Yes, they would be owner specific and only apply to purchases of your photos.
We only take our percentage on the sale amount after the coupon is applied.
One reason the gallery-specific coupons get difficult is the possibility of buying from multiple galleries and do they expect to use multiple coupons and how do you explain it to them and report it to the pro without everyone squinting.
Ryan Clemens www.clemensphotography.us
Canon 7D w/BG-E7 Vertical Grip, Canon 50D w/ BG-E2N Vertical Grip, Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L USM, Canon 18-55mm, Canon 580EX II Flash and other goodies.
Ignorance is no excuss, so lets DGrin!
No one in there right mind is going to sell anything expensive off SM and have to pay the brokerage fee.
True. But that scenario is probably exceptionally rare. Any image worth $1000 is most likely not going to be purchased online, by someone just happening to stumble upon it. If you're working with a client for a $1000 image, you'd surely present it to them on your own website, or in print in person, and then negotiate the sale over the phone or in person, and fulfill the order yourself.
-Jack
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
I have to admit that yes I'm unhappy (as expressed in an earlier post) that the coupons are taking so long to be implemented. That being said I have to totally agree with a few posts that some are getting down right unprofessional in their posts.
Am I unhappy enough to change my hosting company to another for right now - YES. But, as soon as SM gets this feature up and running then I will return to selling through SM.
I believe that we do need to stop badgering poor Andy and Baldy and allow them to get on with their work and hopefully they'll have our coupons and packages up sooner.
But, until then maybe we need to concentrate on how we will utilize the coupons as to what prices to percentage ration we are all willing to offer our customers so that when coupons become available we all will be ready to implement them.
And just maybe Baldy and Andy would be able to discuss exactly what feature and the how to portion of the implementing coupons when they are able to.
Ryan Clemens www.clemensphotography.us
Canon 7D w/BG-E7 Vertical Grip, Canon 50D w/ BG-E2N Vertical Grip, Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L USM, Canon 18-55mm, Canon 580EX II Flash and other goodies.
Ignorance is no excuss, so lets DGrin!
I believe that we do need to stop badgering poor Andy and Baldy
If I were them I would stop responding to this stupid thread. They have received the message loud and clear. Maybe if they could stop babysitting all the whiners here they could actually get some work done.
-Jack
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
I pulled this from in the beginning of the thread to answer your question about how SM will take their percentage when it comes to coupons.
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Baldy To answer a couple of questions:
Yes, they would be owner specific and only apply to purchases of your photos.
We only take our percentage on the sale amount after the coupon is applied.
One reason the gallery-specific coupons get difficult is the possibility of buying from multiple galleries and do they expect to use multiple coupons and how do you explain it to them and report it to the pro without everyone squinting.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Thanks for finding the info... I guess I didn't dig far enough through this massive thread!
I pulled this from in the beginning of the thread to answer your question about how SM will take their percentage when it comes to coupons.
Originally Posted by Baldy To answer a couple of questions:
Yes, they would be owner specific and only apply to purchases of your photos.
We only take our percentage on the sale amount after the coupon is applied.
One reason the gallery-specific coupons get difficult is the possibility of buying from multiple galleries and do they expect to use multiple coupons and how do you explain it to them and report it to the pro without everyone squinting.
I find that truly interesting,
I wonder if SM fully thought through the potential loss of profit when they made that decision...
I could (when coupons are released) sell prints at cost with little or no profit for SM just by pre-selling fixed dollar amount "coupons" to my customers, and because SM is handling the order they are still "on the hook" for the satisfaction guarantee...
Looking at it another way...
I can sell "coupons" @ 15% off face value (happy customers) and still end up with exactly the same net profit.
EDIT: And the cash in my hand before the photos are ever purchased.
I wonder if SM fully thought through the potential loss of profit when they made that decision...
I could (when coupons are released) sell prints at cost with little or no profit for SM just by pre-selling fixed dollar amount "coupons" to my customers, and because SM is handling the order they are still "on the hook" for the satisfaction guarantee...
Looking at it another way...
I can sell "coupons" @ 15% off face value (happy customers) and still end up with exactly the same net profit.
EDIT: And the cash in my hand before the photos are ever purchased.
