SanDisk is relatively small yet they have a fab. Do they fab everything?
Probably not but they probably research a lot of things.
Just like the division I work in does not produce chips for use by customers,
we do take a ride on the shuttle of each fab once and a while for a test
chip or three.
It's reasonable to assume that Nikon have at least a small fab. After all, they
are in the semiconductor business in the form of inspection equipment and
steppers.
Ian
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
It's reasonable to assume that Nikon have at least a small fab. After all, they
are in the semiconductor business in the form of inspection equipment and
steppers.
Ian
That makes sense, but it's not really what I meant. Do they fab their own sensors? That makes a real difference in strategic options.
Did you go in and read Nikon's report that Patchy posted? Does anyone actually have financial data to support these statements? I looked, and as far as my engineering mind can tell, Nikon looks to be a healthy company that is not going out of business anytime soon. I know this forum is dominated by Canon users, but let's try to keep some sense of perspective?
I think history has shown us plenty of company w/ strong financials that failed. I don't think this is a strike for or against either Nikon or Canon either.
I
Plus, they build semiconductor manufacturing equipment. (They are huge in that biz!)
Nikon does this,too. Canon has only recently overtaken them in steppers. That was Ian's point about why Nikon probably has at least a test fab. But that's an entirely different thing than building a state of the art high volume production line (every few years!) and pushing the envelope of what kinds of things can be done there. Canon is a large enough company to do this; Nikon just isn't, so they need a partner.
This is hearsay, since I read it in another forum. But I think it's what you're after, Rutt.
Canon has its own 'fab.' But this is a very recent development; innovations like CMOS sensors, etc. probably can't be attributed to this. However, future innovations may come of it.
Nikon buys its sensors from others (like Canon did until recently). The D200 chip came from Sony. Nikon is taking the path of using many vendors and technologies (the sensor in the D2H is LBCAST, the sensor in the D2X is CMOS, and the sensor in the D50/D70/D200 is CCD).
If there could ever be a consensus on the Internet, the king of the sensor manufacturers seems to be...not Nikon...not Canon...but Fuji.
Like I said, I read it on the Internet , so take it with the appropriate grain of salt as far as accuracy.
Thanks, Zigzag, that's close ot what I was looking for. I know that Fuji has been very innovative in sensor design; they just don't seem to have translated it into a great SLR body. There always seems to be some issue that offsets the usability. Like a Lamborghini or something. I don't know who else uses Fuji sensors. Probably not Kodak.
I'm pretty sure that Canon started using it's own fab with the first cmos sensor SLR. Was that 1D, D30, D60? I don't know. But even if they aren't using their own, they sure have pushed this particular area very hard. Maybe not as hard as Fuji, but much more than anyone else.
Sony is a big sensor producer and Nikon, Kodak, and others have used Sony sensors pretty recently. The huge video camera market really leverages this for Canon and especially Sony. I know nothing about the demands of video sensors, but I have to imagine it's even more entertaining than sensors for still cameras.
I don't know if anyone here reads Thom Hogan, but his 2006 predictions have some numbers that are pertinent to the market and company size sub-debate we were having here.
An interesting read for sure, and although Thom is Nikon biased, he knows his stuff when it comes to all the players.
Thom Hogan's 2006 predictions
Rutt, you'll definitely want to give this a read. Talks about the sensor suppliers and some fab stuff as well.
Erik, thanks for pointing this out. I missed it 'cause I was having too much fun baiting Harry. Now, I've decided that's too easy to qualify as a sport, so I read these predictions. I found it interesting. I think the Canon body predictions are probably pretty close. I'd guess one new low end body in the spring and a 1D series body in the fall at about 22MP and 7fps to make all the pros happy. I don't see second full frame camera, maybe a 5D price drop.
The Nikon/Sony sensor fab question is interesting, isn't it?
I don't know if anyone here reads Thom Hogan, but his 2006 predictions have some numbers that are pertinent to the market and company size sub-debate we were having here.
An interesting read for sure, and although Thom is Nikon biased, he knows his stuff when it comes to all the players.
Thom Hogan's 2006 predictions
Rutt, you'll definitely want to give this a read. Talks about the sensor suppliers and some fab stuff as well.
The Nikon/Sony sensor fab question is interesting, isn't it?
Yup. That's the part I figured you'd find most interesting. I too am curious to see how Sony positions themselves in this area, and the repercussions of it.
quote=rutt]. I missed it 'cause I was having too much fun baiting Harry. Now, I've decided that's too easy to qualify as a sport,
Now that's the difference between us. I never saw baiting another person as a sport.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Now that's the difference between us. I never saw baiting another person as a sport.
Really, you weren't having a little fun with me with all those posts about how bored you were with the analysis of Nikon and Canon's respective businesses? It sure worked, you know.
I didn't mean bait you, at least not at first. Then it got to be so hard not to.
Really, you weren't having a little fun with me with all those posts about how bored you were with the analysis of Nikon and Canon's respective businesses? It sure worked, you know
.
No they really did and do bore me. Now that is a personal opinion and I don't expect the rest of the world to share it.
I didn't mean bait you, at least not at first. Then it got to be so hard not to.
I never felt you were baiting me until you said you were.
