All I can say is hang in there and be patient ... very patient. It takes a tremendous amount of work and dedication to make progress in photography, it just simply won't happen overnight. I am also not one of those people who thinks that gears don't matter ... they do, believe me, they do. If they didn't, we would all be shooting with P&S cameras. However, this does not mean that you cannot create great images with less expensive equipment, you can, but you will be limited. Shooting with High ISO, attractive Bokeh, tack sharp images are only a few things that come to mind. If you decide to get serious in photography, you will eventually need to start investing in some nice glasses, lighting, and cameras. The results WILL be different, however won't guarantee a thing because the photographer plays a big role in creating a great image too. For now, concentrate on understanding the relationship between the shutter speed, aperture and ISO, then try to figure out what makes a composition more interesting, what kind of lighting makes images more attractive (even just available lighting), etc. Take shots of the same scene under midday's harsh lighting, an hour before sunset, right after sunrise, etc and see how your images change. Once you got those things down, then you may want to start investing in more advanced lenses/cameras in order to take your photography to a higher level. Again, be patient. Believe me, we all get frustrated and we all want to do better. Regardless of whether you have not won a contest or have won bunch of them, there are times you just bang your head against the wall and get frustrated to no end.
Hi Jenn,
All I can say is hang in there and be patient ... very patient. It takes a tremendous amount of work and dedication to make progress in photography, it just simply won't happen overnight.
Again, be patient. Believe me, we all get frustrated and we all want to do better. Regardless of whether you have not won a contest or have won bunch of them, there are times you just bang your head against the wall and get frustrated to no end.
Wish you the best of luck!
nightpixels .. you don't seem to be bothered by me expressing my disappointment. I appreciate that.
What do you think of the images in this album: http://snipurl.com/zhuy9 ? I took those recently when I went to Las Vegas for my daughters wedding. I thought they turned out pretty good because the subject matter was amazing. I just really don't have anything all that amazing to photograph where I live.
I, for one, would not want anyone's pity vote! I want to be excited when I win on the merits of my photo.
I would vote for someone if their photo was good (even if it wasn't the best one) and they had never won before yet because it would mean alot to them and encourage them. I think the winning photo isn't necessarily about perfection, but more about the heart behind it.
We have every level of photography here on dgrin. You can learn something from all of them if you so choose. From what I can see you've been getting some awesome helpful tips.
You've only been competing a short while--waaaaaay too early to get discouraged. You are going to have to grow some thick skin if you plan on hanging around for a while.
I do think I've gotten some good advice along the way, but some of it is non-specific, confusing, or contradictory which ends up frustrating me when I try to follow that advice.
I'm afraid I'm not all that good at having a thick skin... what you see is what you get ... more or less. I don't hide how I feel very well.. never have been good at that... but at least it will be obvious where I'm at...
I would vote for someone if their photo was good (even if it wasn't the best one) and they had never won before yet because it would mean alot to them and encourage them. I think the winning photo isn't necessarily about perfection, but more about the heart behind it.
Maybe it's just me, but so many of your comments seem to be written to invoke reaction...
Anyway you've got to be kidding me... where is your integrity?
You should vote where you know credit is due, yes the photographer is part of the make up behind the photograph and their personality plays a part but don't rob someone of a vote simply because you feel sorry for someone else or vote because they are considered your friend.
Sad as it is, I know my personality has shielded votes away from my entries but that's ok with me... I do the challenges for the challenge I've not made "the cut" more times than you can shake a stick at.... but I do DSS simply to enjoy doing it and maybe you should adjust why you do it too!
You should vote where you know credit is due, yes the photographer is part of the make up behind the photograph and their personality plays a part but don't rob someone of a vote simply because you feel sorry for someone else or vote because they are considered your friend.
I do vote for who I believe credit is due. People who work just as hard as everyone else and never win deserve the credit, too, and it encourages them...
Sad as it is, I know my personality has shielded votes away from my entries but that's ok with me... I do the challenges for the challenge I've not made "the cut" more times than you can shake a stick at.... but I do DSS simply to enjoy doing it and maybe you should adjust why you do it too!
There's nothing wrong with your personality, imo. You just say what's on your mind. Right?
A question was asked of me in a PM. Just a reminder that if you have a question to ask, post it either here in the general discussion or if it relates to the current round you can ask your question in it's thread. The reason for this is that if I answer your question in a PM it only helps you, not everyone else in the community. For my specific stance on PM's see Number 3 in this post.