No coupons: you sell for $1.00, they get $0.15
Coupon: you sell for $0.85, they get $0.13 Round(($0.85-($0.85*0.85)))
Tim Troy, MI
D700/200, SB800(4), 70-200, 300 2.8 and a few more
Coupon: you sell for $0.85, they get $0.13 Round(($0.85-($0.85*0.85)))
Wrong.
Simple example.
Sell $1.00 coupon for 4x6 lustre print @ $0.90 (10% discount for buying coupon)
Customer "buys" $1 4x6 print using coupon.
Cost to customer $0.90 + shipping ($0.10 savings vs. today)
Moving to the SM side of things...
According to the statement clemensphoto's quoted from Baldy himself, SM will apply the coupon first, before calculating the 15% profit split.
So... Customer buy $1 worth of pictures, using $1 coupon. Net sale $0.
At this point SM would normally deduct the cost of the print ($0.21) from the sale and then calculate the profit split on the remainder, which happens to be -$0.21 in this example.
The "profit" split is $0 to SM and $-0.21 (cost of the print) to the site owner (I'm assuming SM will not pick up 15% of the loss) and the site owner is billed for the -$0.21 shortage the coupon created.
Pulling it all together, the site owner would make a net profit of $0.90 (coupon sold to customer) - $0.21 (print charge from SM)
Net profit to site owner $0.69
Net profit to SM $0.00
$0.79 * 15% SM profit = $0.118 (round up to $0.12).
Net profit to site owner $0.67
Net profit to SM $0.12
FWIW - I was wrong, you can't offer a 15% discount off face value, only about 10% since SM calculates profit after print costs are deducted.
But I am completely correct that SM will lose all their profit from the sale (in this example, and any like it) based on the way they intend to handle coupons.
Sell $1.00 coupon for 4x6 lustre print @ $0.90 (10% discount for buying coupon)
Customer "buys" $1 4x6 print using coupon.
Cost to customer $0.90 + shipping ($0.10 savings vs. today)
Moving to the SM side of things...
According to the statement clemensphoto's quoted from Baldy himself, SM will apply the coupon first, before calculating the 15% profit split.
So... Customer buy $1 worth of pictures, using $1 coupon. Net sale $0.
At this point SM would normally deduct the cost of the print ($0.21) from the sale and then calculate the profit split on the remainder, which happens to be -$0.21 in this example.
The "profit" split is $0 to SM and $-0.21 (cost of the print) to the site owner (I'm assuming SM will not pick up 15% of the loss) and the site owner is billed for the -$0.21 shortage the coupon created.
Pulling it all together, the site owner would make a net profit of $0.90 (coupon sold to customer) - $0.21 (print charge from SM)
Net profit to site owner $0.69
Net profit to SM $0.00
$0.79 * 15% SM profit = $0.118 (round up to $0.12).
Net profit to site owner $0.67
Net profit to SM $0.12
FWIW - I was wrong, you can't offer a 15% discount off face value, only about 10% since SM calculates profit after print costs are deducted.
But I am completely correct that SM will lose all their profit from the sale (in this example, and any like it) based on the way they intend to handle coupons.
Thanks for the example. Our guiding principle is that 97% of people will be fair. Yes, the Blair Witch filmmakers shot the film on camcorders that they returned to Circuit City after shooting the film, but they're the 3%. We hate to make the system harder for the honest.
If we've missed something and opened a gaping hole, we'll have to rev it. But currently we're planning to go live the way it is.
I've seen on a few other sites that offer coupons that if a photographer offer a coupon and they are in the negative balance then it is deducted from your credit card on file. Example would be if a photog charged $0.25 for a 4x6 if would end up as this:
$0.25 sales price - 20% coupon = $0.20 after coupons deducted
$0.20 - $0.21 - 15% on the $0.20 deducted sale price = -$0.21 (that would be charged to the photog account)
So, with looking at this, what would honest photogs offer for coupons (i.e. 10% of sales of $50.00 to $99.99)? This is always the worst part of the business for me - knowing what to charge.
.
Ryan Clemens www.clemensphotography.us
Canon 7D w/BG-E7 Vertical Grip, Canon 50D w/ BG-E2N Vertical Grip, Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L USM, Canon 18-55mm, Canon 580EX II Flash and other goodies.
Ignorance is no excuss, so lets DGrin!
I understand your example, but I would be curious how often that will apply. The example you presented does not relate to coupons. It is vouchers. Coupons are not sold. Coupons are given.