I've got a great idea. Truce.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
but we don't need sweet caps, we have white lenses.
The only way you could think Canon's caps are nicer is if you'd never used Nikon's. Canon uses the same old design everyone has used for decades; Nikon's caps have significantly improved ergonomics. For instance, it's harder to accidentally stick your fingers on the lens when you're putting the Nikon cap back on.
Now that I think of it, maybe I should go buy a set of Nikon caps to stick on all my Canon lenses. Not only would they work better than the ones Canon gave me, it'd cause a few Canon owners to pop an artery. Those pictures would go great in this thread.
Now that I think of it, maybe I should go buy a set of Nikon caps to stick on all my Canon lenses.
It was such a good idea I went off to B&H and got a few. Bloody expensive things, those lens caps, but they sure are nice. And now the cheesy Canon caps are backups.
It was such a good idea I went off to B&H and got a few. Bloody expensive things, those lens caps, but they sure are nice. And now the cheesy Canon caps are backups.
Comments
You asked a very general question.
SanDisk is relatively small yet they have a fab. Do they fab everything?
Probably not but they probably research a lot of things.
Just like the division I work in does not produce chips for use by customers,
we do take a ride on the shuttle of each fab once and a while for a test
chip or three.
It's reasonable to assume that Nikon have at least a small fab. After all, they
are in the semiconductor business in the form of inspection equipment and
steppers.
Ian
First learn the rules, then learn how to break them.
That makes sense, but it's not really what I meant. Do they fab their own sensors? That makes a real difference in strategic options.
Dude, Nikon is totally fab.
Canon has its own 'fab.' But this is a very recent development; innovations like CMOS sensors, etc. probably can't be attributed to this. However, future innovations may come of it.
Nikon buys its sensors from others (like Canon did until recently). The D200 chip came from Sony. Nikon is taking the path of using many vendors and technologies (the sensor in the D2H is LBCAST, the sensor in the D2X is CMOS, and the sensor in the D50/D70/D200 is CCD).
If there could ever be a consensus on the Internet, the king of the sensor manufacturers seems to be...not Nikon...not Canon...but Fuji.
Like I said, I read it on the Internet
http://cusac.smugmug.com
I'm pretty sure that Canon started using it's own fab with the first cmos sensor SLR. Was that 1D, D30, D60? I don't know. But even if they aren't using their own, they sure have pushed this particular area very hard. Maybe not as hard as Fuji, but much more than anyone else.
Sony is a big sensor producer and Nikon, Kodak, and others have used Sony sensors pretty recently. The huge video camera market really leverages this for Canon and especially Sony. I know nothing about the demands of video sensors, but I have to imagine it's even more entertaining than sensors for still cameras.
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http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/1134620/2
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Wow. That makes no sense.
I don't see the causal correlation.
Chris
Detroit Wedding Photography Blog
Canon 10D | 20D | 5D
Is that from the irvine spectrum center?
Chris
Detroit Wedding Photography Blog
Canon 10D | 20D | 5D
An interesting read for sure, and although Thom is Nikon biased, he knows his stuff when it comes to all the players.
Thom Hogan's 2006 predictions
Rutt, you'll definitely want to give this a read. Talks about the sensor suppliers and some fab stuff as well.
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
Is it hitting below the belt to point this out?
http://dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=236193&postcount=26
Nah! It seems to be right in the spirit of this thread to do so!
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
Yep...that's pretty low and pathetic. I enjoy pokin' fun at Harry about his Nikonian habits...but that is just sad.....even for a Canon user..
Sorry to hear about your new camera, Harry. Hope you get the problem resolved soon and a perfectly working camera ...SOON!!
Cheers
"Osprey Whisperer"
OspreyWhisperer.com
:haha
:poke
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The Nikon/Sony sensor fab question is interesting, isn't it?
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
Now that's the difference between us. I never saw baiting another person as a sport.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Really, you weren't having a little fun with me with all those posts about how bored you were with the analysis of Nikon and Canon's respective businesses? It sure worked, you know.
I didn't mean bait you, at least not at first. Then it got to be so hard not to.
I've got a great idea. Truce.
No they really did and do bore me. Now that is a personal opinion and I don't expect the rest of the world to share it.
I never felt you were baiting me until you said you were.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Nikon's lens caps are way nicer than Canon's.
jimf@frostbytes.com
Absolutely.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
but we don't need sweet caps, we have white lenses.
smugmug: www.StandOutphoto.smugmug.com
Say that 10 times fast.
The only way you could think Canon's caps are nicer is if you'd never used Nikon's. Canon uses the same old design everyone has used for decades; Nikon's caps have significantly improved ergonomics. For instance, it's harder to accidentally stick your fingers on the lens when you're putting the Nikon cap back on.
Now that I think of it, maybe I should go buy a set of Nikon caps to stick on all my Canon lenses. Not only would they work better than the ones Canon gave me, it'd cause a few Canon owners to pop an artery. Those pictures would go great in this thread.
jimf@frostbytes.com
It was such a good idea I went off to B&H and got a few. Bloody expensive things, those lens caps, but they sure are nice. And now the cheesy Canon caps are backups.
jimf@frostbytes.com
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
That's because you have dainty fingers
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