I am confused. What is the point of all this carping and complaining? Do you really think these distractions will help the product development team get the product out faster. Or, are you just trying to make them feel bad? Please help me with this. Enough is enough.
Bill - one of the great things about Smugmug is they provide a place - this forum - for discussion and input from their users/partners. Feedback in any relationship is helpful - first, it helps the party (smugmug in this case) learn pain points for their users/partners. In many cases it is, in fact, the squeeky wheel that gets the grease. Let's say, for the sake of argument that Smugmug has 3 enhancements under construction. And for simplicity sake let's say all 3 are the same size effort on their part. And, again keeping it simple, let's say all 3 have the same payback. If the user base is raising holy heck about 1 of the 3, which do you think Smugmug is going to give the extra grease to? In reality - it's never that simple. There are mandatory upgrades you have to do because of software compatibility, hardware limitations, throughput, etc... And, software development projects rarely have the same payback as one another. But, it's my experience that successful businesses respond to the demands of their clients and shift priorities when possible to meet those demands.
Also, in addition to prioritization and allocation of resources, there is an attempt in this discussion to affect change in Smugmug's communications strategy. For certain, they don't HAVE to change anything. But Smugmug has shown in the past they value user input. Customer Service is a competitive advantage for Smugmug - and any comments positive or negative from their user base regarding customer service need to be listened to or suddenly that competitive advantage goes away. Professional Users are more demanding than people just sharing family photos. So, as Smugmug tries to move forward as a dominant player in the pro shooter world (which they've indicated they wish to do by including a partnership with Bay Photo) they need to be more cognizent of the expectations those pro users have. Which I'm guessing is why this thread is still going.
Beetle, I know you're frustrated but this is uncalled for - this thread was created to solicit customer input and feedback, we asked for feedback on building the feature, and we've taken it - and we continue to take feedback for the feature - including somethings that have been added into v1 (developing now) and other stuff that's going to v2.
You're made your dissatisfaction known, over and again - and I'm sorry we've let you down. But we're really, really going to get back to work.... If you have new questions, or new issues, of course I'll address them.
Just stating a fact, the thread would have been better titled "give us your coupon suggestions" or "what is on your coupon wish list?"
After the coupons are released we could then have a "coupon feedback thread." in hopes of improving V2
I was just commenting on the use of the word feedback, when I ask my customers for feedback, I am refering to the service or product which they have recently purchased from me. We encourage feedback from all customers in our thank you emails that are sent to all customers.
When customers are upset with me for not providing a certain product, (which believe it or not I had quite a few, because until recently I didn't offer digital DL's and still don't offer disks) I ask for their "suggestions" and "input" toward the possible product.
So there was really nothing uncalled for in my post.
I understand your defensiveness, and as I've told you before I don't envy your position, I am impressed with your level temper, but as long as you offer me a forum to express myself in, I will assume that you are in fact interested in my input, suggestions, feedback, dissapointments and praise.
Until recently I didn't do anything but walk around with a big "SM is #1" sign with no reason to complain.
Bill - one of the great things about Smugmug is they provide a place - this forum - for discussion and input from their users/partners. Feedback in any relationship is helpful - first, it helps the party (smugmug in this case) learn pain points for their users/partners. In many cases it is, in fact, the squeeky wheel that gets the grease. Let's say, for the sake of argument that Smugmug has 3 enhancements under construction. And for simplicity sake let's say all 3 are the same size effort on their part. And, again keeping it simple, let's say all 3 have the same payback. If the user base is raising holy heck about 1 of the 3, which do you think Smugmug is going to give the extra grease to? In reality - it's never that simple. There are mandatory upgrades you have to do because of software compatibility, hardware limitations, throughput, etc... And, software development projects rarely have the same payback as one another. But, it's my experience that successful businesses respond to the demands of their clients and shift priorities when possible to meet those demands.
Also, in addition to prioritization and allocation of resources, there is an attempt in this discussion to affect change in Smugmug's communications strategy. For certain, they don't HAVE to change anything. But Smugmug has shown in the past they value user input. Customer Service is a competitive advantage for Smugmug - and any comments positive or negative from their user base regarding customer service need to be listened to or suddenly that competitive advantage goes away. Professional Users are more demanding than people just sharing family photos. So, as Smugmug tries to move forward as a dominant player in the pro shooter world (which they've indicated they wish to do by including a partnership with Bay Photo) they need to be more cognizent of the expectations those pro users have. Which I'm guessing is why this thread is still going.
Johng,
Now I understand. This is a new concept for me. Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me.
Frankly, sometimes I feel like a sucker who has been persuaded to stick around waiting for coupons instead of getting on with my business and Andy's posts only seem to serve as lulling letters.
Get a grip dude! I've been lurking around this thread now for quite a while. You and the other whiners have just gotten too much like crybabies for me to keep my thoughts to myself any longer.