If you collect money for the exchange of a coupon, it is really a voucher.
Can Smugmug coupons be used as vouchers in a roundabout way to circumvent paying paying a % to SM? I suppose, but I doubt that will be the primary use for most shooters.
Besides, as soon as you collect money in exchange for vouchers aren't you on the hook for collecting local, state and federal taxes?
I think the majority of coupons will be x% off an order. It is no different than simply lowering the prices in your gallery, but it makes more sense and provides better incentive to a customer. It also allows better control for the photographer. SM still gets their %. In that regard, everyone will win.
Sell $1.00 coupon for 4x6 lustre print @ $0.90 (10% discount for buying coupon)
Customer "buys" $1 4x6 print using coupon.
Cost to customer $0.90 + shipping ($0.10 savings vs. today)
Moving to the SM side of things...
According to the statement clemensphoto's quoted from Baldy himself, SM will apply the coupon first, before calculating the 15% profit split.
So... Customer buy $1 worth of pictures, using $1 coupon. Net sale $0.
At this point SM would normally deduct the cost of the print ($0.21) from the sale and then calculate the profit split on the remainder, which happens to be -$0.21 in this example.
The "profit" split is $0 to SM and $-0.21 (cost of the print) to the site owner (I'm assuming SM will not pick up 15% of the loss) and the site owner is billed for the -$0.21 shortage the coupon created.
Pulling it all together, the site owner would make a net profit of $0.90 (coupon sold to customer) - $0.21 (print charge from SM)
Net profit to site owner $0.69
Net profit to SM $0.00
$0.79 * 15% SM profit = $0.118 (round up to $0.12).
Net profit to site owner $0.67
Net profit to SM $0.12
FWIW - I was wrong, you can't offer a 15% discount off face value, only about 10% since SM calculates profit after print costs are deducted.
But I am completely correct that SM will lose all their profit from the sale (in this example, and any like it) based on the way they intend to handle coupons.
I understand your example, but I would be curious how often that will apply. The example you presented does not relate to coupons. It is vouchers. Coupons are not sold. Coupons are given.
If you collect money for the exchange of a coupon, it is really a voucher.
Can Smugmug coupons be used as vouchers in a roundabout way to circumvent paying paying a % to SM? I suppose, but I doubt that will be the primary use for most shooters.
Besides, as soon as you collect money in exchange for vouchers aren't you on the hook for collecting local, state and federal taxes?
I think the majority of coupons will be x% off an order. It is no different than simply lowering the prices in your gallery, but it makes more sense and provides better incentive to a customer. It also allows better control for the photographer. SM still gets their %. In that regard, everyone will win.
My understanding is that coupons can be set up as vouchers.
One of the examples posted (by Baldy or BWG) was a fixed dollar amount of any purchase (generally combined with a minimum purchase, but minimum could be set to $0).
I agree the example is a bit out there, but its certainly possible. Scale the dollars up to $20 or $50 and it starts to look interesting.
Good point about the taxes, but most states technically require that you do that even now.
As for primary use, I can easily see this being an attractive option for wedding and portrait photographers. Get the money locally, issue a coupon/voucher for the agreed upon value and let SM handle the printing.
For myself, I'm looking forward to the fixed dollar off a purchase. Make the $$ off $2.95 and advertise it as "free standard shipping" - everyone likes free.
Thanks for the example. Our guiding principle is that 97% of people will be fair. Yes, the Blair Witch filmmakers shot the film on camcorders that they returned to Circuit City after shooting the film, but they're the 3%. We hate to make the system harder for the honest.
If we've missed something and opened a gaping hole, we'll have to rev it. But currently we're planning to go live the way it is.
I appreciate the mindset, and you are quite probably correct.
I'm an engineer (electronics hardware) by day, so worst case analysis is always percolating in the background of my brain - it can't be shut off...
As I said in the previous message, my guess would be its the wedding and portrait guys (and girls) that could most easily benefit from this loophole since including prints as part of their overall service is quite natural.
Either way, "hearing" you utter the words "we're planning to go live" (taken out of context purposely) is promising.
