Why would that ring hollow? That was 12 months ago, and Bay is done and on the site. We've shown you guys updates and what the pages look like, now we just wait (yeah, I know....).
Why?
Because we were told (over 15 months ago) that coupons were "a top priority" and "in active development", only to have the development shelved in favor of bringing Bay online.
We have no way of knowing whether or not that will happen again, despite any vague verbal assurances about "soon". An implementation date would be nice, but we all know SM won't quote dates...
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That is a good question. I have set up an account somewhere else and am awaiting my test prints. They were easy to set up and upload a gallery to. Coupons were very easy to setup and the pricing was much easier to use than Smugs. If the test prints look good, I may not be renewing and the only reason I looked anywhere else was the lack of coupons.
They are cheaper which will increase my revenue and their search engine works better for numbers (I can search on race numbers without needing to keyword them in quotes!) and seems to return results much faster.
I like Smug and don't really want to go through the hassle of changing everything over, but what else can I do?
I set up a returning customer coupon and send out the code to anyone that orders photos. I'm amazed at how many returning orders I've been getting. I think I'm pretty set with my current company also but my account at Smug is active until March and I have no commitment to anyone. The better product will win in the end but this is getting ridiculous.
Okay... lots I should be doing but curiosity got the best of me and I just had to do it (note not for any other reason than to poke and keep my tired eyes awake)..... I just had to look up the various definitions of soon. ! I guess it's not really funny but I'm ridiculously tired and in severe need of sleep... so I couldn't keep myself from laughing out loud.
Cover your sweet little ears and then check out Urban dictionary #1: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=soon
Ouch my ears and eyes both hurt now....
No puns... just simple sleep apnea fun ~ I love ya smugmug and fellow smugs Lord, please help me make it through today...
Okay... lots I should be doing but curiosity got the best of me and I just had to do it (note not for any other reason than to poke and keep my tired eyes awake)..... I just had to look up the various definitions of soon. ! I guess it's not really funny but I'm ridiculously tired and in severe need of sleep... so I couldn't keep myself from laughing out loud.
Ouch my ears and eyes both hurt now....
No puns... just simple sleep apnea fun ~ I love ya smugmug and fellow smugs Lord, please help me make it through today...
My Smugmug Site! http://tomauto.smugmug.com/ Canon Qualityl Canon 30D l Canon 70-200mm f/2.8 "L" IS Lens l Canon 17-55mm f/2.8 IS Lens l Canon 580ex ii Flash l Canon 580ex Flash l Canon BG-E2N Battery Grip Strobist 101 kit l Bogen / Manfrotto Super Clamp l Westcott Umbrellas - Soft Silver Collapsible and Optical White 43" l Bogen / Manfrotto 3373 Light Stand l Photoflex Multiclamp
That is a good question. I have set up an account somewhere else and am awaiting my test prints. They were easy to set up and upload a gallery to. Coupons were very easy to setup and the pricing was much easier to use than Smugs. If the test prints look good, I may not be renewing and the only reason I looked anywhere else was the lack of coupons.
They are cheaper which will increase my revenue and their search engine works better for numbers (I can search on race numbers without needing to keyword them in quotes!) and seems to return results much faster.
I like Smug and don't really want to go through the hassle of changing everything over, but what else can I do?
Please send me a PM with the name of your solution.
This thread is just over a year old, but the coupon/package crap has been going on a lot longer than that. I believe the last time I searched it there were threads dating back to 2005
A friend/fellow photographer and I were discussing SmugMug and the like the other day. He listed his complaints and I listed mine. I then added as I always do, "but their customer service is second to none." That's when he said "no, they just have a kind, sweet voice." It's true, great customer service implies that they are giving you what you want, there is a growing list of things right now that I would place in the fail column for SmugMug.