I won't go into all the gory details...Andy and the rest of the guys at SmugMug know my story, but let me fill you in just a little.
I'm, what I like to call, an "intinerant photographer". Yah, go ahead and read that as "homeless" if you like.
After an unwanted divorce in 2006, I hit the road. Along the way, someone gave me a camera to document my travels. I've been traveling and shooting since then.
I don't have a fancy studio or strobes or all the other "toys" that seem to make life easy for photographers. Hell, I'm not a great photographer...I'm just a hack. I see it. I shoot it.
My sole possessions consist of the clothes I'm wearing right now along with one set of clothes that's in my duffel bag. I've got a Panasonic Lumix camera and a tripod.
Yah, coupons would be nice...but I can think of alot of other things I'd like to have more...a nicer camera would be great.
Andy and the rest of the guys at SM have just been super! With all the help and support they've given me, you'd think I was the top photog on SM. They've gone out of their way and WAY above the call of duty in helping me make my shots better AND they've provided a pretty cool tool to help me show others my shots.
I'm a Vietnam Veteran. Being able to look at the world through the lens of a camera is kind of therapeutic for me. The camera has taken me places and introduced me to people that I wouldn't have otherwise met...and the tech support I get from Andy and the folks have gone a long ways towards making all this possible.
Your problem is when are the coupons coming out. My problem is where I'm going to sleep tonight and what I'm going to find to eat. What little bit of money I do make with my photos (it was a grand total of $151.34 last month), I give to organizations that work with homeless vets. And no, I don't have a pension or disability payment or anything coming in.
Buddy, I don't tell you all this to get a sympathy vote...I just share this to let you know that your measley little problem of not having coupons yet is just that...MEASLEY! Get a grip...come out from behind that fancy studio camera or whatever other gear you have and join me on the road for a month or two.
When you've been through Eastern Kentucky, Georgia, Virginia and some of the other states I've been in...you'll be grateful that your biggest problem seems to be no coupons.
So with all that said...back off. There's a way to make money in photography without coupons. As for me? Welll, I'm gonna finish this cup of coffee, pick up my camera and duffel bag and step out the door. I like seeing what's around the bend in the road or over the next hilll. Having coupons or not having them won't change that one bit.
Andy -- my deepest appreciatioin to you and the rest of the folks at SmugMug for giving this tired ol' vet an anchor in life. One day, hopefully soon, I'lll be able to repay you guys for all you've done for me and all you're doing.
Get a grip dude! I've been lurking around this thread now for quite a while. You and the other whiners have just gotten too much like crybabies for me to keep my thoughts to myself any longer.
I won't go into all the gory details...Andy and the rest of the guys at SmugMug know my story, but let me fill you in just a little.
I'm, what I like to call, an "intinerant photographer". Yah, go ahead and read that as "homeless" if you like.
After an unwanted divorce in 2006, I hit the road. Along the way, someone gave me a camera to document my travels. I've been traveling and shooting since then.
I don't have a fancy studio or strobes or all the other "toys" that seem to make life easy for photographers. Hell, I'm not a great photographer...I'm just a hack. I see it. I shoot it.
My sole possessions consist of the clothes I'm wearing right now along with one set of clothes that's in my duffel bag. I've got a Panasonic Lumix camera and a tripod.
Yah, coupons would be nice...but I can think of alot of other things I'd like to have more...a nicer camera would be great.
Andy and the rest of the guys at SM have just been super! With all the help and support they've given me, you'd think I was the top photog on SM. They've gone out of their way and WAY above the call of duty in helping me make my shots better AND they've provided a pretty cool tool to help me show others my shots.
I'm a Vietnam Veteran. Being able to look at the world through the lens of a camera is kind of therapeutic for me. The camera has taken me places and introduced me to people that I wouldn't have otherwise met...and the tech support I get from Andy and the folks have gone a long ways towards making all this possible.
Your problem is when are the coupons coming out. My problem is where I'm going to sleep tonight and what I'm going to find to eat. What little bit of money I do make with my photos (it was a grand total of $151.34 last month), I give to organizations that work with homeless vets. And no, I don't have a pension or disability payment or anything coming in.
Buddy, I don't tell you all this to get a sympathy vote...I just share this to let you know that your measley little problem of not having coupons yet is just that...MEASLEY! Get a grip...come out from behind that fancy studio camera or whatever other gear you have and join me on the road for a month or two.
When you've been through Eastern Kentucky, Georgia, Virginia and some of the other states I've been in...you'll be grateful that your biggest problem seems to be no coupons.
So with all that said...back off. There's a way to make money in photography without coupons. As for me? Welll, I'm gonna finish this cup of coffee, pick up my camera and duffel bag and step out the door. I like seeing what's around the bend in the road or over the next hilll. Having coupons or not having them won't change that one bit.
Andy -- my deepest appreciatioin to you and the rest of the folks at SmugMug for giving this tired ol' vet an anchor in life. One day, hopefully soon, I'lll be able to repay you guys for all you've done for me and all you're doing.