Anyway back to the Question that was asked:
Hi Sean.
I have a rules question for you. Can I use other images I find (legally) as layer masks in photoshop to add to an image that I take for the challenges?
My answer:
Our previous moderator did allow brushes (which are small images) to be used but I always felt that was using someone else's work. I feel the same about legally acquired backgrounds and other material, if it isn't your own work and you did not photograph it then, no you can not use it.
Since any layer technically should be taken during the same time frame it would normally disqualify the image anyway.
Thanks for asking.
I hope that helps some of you that may be wondering.
I agree with your answer above in post 790 Sean.. I am not know for using layers so much anyway, but I've always felt it a bit wrong, especially in here, to use other's work as part of something being created.
I thought I'd pull this thread forward from page 3 so that I could pull forward a conversation that has long since died, started by our very own Andy, when Andy was, well, a very young noob like the rest of us still are. :bs
This thread was fundamental to the old Whipping Post culture, which was the critique section prior to our current "Refinery."
I think this applies very well to the DSS, as when you put an image in any contest, you are submitting your work to the very-most raw of critique, unexplained judging and blind poles. Andy's comments may be of help to us as we try to learn by critiquing, but pay particular attention to post 2 in this thread, which can apply to the subjectivity by the judges...
That's where it was! I was looking for this a while back. I knew I had read the information long ago but could not find it to refer back to. I wasn't even sure if
I had read it here or somewhere else.
I'm just now reading all of this. Jenn, I'm pretty new here too. I would not want to win if I didn't deserve it. I don't care if it takes me five years, I don't want a win simply because I've never won before. I want to be judged on my abilities and talent. If those don't exist, then I don't deserve to win. I consider the challenges a challenge to myself more than a competition against others. I want to see what I can do and push myself to produce my best work. I learn in the process.
I've never gone to photography school. My sister did. I'm more involved in it than she is, and our work is comparable. If you want to get good, you practice and you put time into it. If you are passionate enough, you will get good at it and when you make the finals or win, you will feel a sense of accomplishment. I don't see how you can feel that accomplishment if people are chosen just because they have never won. You can't feel proud of yourself in that circumstance, so what's the point? That wouldn't be encouragement to me at all because it's not choosing the work submitted, it's choosing the person who submitted it. How would you ever know if you really produced a winner or if you just got pity votes? How would that be coordinated - a special thread to choose the winner ahead of time and everyone agrees on the current underdog?
People in the Olympics don't get a gold medal because they never won before; they get the gold medal because they worked hard for it and performed the best. That's life.
I hope you keep trying. I'd like to see where you are in 6 months or a year.
I'm just now reading all of this. Jenn, I'm pretty new here too. I would not want to win if I didn't deserve it. I don't care if it takes me five years, I don't want a win simply because I've never won before. I want to be judged on my abilities and talent. If those don't exist, then I don't deserve to win. I consider the challenges a challenge to myself more than a competition against others. I want to see what I can do and push myself to produce my best work. I learn in the process.
I understand what you're saying, but competing against professionals may mean both of us are never good enough to win because the pro's will always be better at it. While competing against pros can make a person work harder, the pros will always be just that tad bit better for whatever reason.
I've never gone to photography school. My sister did. I'm more involved in it than she is, and our work is comparable. If you want to get good, you practice and you put time into it. If you are passionate enough, you will get good at it and when you make the finals or win, you will feel a sense of accomplishment. I don't see how you can feel that accomplishment if people are chosen just because they have never won. You can't feel proud of yourself in that circumstance, so what's the point? That wouldn't be encouragement to me at all because it's not choosing the work submitted, it's choosing the person who submitted it. How would you ever know if you really produced a winner or if you just got pity votes? How would that be coordinated - a special thread to choose the winner ahead of time and everyone agrees on the current underdog?
How are you going to know why people really vote for their choices? If 10 people are in the finals, and I like 3 the best, how do I decide who to tick that vote for? I think I'll choose the one who has never won before. It only seems fair to me to do it that way. I only have one vote, so it's not like my vote decides who wins or not.
People in the Olympics don't get a gold medal because they never won before; they get the gold medal because they worked hard for it and performed the best. That's life.
But, this isn't the Olympics and the judging is based on personal taste. There isn't a finish line where the first one that crosses wins.
I hope you keep trying. I'd like to see where you are in 6 months or a year.