It was simple only in that $1 was used to keep the math simple.
i understand that, but selling the coupon is what threw me...like someone else stated (and you've touched on since) you're treating it like a voucher which threw me for a loop...was it mentioned previously, maybe, but i guess i thought of coupons as that - coupons...
oh well, i guess we'll have to wait to see how they handle coupons (vouchers) as far as charges are concerned...
i understand that, but selling the coupon is what threw me...like someone else stated (and you've touched on since) you're treating it like a voucher which threw me for a loop...was it mentioned previously, maybe, but i guess i thought of coupons as that - coupons...
oh well, i guess we'll have to wait to see how they handle coupons (vouchers) as far as charges are concerned...
i know it's probably splitting hairs and all, but hey, that's what we're doing here!
when i look at that image it says "since you hired me, you get $50 in prints." to me, that's a coupon - you get $50 off your order (no minimum purchase)...how is that different than the first one that says $10 off order of $100 - other than the minimum purchase? the last one doesn't say the coupon was "sold" to the client...it was given away towards the purchase of photos...i dunno, again probably splitting hairs...
Now this is the direction this thread should be going...finding problems and solving them before we all have issues in the future.
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't vouchers something that has already been prepaid and coupons are just an amount that is given under specific conditions (i.e. x% for x amount or x $ to any orders over x amount)?
Ryan Clemens www.clemensphotography.us
Canon 7D w/BG-E7 Vertical Grip, Canon 50D w/ BG-E2N Vertical Grip, Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L USM, Canon 18-55mm, Canon 580EX II Flash and other goodies.
Ignorance is no excuss, so lets DGrin!
I look at coupons as something that gives you a discount off of some qualified purchase. I see vouchers differently, like a gift card. They are usually considered pre-paid, which are not the way coupons are handled. And in fact some sites, like Exposure Manager, have coupons and vouchers both and are completely separate mechanisms.
Now this is the direction this thread should be going...finding problems and solving them before we all have issues in the future.
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't vouchers something that has already been prepaid and coupons are just an amount that is given under specific conditions (i.e. x% for x amount or x $ to any orders over x amount)?
That is pretty much exactly how Exposure Manager has handled the difference between coupons and vouchers for at least the past 4 years...
COUPONS.....you get out of Sunday newspaper to make grocery shopping easier on your wallet.......
Person in front of you in grocery check out pays with FOOD STAMPS..:Dwink:D...those are vouchers..................and at one time actually said USDA FOOD VOUCHER .................
i know it's probably splitting hairs and all, but hey, that's what we're doing here!
when i look at that image it says "since you hired me, you get $50 in prints." to me, that's a coupon - you get $50 off your order (no minimum purchase)...how is that different than the first one that says $10 off order of $100 - other than the minimum purchase? the last one doesn't say the coupon was "sold" to the client...it was given away towards the purchase of photos...i dunno, again probably splitting hairs...
The coupon was "given away", as you said, but its the "why" that is important... and that is "since you hired me".
That (to me at least) indicates that the person getting the coupon/voucher has already paid (hired) the SM user issuing the coupon, and the $50 print credit was figured in to the overall cost of the work.
I don't see how its such a huge logical jump from there to simply selling "coupons" which are discounted vouchers. For example, you could sell them at an event as a 10% off promotion if you pre-buy before the event ends (so a $20 voucher would sell for $18 cash at the event).
Here are my two cents on Vouchers vs Coupons which comes from my retail experience.
A voucher is a specific amount and item(s) for which it can be used for and has a cash value. It also normally has less time restrictions.
A coupon is a discount/rebate which has no cash value. Coupons can be very general or they can be very specific. Generally has a very limited time that it is usable.
The major difference is one a voucher has a cash value but does not alter the items price and the other a coupon does not have a cash value but does alter the items price.
This becomes very important if customers want to return items for any reason. Coupons alter the value of a item. Returns that use a coupon get refunded for the price that the coupon made them, customers do not get the coupon back. Vouchers on the other hand do not change the value of the item and the customers gets the voucher/credit back.
On a side note I hope that the coupons and or vouchers are capable of being product specific. If not in version one hopefully in version two.
We only take our percentage on the sale amount after the coupon is applied.
This is unbelievably fair. SM realizes we are partners. Even if there is a workaround to SM's profit, I won't jeopardize my working relationship with my business partner. Coupons or vouchers, lol.
The coupon was "given away", as you said, but its the "why" that is important... and that is "since you hired me".
That (to me at least) indicates that the person getting the coupon/voucher has already paid (hired) the SM user issuing the coupon, and the $50 print credit was figured in to the overall cost of the work.