I think you are trying to add context to the issue that does not apply. I'm sorry that you have issues in life that dwarf the lack of coupons on SmugMug, but that really doesn't change the facts.
To me, it's pretty simple: SM asked for feedback regarding a new feature they started on a *long* time ago, and people have gotten impatient waiting on it. People have various degrees of patience for a myriad of reasons; some business, some personal, some behavioral, some logical.
As someone with a very different story than yours, I cannot relate to your life; however, you can still take photos, you can still get on the net, you are healthy enough to travel, etc. There are those with less than you. Does that change or lessen your experience to you?
To each their own life. However, I do think this discussion has gotten too personal. Let's all take a breath and relax. SM knows we want this feature badly. I don't think that can be made any clearer, and at this point, I don't think plans or implementation will be affected by anything said here.
It's like my parents always told me, "You are free to disagree, but always keep it respectful."
By the way Jerry, a sincere thanks for you military service. I mean that and don't intend to demean you or any part of your post...just trying to keep the discussion fact-based.
Coupons & Commissions I have chosen to use my time constructively as I (patently ) wait for coupons.... I have started working on how to best implement them once they are available. This has lead me to a few questions.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> I saw a screen shot of the coupon interface in another thread where there are several different types available ($ discount, % discount, $ in photo credit, etc.). I am curious about how these coupons will work with respect to my account and commissions.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> For instance: say I give a client a photo credit of $10 and they purchase $20 worth of images. Would SM keep a 15% commission of $10 or $20?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Another instance: I give a client that same photo credit of $10 and they only purchase $8 worth of images. Will this be allowed (hopefully not) and would my account be charged the cost of producing the print(s)?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Any answers from the SM team would be appreciated!
There are those with less than you. Does that change or lessen your experience to you?
I sincerely apologize if my note came across as "woe is me". I assure you, that is not an attitude I either carry with me nor try to portray to others.
I have my health. I always have a roof over my head -- even if that roof is the sky that is filled with the stars of God's glory.
I've made friends all over the country.
If I find myself bored in a town, I can always seek adventure on the open road. If I find myself in a place that I want to explore for awhile -- well, I can do that too. No time clocks, no deadlines, no pressures.
If I see something I want to shoot -- I shoot it (with a camera of course). I don't have picky customers that go over my shots with a fine tooth comb. I see it. I shoot it.
I don't have outrageous overhead. I don't have to worry about paying rent or feeding a mortgage each month. I don't have car payments and I don't have to worry about what gas prices are going to do. I don't have to fight with insurance companies and I can sleep well at night regardless of what the stock market does.
The world is my home. While I'm not a great shooter, I have been very lucky. My stuff has been used by CNN, USAToday, USAirways and others.
I am truly blessed...more so than many. I also pray that others may find the peace and serenity that comes with accepting life as it is. As the Serenity prayer says, "Help me to change the things that I can...". I can't change coupons...I won't even try. They'll be ready when they're ready.
God's blessings on you and yours and I hope we can meet on the road one day during this journey we call life.
Jerry Nelson
I see it. I shoot it. I live it. Join the adventure
The world is my home. While I'm not a great shooter, I have been very lucky. My stuff has been used by CNN, USAToday, USAirways and others.
I don't suppose I could talk you into writing up how those came about - in a new thread elsewhere on Dgrin? To be able to do what you do, and get your material used in such places is amazing, and I'm sure I'm not alone in being curious how you did this?
I am truly blessed...more so than many. I also pray that others may find the peace and serenity that comes with accepting life as it is. As the Serenity prayer says, "Help me to change the things that I can...". I can't change coupons...I won't even try. They'll be ready when they're ready.
I agree with you on that, and it hasn't been my intention to marginalize what SM's people are doing with coupons et al but to - ahem - "encourage" them in a different direction with respect to how they communicate with the outside world. In the end we're all on the same side - we all want to do the best we can, and have SM be the absolute 'best in class' so that SM's pro customers can deliver a drop-your-jaw experience to their customer base. That there'll be some arm-wrestling about certain issues along the way is a given - it's the nature of the beast.
All the best!
Save $5 off your first year's SmugMug image hosting with coupon code hccesQbqNBJbc
I don't suppose I could talk you into writing up how those came about - in a new thread elsewhere on Dgrin? To be able to do what you do, and get your material used in such places is amazing, and I'm sure I'm not alone in being curious how you did this?
I'd be more than happy to share...with two conditions.
#1 Let me know where on dGrin it would be appropriate and
#2 Everyone realizes that what I share is just what I'm doing and NOT meant to be the way it has to be done for everyone.
With those in mind, just point me in the right direction, I'lll be happy to oblige.