I took some light painting images today, but I don't expect to win, get into the finals or be anyones favorite because I know there are professionals who have better equipment and are more experienced who will win. Don't get me wrong .. I understand what you're saying.. I just think the cards are stacked in favor of those who do this all the time. I'm just being realistic about it.
I took some light painting images today, but I don't expect to win, get into the finals or be anyones favorite because I know there are professionals who have better equipment and are more experienced who will win. Don't get me wrong .. I understand what you're saying.. I just think the cards are stacked in favor of those who do this all the time. I'm just being realistic about it. __________________ Jenn (from Oklahoma)
Were are all those pros you talk about ?? I have been on this site for years ,my shots have gotten better ,I have won once . You may want to get the chip off of your shoulder it does make it easier to get a good shot. A story-- a pro a real pro $$$ in equipment went to a wedding he was a guest ,took a point and shoot walked by a table looked then looked agian took a shot or 2 and won a nation contest It was not his name that did it.It was his art. To some art is easy ,to the rest of us ,well it ain't .So try or take up golf
You may want to get the chip off of your shoulder it does make it easier to get a good shot.
I wouldn't say I have a 'chip' on my shoulder at all. I just say what's really on my mind. There's no sense in me pretending I'm happy when I'm disappointed, or substituting any other white lie just so I can present some facade to the world. People will know when I'm happy because they will see different emotions expressed.
I thought I'd pull this thread forward from page 3 so that I could pull forward a conversation that has long since died, started by our very own Andy, when Andy was, well, a very young noob like the rest of us still are. :bs
This thread was fundamental to the old Whipping Post culture, which was the critique section prior to our current "Refinery."
I think this applies very well to the DSS, as when you put an image in any contest, you are submitting your work to the very-most raw of critique, unexplained judging and blind poles. Andy's comments may be of help to us as we try to learn by critiquing, but pay particular attention to post 2 in this thread, which can apply to the subjectivity by the judges...
Now back to my Toasted Head. And I might add that I have waited oh so long for the right opportunity to use that particular smiley up there..
Thanks, Mark! Great link. I have tried to be specific in my critiques, because I think that is helpful. But I am not always successful and I need to work harder at it.
I understand what you're saying, but competing against professionals may mean both of us are never good enough to win because the pro's will always be better at it. While competing against pros can make a person work harder, the pros will always be just that tad bit better for whatever reason.
Jenn, I am not a professional and have won my first challenge after "failing" for more than a year. I put failing in quotes, because each round has taught me something and the effort has not been wasted. Since May of last year, I have not missed a round, in spite of working full time, Christmas, vacations, etc. One of the most important things I learned was not to get attached to the results. The pleasure of stretching my abilities and creativity has become its own reward.
I have had photos make it to the finals and not get a single vote. At times, I have been discouraged. Why should I expect to produce a photo that is better than those who have been working at it longer, whether they are professional or amateur? And yet, I did. I worked an idea, an inspiration, using my limited equipment, knowing its limitations and mine, and was able to produce an image that spoke to a few people.
And let's talk equipment. My camera is a super zoom point and shoot. It is one step up from the Kodak I started with. I started looking for a new camera prior to a trip to Costa Rica. I knew I would be frustrated with a mere 3x zoom and unable to get close enough to the wildlife. I decided I also wanted more control and shorter shutter lag. In my price range, the Panasonic FZ28 had most of the features I wanted - full manual control, raw and jpeg format, a good lens, extended zoom. It doesn't have a hot shoe. I still don't have a real tripod, although I do have a gorilla pod. No lamps or fancy flashes. When I can afford the next step up in equipment, I will be ready to make the most of it. And this camera will have taught me all that its limited capacity is capable of.
Here is my setup for the snail mail shot. Anyone could have done this. What it took to get it was generating an interesting idea and recognizing the right circumstances to execute it. On my first try, the mailbox was in shadow and the white balance was off. So I converted it to B&W, but it didn't really help much. So I tried again when I saw the sun shining into it - more than fifty times.
I have enjoyed sharing the process of getting the idea, learning about snails, getting the shot with several friends. I would have enjoyed the process even if I had not won.
What makes photography interesting to me is that it is a wide field. Someone who has mastered the techniques of portrait photography may be a rank amateur at landscapes. If the professional portrait photographer comes to the challenges and simply produces portraits, then he is losing out.