I said to him that I liked the small company aspect of it. He said "Really? That's why nothing is getting done, they get their mom&pop attitude that then filters down to the employees, the "that's not how we do it here" mentality, and next thing you know things are not getting done. Sure it's nice that they promptly answer emails and kindly tell you that you can't have what you want, but that's not service"
Way back SmugMug had a comment that you would see when you were thinking about signing up, it said something like, "love your service, please don't sell out to Microsoft"
I guarantee Microsoft would've developed coupons and packages for their customers by now. Some 5 years after people had started asking for them, and long after their competition had them rolled out successfully.
I think I need to start researching how hard it is going to be to get the hundred thousand plus images I have on SmugMug to another site, and take with me my thousands of photo views per hour (directly after an event) I know that because SmugMug used to have a function called SmugStats that gave real time updates on photo views, but they have taken that away, removed a part of the service I am paying for.
Come to think of it, I'm a little scared, with all of the downtime SM has lately, and their listed reason for taking away SmugStats is that it was ready to "implode" (I think that was the word). Am I at risk of losing all those photos, can SmugMug not handle the load they have generated? These are the questions that SmugMug is having me ask myself.
Why am I with a "service" that can't give me what everyone wants even after years of begging from their customers, and then starts to take away parts of their service that I have come to use strategically as part of my business workflow.
Yesterday as the site went down again during a critical time in my workflow, I started talking with my wife "what can we do, we are so invested with SM we have over a hundred thousand images on SM, and hundreds if not thousands of links (tons of which I'm sure I have forgotten about, ton's of which I don't even know about) that either use or lead to SM. Our entire structure is dependent on SM"
Well I am up for renewal in a few months, maybe SmugMug will make the decision easy for me, but probably not, I'll end up having to renew at least for one more year, I'll never be able to make the transition fast enough.
But for now, if nothing else I am done being the SM cheerleader that I have always been.
-Keith
"Sure it's nice that they promptly answer emails and kindly tell you that you can't have what you want, but that's not service"
The SM "service" goes beyond features. I've had issues with several orders - customer hosed crops before I enable proof delay, incorrect fulfillment (4" buttons ordered, 3" shipped - worst of all they clipped the 4" image into a 3" circle and lost a good bit of the image), and so on.
Each time its been fixed, always at no charge even if you could say it was my mistake (for not getting proof delay on).
Don't get me wrong here, I've dropped off the cheerleader rolls myself.
The utterly insane amount of time coupons and packages have taken, as well as lip service to other concerns (like an option to disable the uncustomizable /iphone interface) have me seriously investigating alternatives.
The only thing holding me back is the overall service SM does provide.
SmugMug has lots of things to love, but as a pro, I'm just not completely satisfied. SM has a very quick response time, but that response isn't always helpful. SM has the slickest user interface in the industry, and that's very cool. I have very little confidence in my relationship with SM from a legal perspective over the whole Sales Tax issues. I love the video hosting! I've said it before, but SM is the Gold Standard for amatures and enthusiasts, just not serious professionals. They've made great strides for the professional, and I'd choose them any day over Pictage. I set up my RedCart this weekend, and despite it's $1,000 pricetag, I'm very comfortable with my purchase. Will it take long to pay for it? It will take a while, but I've already offered coupons! And I'm collecting the taxes I'm obligated by law to collect and remit. I'll be losing the ability to archive my large files with SM, but I can set up a wedding gallery in RedCart in 10 minutes with all files uploaded! I do appreciate the cash only business model SM employs, but it's the reason for their snail's pace. It's hard to have both. I'm pleased with the offerings from Bay, but I much prefer Miller's and the ability to mount larger prints. Miller's mounted prints cost more, and I'll have to pass those costs on to the customer, but I don't have to pay anyone commission anymore, plus I can use boutique packaging. I will, however, have to sell $6700 to pay for RedCart compared to the 15% commission. I haven't left SM, but I'll be managing all my future galleries my self.