I have chosen to use my time constructively as I (patently <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/thumb.gif" border="0" alt="" >) wait for coupons.... I have started working on how to best implement them once they are available. This has lead me to a few questions.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> I saw a screen shot of the coupon interface in another thread where there are several different types available ($ discount, % discount, $ in photo credit, etc.). I am curious about how these coupons will work with respect to my account and commissions.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> For instance: say I give a client a photo credit of $10 and they purchase $20 worth of images. Would SM keep a 15% commission of $10 or $20?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Another instance: I give a client that same photo credit of $10 and they only purchase $8 worth of images. Will this be allowed (hopefully not) and would my account be charged the cost of producing the print(s)?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Any answers from the SM team would be appreciated!
I'm not part of the "SM Team", but I'd be willing to bet it will work like this:
($20 gross sale - Actual print cost ) * 15% = SM monies.
($20 gross sale - Actual print cost ) * 85% - $10 = Amount paid to you.
If by some chance the actual print cost + SM's 15% exceed $10 you will be charged for difference (not sure its possible, just wanted to be complete).
Are your thoughts on this based on what other companies are doing with coupons? It wouldn't make a lot of sense to me for SM charge commission on the Gross Sale in this instance. If I wanted to give my loyal customers a discount (effectively lowering the print price that I set), it shouldn't be any different than me lowering my prices in the gallery to begin with IMO.
Are your thoughts on this based on what other companies are doing with coupons? It wouldn't make a lot of sense to me for SM charge commission on the Gross Sale in this instance. If I wanted to give my loyal customers a discount (effectively lowering the print price that I set), it shouldn't be any different than me lowering my prices in the gallery to begin with IMO.
I suspect that there will still be 15% on the total sale before coupons. Most companies seem to do it this way even though it isn't the most fair way IMO.
I suspect that there will still be 15% on the total sale before coupons. Most companies seem to do it this way even though it isn't the most fair way IMO.
I can't think of any 'most companies' doing this... and can hardly imagine SM doing so... sure hope SM chimes in on this with an answer. Smugmug???
Are your thoughts on this based on what other companies are doing with coupons? It wouldn't make a lot of sense to me for SM charge commission on the Gross Sale in this instance. If I wanted to give my loyal customers a discount (effectively lowering the print price that I set), it shouldn't be any different than me lowering my prices in the gallery to begin with IMO.
It would make good (business) sense for SM, that's why.
I'd be pleasantly surprised to find out otherwise, but I don't think so...
For example (from your concept):
You start selling "coupons" for $20 off a $20 purchase.
Customer orders $20 worth of prints (say one 4x6 lustre print, you're a real pro)
SM deducts the base cost of the prints ($0.21), applies the $20 off coupon and the "profit" remaining is negative (-$0.21) which gets charged to you.
Net profit to SM? Zero, or very little, assuming print mark-up is small.
Net profit for you? $19.79.
Using my assumption:
$20 - $0.21 = $19.79 "gross profit"
$19.97 - $2.97 (15% profit to SM)
Which leaves $16.82 "profit" left. Deduct the $20 "coupon" and SM now charges you $3.18. Net profit to you is $16.82. In other words, the coupon cost them nothing.
Its a bit farcical, but it illustrates the point. SM will not be subsidizing your coupons.
Heck, even the government is getting into the scam (at least here in Illinois). Any product purchased with an "Instant Rebate" is still taxed at the pre-rebate price even though that isn't what you're paying.
Process Changes
OK, Guys, I've followed this thread for over a year now; I've occasionally jumped in with a thought or two, and there's a couple of things I need to throw in:
1) I'm really disappointed in the tone of the posts lately; they've become personal ad hominem attacks, rather than discussion of the issue at hand. May I ask the next potential "flame thrower" to walk away from the keyboard for a few minutes, grab a soda, chill out, then come back? When I see the flames I do two things: want to drop tracking the thread, and lower the credibility of that person in my mind to zero. So let's take it back to cordial and constructive -- please?
2) I need the coupons, too. Because of the tax structure in my state, I break out a photo credit from my overall shoot fee to lower the taxes to my customer. In addition, it often "primes the pump" to get more photos. I'd like to set up a coupon equal to the photo credit I give the customer.
That said, I don't have that option right now. I've looked at other sites, like most of you, and nothing presents as well as Smugmug, unless you develop a custom site (I've done web design, and it's just too expensive to keep up a site like that unless you're a fairly large studio). Additionally, I've had wonderful support from the folks at Smugmug, and I really like a family-owned company that's run so well. I just like these guys!
Since I don't have coupons, I must then change my process (sorry for any unintentional jargon - I'm a project manager; common liability ). For me, it's actually helped in some cases.
For awhile, I've told my customers, "DON'T order from the site until you talk to me - I can't give you your credit on-line. Order from me for at least your credit." I have to enable printing so my customers can see prices. Warning them usually works, but I've had a few customers order anyway. Fortunately, in those cases, they wanted more later, so I was able to extend the credit. However, things don't always work out that way.