I don't see how its such a huge logical jump from there to simply selling "coupons" which are discounted vouchers. For example, you could sell them at an event as a 10% off promotion if you pre-buy before the event ends (so a $20 voucher would sell for $18 cash at the event).
A 10 off coupon (what we call an amount coupon) is a fixed amount off a single order. It may or may not have usage and/or minimum purchase requirements. % off coupons work the same way.
A credit coupon is like a gift card you would get from a retail store. Its valid for unlimited uses until the amount is used up or it expires. The usage and minimum purchase requirements are disabled for credit coupons.
Well-said. Smugmug <i>is</i> my business partner, technical hair-splitting aside. Additionally, even using the $1,000 example earlier. I have no problem with that. They handle the credit card, the PCI security needs, the order fulfillment (if I want them to), and --in my case -- sales tax - I'm OK with that. I'm here to create images to please my customer.
Yes, I'm here to run a business, but every moment behind the shutter generates revenue. If I can generate more revenue behind the camera than it costs me to use Smugmug's service, I'm dollars ahead. There can be a false economy to the do-it-yourself mentality. It doesn't scale well.
I could also save much of the $150/year by doing my own website (I've built them professionally for years), but again, a false economy. I can do it, but it's not my passion -- photography is. I want to do what I'm meant to do, not get bogged down by the urgent-but-less-important.
15% is also cheaper than payroll or independent contractors for the same purpose. Additionally, the lowest price is not always the best deal. The best deal is the best price/performance ratio within your budget. Smugmug meets that for me.
I <i>do</i> want coupons, as I'm sure Andy knows (probably has nightmares about it in his sleep!<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/eek7.gif" border="0" alt="" >). However, my customers love the site, send their friends to it, and I also get comments on Facebook about it.
I guess I'll continue being a Smugee for the foreseeable future.
Wishful thinking
Okay, I know this is a pessimistic response, but I see the original posting of June(?) 2008 talking about how the bigwebguy is ready to handle the coupons and discounts. More than a year later we're still having discussions about what a coupon is vs. a discount. I'm assuming smugmug really isn't intent on providing these features any time soon?
Comments
There should be a limit. No one in there right mind is going to sell anything expensive off SM and have to pay the brokerage fee.
Monte
I pulled this from in the beginning of the thread to answer your question about how SM will take their percentage when it comes to coupons.
www.clemensphotography.us
Canon 7D w/BG-E7 Vertical Grip, Canon 50D w/ BG-E2N Vertical Grip, Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L USM, Canon 18-55mm, Canon 580EX II Flash and other goodies.
Ignorance is no excuss, so lets DGrin!
True. But that scenario is probably exceptionally rare. Any image worth $1000 is most likely not going to be purchased online, by someone just happening to stumble upon it. If you're working with a client for a $1000 image, you'd surely present it to them on your own website, or in print in person, and then negotiate the sale over the phone or in person, and fulfill the order yourself.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Am I unhappy enough to change my hosting company to another for right now - YES. But, as soon as SM gets this feature up and running then I will return to selling through SM.
I believe that we do need to stop badgering poor Andy and Baldy and allow them to get on with their work and hopefully they'll have our coupons and packages up sooner.
But, until then maybe we need to concentrate on how we will utilize the coupons as to what prices to percentage ration we are all willing to offer our customers so that when coupons become available we all will be ready to implement them.
And just maybe Baldy and Andy would be able to discuss exactly what feature and the how to portion of the implementing coupons when they are able to.
www.clemensphotography.us
Canon 7D w/BG-E7 Vertical Grip, Canon 50D w/ BG-E2N Vertical Grip, Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L USM, Canon 18-55mm, Canon 580EX II Flash and other goodies.
Ignorance is no excuss, so lets DGrin!
If I were them I would stop responding to this stupid thread. They have received the message loud and clear. Maybe if they could stop babysitting all the whiners here they could actually get some work done.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Eric
Ahh... thank you
I wonder if SM fully thought through the potential loss of profit when they made that decision...
I could (when coupons are released) sell prints at cost with little or no profit for SM just by pre-selling fixed dollar amount "coupons" to my customers, and because SM is handling the order they are still "on the hook" for the satisfaction guarantee...
Looking at it another way...
I can sell "coupons" @ 15% off face value (happy customers) and still end up with exactly the same net profit.