Sorry to threadjack, but can you expand on that? Not trying to pur gasoline on this, just wondered if it's something I need to know about.
I think what he's saying is that SM doesn't do anything for him with respect to sales taxes, he has to do it all himself. Sales tax laws have got to be a pain for a vendor like SM, but I'm wondering if it could be made relatively simple for SM if they simply allowed the pro to make a simple list. If the send-to address is in this state, then charge this percent for tax, send the sales tax to the pro as part of his "income", and note how much of that income is collected taxes for the state.
Sales taxes have just got to be a pain to deal with.
Isn't SM consider the 'vendor', so all sales taxes are based on a CA point of origin?
That's what SM implies. That's not what my state says (Arkansas), and it's also very clear in the state of TX. Collecting and remitting taxes isn't really a pain. It's a part of doing business. The state can audit me. The state can fine me. The state can charge me interest, and I don't believe SM will answer the door when the Department of Finance and Administration comes knocking. SM says I need to collect the taxes separately. "Hey customer thanks for the $1000 order you placed! I really appreciate your business. Here's an additional bill you didn't see in your shopping cart for $90."
I don't have all the answers, but I am certain a shopping cart solution that collects sales taxes is a better option, just ask your state.
That's what SM implies. That's not what my state says (Arkansas), and it's also very clear in the state of TX. Collecting and remitting taxes isn't really a pain. It's a part of doing business.
...
SM says I need to collect the taxes separately. "Hey customer thanks for the $1000 order you placed! I really appreciate your business. Here's an additional bill you didn't see in your shopping cart for $90."
Well that sucks.
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That's what SM implies. That's not what my state says (Arkansas), and it's also very clear in the state of TX. Collecting and remitting taxes isn't really a pain. It's a part of doing business. The state can audit me. The state can fine me. The state can charge me interest, and I don't believe SM will answer the door when the Department of Finance and Administration comes knocking. SM says I need to collect the taxes separately. "Hey customer thanks for the $1000 order you placed! I really appreciate your business. Here's an additional bill you didn't see in your shopping cart for $90."
I don't have all the answers, but I am certain a shopping cart solution that collects sales taxes is a better option, just ask your state.
For now, if required, folks are building the sales tax into their pricing and then dealing with the local taxing authorities.
Presently, since we're the seller and we're based in California, we only collect sales taxes on purchases made by buyers from the state of California.
We're going to dig deeper into soem of the states' tax rules, as they are constantly changing, since states are desperate for revenues.
Thanks for the response Andy. I trust that SM is looking into this issue, and I suspect it can be an easy decision to make. It won't be one that's easily executed (think coupons and packages). I wouldn't really call this a feature, but it will certainly inspire confidence.
We're finishing a major site-infrastructure project (think about re-doing all the electric and plumbing in your home, and water-sealing the basement and putting on a new roof) ... this is really important work for the continued strength of the site, and we're nearly done with it (most all in the company have been part of this). Coupons have continued to be worked on and I expect that 'sooner rather than later' right now means pretty soon. Still, I can't say the exact date. But we're gaining on it really fast. I know that's not an exact answer and I know you'll not be satisfied with it and I expect to be blasted but this is the best I can give. It's our number one priority as far as site features and we're fully zeroed in on it.
We're finishing a major site-infrastructure project (think about re-doing all the electric and plumbing in your home, and water-sealing the basement and putting on a new roof) ... this is really important work for the continued strength of the site, and we're nearly done with it (most all in the company have been part of this). Coupons have continued to be worked on and I expect that 'sooner rather than later' right now means pretty soon. Still, I can't say the exact date. But we're gaining on it really fast. I know that's not an exact answer and I know you'll not be satisfied with it and I expect to be blasted but this is the best I can give. It's our number one priority as far as site features and we're fully zeroed in on it.
Fire away
No missile's or shot propellant from my direction... How bout hugs for encouragement instead. Wish there was something I could do to help ya along...