So I try set up a follow-up session to meet them. I'll bring my 17" laptop (which is color-calibrated for best presentation) to their place. I encourage them to bring family, friends, whatever. I use some presentation software, and I walk them through the photos.
As the presentation rolls, and the comments start coming, people get excited, usually more excited than if they were simply looking at them in their office. We pick the photos together. By the time they're done, they've had a fun experience, they've enjoyed ordering the photos, and they're usually well above the photo credit. At that point, most don't mind the additional cost, and we complete the sale. That sale is usually higher than if they simply ordered off the website.
If I had the coupons, I'd use them: there are people who don't want to meet, who are on a tight budget, or who are far away (other states, etc). Coupons would also be critical for my event shoots (airshows, banquets, etc). Nonetheless, in certain situations, maybe there are some other tools that could actually serve us better than ANY website, even Smugmug's. If I have the option to sit with a customer and walk them through, I'll do that first.
It would make good (business) sense for SM, that's why.
I'd be pleasantly surprised to find out otherwise, but I don't think so...
For example (from your concept):
You start selling "coupons" for $20 off a $20 purchase.
Customer orders $20 worth of prints (say one 4x6 lustre print, you're a real pro)
SM deducts the base cost of the prints ($0.21), applies the $20 off coupon and the "profit" remaining is negative (-$0.21) which gets charged to you.
Net profit to SM? Zero, or very little, assuming print mark-up is small.
Net profit for you? $19.79.
Using my assumption:
$20 - $0.21 = $19.79 "gross profit"
$19.97 - $2.97 (15% profit to SM)
Which leaves $16.82 "profit" left. Deduct the $20 "coupon" and SM now charges you $3.18. Net profit to you is $16.82. In other words, the coupon cost them nothing.
Its a bit farcical, but it illustrates the point. SM will not be subsidizing your coupons.
While doing this was never my intention you do have a valid point; however, your senereo would be no different than me charging a $20 "image creation fee" up front to a client and setting up a special gallery for them with at-cost pricing. Net profit to SM? Zero... and if I wanted to, I could do this now without coupons. This whole commission issue becomes sticky because SM does not set the prices, photographers do. If I want to give my loyal customers a discount for whatever reason, I should be able to do so without being overcharged IMO.
This whole conversation coud be a waste of time should SM's intentions be different... I sure hope they comment on this subject!
While doing this was never my intention you do have a valid point; however, your senereo would be no different than me charging a $20 "image creation fee" up front to a client and setting up a special gallery for them with at-cost pricing. Net profit to SM? Zero... and if I wanted to, I could do this now without coupons. This whole commission issue becomes sticky because SM does not set the prices, photographers do. If I want to give my loyal customers a discount for whatever reason, I should be able to do so without being overcharged IMO.
This whole conversation coud be a waste of time should SM's intentions be different... I sure hope they comment on this subject!
Thanks,
The difference is the sale price set for the gallery, which is what SM uses to calculate their 15%.
There are already plenty of SM users (wedding togs mostly I would guess) who use SM as an online proof book, handling orders directly, sometimes with print credits already worked in to their deal.
SM sees none of the theoretical profit from those sales (just like your latest situation), but they are also no longer "on the hook" for their satisfaction guarantee - unlike your scenario.
Your scenario is workable for individual clients with private galleries (circumventing coupons by taking money directly and selling prints at cost).
In my case (event shooting) I have some loyal customers I would like to thank with a discount, without letting everyone else in on the deal.
Is this true
So if I sell a print for $1000 from my SM account they get $150? Good grief, I never realized that.
I thought they just charged a set amount for prints.
So if I sell a print for $1000 from my SM account they get $150? Good grief, I never realized that.
I thought they just charged a set amount for prints.
You know, I never thought it that way. That's a good chunk of change!
So if I sell a print for $1000 from my SM account they get $150? Good grief, I never realized that.
I thought they just charged a set amount for prints.
So what? Despite current popular misconceptions, profit is a good thing.
-Jack
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Very true! There is also no "I" in "TEAM", but there is one in "PROFIT".... that's why I want to ensure that "I" get as much of the profit as possible!
Comments
Bill - one of the great things about Smugmug is they provide a place - this forum - for discussion and input from their users/partners. Feedback in any relationship is helpful - first, it helps the party (smugmug in this case) learn pain points for their users/partners. In many cases it is, in fact, the squeeky wheel that gets the grease. Let's say, for the sake of argument that Smugmug has 3 enhancements under construction. And for simplicity sake let's say all 3 are the same size effort on their part. And, again keeping it simple, let's say all 3 have the same payback. If the user base is raising holy heck about 1 of the 3, which do you think Smugmug is going to give the extra grease to? In reality - it's never that simple. There are mandatory upgrades you have to do because of software compatibility, hardware limitations, throughput, etc... And, software development projects rarely have the same payback as one another. But, it's my experience that successful businesses respond to the demands of their clients and shift priorities when possible to meet those demands.