Study the winners. Most of them have something to say. They are more than just pretty. Study the also rans. Where did they fall short? Take one round and comment on every entry. Comment on most of the threads asking for critique. Be specific.
Thank everyone who comments - sincerely. Refrain from telling them why they are wrong. They may be reluctant to comment the next time and you will lose the opportunity for feedback. When I was young, I was completely open and tactless. My mother told me that I should always tell the truth, but I have a right to remain silent.
I later learned to tell the truth in a way that would be palatable to the listener. (Do I look fat in this dress? It accentuates your figure. ) Can you be happy for the winner while being disappointed for or in yourself?
After a while, you will find that you begin to make critiques of your own work and it will improve. Next year, you will find yourself passing along the same advice to another noob.
I wouldn't say I have a 'chip' on my shoulder at all.
I think you are missing something here. This is true and honest feedback. Some people perceive that you have a chip on your shoulder. If this is not your intent and if this bothers you, then you may want to change your responses.
Familiar Image
Sorry. this may not be the forum but wasn't sure where to post this.
Over the past week I've seen this image a couple of times. Once on comedy central and now as the new Weezer CD cover.
I've seen this pic before and can't place where. I thought it was from someones Smugmug gallery, possible a challenge entry...but cannot remember. I look at alot of pix.
I wanted to post it in the event it was poached and getting some unauthorized use.
when you put an image in any contest, you are submitting your work to the very-most raw of critique, unexplained judging and blind poles.
I've yet to have photos critiqued by blind Poles... although that would be quite a *sight*
I know I always try to be respectful and constructive when leaving criticism... I'm kind of on-again off-again when it comes to the challenges, but I love watching and commenting when I can't find the time to participate.
Jenn, I've entered 4, 5(?) challenges, and haven't made it to the voting round yet... you're already ahead of me there.
I was wondering if there could be separate challenges for amateurs? Competing against professional photographers is getting very discouraging for me.
This comes up a lot.
I suspect that most people who compete in these challenges are not making a living from their photography.
Every once in a while there is a request for a P&S challenge, a cell phone camera challenge, etc. There have been contests for straight out of the camera shots.
If it makes you feel better, I have semi-pro equipment, including one of the best lenses Pentax ever made, and every once in a while get the feeling that I can make a good picture. Then I enter one of these contests and see how much room I have to grow.
MarkR is right this subject has come up many times in the past. I too agree that for the most part most of the participants in the DSS challenges are not making a living from photography but do it because they passionately love it. the term professional is usually associated with someone who is making at least 50% of their income from it.
Regardless of how we classify someone it really is more up to each individual to decide for themselves where they fit into the perceived level of skill and experience. It would be completely impossible for us to police an "amateur" only challenge. Who gets to decide if your amateur enough to be allowed to enter?
The Mini challenges are a much more relaxed environment, allowing you to enter 3 images and dig through your archives to find the best ones too. Try entering some mini challenges for awhile maybe?
We have heard time and time again from you Jenn that you get discouraged; we get that. My recommendation is to keep developing your skills as a photographer and just play for the sheer fun of it. I am certainly not telling you that it is wrong to get discouraged, by all means it is a human trait that we experience it. What I am saying is you have been very clear now and in the past that you get that way. I think it is time to move past it and learn to have fun with photography instead of focusing on all of the negative aspects of it.
I have enjoyed sharing the process of getting the idea, learning about snails, getting the shot with several friends. I would have enjoyed the process even if I had not won.
I enjoy taking the photos and editing them... I just don't enjoy feeling rejected... or that I'm not 'good enough'.... it's confusing to get mixed comments.. some like it.. some don't.. People tell me to take a photo and do what I like ... others don't like it. I don't see what others see. Who do I please? Myself? When I do that.. the critiques are even more confusing. The critiques aren't consistent enough for me to know how to improve, but they're confusing enough to just frustrate me... if that makes sense. I'm a 'tell me what you want, how to get there, and I'll do that' kind of a learner. Right now I'm not really learning anything. I'm spending all my time guessing.
Study the winners. Most of them have something to say. They are more than just pretty. Study the also rans. Where did they fall short? Take one round and comment on every entry. Comment on most of the threads asking for critique. Be specific.
Gosh .. I have no idea what the right things to say are or even the right questions. I just know I have no idea how to get from point A to point B. When I post my image for suggestions... the suggestions I get are conflicting..do this to the bg... no.. do that to the bg... I like the exposure.. I don't like the exposure...... How do I know who is right?