We're finishing a major site-infrastructure project (think about re-doing all the electric and plumbing in your home, and water-sealing the basement and putting on a new roof) ... this is really important work for the continued strength of the site, and we're nearly done with it (most all in the company have been part of this).
Coupons have continued to be worked on and I expect that 'sooner rather than later' right now means pretty soon. Still, I can't say the exact date. But we're gaining on it really fast.
Can you name a quarter where you hope to have it done? "Soon" is so relative to - for instance are we talking days, weeks, months, or years?
Can you name a quarter where you hope to have it done? "Soon" is so relative to - for instance are we talking days, weeks, months, or years?
I think it should be obvious by now that SM's policy is not to disclose release dates for features. I do think its a safe bet that it is not years, but probably more than days.
I think it should be obvious by now that SM's policy is not to disclose release dates for features. I do think its a safe bet that it is not years, but probably more than days.
Then the word "soon" is meaningless.
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i think that's why Andy said "fire away" because all he can say is soon...although they may have a date internally, they just don't give that out publicly...so, yeah soon could mean just about anything at this time...
I think it should be obvious by now that SM's policy is not to disclose release dates for features. I do think its a safe bet that it is not years, but probably more than days.
Not such a safe bet, Coupons and packages have been being begged for by SM customers for years. SM has stated that it is a high priority for them for years. plenty of not as important (yes that's subjective, but a common belief) things have been put on the table, gone through the process then implemented and released in the time we have all been waiting for packages and coupons.
I'd be willing to bet that none of those previously mentioned projects had anywhere near the amount of interest as coupons and packages.
*sigh*
SM is starting to make a new name for themselves, sad how many people have gone from being SM cheerleaders to being frustrated with the way things are. Bad news spreads a lot faster than good.
I think it should be obvious by now that SM's policy is not to disclose release dates for features. I do think its a safe bet that it is not years, but probably more than days.
This is not the only forum this is being discussed on.......so it is not like it is a secret across the internet.........when it is on other forums and those SM'ers are talking pulling the plug what is one to think.........................
I am really beginning to feel as if CP-4-O and CP-5-O sit down and go wow wouldn't this be cool for us then we could use this for sending photos to the rest of the family and I bet we can convince at least 90% of our SM users this is a really great deal if we build the hype on Dgrin.......so what they are asking for foreign currency and coupons and packages, they'll get what we decide on and when we decide to give it to them.........
This is not an attack on any person in particular and the names have been omitted to protect the innocent............
I disagree with the assessment that Smug is not good for professionals. Not everyone is an event shooter. Not everyone who is an event shooter conducts their business in the same way. I never set out to be one but I (largely) am--but in my niche I do not have to worry about losing business to a competitor because I am unable to offer coupons and packages. Do I want those? Hail, yeah! But I want them "smuggy-style", bulletproof and ready to go on launch date. The thought of MS offering coupons and packages as my pro lab makes my guts clench. I don't want mediocrity. I appreciate that there has been lots of input and there will be lots of testing before the doors are thrown open.
I'm one of those that runs all sales though smuggy just BECAUSE of sales tax. I've had a CA resale license before and found it a total PITA. The only thing I directly deliver are digital purchases which the state board says are not taxable, and those are largely for commercial use. If I were to guess, I'd speculate that my level of business is smug's target market, in the lower 5 figures.
Of course the private shoot clients really want those packages--and since my business has expanded from critters to seniors and families, I'll need to have them. But choosing a shooter so far has been "personal" to my clients and not about a whole lot beyond my eye in the viewfinder.
Can you name a quarter where you hope to have it done? "Soon" is so relative to - for instance are we talking days, weeks, months, or years?
Relative to this "redoing the plumbing" thing, where is it?
Hm. Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear? We have to invest the sorcery time in this project - to keep SmugMug scalable and strong. We're getting this infrastructure stuff out on the live site now, as we speak, and then we'll finish up coupons.