Also, in addition to prioritization and allocation of resources, there is an attempt in this discussion to affect change in Smugmug's communications strategy. For certain, they don't HAVE to change anything. But Smugmug has shown in the past they value user input. Customer Service is a competitive advantage for Smugmug - and any comments positive or negative from their user base regarding customer service need to be listened to or suddenly that competitive advantage goes away. Professional Users are more demanding than people just sharing family photos. So, as Smugmug tries to move forward as a dominant player in the pro shooter world (which they've indicated they wish to do by including a partnership with Bay Photo) they need to be more cognizent of the expectations those pro users have. Which I'm guessing is why this thread is still going.
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Thoughts on photographing a wedding, How to post a picture, AF Microadjustments?, Light Scoop
Equipment List - Check my profile
I'd also note that having lots of customers passionately clamoring for various enhancements & updates is a good problem for a company to have.
Just stating a fact, the thread would have been better titled "give us your coupon suggestions" or "what is on your coupon wish list?"
After the coupons are released we could then have a "coupon feedback thread." in hopes of improving V2
I was just commenting on the use of the word feedback, when I ask my customers for feedback, I am refering to the service or product which they have recently purchased from me. We encourage feedback from all customers in our thank you emails that are sent to all customers.
When customers are upset with me for not providing a certain product, (which believe it or not I had quite a few, because until recently I didn't offer digital DL's and still don't offer disks) I ask for their "suggestions" and "input" toward the possible product.
So there was really nothing uncalled for in my post.
I understand your defensiveness, and as I've told you before I don't envy your position, I am impressed with your level temper, but as long as you offer me a forum to express myself in, I will assume that you are in fact interested in my input, suggestions, feedback, dissapointments and praise.
Until recently I didn't do anything but walk around with a big "SM is #1" sign with no reason to complain.
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
Now I understand. This is a new concept for me. Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me.
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Meee Tooo!
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
Get a grip dude! I've been lurking around this thread now for quite a while. You and the other whiners have just gotten too much like crybabies for me to keep my thoughts to myself any longer.
I won't go into all the gory details...Andy and the rest of the guys at SmugMug know my story, but let me fill you in just a little.
I'm, what I like to call, an "intinerant photographer". Yah, go ahead and read that as "homeless" if you like.
After an unwanted divorce in 2006, I hit the road. Along the way, someone gave me a camera to document my travels. I've been traveling and shooting since then.
I don't have a fancy studio or strobes or all the other "toys" that seem to make life easy for photographers. Hell, I'm not a great photographer...I'm just a hack. I see it. I shoot it.
My sole possessions consist of the clothes I'm wearing right now along with one set of clothes that's in my duffel bag. I've got a Panasonic Lumix camera and a tripod.
Yah, coupons would be nice...but I can think of alot of other things I'd like to have more...a nicer camera would be great.
Andy and the rest of the guys at SM have just been super! With all the help and support they've given me, you'd think I was the top photog on SM. They've gone out of their way and WAY above the call of duty in helping me make my shots better AND they've provided a pretty cool tool to help me show others my shots.
I'm a Vietnam Veteran. Being able to look at the world through the lens of a camera is kind of therapeutic for me. The camera has taken me places and introduced me to people that I wouldn't have otherwise met...and the tech support I get from Andy and the folks have gone a long ways towards making all this possible.
Your problem is when are the coupons coming out. My problem is where I'm going to sleep tonight and what I'm going to find to eat. What little bit of money I do make with my photos (it was a grand total of $151.34 last month), I give to organizations that work with homeless vets. And no, I don't have a pension or disability payment or anything coming in.
Buddy, I don't tell you all this to get a sympathy vote...I just share this to let you know that your measley little problem of not having coupons yet is just that...MEASLEY! Get a grip...come out from behind that fancy studio camera or whatever other gear you have and join me on the road for a month or two.
When you've been through Eastern Kentucky, Georgia, Virginia and some of the other states I've been in...you'll be grateful that your biggest problem seems to be no coupons.
So with all that said...back off. There's a way to make money in photography without coupons. As for me? Welll, I'm gonna finish this cup of coffee, pick up my camera and duffel bag and step out the door. I like seeing what's around the bend in the road or over the next hilll. Having coupons or not having them won't change that one bit.
Andy -- my deepest appreciatioin to you and the rest of the folks at SmugMug for giving this tired ol' vet an anchor in life. One day, hopefully soon, I'lll be able to repay you guys for all you've done for me and all you're doing.
May God's blessings be on you
Jerry Nelson
I see it. I shoot it. I live it.
www.meesoon.smugmug.com
Jerry, next time you're through the Kentucky area, let me know - I'd love to shoot with ya (i'm sort of a hack too!)...safe travels...
I think you are trying to add context to the issue that does not apply. I'm sorry that you have issues in life that dwarf the lack of coupons on SmugMug, but that really doesn't change the facts.