Thank everyone who comments - sincerely. Refrain from telling them why they are wrong. They may be reluctant to comment the next time and you will lose the opportunity for feedback. When I was young, I was completely open and tactless. My mother told me that I should always tell the truth, but I have a right to remain silent.
I really don't mind feedback that's helps me improve or learn something to improve what I'm doing. Teach me how to do better kind of stuff.... I'm willing to learn.
After a while, you will find that you begin to make critiques of your own work and it will improve. Next year, you will find yourself passing along the same advice to another noob.
You can do this!
You may be in a minority who believes I can do this..
I think you are missing something here. This is true and honest feedback. Some people perceive that you have a chip on your shoulder. If this is not your intent and if this bothers you, then you may want to change your responses.
No chip ... If I'm disappointed or happy... it's what I tend to express. It's not meant to upset anyone .. it's just honest emotions from me. I don't know any other way to be.
If it makes you feel better, I have semi-pro equipment, including one of the best lenses Pentax ever made, and every once in a while get the feeling that I can make a good picture. Then I enter one of these contests and see how much room I have to grow.
1. Do this for yourself and don't worry about pleasing others. If you do please others in the interim, that's just a bonus. While I am very happy to have made the finals this time (lace), I am more happy to give my model (son's girlfriend) a photo that she will hopefully treasure for years. I did have some prints made for her.
2. Do this for fun. If you're not having fun with it or if it becomes stressful, maybe try what Sean suggested and enter the mini's for a while.
3. Do this to learn. It can take a very long time to perfect techniques. I'm an amateur and have been disappointed many times with the way photos have turned out when someone was actually depending on me. I lack confidence too, but when something does turn out great, it gives me a boost. You just keep trying.
4. Yes, you will get differing opinions. That's because it is subjective and we all think differently. Some people are also trying to boost your confidence by telling you that you did better. Everyone is cheering you on. Take each of the suggestions and give them a try, then submit what you think is best. You have to put the time into it. I'm sure you have, but step it up if you need to.
5. There can only be one winner. I'd love that someday, but I don't expect it. If it happens, whoopee! Just a bonus in life, not a must-have. Having the goal is sometimes more fun than achieving the goal. Once you've done it, then what?
6. Try to make it a challenge for yourself and not a challenge against everyone else. That's the fun part.
7. Disappointment is normal - been there. But the best part is that the next challenge is already beginning. Don't look back - look ahead.
Comments
All I can say is hang in there and be patient ... very patient. It takes a tremendous amount of work and dedication to make progress in photography, it just simply won't happen overnight. I am also not one of those people who thinks that gears don't matter ... they do, believe me, they do. If they didn't, we would all be shooting with P&S cameras. However, this does not mean that you cannot create great images with less expensive equipment, you can, but you will be limited. Shooting with High ISO, attractive Bokeh, tack sharp images are only a few things that come to mind. If you decide to get serious in photography, you will eventually need to start investing in some nice glasses, lighting, and cameras. The results WILL be different, however won't guarantee a thing because the photographer plays a big role in creating a great image too. For now, concentrate on understanding the relationship between the shutter speed, aperture and ISO, then try to figure out what makes a composition more interesting, what kind of lighting makes images more attractive (even just available lighting), etc. Take shots of the same scene under midday's harsh lighting, an hour before sunset, right after sunrise, etc and see how your images change. Once you got those things down, then you may want to start investing in more advanced lenses/cameras in order to take your photography to a higher level. Again, be patient. Believe me, we all get frustrated and we all want to do better. Regardless of whether you have not won a contest or have won bunch of them, there are times you just bang your head against the wall and get frustrated to no end.
Wish you the best of luck!
Los Angeles dance photographer
Website: http://www.allenparseghian.com
What do you think of the images in this album: http://snipurl.com/zhuy9 ? I took those recently when I went to Las Vegas for my daughters wedding. I thought they turned out pretty good because the subject matter was amazing. I just really don't have anything all that amazing to photograph where I live.
Panasonic Lumix 10x DMC-TZ3 :photo
Leica Mega O.I.S./28mm WIDE :smile6
I would vote for someone if their photo was good (even if it wasn't the best one) and they had never won before yet because it would mean alot to them and encourage them. I think the winning photo isn't necessarily about perfection, but more about the heart behind it.
