikon D1X - 84 Lp/mm horizontal, 42 Lp/mm vertical (63 Lp/mm averaged)
- Canon 5D, 1D Mk II, 1D Mk II N - 61 Lp/mm
- Kodak DCS 560, 660, 760 - 56 Lp/mm
- Nikon D2H & D2Hs - 52 Lp/mm
- Nikon D1 & D1H - 42 Lp/mm
- Kodak DCS 520, 620, 620x - 39 Lp/mm “
-LoneStarDigitalhttp://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Geeezzzz don't you Canonities have to go out and by some upgrade or something
Oh and by the by you Canonities are quite noisey :wow
You guys need em
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What's a circle jerk?
According to this chart, the Rebel XT is superior to the 1Ds MKII? Something's fishy.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
Take your big lens and strap it to a high res P&S and it beats all of them hands down. Maybe someone will build that camera just for you, Harry.
I have shot with all my Nikon bodies in the rain and the snow w/o a problem unlike some other shooters.
http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=21535
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Sounds like a job for Super Rutt
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Jeez, I already pled stupidity on this one and served my time.
http://cusac.smugmug.com
Unsportsmanlike seriousness.
Loss of taunt and 1 mandatory Whipping Post submission.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
I wish! I can barely clean a sensor without trauma. You gotta outsource this one to someone with better mechanical skills. The Doc, perhaps?
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
Great! I'll send you an 8MP P&S with an itty bitty senser. Harry will send you his longest tele. And then you can go to it. Harry, just let me know when your lens is in the mail to the good Dr. and I'll get the P&S right out to him. He should have it done in a day or so and good to go.
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
I knew I had the right guy. Think of the Make Magazine article we could write! I'm serious about contributing the point & shoot to this project. And, Harry, just think of it! It'll make your 500mm lens effectively 2,000mm. Just think of the wildlife shots you'll be alble to snag! Hummingbirds at 1 mile! You'll be famous.
Check it out. Bjorn drops his D200 in the snow and leaves it there for a long time for a battery test...while he sips coffee indoors!
http://www.naturfotograf.com/D200_rev01b.html#top_page