To me, it's pretty simple: SM asked for feedback regarding a new feature they started on a *long* time ago, and people have gotten impatient waiting on it. People have various degrees of patience for a myriad of reasons; some business, some personal, some behavioral, some logical.
As someone with a very different story than yours, I cannot relate to your life; however, you can still take photos, you can still get on the net, you are healthy enough to travel, etc. There are those with less than you. Does that change or lessen your experience to you?
To each their own life. However, I do think this discussion has gotten too personal. Let's all take a breath and relax. SM knows we want this feature badly. I don't think that can be made any clearer, and at this point, I don't think plans or implementation will be affected by anything said here.
It's like my parents always told me, "You are free to disagree, but always keep it respectful."
By the way Jerry, a sincere thanks for you military service. I mean that and don't intend to demean you or any part of your post...just trying to keep the discussion fact-based.
-Allen
I have chosen to use my time constructively as I (patently
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I saw a screen shot of the coupon interface in another thread where there are several different types available ($ discount, % discount, $ in photo credit, etc.). I am curious about how these coupons will work with respect to my account and commissions.<o:p></o:p>
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For instance: say I give a client a photo credit of $10 and they purchase $20 worth of images. Would SM keep a 15% commission of $10 or $20?<o:p></o:p>
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Another instance: I give a client that same photo credit of $10 and they only purchase $8 worth of images. Will this be allowed (hopefully not) and would my account be charged the cost of producing the print(s)?<o:p></o:p>
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Any answers from the SM team would be appreciated!
Thanks,
Eric
I sincerely apologize if my note came across as "woe is me". I assure you, that is not an attitude I either carry with me nor try to portray to others.
I have my health. I always have a roof over my head -- even if that roof is the sky that is filled with the stars of God's glory.
I've made friends all over the country.
If I find myself bored in a town, I can always seek adventure on the open road. If I find myself in a place that I want to explore for awhile -- well, I can do that too. No time clocks, no deadlines, no pressures.
If I see something I want to shoot -- I shoot it (with a camera of course). I don't have picky customers that go over my shots with a fine tooth comb. I see it. I shoot it.
I don't have outrageous overhead. I don't have to worry about paying rent or feeding a mortgage each month. I don't have car payments and I don't have to worry about what gas prices are going to do. I don't have to fight with insurance companies and I can sleep well at night regardless of what the stock market does.
The world is my home. While I'm not a great shooter, I have been very lucky. My stuff has been used by CNN, USAToday, USAirways and others.
I am truly blessed...more so than many. I also pray that others may find the peace and serenity that comes with accepting life as it is. As the Serenity prayer says, "Help me to change the things that I can...". I can't change coupons...I won't even try. They'll be ready when they're ready.
God's blessings on you and yours and I hope we can meet on the road one day during this journey we call life.
Jerry Nelson
I see it. I shoot it. I live it. Join the adventure
www.meesoon.smugmug.com
www.JourneyAmerica.org
I'm also interested in this: I don't suppose I could talk you into writing up how those came about - in a new thread elsewhere on Dgrin? To be able to do what you do, and get your material used in such places is amazing, and I'm sure I'm not alone in being curious how you did this?
I agree with you on that, and it hasn't been my intention to marginalize what SM's people are doing with coupons et al but to - ahem - "encourage" them in a different direction with respect to how they communicate with the outside world. In the end we're all on the same side - we all want to do the best we can, and have SM be the absolute 'best in class' so that SM's pro customers can deliver a drop-your-jaw experience to their customer base. That there'll be some arm-wrestling about certain issues along the way is a given - it's the nature of the beast.
All the best!
I'd be more than happy to share...with two conditions.
#1 Let me know where on dGrin it would be appropriate and
#2 Everyone realizes that what I share is just what I'm doing and NOT meant to be the way it has to be done for everyone.
With those in mind, just point me in the right direction, I'lll be happy to oblige.
Blessings
Jerry Nelson
www.meesoon.smugmug.com
($20 gross sale - Actual print cost ) * 15% = SM monies.
($20 gross sale - Actual print cost ) * 85% - $10 = Amount paid to you.
If by some chance the actual print cost + SM's 15% exceed $10 you will be charged for difference (not sure its possible, just wanted to be complete).
OK, it's up and posted.
Blessings
Jerry Nelson
www.meesoon.smugmug.com
Are your thoughts on this based on what other companies are doing with coupons? It wouldn't make a lot of sense to me for SM charge commission on the Gross Sale in this instance. If I wanted to give my loyal customers a discount (effectively lowering the print price that I set), it shouldn't be any different than me lowering my prices in the gallery to begin with IMO.
Eric
Want faster uploading? Vote for FTP!
I can't think of any 'most companies' doing this...
It would make good (business) sense for SM, that's why.
I'd be pleasantly surprised to find out otherwise, but I don't think so...
For example (from your concept):
You start selling "coupons" for $20 off a $20 purchase.