Panasonic Lumix 10x DMC-TZ3 :photo
Leica Mega O.I.S./28mm WIDE :smile6
I do think I've gotten some good advice along the way, but some of it is non-specific, confusing, or contradictory which ends up frustrating me when I try to follow that advice.
I'm afraid I'm not all that good at having a thick skin... what you see is what you get ... more or less. I don't hide how I feel very well.. never have been good at that... but at least it will be obvious where I'm at...
Panasonic Lumix 10x DMC-TZ3 :photo
Leica Mega O.I.S./28mm WIDE :smile6
Anyway you've got to be kidding me... where is your integrity?
You should vote where you know credit is due, yes the photographer is part of the make up behind the photograph and their personality plays a part but don't rob someone of a vote simply because you feel sorry for someone else or vote because they are considered your friend.
Sad as it is, I know my personality has shielded votes away from my entries but that's ok with me... I do the challenges for the challenge I've not made "the cut" more times than you can shake a stick at.... but I do DSS simply to enjoy doing it and maybe you should adjust why you do it too!
I do vote for who I believe credit is due. People who work just as hard as everyone else and never win deserve the credit, too, and it encourages them...
There's nothing wrong with your personality, imo. You just say what's on your mind. Right?
Panasonic Lumix 10x DMC-TZ3 :photo
Leica Mega O.I.S./28mm WIDE :smile6
DSS Q&A
A question was asked of me in a PM. Just a reminder that if you have a question to ask, post it either here in the general discussion or if it relates to the current round you can ask your question in it's thread. The reason for this is that if I answer your question in a PM it only helps you, not everyone else in the community. For my specific stance on PM's see Number 3 in this post.
Anyway back to the Question that was asked:
My answer:
I hope that helps some of you that may be wondering.
www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..
This thread was fundamental to the old Whipping Post culture, which was the critique section prior to our current "Refinery."
I think this applies very well to the DSS, as when you put an image in any contest, you are submitting your work to the very-most raw of critique, unexplained judging and blind poles. Andy's comments may be of help to us as we try to learn by critiquing, but pay particular attention to post 2 in this thread, which can apply to the subjectivity by the judges...
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=13427
Now back to my Toasted Head. And I might add that I have waited oh so long for the right opportunity to use that particular smiley up there..
www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..
Thanks for the link to the oh so relevant information.
I had read it here or somewhere else.
Thanks!!
My SmugMug
I've never gone to photography school. My sister did. I'm more involved in it than she is, and our work is comparable. If you want to get good, you practice and you put time into it. If you are passionate enough, you will get good at it and when you make the finals or win, you will feel a sense of accomplishment. I don't see how you can feel that accomplishment if people are chosen just because they have never won. You can't feel proud of yourself in that circumstance, so what's the point? That wouldn't be encouragement to me at all because it's not choosing the work submitted, it's choosing the person who submitted it. How would you ever know if you really produced a winner or if you just got pity votes? How would that be coordinated - a special thread to choose the winner ahead of time and everyone agrees on the current underdog?
People in the Olympics don't get a gold medal because they never won before; they get the gold medal because they worked hard for it and performed the best. That's life.
I hope you keep trying. I'd like to see where you are in 6 months or a year.
If I could tell the story in words, I wouldn't need to lug around a camera. ~Lewis Hine
http://sandizphotos-seascapes.smugmug.com/
How are you going to know why people really vote for their choices? If 10 people are in the finals, and I like 3 the best, how do I decide who to tick that vote for? I think I'll choose the one who has never won before. It only seems fair to me to do it that way. I only have one vote, so it's not like my vote decides who wins or not.
But, this isn't the Olympics and the judging is based on personal taste. There isn't a finish line where the first one that crosses wins. I took some light painting images today, but I don't expect to win, get into the finals or be anyones favorite because I know there are professionals who have better equipment and are more experienced who will win. Don't get me wrong .. I understand what you're saying.. I just think the cards are stacked in favor of those who do this all the time. I'm just being realistic about it.
Panasonic Lumix 10x DMC-TZ3 :photo
Leica Mega O.I.S./28mm WIDE :smile6
__________________
Jenn (from Oklahoma)
Were are all those pros you talk about ?? I have been on this site for years ,my shots have gotten better ,I have won once . You may want to get the chip off of your shoulder it does make it easier to get a good shot.