Comments
Why?
Because we were told (over 15 months ago) that coupons were "a top priority" and "in active development", only to have the development shelved in favor of bringing Bay online.
We have no way of knowing whether or not that will happen again, despite any vague verbal assurances about "soon". An implementation date would be nice, but we all know SM won't quote dates...
I'm suprised it takes this long, but I don't know how much longer the masses will wait.
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~ Gear Pictures
That is a good question. I have set up an account somewhere else and am awaiting my test prints. They were easy to set up and upload a gallery to. Coupons were very easy to setup and the pricing was much easier to use than Smugs. If the test prints look good, I may not be renewing and the only reason I looked anywhere else was the lack of coupons.
They are cheaper which will increase my revenue and their search engine works better for numbers (I can search on race numbers without needing to keyword them in quotes!) and seems to return results much faster.
I like Smug and don't really want to go through the hassle of changing everything over, but what else can I do?
DMunsonPhoto
MaxPreps Profile
Sports Shooter
Cover your sweet little ears and then check out Urban dictionary #1: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=soon
Ouch my ears and eyes both hurt now....
No puns... just simple sleep apnea fun ~ I love ya smugmug and fellow smugs
#1, #3 and #5 fit.
#2 = FAIL
GOOO!! BIGWEBGUY!
Canon Quality l Canon 30D l Canon 70-200mm f/2.8 "L" IS Lens l Canon 17-55mm f/2.8 IS Lens l Canon 580ex ii Flash l Canon 580ex Flash l Canon BG-E2N Battery Grip
Strobist 101 kit l Bogen / Manfrotto Super Clamp l Westcott Umbrellas - Soft Silver Collapsible and Optical White 43" l Bogen / Manfrotto 3373 Light Stand l Photoflex Multiclamp
This thread is just over a year old, but the coupon/package crap has been going on a lot longer than that. I believe the last time I searched it there were threads dating back to 2005
A friend/fellow photographer and I were discussing SmugMug and the like the other day. He listed his complaints and I listed mine. I then added as I always do, "but their customer service is second to none." That's when he said "no, they just have a kind, sweet voice." It's true, great customer service implies that they are giving you what you want, there is a growing list of things right now that I would place in the fail column for SmugMug.
I said to him that I liked the small company aspect of it. He said "Really? That's why nothing is getting done, they get their mom&pop attitude that then filters down to the employees, the "that's not how we do it here" mentality, and next thing you know things are not getting done. Sure it's nice that they promptly answer emails and kindly tell you that you can't have what you want, but that's not service"
Way back SmugMug had a comment that you would see when you were thinking about signing up, it said something like, "love your service, please don't sell out to Microsoft"
I guarantee Microsoft would've developed coupons and packages for their customers by now. Some 5 years after people had started asking for them, and long after their competition had them rolled out successfully.
I think I need to start researching how hard it is going to be to get the hundred thousand plus images I have on SmugMug to another site, and take with me my thousands of photo views per hour (directly after an event) I know that because SmugMug used to have a function called SmugStats that gave real time updates on photo views, but they have taken that away, removed a part of the service I am paying for.
Come to think of it, I'm a little scared, with all of the downtime SM has lately, and their listed reason for taking away SmugStats is that it was ready to "implode" (I think that was the word). Am I at risk of losing all those photos, can SmugMug not handle the load they have generated? These are the questions that SmugMug is having me ask myself.
Why am I with a "service" that can't give me what everyone wants even after years of begging from their customers, and then starts to take away parts of their service that I have come to use strategically as part of my business workflow.
Yesterday as the site went down again during a critical time in my workflow, I started talking with my wife "what can we do, we are so invested with SM we have over a hundred thousand images on SM, and hundreds if not thousands of links (tons of which I'm sure I have forgotten about, ton's of which I don't even know about) that either use or lead to SM. Our entire structure is dependent on SM"
Well I am up for renewal in a few months, maybe SmugMug will make the decision easy for me, but probably not, I'll end up having to renew at least for one more year, I'll never be able to make the transition fast enough.