EDIT: And the cash in my hand before the photos are ever purchased.
No coupons: you sell for $1.00, they get $0.15
Coupon: you sell for $0.85, they get $0.13 Round(($0.85-($0.85*0.85)))
Troy, MI
D700/200, SB800(4), 70-200, 300 2.8 and a few more
www.sportsshooter.com/tjk60
Simple example.
Sell $1.00 coupon for 4x6 lustre print @ $0.90 (10% discount for buying coupon)
Customer "buys" $1 4x6 print using coupon.
Cost to customer $0.90 + shipping ($0.10 savings vs. today)
Moving to the SM side of things...
According to the statement clemensphoto's quoted from Baldy himself, SM will apply the coupon first, before calculating the 15% profit split.
So... Customer buy $1 worth of pictures, using $1 coupon. Net sale $0.
At this point SM would normally deduct the cost of the print ($0.21) from the sale and then calculate the profit split on the remainder, which happens to be -$0.21 in this example.
The "profit" split is $0 to SM and $-0.21 (cost of the print) to the site owner (I'm assuming SM will not pick up 15% of the loss) and the site owner is billed for the -$0.21 shortage the coupon created.
Pulling it all together, the site owner would make a net profit of $0.90 (coupon sold to customer) - $0.21 (print charge from SM)
Net profit to site owner $0.69
Net profit to SM $0.00
Without the coupon (now) the net profit would be:
$1.00 (print sell price) - $0.21 (print cost) = $0.79 gross profit
$0.79 * 15% SM profit = $0.118 (round up to $0.12).
Net profit to site owner $0.67
Net profit to SM $0.12
FWIW - I was wrong, you can't offer a 15% discount off face value, only about 10% since SM calculates profit after print costs are deducted.
But I am completely correct that SM will lose all their profit from the sale (in this example, and any like it) based on the way they intend to handle coupons.
If we've missed something and opened a gaping hole, we'll have to rev it. But currently we're planning to go live the way it is.
I've seen on a few other sites that offer coupons that if a photographer offer a coupon and they are in the negative balance then it is deducted from your credit card on file. Example would be if a photog charged $0.25 for a 4x6 if would end up as this:
$0.25 sales price - 20% coupon = $0.20 after coupons deducted
$0.20 - $0.21 - 15% on the $0.20 deducted sale price = -$0.21 (that would be charged to the photog account)
So, with looking at this, what would honest photogs offer for coupons (i.e. 10% of sales of $50.00 to $99.99)? This is always the worst part of the business for me - knowing what to charge.
.
www.clemensphotography.us
Canon 7D w/BG-E7 Vertical Grip, Canon 50D w/ BG-E2N Vertical Grip, Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L USM, Canon 18-55mm, Canon 580EX II Flash and other goodies.
Ignorance is no excuss, so lets DGrin!
If you collect money for the exchange of a coupon, it is really a voucher.
Can Smugmug coupons be used as vouchers in a roundabout way to circumvent paying paying a % to SM? I suppose, but I doubt that will be the primary use for most shooters.
Besides, as soon as you collect money in exchange for vouchers aren't you on the hook for collecting local, state and federal taxes?
I think the majority of coupons will be x% off an order. It is no different than simply lowering the prices in your gallery, but it makes more sense and provides better incentive to a customer. It also allows better control for the photographer. SM still gets their %. In that regard, everyone will win.
It was simple only in that $1 was used to keep the math simple.
My understanding is that coupons can be set up as vouchers.
One of the examples posted (by Baldy or BWG) was a fixed dollar amount of any purchase (generally combined with a minimum purchase, but minimum could be set to $0).
I agree the example is a bit out there, but its certainly possible. Scale the dollars up to $20 or $50 and it starts to look interesting.
Good point about the taxes, but most states technically require that you do that even now.
As for primary use, I can easily see this being an attractive option for wedding and portrait photographers. Get the money locally, issue a coupon/voucher for the agreed upon value and let SM handle the printing.
For myself, I'm looking forward to the fixed dollar off a purchase. Make the $$ off $2.95 and advertise it as "free standard shipping" - everyone likes free.
I appreciate the mindset, and you are quite probably correct.
I'm an engineer (electronics hardware) by day, so worst case analysis is always percolating in the background of my brain - it can't be shut off...