A story-- a pro a real pro $$$ in equipment went to a wedding he was a guest ,took a point and shoot
To some art is easy ,to the rest of us ,well it ain't .So try or take up golf
“PHOTOGRAPHY IS THE ‘JAZZ’ FOR THE EYES…”
http://jwear.smugmug.com/
I wouldn't say I have a 'chip' on my shoulder at all. I just say what's really on my mind.
Panasonic Lumix 10x DMC-TZ3 :photo
Leica Mega O.I.S./28mm WIDE :smile6
Thanks, Mark! Great link. I have tried to be specific in my critiques, because I think that is helpful. But I am not always successful and I need to work harder at it.
Jenn, I am not a professional and have won my first challenge after "failing" for more than a year. I put failing in quotes, because each round has taught me something and the effort has not been wasted. Since May of last year, I have not missed a round, in spite of working full time, Christmas, vacations, etc. One of the most important things I learned was not to get attached to the results. The pleasure of stretching my abilities and creativity has become its own reward.
I have had photos make it to the finals and not get a single vote. At times, I have been discouraged. Why should I expect to produce a photo that is better than those who have been working at it longer, whether they are professional or amateur? And yet, I did. I worked an idea, an inspiration, using my limited equipment, knowing its limitations and mine, and was able to produce an image that spoke to a few people.
And let's talk equipment. My camera is a super zoom point and shoot. It is one step up from the Kodak I started with. I started looking for a new camera prior to a trip to Costa Rica. I knew I would be frustrated with a mere 3x zoom and unable to get close enough to the wildlife. I decided I also wanted more control and shorter shutter lag. In my price range, the Panasonic FZ28 had most of the features I wanted - full manual control, raw and jpeg format, a good lens, extended zoom. It doesn't have a hot shoe. I still don't have a real tripod, although I do have a gorilla pod. No lamps or fancy flashes. When I can afford the next step up in equipment, I will be ready to make the most of it. And this camera will have taught me all that its limited capacity is capable of.
Here is my setup for the snail mail shot. Anyone could have done this. What it took to get it was generating an interesting idea and recognizing the right circumstances to execute it. On my first try, the mailbox was in shadow and the white balance was off. So I converted it to B&W, but it didn't really help much. So I tried again when I saw the sun shining into it - more than fifty times.
I have enjoyed sharing the process of getting the idea, learning about snails, getting the shot with several friends. I would have enjoyed the process even if I had not won.
What makes photography interesting to me is that it is a wide field. Someone who has mastered the techniques of portrait photography may be a rank amateur at landscapes. If the professional portrait photographer comes to the challenges and simply produces portraits, then he is losing out.
Study the winners. Most of them have something to say. They are more than just pretty. Study the also rans. Where did they fall short? Take one round and comment on every entry. Comment on most of the threads asking for critique. Be specific.
Thank everyone who comments - sincerely. Refrain from telling them why they are wrong. They may be reluctant to comment the next time and you will lose the opportunity for feedback. When I was young, I was completely open and tactless. My mother told me that I should always tell the truth, but I have a right to remain silent.
I later learned to tell the truth in a way that would be palatable to the listener. (Do I look fat in this dress? It accentuates your figure.
After a while, you will find that you begin to make critiques of your own work and it will improve. Next year, you will find yourself passing along the same advice to another noob.
You can do this!
I think you are missing something here. This is true and honest feedback. Some people perceive that you have a chip on your shoulder. If this is not your intent and if this bothers you, then you may want to change your responses.
Sorry. this may not be the forum but wasn't sure where to post this.
Over the past week I've seen this image a couple of times. Once on comedy central and now as the new Weezer CD cover.
I've seen this pic before and can't place where. I thought it was from someones Smugmug gallery, possible a challenge entry...but cannot remember. I look at alot of pix.
I wanted to post it in the event it was poached and getting some unauthorized use.
P
http://www.weezer.com/raditude/
ackdoc.com
If I could tell the story in words, I wouldn't need to lug around a camera. ~Lewis Hine
http://sandizphotos-seascapes.smugmug.com/
I know I always try to be respectful and constructive when leaving criticism... I'm kind of on-again off-again when it comes to the challenges, but I love watching and commenting when I can't find the time to participate.
Jenn, I've entered 4, 5(?) challenges, and haven't made it to the voting round yet... you're already ahead of me there.
Jake
Panasonic Lumix 10x DMC-TZ3 :photo
Leica Mega O.I.S./28mm WIDE :smile6
This comes up a lot.