But for now, if nothing else I am done being the SM cheerleader that I have always been.
-Keith
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
The SM "service" goes beyond features. I've had issues with several orders - customer hosed crops before I enable proof delay, incorrect fulfillment (4" buttons ordered, 3" shipped - worst of all they clipped the 4" image into a 3" circle and lost a good bit of the image), and so on.
Each time its been fixed, always at no charge even if you could say it was my mistake (for not getting proof delay on).
Don't get me wrong here, I've dropped off the cheerleader rolls myself.
The utterly insane amount of time coupons and packages have taken, as well as lip service to other concerns (like an option to disable the uncustomizable /iphone interface) have me seriously investigating alternatives.
The only thing holding me back is the overall service SM does provide.
David
Sorry to threadjack, but can you expand on that? Not trying to pur gasoline on this, just wondered if it's something I need to know about.
Sales taxes have just got to be a pain to deal with.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
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That's what SM implies. That's not what my state says (Arkansas), and it's also very clear in the state of TX. Collecting and remitting taxes isn't really a pain. It's a part of doing business. The state can audit me. The state can fine me. The state can charge me interest, and I don't believe SM will answer the door when the Department of Finance and Administration comes knocking. SM says I need to collect the taxes separately. "Hey customer thanks for the $1000 order you placed! I really appreciate your business. Here's an additional bill you didn't see in your shopping cart for $90."
I don't have all the answers, but I am certain a shopping cart solution that collects sales taxes is a better option, just ask your state.
Presently, since we're the seller and we're based in California, we only collect sales taxes on purchases made by buyers from the state of California.
We're going to dig deeper into soem of the states' tax rules, as they are constantly changing, since states are desperate for revenues.
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David Manning
http://www.davidmanningphotography.com
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
Fire away
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Where do coupons fall relative to this effort?
Can you name a quarter where you hope to have it done? "Soon" is so relative to - for instance are we talking days, weeks, months, or years?
Relative to this "redoing the plumbing" thing, where is it?
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
Not such a safe bet, Coupons and packages have been being begged for by SM customers for years. SM has stated that it is a high priority for them for years. plenty of not as important (yes that's subjective, but a common belief) things have been put on the table, gone through the process then implemented and released in the time we have all been waiting for packages and coupons.
I'd be willing to bet that none of those previously mentioned projects had anywhere near the amount of interest as coupons and packages.
*sigh*
SM is starting to make a new name for themselves, sad how many people have gone from being SM cheerleaders to being frustrated with the way things are. Bad news spreads a lot faster than good.
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
Should we start a pool?
I'm betting 9-12 months.
...and, sadly, that's being very optimistic!
Mike
I am really beginning to feel as if CP-4-O and CP-5-O sit down and go wow wouldn't this be cool for us then we could use this for sending photos to the rest of the family and I bet we can convince at least 90% of our SM users this is a really great deal if we build the hype on Dgrin.......so what they are asking for foreign currency and coupons and packages, they'll get what we decide on and when we decide to give it to them.........
This is not an attack on any person in particular and the names have been omitted to protect the innocent............
I'm one of those that runs all sales though smuggy just BECAUSE of sales tax. I've had a CA resale license before and found it a total PITA. The only thing I directly deliver are digital purchases which the state board says are not taxable, and those are largely for commercial use. If I were to guess, I'd speculate that my level of business is smug's target market, in the lower 5 figures.
Of course the private shoot clients really want those packages--and since my business has expanded from critters to seniors and families, I'll need to have them. But choosing a shooter so far has been "personal" to my clients and not about a whole lot beyond my eye in the viewfinder.
Galleries here Upcoming Ranch/Horse Workshop
You guys don't want a leaky roof, I'm sure.
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