Customer orders $20 worth of prints (say one 4x6 lustre print, you're a real pro)
SM deducts the base cost of the prints ($0.21), applies the $20 off coupon and the "profit" remaining is negative (-$0.21) which gets charged to you.
Net profit to SM? Zero, or very little, assuming print mark-up is small.
Net profit for you? $19.79.
Using my assumption:
$20 - $0.21 = $19.79 "gross profit"
$19.97 - $2.97 (15% profit to SM)
Which leaves $16.82 "profit" left. Deduct the $20 "coupon" and SM now charges you $3.18. Net profit to you is $16.82. In other words, the coupon cost them nothing.
Its a bit farcical, but it illustrates the point. SM will not be subsidizing your coupons.
Heck, even the government is getting into the scam (at least here in Illinois). Any product purchased with an "Instant Rebate" is still taxed at the pre-rebate price even though that isn't what you're paying.
OK, Guys, I've followed this thread for over a year now; I've occasionally jumped in with a thought or two, and there's a couple of things I need to throw in:
1) I'm really disappointed in the tone of the posts lately; they've become personal ad hominem attacks, rather than discussion of the issue at hand. May I ask the next potential "flame thrower" to walk away from the keyboard for a few minutes, grab a soda, chill out, then come back? When I see the flames I do two things: want to drop tracking the thread, and lower the credibility of that person in my mind to zero. So let's take it back to cordial and constructive -- please?
2) I need the coupons, too. Because of the tax structure in my state, I break out a photo credit from my overall shoot fee to lower the taxes to my customer. In addition, it often "primes the pump" to get more photos. I'd like to set up a coupon equal to the photo credit I give the customer.
That said, I don't have that option right now. I've looked at other sites, like most of you, and nothing presents as well as Smugmug, unless you develop a custom site (I've done web design, and it's just too expensive to keep up a site like that unless you're a fairly large studio). Additionally, I've had wonderful support from the folks at Smugmug, and I really like a family-owned company that's run so well. I just like these guys!
Since I don't have coupons, I must then change my process (sorry for any unintentional jargon - I'm a project manager; common liability
For awhile, I've told my customers, "DON'T order from the site until you talk to me - I can't give you your credit on-line. Order from me for at least your credit." I have to enable printing so my customers can see prices. Warning them usually works, but I've had a few customers order anyway. Fortunately, in those cases, they wanted more later, so I was able to extend the credit. However, things don't always work out that way.
So I try set up a follow-up session to meet them. I'll bring my 17" laptop (which is color-calibrated for best presentation) to their place. I encourage them to bring family, friends, whatever. I use some presentation software, and I walk them through the photos.
As the presentation rolls, and the comments start coming, people get excited, usually more excited than if they were simply looking at them in their office. We pick the photos together. By the time they're done, they've had a fun experience, they've enjoyed ordering the photos, and they're usually well above the photo credit. At that point, most don't mind the additional cost, and we complete the sale. That sale is usually higher than if they simply ordered off the website.
If I had the coupons, I'd use them: there are people who don't want to meet, who are on a tight budget, or who are far away (other states, etc). Coupons would also be critical for my event shoots (airshows, banquets, etc). Nonetheless, in certain situations, maybe there are some other tools that could actually serve us better than ANY website, even Smugmug's. If I have the option to sit with a customer and walk them through, I'll do that first.
www.RichardBerryPhotography.com
While doing this was never my intention you do have a valid point; however, your senereo would be no different than me charging a $20 "image creation fee" up front to a client and setting up a special gallery for them with at-cost pricing. Net profit to SM? Zero... and if I wanted to, I could do this now without coupons. This whole commission issue becomes sticky because SM does not set the prices, photographers do. If I want to give my loyal customers a discount for whatever reason, I should be able to do so without being overcharged IMO.
This whole conversation coud be a waste of time should SM's intentions be different... I sure hope they comment on this subject!
Thanks,
Eric
The difference is the sale price set for the gallery, which is what SM uses to calculate their 15%.
There are already plenty of SM users (wedding togs mostly I would guess) who use SM as an online proof book, handling orders directly, sometimes with print credits already worked in to their deal.
SM sees none of the theoretical profit from those sales (just like your latest situation), but they are also no longer "on the hook" for their satisfaction guarantee - unlike your scenario.
Your scenario is workable for individual clients with private galleries (circumventing coupons by taking money directly and selling prints at cost).
In my case (event shooting) I have some loyal customers I would like to thank with a discount, without letting everyone else in on the deal.
So if I sell a print for $1000 from my SM account they get $150? Good grief, I never realized that.
I thought they just charged a set amount for prints.
Monte
Want faster uploading? Vote for FTP!
So what? Despite current popular misconceptions, profit is a good thing.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
Very true! There is also no "I" in "TEAM", but there is one in "PROFIT".... that's why I want to ensure that "I" get as much of the profit as possible!
Eric
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.