I suspect that most people who compete in these challenges are not making a living from their photography.
Every once in a while there is a request for a P&S challenge, a cell phone camera challenge, etc. There have been contests for straight out of the camera shots.
If it makes you feel better, I have semi-pro equipment, including one of the best lenses Pentax ever made, and every once in a while get the feeling that I can make a good picture. Then I enter one of these contests and see how much room I have to grow.
MarkR is right this subject has come up many times in the past. I too agree that for the most part most of the participants in the DSS challenges are not making a living from photography but do it because they passionately love it. the term professional is usually associated with someone who is making at least 50% of their income from it.
Regardless of how we classify someone it really is more up to each individual to decide for themselves where they fit into the perceived level of skill and experience. It would be completely impossible for us to police an "amateur" only challenge. Who gets to decide if your amateur enough to be allowed to enter?
The Mini challenges are a much more relaxed environment, allowing you to enter 3 images and dig through your archives to find the best ones too. Try entering some mini challenges for awhile maybe?
We have heard time and time again from you Jenn that you get discouraged; we get that. My recommendation is to keep developing your skills as a photographer and just play for the sheer fun of it. I am certainly not telling you that it is wrong to get discouraged, by all means it is a human trait that we experience it. What I am saying is you have been very clear now and in the past that you get that way. I think it is time to move past it and learn to have fun with photography instead of focusing on all of the negative aspects of it.
congrats...
It's a normal response, imo.
I think I have a good camera that does alot... I'm pretty much on my own reading the manual trying to figure out how to use the different settings.
Likewise, I think I took that many shots of my lace entry.
I enjoy taking the photos and editing them... I just don't enjoy feeling rejected... or that I'm not 'good enough'.... it's confusing to get mixed comments.. some like it.. some don't.. People tell me to take a photo and do what I like ... others don't like it. I don't see what others see. Who do I please? Myself? When I do that.. the critiques are even more confusing.
I really don't mind feedback that's helps me improve or learn something to improve what I'm doing. Teach me how to do better kind of stuff.... I'm willing to learn.
Truthfully... sometimes yes... sometimes no... I think that's normal.
You may be in a minority who believes I can do this..
Panasonic Lumix 10x DMC-TZ3 :photo
Leica Mega O.I.S./28mm WIDE :smile6
No chip ... If I'm disappointed or happy... it's what I tend to express. It's not meant to upset anyone .. it's just honest emotions from me. I don't know any other way to be.
Panasonic Lumix 10x DMC-TZ3 :photo
Leica Mega O.I.S./28mm WIDE :smile6
Should I say 'keep trying'?
Panasonic Lumix 10x DMC-TZ3 :photo
Leica Mega O.I.S./28mm WIDE :smile6
Thanks for listening, Mark.
Then I'm not the only one!
How do you know how to get where you need to be?
Panasonic Lumix 10x DMC-TZ3 :photo
Leica Mega O.I.S./28mm WIDE :smile6
1. Do this for yourself and don't worry about pleasing others. If you do please others in the interim, that's just a bonus. While I am very happy to have made the finals this time (lace), I am more happy to give my model (son's girlfriend) a photo that she will hopefully treasure for years. I did have some prints made for her.
2. Do this for fun. If you're not having fun with it or if it becomes stressful, maybe try what Sean suggested and enter the mini's for a while.
3. Do this to learn. It can take a very long time to perfect techniques. I'm an amateur and have been disappointed many times with the way photos have turned out when someone was actually depending on me. I lack confidence too, but when something does turn out great, it gives me a boost. You just keep trying.
4. Yes, you will get differing opinions. That's because it is subjective and we all think differently. Some people are also trying to boost your confidence by telling you that you did better. Everyone is cheering you on. Take each of the suggestions and give them a try, then submit what you think is best. You have to put the time into it. I'm sure you have, but step it up if you need to.
5. There can only be one winner. I'd love that someday, but I don't expect it. If it happens, whoopee! Just a bonus in life, not a must-have. Having the goal is sometimes more fun than achieving the goal. Once you've done it, then what?
6. Try to make it a challenge for yourself and not a challenge against everyone else. That's the fun part.
7. Disappointment is normal - been there. But the best part is that the next challenge is already beginning. Don't look back - look ahead.
If I could tell the story in words, I wouldn't need to lug around a camera. ~Lewis Hine
http://sandizphotos-seascapes.smugmug.com/