As I said in the previous message, my guess would be its the wedding and portrait guys (and girls) that could most easily benefit from this loophole since including prints as part of their overall service is quite natural.
Either way, "hearing" you utter the words "we're planning to go live" (taken out of context purposely) is promising.
oh well, i guess we'll have to wait to see how they handle coupons (vouchers) as far as charges are concerned...
See the second image Andy posted here.
At the very bottom is a code labeled "ItsaCredit", a $50 print credit "coupon", call it a voucher if that makes more sense.
when i look at that image it says "since you hired me, you get $50 in prints." to me, that's a coupon - you get $50 off your order (no minimum purchase)...how is that different than the first one that says $10 off order of $100 - other than the minimum purchase? the last one doesn't say the coupon was "sold" to the client...it was given away towards the purchase of photos...i dunno, again probably splitting hairs...
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't vouchers something that has already been prepaid and coupons are just an amount that is given under specific conditions (i.e. x% for x amount or x $ to any orders over x amount)?
www.clemensphotography.us
Canon 7D w/BG-E7 Vertical Grip, Canon 50D w/ BG-E2N Vertical Grip, Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L USM, Canon 18-55mm, Canon 580EX II Flash and other goodies.
Ignorance is no excuss, so lets DGrin!
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
Think of it like this.....
COUPONS.....you get out of Sunday newspaper to make grocery shopping easier on your wallet.......
Person in front of you in grocery check out pays with FOOD STAMPS..:D
The coupon was "given away", as you said, but its the "why" that is important... and that is "since you hired me".
That (to me at least) indicates that the person getting the coupon/voucher has already paid (hired) the SM user issuing the coupon, and the $50 print credit was figured in to the overall cost of the work.
I don't see how its such a huge logical jump from there to simply selling "coupons" which are discounted vouchers. For example, you could sell them at an event as a 10% off promotion if you pre-buy before the event ends (so a $20 voucher would sell for $18 cash at the event).
A voucher is a specific amount and item(s) for which it can be used for and has a cash value. It also normally has less time restrictions.
A coupon is a discount/rebate which has no cash value. Coupons can be very general or they can be very specific. Generally has a very limited time that it is usable.
The major difference is one a voucher has a cash value but does not alter the items price and the other a coupon does not have a cash value but does alter the items price.
This becomes very important if customers want to return items for any reason. Coupons alter the value of a item. Returns that use a coupon get refunded for the price that the coupon made them, customers do not get the coupon back. Vouchers on the other hand do not change the value of the item and the customers gets the voucher/credit back.
On a side note I hope that the coupons and or vouchers are capable of being product specific. If not in version one hopefully in version two.
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A credit coupon is like a gift card you would get from a retail store. Its valid for unlimited uses until the amount is used up or it expires. The usage and minimum purchase requirements are disabled for credit coupons.
Well-said. Smugmug <i>is</i> my business partner, technical hair-splitting aside. Additionally, even using the $1,000 example earlier. I have no problem with that. They handle the credit card, the PCI security needs, the order fulfillment (if I want them to), and --in my case -- sales tax - I'm OK with that. I'm here to create images to please my customer.
Yes, I'm here to run a business, but every moment behind the shutter generates revenue. If I can generate more revenue behind the camera than it costs me to use Smugmug's service, I'm dollars ahead. There can be a false economy to the do-it-yourself mentality. It doesn't scale well.
I could also save much of the $150/year by doing my own website (I've built them professionally for years), but again, a false economy. I can do it, but it's not my passion -- photography is. I want to do what I'm meant to do, not get bogged down by the urgent-but-less-important.
15% is also cheaper than payroll or independent contractors for the same purpose. Additionally, the lowest price is not always the best deal. The best deal is the best price/performance ratio within your budget. Smugmug meets that for me.
I <i>do</i> want coupons, as I'm sure Andy knows (probably has nightmares about it in his sleep!<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/eek7.gif" border="0" alt="" >). However, my customers love the site, send their friends to it, and I also get comments on Facebook about it.
I guess I'll continue being a Smugee for the foreseeable future.
-Richard
www.RichardBerryPhotography.com
Okay, I know this is a pessimistic response, but I see the original posting of June(?) 2008 talking about how the bigwebguy is ready to handle the coupons and discounts. More than a year later we're still having discussions about what a coupon is vs. a discount. I'm assuming smugmug really isn't intent on providing these features any time soon?